quote Originally posted by Vonov: What other factors led them to search your vehicle, or did they say?

Didn't really say, he just said I was acting nervous, and the way I glanced at him when I drove past was suspicious.

For them to get a search warrant based on that, either the judge is an id-jit, or there was something more going on than you were made aware of. If you have enemies, maybe someone dropped a dime on you, told the local fuzz you were holding, and which way you'd be going that night.

quote Originally posted by D B Cooper: I also think their image would be a little better if cops were seen helping people change tires by the side of the road occasionally. In the half million miles I've driven in my time I don't think I've ever seen that.

Not sure about other areas, but here it's against policy for Police to do that. The reason is it takes business away from towing companies, etc. Same reason a cop won't let you in your car when you lock the keys in it - that takes business away from a locksmith.

If you're stranded on the side of the road, the officer is supposed to make sure you're ok and call for whatever kind of assistance you need.

Vonov, Thanks for being one of the good guys.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Not sure about other areas, but here it's against policy for Police to do that. The reason is it takes business away from towing companies, etc. Same reason a cop won't let you in your car when you lock the keys in it - that takes business away from a locksmith. If you're stranded on the side of the road, the officer is supposed to make sure you're ok and call for whatever kind of assistance you need.

For a while, the department I used to support would "slim jim" peoples' locks if they locked their keys in the car.
Sometime in the early 90s they made the officers stop doing it. Apparently someboy's weather stripping got cut, or their window got scratched, or some damn thing, and the person raised hell with the department.
Let no good deed go unpunished.

Georgia, at least around Atlanta, has DOT trucks called "HERO" units (Highway Emergency Response Operator) that roam the interstates and assist motorists who have broken down. They help to change tires, supply enough gas to get to a station, provide emergency lighting and "interference" for what could otherwise be a very dangerous situation, etc.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: If your stop played out exactly like you say, you should contact the ACLU and sue.

Ive been down that road and got half of our local law enforcment fired. But only after 2 years of fighting and neadless to say during those 2 years i was harrased everyday and it got to the point that i was scared to leave my own house. I even had suposed good cops tell me off the record that i was gettin screwed by them and that they knew this and that but they wouldnt testify. In my own opinion the only good cop is one that will testify against another cop which isnt gonna happen. I even had a cop who filled out 5 different affidavits and all contradicted the previous one but the judge said a cop cant remember everything lol lets see if that would hold up for civillians. When my lawyer asked the judge so a cops job is to lie cheat and steal the judge actually said yes. Like my lawyer told me the biggest organized crime ring is law enforcment. I would recomend anyone to get a copy of HOW TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM A BAD COP written by Dee Wampler (my lawyer) its a real eye opener. Nothing scares a cop more that when somebody is educated on what they can and cant do and they start spewing law # out. Unfortunatly until enough people get educated on the law this kind of thing will never end which wont happen till it happens to more people. cops are pigs pure and simple.

It could have been worse, he could have planted something in my car and then I would have been extremely PO'd. My worse fear is being framed by a bad cop.

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: It could have been worse, he could have planted something in my car and then I would have been extremely PO'd. My worse fear is being framed by a bad cop.

Thats actually what happened to me. Now i have a 2 grand surveilance system in every car i own that records all angles inside the car and out front and back (7 cameras total) on a 24 hour record. I can tell u cops get nervous when they come up to the window and see themselves on my 4 in lcd. Sad thats what ya gotta do to protect yourself from somebody who is supose to protect and serve lol what a joke. But again it aint just cops its the entire judical system.

in my 38 years of driving i've driven past probably thousands of cops with no problems. ive been helped by the roadside and given directions. i've gotten maybe half a dozen tickets in that time, most of them justified. i've seen them pull injured kids out of wrecks and stand in the middle of 4 lanes of traffic when the stoplight dies.

ive also gone to jail twice for non-moving violations because the officer was having a bad day, and i didn't help. ive broken the law plenty of times, some of them more serious than a traffic violation. yes, there are a few bad cops out there, but in my experience they're very, very few. the vast majority are hardworking family men who just want to go home after a hard day dealing with unpleasant people and situations, and i can excuse the occasional bad day. when someone tries to break into my house or steal my car, you bet i'm calling 911.

[This message has been edited by lurker (edited 06-12-2007).]

quote Originally posted by delta1: Ive been down that road and got half of our local law enforcment fired. But only after 2 years of fighting and neadless to say during those 2 years i was harrased everyday and it got to the point that i was scared to leave my own house. I even had suposed good cops tell me off the record that i was gettin screwed by them and that they knew this and that but they wouldnt testify. In my own opinion the only good cop is one that will testify against another cop which isnt gonna happen. I even had a cop who filled out 5 different affidavits and all contradicted the previous one but the judge said a cop cant remember everything lol lets see if that would hold up for civillians. When my lawyer asked the judge so a cops job is to lie cheat and steal the judge actually said yes. Like my lawyer told me the biggest organized crime ring is law enforcment. I would recomend anyone to get a copy of HOW TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM A BAD COP written by Dee Wampler (my lawyer) its a real eye opener. Nothing scares a cop more that when somebody is educated on what they can and cant do and they start spewing law # out. Unfortunatly until enough people get educated on the law this kind of thing will never end which wont happen till it happens to more people. cops are pigs pure and simple.

You may or may not believe this, I really don't care, but the times ARE changing. There is SO much surveillance technology out there, just assume you are under surveillance (think Rodney King) at any time, any place within the confines of any town or city. If you think a cop is harassing you, carry a hidden digital recorder. It's pretty hard for a cop to say he wasn't rude when you can confront him with his own voice in court. It's also good insurance against an unfounded disorderly conduct charge, and if he REALLY gets stupid, a good recording could be worth lots...
----signed, Just a Pure and Simple Pig helping clean up the sty...

Oh, and thanks, Raydar. Glad to be appreciated.

[This message has been edited by Vonov (edited 06-12-2007).]

quote Originally posted by delta1: Nothing scares a cop more that when somebody is educated on what they can and cant do and they start spewing law # out. Unfortunatly until enough people get educated on the law this kind of thing will never end which wont happen till it happens to more people. cops are pigs pure and simple.

Yup... Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for lunch and a republic is one well armed sheep constesting the vote.

Education is the weapon that will mess the wolves day up every time. Wolves are stupid preprogrammed robots who ALWAYS mess something up.

quote Originally posted by delta1: I would recomend anyone to get a copy of HOW TO DEFEND YOURSELF FROM A BAD COP written by Dee Wampler (my lawyer) its a real eye opener.

I looked on his website and see the book. Defending yourself against cops in Missouri and other strange places. Is this the book your talking about? I see its published in 1993 though, so I wonder how current it is?

http://www.entrapped.com/

[This message has been edited by Gecko (edited 06-12-2007).]

If you want some really good ammo to fight with... google lawyerdude.

again the only good cop is one that will testify against another cop. Are u saying u will? id really really doubt it. If its getting better why (acording to fed stats) are 25% of cops corrupt and 25% of inmates inocent of what their there for? But its not just cops it goes all the way to the judges and prob beyond that but thats another thread lol. Why as a citizen did i feel the need to spend 8g (to outfit 4 cars w full cams and lcd)to protect myself from u? I have never broken the law except moving violations which yeah when you have cought me im all oh sorry sir im a dumbass and just pay whatever fine i get NO PROB. Most poeple dont want to see it i know i didnt. In my own local town everyone knew the cops were corrupt but nobody did anything. Till the 2 new guys who didnt know who i am tried their thing on me when they hauled me in the jailer actually asked them "are u sure u want to do this". oh yeah good ol rodney king if memory serves me corect i believe the cops got off scott free hence the watts riots. what did cameras do their exactly? was justice served? I think its time to take the blinders off.
If u would testify then i got a lot of respect for ya but u dont realize how many wont no matter what


Yeah thats it but i fig he woulda had a revised as i get binder every year of anything that changed arent retainers nice lol If anyone needs a great lawyer and law team (i had 5 lawyers on my team) they come highly recomended especiall in MO but they sometimes take cases outside. But be forewarned they are the highest end in MO and dont come cheap. Only thing i think sucks is pain 30-35% of Dee's new Porsche and not gettin to drive it. And yes i asked several times lol oh well maybe when fiero is done i can get him to swap cars w me for a short drive lol

[This message has been edited by delta1 (edited 06-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by delta1: again the only good cop is one that will testify against another cop. Are u saying u will? id really really doubt it. If its getting better why (acording to fed stats) are 25% of cops corrupt and 25% of inmates inocent of what their there for? But its not just cops it goes all the way to the judges and prob beyond that but thats another thread lol. Why as a citizen did i feel the need to spend 8g (to outfit 4 cars w full cams and lcd)to protect myself from u? I have never broken the law except moving violations which yeah when you have cought me im all oh sorry sir im a dumbass and just pay whatever fine i get NO PROB. Most poeple dont want to see it i know i didnt. In my own local town everyone knew the cops were corrupt but nobody did anything. Till the 2 new guys who didnt know who i am tried their thing on me when they hauled me in the jailer actually asked them "are u sure u want to do this". oh yeah good ol rodney king if memory serves me corect i believe the cops got off scott free hence the watts riots. what did cameras do their exactly? was justice served? I think its time to take the blinders off. If u would testify then i got a lot of respect for ya but u dont realize how many wont no matter what Yeah thats it but i fig he woulda had a revised as i get binder every year of anything that changed arent retainers nice lol If anyone needs a great lawyer and law team (i had 5 lawyers on my team) they come highly recomended especiall in MO but they sometimes take cases outside. But be forewarned they are the highest end in MO and dont come cheap. Only thing i think sucks is pain 30-35% of Dee's new Porsche and not gettin to drive it. And yes i asked several times lol oh well maybe when fiero is done i can get him to swap cars w me for a short drive lol

this is what happens with any system left in place to long.

but, the reason it is getting better is, like Vonov said - surveilance. the cop car camara. it is not only for them, but for you also. make sure, when you are dealing with police - to stay in its view. unless of course - you have a Plan B
and, like someone else mentioned - your OWN survelience. a voice recorder is gold. hold it in front of you and ask: why am I pulled over? everything that happens from there on out, must be within reason to the answer to that question. and, an answer MUST be provided - otherwise, you can just get back in your car and leave.
but, of course...theres always, he shuts his stuff off, pulls out a gun he got in yesterdays drug bust, and kills you on the spot. the joys of the unknown.

quote Originally posted by Vonov: You may or may not believe this, I really don't care, but the times ARE changing. There is SO much surveillance technology out there, just assume you are under surveillance (think Rodney King) at any time, any place within the confines of any town or city. If you think a cop is harassing you, carry a hidden digital recorder. It's pretty hard for a cop to say he wasn't rude when you can confront him with his own voice in court. It's also good insurance against an unfounded disorderly conduct charge, and if he REALLY gets stupid, a good recording could be worth lots... ----signed, Just a Pure and Simple Pig helping clean up the sty... Oh, and thanks, Raydar. Glad to be appreciated.

This would not be a good idea. Cops have now started charging individuals who try to videotape their actions with "wiretapping" as this latest story shows. Get caught recording an officer with a hidden camcorder, and your facing 7 years in jail. I can remember back in the day when people in our community used to actually look forward to greeting our police officers around town, but with the new breed of badge wearing thugs, people would walk across the street just to avoid them. In fact, many people would be just as scared to encounter one of the officers on an evening stroll as a convicted mugger. The only difference between the two is you know the cop will come up with same way to take your money off you in one way or another, regardless of whether you are doing something wrong or not.

The creed of the modern police force should be changed "to fine and prosecute" rather than "to protect and serve".

Link acts goofy - you have to scroll down to read the story:

http://blog.pennlive.com/pa...lly_didnt_think.html

[This message has been edited by loafer87gt (edited 06-13-2007).]

I'm no lawyer, but for wiretapping doesn't there have to be a wire to tap? When video taping you are not tapping any wires.

In Indiana anyway you are allowed to record someone as long as at least one person being recorded has knowledge of the recording. That one person can include yourself.

[This message has been edited by fieroluv (edited 06-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: I'm no lawyer, but for wiretapping doesn't there have to be a wire to tap? When video taping you are not tapping any wires. In Indiana anyway you are allowed to record someone as long as at least one person has knowledge of the recording. That one person can include yourself.

wiretapping/eavedropping/spying - whatever you want to call it.
and, on your statement - I think you need to add: at least one person BEING RECORDED has knowledge of the recording.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: wiretapping/eavedropping/spying - whatever you want to call it. and, on your statement - I think you need to add: at least one person BEING RECORDED has knowledge of the recording.

I edited my post to reflect that. Thanks I was having a little trouble finding the words. But yes you are correct one person being recorded needs to have knowledge of the recording.

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: I edited my post to reflect that. Thanks I was having a little trouble finding the words. But yes you are correct one person being recorded needs to have knowledge of the recording.

And that person can be the person doing the recording (unless, of course, he's recording a conversation which he is not a party to, which WOULD be a violation of federal WIMEA statutes).
If you are in a public place where you have a legal right to be, recording in ANY fashion, an event which is taking place in public view, there's not a damned thing the local law can do to you (under very limited circumstances, when national security is at stake, the federal rules may be somewhat different; those guys have a Catch-22 for EVERYTHING). If you want to be protected, however, you can go to the media with what you have, and tell them you want to be protected as a confidential source. Or better yet, hire an attorney.
Which means the maximum effective range of any action the police take against you as a result would be zero meters, i.e., it isn't going anywhere, and could be construed, especially by a federal court, as malicious prosecution. Check out your state's laws on official oppression, or retaliation under color of law. You'll be amazed at how limited police powers actually are legally, and how much trouble a cop can get into for abusing his powers.
The majority of persons posting are correct in that education pertaining to your rights is the best way to retain power in any confrontation with police. Knowledge is your best defense. Keep your mouth shut and your eyes, ears and mind open, to better remember everything that is said and done at the scene. For example, if you were taken into custody, did they ask you ANY questions pertaining to the offense after taking you into custody, but prior to reading your Miranda warning? If they do, try to remember what questions they asked you. That's something your lawyer needs to know about.
Trying to win the confrontation on the street, is a no-win proposition, and if you have any buddies present, tell them to stay out of it and just observe. Make sure you note who was there; they'll be people you want to subpoena to court, and your buddies will usually make good witnesses on your behalf if they don't involve themselves.
Some people may think it a little odd that I'm passing on this information, but it's stuff EVERYONE ought to be taught in school.

Again, if I get you, I'm going to do it clean, fair and square, with no cheating anywhere in it. I LIKE playing cops and robbers, and there's no sense of accomplishment in using loaded dice. It's like the difference between hunting bear in the wild, and shooting a tame bear for a bogus videotape. What we do in law enforcement affects people's lives in a very real way; I'm not out to seize someone's vehicle whose primary use for that vehicle is making their livelihood; on the other hand, if I find out that their primary means of making a living is preying off people who mind their own business and work for what they have, by stealing their cars and selling the parts, I'm probably going to want to limit his mobility (at least for a little while) and give him a dose of his own medicine by doing a felony forfeiture on his vehicle.

[This message has been edited by Vonov (edited 06-13-2007).]

I have a hypothetical situation. Let's say I install a couple thousand dollars worth of surveillance equipment in my vehicle to protect myself against the so called dirty cops. I get stopped, and the police officer performs an illegal search on my vehicle and plants some illegal substance in the trunk or something.

If my understanding of the federal statutes for drugs is correct, they can and most likely will take me off to jail and seize my car, and I will never get my car back.

Now if this is the case how would I be able to retrieve the evidence that will set me free?

And probably most likely scenario is that they find said surveillance video equipment and steal the tapes as well.

[This message has been edited by fieroluv (edited 06-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by fieroluv: I have a hypothetical situation. Let's say I install a couple thousand dollars worth of surveillance equipment in my vehicle to protect myself against the so called dirty cops. I get stopped, and the police officer performs an illegal search on my vehicle and plants some illegal substance in the trunk or something. If my understanding of the federal statutes for drugs is correct, they can and most likely will take me off to jail and seize my car, and I will never get my car back. Now if this is the case how would I be able to retrieve the evidence that will set me free? And probably most likely scenario is that they find said surveillance video equipment and steal the tapes as well.

That would be your lawyer's job. Under the rules of discovery, the defense is entitled to access every piece of evidence, including the vehicle, that the prosecution has in its possession. Withholding of, or tampering with, or obstructing access to, exculpatory evidence (stuff that tends to prove your innocence) is grounds for all kinds of nasty things to happen to the cops and prosecutors, from dismissal of the case and compensatory damages in civil court, to criminal prosecution for civil rights violations. No prosecutor in his right mind is going to knowingly put himself in that predicament, nor would there be any percentage in protecting any cops caught doing such stupidity.

[This message has been edited by Vonov (edited 06-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by Vonov:

Thank you for participating in this thread!

I get pulled over a lot! Normally for some lame excuse just to check me out. check out this thread for a couple of the reasons... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/065616.html I am a white male 39 years old and clean cut. I DO NOT fit the description of a trouble maker. I am a non drinker and non drug user so I know for a fact I am not driving like a person under the influence of anything.

Back in 1987 (1 year after graduation) I went to 1 of the high school football games. After the game a lot of people went to Mc. Donalds to eat. I seen a friend of mine (female) who I had not seen in a year since graduation. She was sitting at a table with a couple other people and I walked up behind her and covered her eyes with my hands and said "guess who". I was bent over a little in order to cover her eyes. Then I felt someone right up against my butt and I turned to look who it was. It was a cop. I said "can I help you". He said "your in my f'ing way". I said "is excuse me not part of your f'ing vocabulary"? I know I was rude but he was just as rude and in my opinion he started it. I was taken outside, placed in cuffs and put into the back of the patrol car. I was never told I was under arrest nor was I read my rights. The cop and his partner got into the car and began to preach to me that I could be arrested for dissorderly conduct. I told them to take me to jail then cause my father was (at the time) a cop and there were at least 4 wittnesses to the event and I would love a lawsuit. The 2 officers exited the car and talked for a couple min's. They then opened the ca to let me out and uncuffed me. I was told to leave. I told them no. I was 19years old and I did not have to leave. They tried their damndest to intimidate me but I just kept defying them with knowledge of laws. Finally they gave up and left. I told my father of the incident and my father and I went to tha dept and filed a complaint against the 2 officers. 4 days later I got a wriitten letter of appology in the mail from the 2 officers.

In 2000 I was in my Honda Civic EX four banger 5 speed with no mods, just a stock car. My friend and I went out on a Friday night. We were driving past a bar where his sister worked as a barmaid. He wanted to stop andtalk to her so we did. It had just finished raining and the parking lot of the bar was a dirt lot with abunch of pot holes. We were in the bar for 10 mins then left. We walked outside and there was a patrol car in the parking lot. I did not think anything of it cause like I said...I am a non drinker. We got in the car and proceeded to leave. As we were pulling out of the lot and onto the street the cop was behind me. There was a pot hole where the lot met the street and I did not realize how deep it was due to the rain that had filled it up. Whe I hit the hole, my foot slipped off the clutch as the bottom of my shoes were wet and the front tires made a little chirp. The cop hit the lights and pulled me right over. He came to the window and asked for license and stuff. I gave him all that and asked why he stopped me. He said for squeeling my tires. I told him what happened and he said "besides, you have been drinking". I said tha I was a non drinker and in fact had not been drinking. He then said "yeah right then why were u in a bar"? I asked if it was illegal to go in a bar? he said no but it is illegal to drink and drive. Again I told him that I was a non drinker and to give me a field sobriety test, breahalizer or blood test. He refused and I was written a ticket for exhihition of acceleration!

I was stopped by 2 cops in my appartment complex one night while I was walking around the cul-de-sac. There was an area in the complex that was under construction. They told me that they got a call of someone stealing stuff from the construction area and I fit the description to a T. I spent 1 and a half hours being questioned by these 2. They even drove me to the construction area and had me remove my shoes while they compared my shoes to the prints in that area. Both these cops were very rude and never once said sorry for the inconvience once they finally let me go.

I hate cops (no offence Vonov). I really do. I get so sick of being harrassed for stupid **** .

[This message has been edited by JimmyS (edited 06-13-2007).]

So many people claim cops are bad, are they?

No, they are not. In fact, they are very vital to our society as a whole. The majority of cops have the biggest hearts and are very selfless in what they give to their communities. Which is sometimes their life. The majority believe so much in justice that they never will give up on a case. Some believe so much in their duty that they make it their personal mission...ie...they do not just do it for the money, it is not just a job. They do this even when it seems that they do not make a difference. That when they take down a bad guy, another replaces him. Over and over.
Cops are no different than the rest of society. They are human. There are people everywhere who are bad at their jobs in the same realm that you are asking of. It is the bad ones that give the rest a bad name. Worse than a bad cop is is a bad District Attorney. Remember Nifong and the Duke rape case? There are also inside traders, lenient treatment for code enforcement, tax appraisals, the list can go on forever. All of them affect us. The personal experience, face to face, with a cop may evoke more emotion.
Myself, I can't remember an experience with an attitude cop. I do remember a couple of them but I don't remember the experience. I suppose it is fair to say I have been pulled over a lot through the years. Generally, I have been treated with respect.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: I ask him what the problem is, ....

Thus, you set the stage for the stop. A cop, anyone, responds to us. When I was young and the word hassle was cool, I was pulled over. I asked him what the hassle was. That was not a good stop, . A cop will treat you just as good as you treat him. I might suggest just greeting the officer when stopped. "Good evening/afternoon/ morning officer" and leave it at that He will tell you everything you need to know anyway. Remember, a cop is in charge and needs to be in charge of a traffic stop. He would like to leave just as soon as he can also even...especially if he is on a revenue mission. Being stopped by a cop, to me, is sort of like a chess game. It is also an exercise in psychology. Make the right moves, push the right buttons, you can get out of any ticket save a revenue ticket.
Above, I mentioned attitude cop. The bad cops are the ones that lie, cheat, and steal. Sell drugs, give protection. Think that they are above the law. The ones that think they make law. These cops make an attitude cop look like a pansy although many are one and the same. I have had some experience with crooked cops also.

quote Originally posted by WhiteDevil88: My experience has been "the smaller the town, the bigger the clown".

Yeah, I have heard that. True, many small towns have easy requirements to employment than bigger town/cities and attract lesser qualified individuals and the ones that can not work elsewhere. Although your clich'e is cute and rhymes, my experience has been "the smaller the town, the bigger the circus". Small towns have the good ole boy system. The clown gets by kissing the A$$ of those that feed them...or/and doing their biddings. I will spare you my horror stories (a feast of a meal for some other thread) but, listen to this one.
My wife, 50 years old, never arrested in her life (till she met me, , j/k). Not actually I am not. She was arrested once and after she met me. She was drunk which is rare. Rare rare. I tried to calm her....(nevermind)... ...the county judge that complained of noise which led to her arrest was gonna hear the case.

quote Originally posted by Red88FF: They came up with DUI to get around the legal limit or line set by DWI.

Actually, DUI can pertain to alcohol but I think it was set up to address other mind altering products. Whether prescription medicines to illicit drugs.

quote Originally posted by Pyrthian: I am surprised by how many people think the problem is the individual officers, and not the self-serving conflicting system they work for. it is just a job, after all. anyone ever attend traffic court? cops are usually nice & forgiving - its the judge that reaches out & empties your wallet.

Well, that is the judge's job to do so. A cop can be nice and forgiving before one sees a judge. I think the problem is with the police departments and 'city hall'. REVENUE, a back door tax.

quote Originally posted by D B Cooper: That's exactly why I feel all the proceeds from tickets & fines should be divided up and refunded to the taxpayers quarterly; treat the taxpayers like shareholders and the proceeds like dividends.

In a sense this happens. The revenue proceeds reduce the amount of taxes needed. What would be nice is an accounting of how that money was spent.

I really don't get your point, Cliff. I was never rude to him, I know pissing him off isn't going to make the situation any better. I said Hi Officer and asked him what the problem was, because I honestly didn't know why he pulled me over. And in the end, I was right. He wanted to give me a lecture about how fast to go on that particular on ramp and gave me a fix-it ticket, probably so I couldn't claim he was harassing me for no reason.

Probably a little off topic, but I also hate the public service announcements that the police put on about seat belts. The are always lecturing on PSA's about how seat belts save lives, and that they are only out there writing tickets to save lives. I hate being lied to. They are not out there trying to protect us by writing seat belt tickets. They could give a rats a$$ about my safety. They are out there to make as much money in as short a period of time as possible. And seat belt tickets are the quickest and easiest way for them to do it.

Me personally I feel the law is unconstitutional. I follow the law and wear my seat belt 100% of the time, but I don't agree with the law at all. My understanding is that laws are written to protect the people from each other and are not to be written to protect yourself from yourself, in which case the seat belt law is unconstitutional. Just my view on the subject.

And why don't they just tell the truth on those commercials. Just say wear you seat belt or you will get a ticket we need money to fill pot holes with tar that will only last a week.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: I really don't get your point, Cliff. I was never rude to him, I know pissing him off isn't going to make the situation any better. I said Hi Officer and asked him what the problem was, .....

Well, my point was not directed at the situation that you had per say, sorry. I meant it as an illustration that any of us set the stage by the first thing(s) we say and do. Also, the question was unnecessary although understandable. You are gonna find out anyway. No sense questioning the officer's intelligence. As I said...

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Being stopped by a cop, to me, is sort of like a chess game. It is also an exercise in psychology.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: In a sense this happens. The revenue proceeds reduce the amount of taxes needed. What would be nice is an accounting of how that money was spent.

I have to disagree there. I realize it would take a tax hike to fully support the department, or local government, or wherever all that money goes. But the simple fact is, the more fines levied the more money they have at their disposal. That's the part that is dead wrong; in private business it would lead to ruin. The operating budget needs to be completely independent of the number of infractions found. Period.

Imagine a manufacturing plant decides to pay for its quality department by attaching a bounty to each nonconforming part rejected, and decides that the quality auditors need the power to fire anyone on the spot if they put up an arguement. Now tell me this plant's scrap rate wouldn't shoot through the roof.

BTW I'd also like to say thank you Vonov for your input in this thread. I'm deeply impressed by your sense of fair play, and I kinda doubt you'd have made some of those statements if you were not sincere.

So many people claim cops are bad, are they? ... No. They are human. The catch is, the one and only thing a human can be trusted to do is what he thinks is in his own best interest. That's the fundamental reason why our founding fathers set our government up with checks and balances built in. I'm just kinda bummed that the checks and balances have deteriorated somewhat. And that we as a whole have become complacent and forgotten that the price of liberty is constant vigilance.

[This message has been edited by D B Cooper (edited 06-13-2007).]

quote Originally posted by cliffw: So many people claim cops are bad, are they?

Yes they are bad when they VIOLATE the rules they are bound to which they do about 99% of the time.

I'm not going to say cops dont have a "function" in society but that the do the majority of the time is a violation of thier sworn oath to serve.

Excellent observations about the hiring practices of small communities, Cliff. Background investigations, psych evals, and training all cost lots of money, which is in notoriously short supply in smaller municipalities, which is why the lesser qualified/less mentally fit individuals usually wind up working in smaller departments, although some of the best law enforcement officers I've ever met work in small towns.

Fastback86, ever walk into a business (local Ace Hardware is the worst offender I can think of) and a salesman begins to shadow you through the store, and asks, in exactly the wrong tone of voice for the question, "Can I help you??" as if he's sure you're there to steal something, and refuses to leave your side until he's sure you've purchased everything you're there to pick up, and carries at least part of it to the checkout? Even though you've never stolen anything in your life, the message is firmly conveyed that you're viewed as a potential thief. It's the reason I, and most everyone else I know, avoids that store like the plague.

The phrase, "What's the problem?" implies in the same kind of way that you are ready to be argumentative, or at least that's the subliminal message it tends to carry.
Just try saying, "Hi, how's it going?" like you would to someone you see casually around the neighborhood from time to time. He'll tell you why he pulled you over, and I bet by the time you're done, you'll both think of each other as human beings. Responding to a stop in the manner I just described will also lower your anxiety level, and the officer will usually respond to that. Words like "hassle" and "problem" are loaded with negative connotations, and tend to set the tone for the interaction between you.

LOL

I read that. Funny stuff.

quote Originally posted by Fastback 86: He wanted to give me a lecture about how fast to go on that particular on ramp.

I got pulled over around San Mateo for the same thing once. I went up the turning on-ramp quickly because someone right ahead of me did, and I thought to myself "yah I can do that too". The officer told me that he had been following me since before the on-ramp and saw me speed up it. So I told him, then you probably saw the other car because he was going much faster then me. He said, yes I did, but I can't go after everyone can I? I thought hmmmmmm so you chase the slower one? wtf. anyways he gave me a nice long lecture and then told me he either gives a ticket or a lecture. I was glad I got the lecture and not the ticket. It just felt so weird though. Maybe it's a California thing.

quote Originally posted by 84Bill: We had 4 in my town. Most of the time when they were quick enough to catch one or two of us drinking they would just take our stash. Most of us never got cought. I destintly remember climbing up a tree with a buddy of mine and officer Bernie Fife stood at the bottom telling us monkeys to climb out of the tree. My friend wanted to climb down I was like NO you idiot he aint going to climb the tree.

Why climb?

"Tim-m-m-b-e-r-r-r-r!!!"

I'll agree that not all cops are bad, but I'd have to say the good ones are in the minority. I've only seen the bad ones. The only decent cop would be a friend of mine I went to high school with, but even as friends, I'll conceed he's an a-hole, so I wouldn't want to deal with him on the job either.

I think many cops go into the job wanting to make a difference, and the longer they're on the force the worse they become. The job beats you down, over and over. There's only so much a person will take before they say "'f*** it" and do whatever they want. That's why I think there should be a mandatory up or out policy on police forces - you either get promoted up off the streets within a certain period, or you get cut loose.

The best way to deal with a cop, even a bad one, is to understand what they need in an encounter. They must maintain control of the situation. If you let them control the situation, you put them at ease. When you challenge them, they're going to escalate the situation to maintain their control. You're normally far better off keeping your mouth shut and letting the cop rant and rave then file charges against the cop later if you feel it's warranted than you are spouting off about your legal rights to his or her face. You may be in the right, but it won't help you end the encounter any quicker or easier. That doesn't mean waiving your rights, but try to assert your rights in as non-confrontational a manner as possible. Telling an officer "I do not consent to a search." is much better than saying "You don't have any probable cause to search my car!"

My high school buddie who's a cop told me once that anytime an officer pulls someone over, they want 3 things:
-Driver's License
-Registration
-No Sh*t

quote Originally posted by Formula88: I'll agree that not all cops are bad, but I'd have to say the good ones are in the minority. I've only seen the bad ones. The only decent cop would be a friend of mine I went to high school with, but even as friends, I'll conceed he's an a-hole, so I wouldn't want to deal with him on the job either. I think many cops go into the job wanting to make a difference, and the longer they're on the force the worse they become. The job beats you down, over and over. There's only so much a person will take before they say "'f*** it" and do whatever they want. That's why I think there should be a mandatory up or out policy on police forces - you either get promoted up off the streets within a certain period, or you get cut loose. The best way to deal with a cop, even a bad one, is to understand what they need in an encounter. They must maintain control of the situation. If you let them control the situation, you put them at ease. When you challenge them, they're going to escalate the situation to maintain their control. You're normally far better off keeping your mouth shut and letting the cop rant and rave then file charges against the cop later if you feel it's warranted than you are spouting off about your legal rights to his or her face. You may be in the right, but it won't help you end the encounter any quicker or easier. That doesn't mean waiving your rights, but try to assert your rights in as non-confrontational a manner as possible. Telling an officer "I do not consent to a search." is much better than saying "You don't have any probable cause to search my car!" My high school buddie who's a cop told me once that anytime an officer pulls someone over, they want 3 things: -Driver's License -Registration -No Sh*t

All good observations, especially the one about the cop needing to maintain control of the situation. A street cop who is careless in that regard will not live long, unless he is very, very lucky. And you are also correct in saying that letting him maintain control and being as non-confrontational as possible puts them at ease.
I think part of the problem with some folks having hassles every time they deal with cops, goes back to how they learned to talk to their parents. If they were in the kind of family where the parents tolerated backtalk and argument about everything their parents told them, it's just normal for those people to fall into that mode---and therein lies the trouble. Not saying it's necessarily wrong to be raised that way, but they sure are setting their kids up for some hard times when the kids later on come up against rules and institutions like the law and the courts that don't bend as easily as Mom and Dad.
If they want their kids to be successful, parents should teach them that their are other ways of winning a confrontation besides head-on, and teach them enough self-discipline to at least be able to project the appearance of respect for those in positions of power, even if that respect does not in fact exist.
It's straight out of Sun-Tzu's "Art of War".

quote Originally posted by Vonov: All good observations, especially the one about the cop needing to maintain control of the situation. A street cop who is careless in that regard will not live long, unless he is very, very lucky. And you are also correct in saying that letting him maintain control and being as non-confrontational as possible puts them at ease. I think part of the problem with some folks having hassles every time they deal with cops, goes back to how they learned to talk to their parents. If they were in the kind of family where the parents tolerated backtalk and argument about everything their parents told them, it's just normal for those people to fall into that mode---and therein lies the trouble. Not saying it's necessarily wrong to be raised that way, but they sure are setting their kids up for some hard times when the kids later on come up against rules and institutions like the law and the courts that don't bend as easily as Mom and Dad. If they want their kids to be successful, parents should teach them that their are other ways of winning a confrontation besides head-on, and teach them enough self-discipline to at least be able to project the appearance of respect for those in positions of power, even if that respect does not in fact exist. It's straight out of Sun-Tzu's "Art of War".

lol - this would fit in really good in another thread going on right now, about how many more 'africans' are in jail. I'd expect the initial confrontation of cop vs suspect has alot to do with it. you really can make things SO MUCH harder on yourself. needlessly. a simple $70 ticket turns into resisting arrest & assault on an officer....

Didn't they see Chris Rock's PSA: "How to Not Get Your A** Kicked by the PO-lice"

quote Originally posted by Vonov: Why climb? "Tim-m-m-b-e-r-r-r-r!!!"

LOL

I forgot to mention there was a platform built up fairly high in the tree that could fit 4 or 5. So we could whisper without being heared or seen. The tree itself was a very old willow and the base was atleast 7 foot dia. Officer Fife was about the same diameter lol!! Needless to say he was not a very fast one.. Now Lithgho OTOH was a bit quicker and he employed treachery and stealth.. He eventually became the chief detective..