They can bring in a dog etc. If you refuse, that is not a violation. If they search without consent, this is a violation. If they truly had PC (probable cause, they could search without consent). I only bring a dog in when im damn sure there is something to go after. I'm sure there are are a-holes out there, no doubt. I became a cop to catch bad guys, not harass people. I also don't write tickets for things I do myself i.e. speed, unless its WAAAY deserved. Unfortunatley, the bad experiences stick with people more then the good, that ultimately gives the rest of us a bad image.

Just to keep perspective. I went through a DWI checkpoint the other day, the first Officer asked for my license and registration. I handed them over, he glanced at them and proclaimed them good. I pulled forward. The car in front of me was a co-worker, we had just got off of work. His insurance card had expired the day before, he still had insurance, and had the paper showing that, but because he didn't have the card he was issued a ticket. While I was waiting for them to allow him to go I had another officer come forward, and ask me again for my information. I said the other officer just looked at it, that apparently didn't matter to him, so I handed them over again. this time he called in my information (possibly because I had questioned him) while he was waiting for it to come back all clear the other officer walked up to him and asked why he was checking me again. Second cop stated he didn't think I had been checked yet. Meanwhile they had my co-worker out doing a sobriety check, as well as the guy behind me. They asked him how much he had drank, not if he had drank. (sound Familiar Mike, I think it's the new standard).

The officer that checked me first was a State Trooper, the second was a Sheriff. The guy giving my co-worker grief was a Sheriff.

It seems that more training in higher levels sorts these guys out a little bit.

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: Just to keep perspective. I went through a DWI checkpoint the other day, the first Officer asked for my license and registration. I handed them over, he glanced at them and proclaimed them good. I pulled forward. The car in front of me was a co-worker, we had just got off of work. His insurance card had expired the day before, he still had insurance, and had the paper showing that, but because he didn't have the card he was issued a ticket. While I was waiting for them to allow him to go I had another officer come forward, and ask me again for my information. I said the other officer just looked at it, that apparently didn't matter to him, so I handed them over again. this time he called in my information (possibly because I had questioned him) while he was waiting for it to come back all clear the other officer walked up to him and asked why he was checking me again. Second cop stated he didn't think I had been checked yet. Meanwhile they had my co-worker out doing a sobriety check, as well as the guy behind me. They asked him how much he had drank, not if he had drank. (sound Familiar Mike, I think it's the new standard). The officer that checked me first was a State Trooper, the second was a Sheriff. The guy giving my co-worker grief was a Sheriff. It seems that more training in higher levels sorts these guys out a little bit. Brad

You will always have your hard headed guys. I have worked as an officer for both a city and Sheriff's office. My experience is that the City departments along with state are better equipped and have a all around better attitude. All training is state mandated, so that's not necessarily a factor. Many of the deputies I worked with for the Sheriff's office were what I called yahoos. Good ol boys with hypocritical approaches in policing. Not all, but many.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 11-03-2009).]

The skinny: "Gibson was initially booked on suspicion of felony assault on a BART police officer who removed him from the train at the West Oakland Station, walked him across the platform and shoved him toward a window, which shattered. Gibson suffered several cuts, and the officer was treated for a large gash on his head and a concussion."

1. Why drop felony charges?
2. Why did the officer in question file assault charges and resisting arrest?

Here's why; cause the video demonstrates that the suspect didn't resist and that he didn't assault the officer. The officer therefore trumped-up the charges to make them stick or in other words... he lied! Why did the officer feel he could get away with lying? Obviously, it's a common practice. Get this, the officer in question joined Bart in March of this year. Either the officer carried these practices over from his last job or he learned pretty quickly regarding "how-too" trump-up charges.

Question; do you think officicals will file charges against the officer for filling a false claim?


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...11/25/BA9U1AQ2VA.DTL

11-24) 18:18 PST OAKLAND -- Alameda County prosecutors declined Tuesday to file felony assault charges against a San Leandro man whose window-shattering arrest at a BART station was posted on YouTube.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Joseph Gibson, 37, was charged with three misdemeanors - disturbing the peace, public intoxication and indecent exposure - stemming from his actions Saturday on a BART train where he allegedly harassed and threatened fellow passengers.

Gibson was initially booked on suspicion of felony assault on a BART police officer who removed him from the train at the West Oakland Station, walked him across the platform and shoved him toward a window, which shattered. Gibson suffered several cuts, and the officer was treated for a large gash on his head and a concussion.

The incident, which another passenger filmed with a cell phone and posted on YouTube, amounted to "an overreaction by the police officer in grabbing him," said Gibson's attorney, John Burris. "If you look at the tape, at no point in time did Mr. Gibson ever strike and/or resist the officer. He was essentially being manhandled and ultimately thrown against the window."

Ann Kenfield, an Alameda County deputy district attorney, said officials in her office "reviewed the complaint, reviewed all the police work and made the charging decision."

Gibson had been held on $51,500 bail. Commissioner Karen Rodrigue lowered the total to $5,000.

Burris had asked bail be set at $2,500. In arguing against that, Kenfield cited five other misdemeanor cases in which Gibson has been involved, six previous failures to appear in court and 18 instances in which his probation has been revoked.

Gibson's family says he suffers from bipolar disorder. He appeared disheveled and said little during his brief appearance Tuesday in an Oakland courtroom. Coin-size spots of blood were visible on his heavily bandaged right hand and forearm.

Outside the courtroom, Gibson's aunt Sylvia Hawkins said she was "very happy" he had been charged only with misdemeanors.

"I was just trying to get Michael a fair day in court. That was it," Hawkins said. "I don't dispute that police should arrest people when they are drunk and disorderly. That's what they should have done. All this other stuff that came up, that the policeman was hurt because Michael assaulted him, I never saw that."

Hawkins said the officer, whom BART has not identified, "was abusive" and "used excessive force."

BART spokesman Linton Johnson said he would not second-guess prosecutors on the case.

"Police departments, their job is to fight crime," Johnson said. "The district attorney has to make the case in court. The D.A. did what they thought was best to win this case."

Oh here's the initial story:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...11/23/MN9V1AORMM.DTL

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 11-25-2009).]

Bad dog, bad dog.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...12/17/BA6L1B5PU2.DTL

(12-17) 16:49 PST ALAMEDA -- An Alameda police dog trying to flush out a burglary suspect was shot and killed by an officer Thursday after the dog attacked her and bit her arm, a police spokesman said.

Billy, a Belgian Malinois, and his handler were among those responding to a burglary at the Coast Guard recruiting center at 660 Central Ave. shortly before 6:15 a.m., police Lt. Bill Scott said.

Billy bit a uniformed officer assisting on the call. The dog did not let go when his handler ordered him to do so, and the officer being bitten shot him three times, killing him, Scott said.

The officer, whose name was not released, has been with the department two years. She was treated for bite wounds to her left arm at Highland Hospital in Oakland and was released.

Immediately after the dog was shot, burglary suspect Douglas Wayne Kirk, 56, emerged with items he had allegedly stolen but refused to surrender, Scott said. He was arrested after a brief struggle and was treated at Alameda Hospital for minor lacerations, police said.

He told officers that he was the one who was supposed to have been shot, Scott said. Police later determined that Kirk had called police himself to report the break-in, leading investigators to believe that Kirk had tried to set up a confrontation with police, Scott said.

Billy had been with the department for more than three years and was assigned to his current handler in September.

On May 5, another police Belgian Malinois died after being left inside an Alameda officer's personal sport utility vehicle as the officer attended a use-of-force training exercise.

After several hours, the officer returned to his vehicle - which had at least one window down for ventilation - and found his dog near death. The dog died at a veterinary hospital. The officer was not charged.

Police said the handler in that case was not the officer who was Billy's handler.

The department has suspended the use of its two remaining police dogs pending a review of "all the facets" of the K-9 program, including the circumstances that led up to Billy being deployed and his death, Scott said.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strange that officers instuct suspects to surrender with your hands up while the dog is bitting you; nearly a impossible thing to do, hehe.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 12-19-2009).]

2 of Oakland cops face demotion after report.

Let's see;
1. Evacuate the area.
2. No known lay-out of the area.
3. Egos on over-time to catch cop killer; yeah, that's a plan. Please tell me something we already didn't know and 2-officers lay dead because of it. Just plan stupid IMO.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...BAPU1BF6O3.DTL&tsp=1

Oakland Police Chief Anthony Batts, responding to a new report that found a series of blunders and lack of leadership contributed to the deaths of two of the four officers killed by a parolee last March, has moved to demote two of the supervisors singled out for criticism.
Lt. Chris Mufarreh and Capt. Rick Orozco were handed letters of proposed discipline Wednesday, sources told The Chronicle. The letters came the day the report by outside law enforcement experts faulted the two for an ill-conceived SWAT raid in which Sgts. Ervin Romans and Daniel Sakai were killed.
The chief, who came to Oakland from Long Beach in October, is proposing to bust Orozco down to sergeant and Mufarreh down to the rank of officer. The officers are expected to appeal.
Mufarreh was among the first midlevel officers to arrive in the aftermath of the fatal shootings of motorcycle cops Sgt. Mark Dunakin and Officer John Hege during a traffic stop at MacArthur Boulevard and 74th Avenue on March 21.
The investigatory report found that in the absence of any command leadership in the hunt for the suspected killer, Lovelle Mixon, Mufarreh "self-assigned" himself the job. He ordered up the "ad hoc" SWAT raid on an apartment building on 74th Avenue, where tipsters said Mixon had fled, the report said.
Neighbors weren't evacuated and SWAT team snipers and hostage negotiators hadn't yet arrived. The SWAT officers didn't know the apartment's layout, and there wasn't even an ambulance standing by when the team went in.
Orozco and Deputy Chief David Kozicki arrived in time and could have headed off the "flawed" raid, the report said, but signed off on it instead.
Kozicki has already taken early retirement.
The lawyer who represents both Orozco and Mufarreh, Michael Rains, conceded that they had made mistakes. But he said they are taking the fall for supervisors who never even showed up to run the search for the man who had just killed two cops.
"The department has apparently chosen to go after two individuals who took the initiative to provide leadership to the officers who were out there, when the individuals who should have been providing leadership were nowhere to be found," Rains said.
The letters will be followed by a hearing probably sometime in February. The officers can appeal any final decision to arbitration.
Batts did not return phone calls Thursday seeking comment.
According to the investigative review, 115 police officers from Oakland and other agencies charged to the scene of the initial shooting without any clear leadership. No one ever set up a command post to coordinate the search.
The report, headed by a former Pasadena police chief, found that "almost all the senior OPD senior command officers that responded went to the hospital first" to console the families of the two officers slain in the traffic stop. We're told they included then-acting Police Chief Howard Jordan.
After Batts took over as chief last fall, Jordan returned to his former post as the department's assistant chief.
One of the investigative report's authors, who asked not to be named because of the confidentiality pledge he gave to the Police Department, said having everyone at the top converge on the hospital at the outset was a mistake - but not entirely surprising.
"It's a natural reaction when some of your guys are hurt," the law enforcement veteran said. "And initially, they probably had no idea things were going to take a different turn at the scene."

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 01-08-2010).]

So much cop hate in here.....

quote Originally posted by slinger: So much cop hate in here.....

If they only knew how much I hated them.

Though I am not a fan of using violence against my enemies (like terrorists) I am sure if they knew exactly how I felt about them they would have a car following me around, and probably put me on that watchlist.

Once again, not that I would use violence, I just will not help a cop out in any way.

Brad

I have mixed feelings. On one hand the 5 cops i have had to deal with personally in my life where really nice. Other hand it seems if my dad gets pulled over or even my uncle who is a cop and they tell me how much of a dick the cop is to them, its hard to like them after hearing that.

Seems one bad apple kinda spoils the bunch.

A Bad Rap.

http://cbs5.com/watercooler...d.rap.2.1322332.html

Utah Teen Fights Citation For Rapping Food Order
4 Teenagers Given Citation For McDonald's Drive-Through Rap, Mimicking YouTube Video

The case of one of four teens who were cited after rapping their order at a McDonald's in Utah appears headed for trial.

Police in American Fork, about 30 miles south of Salt Lake City, cited the teens with disorderly conduct last month after the drive-through rap.

The teens have said they were imitating a rap from a popular YouTube video, which begins: "I need a double cheeseburger and hold the lettuce."

Spenser Dauwalder, 18, has said employees at the fast-food restaurant told him and his friends they were holding up the line and needed to order or leave.

But Dauwalder said no one else was in line. He and his three 17-year-old friends left without buying anything.

A manager wrote down the car's license plate number and called authorities, police Sgt. Gregg Ludlow has said. Officers later cited the teens in a high school parking lot outside a volleyball match.

"We thought, you know, just teenagers out having fun," Dauwalder told KSL Newsradio last month. "We didn't think it would escalate to that."

Dauwalder is challenging the disorderly conduct infraction in state court in Utah County. He pleaded not guilty earlier this month, and at a hearing Wednesday, a bench trial was set for Jan. 29, said his mother, Sharon Dauwalder.

"It's just, it's wrong," Sharon Dauwalder said. "I think the whole thing is wrong."

Spenser Dauwalder's attorney, Ann Boyle, said the whole incident has been overblown.

"I just believe that the kids had a right to sing their order," Boyle said. "They asked them to leave, and they left."

But attorney Kasey Wright, who represented American Fork in court Wednesday, said the case isn't about free speech.

"This is not a First Amendment case," he said. "This is disturbing the peace. It's interrupting a business."

Wright said he's open to working out a deal in the case "if it can serve the demands of justice and the public interest." He said the trial likely wouldn't last more than an hour and is similar to what would happen if someone fought a speeding ticket in court.

yes, were all bad. Just like all Jews are misers, all blacks are criminals, all Muslims are terrorists, all Italians are dirty, all pollacks are dumb, all Mexicans are lazy, all natives are drunks, all white people are racists. Any more generalities we should add?

All Fiero owners are cheap?

Jonathan

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-b...01/21/BAGO1BLROH.DTL

Officers did not use excessive force, jury finds

Thursday, January 21, 2010

Melvin Hardnett, 35, of San Pablo was shot dead May 29, 2006, after he led police on a car chase, fled from the vehicle and then struggled with Officers Frank Perino and Mark Galios, authorities said.

Perino shot and killed Hardnett during the altercation, and police and a pathologist testified at a coroner's inquest that Hardnett was under the influence of cocaine. Galios said Hardnett tried to reach for his gun.

In a $10 million lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in San Francisco, Hardnett's mother, Delores Stringer, said her son was unarmed and that his death was "brutal, malicious and done without just provocation or cause."

On Wednesday, a federal jury determined otherwise, saying the officers did not use excessive force or violate Hardnett's civil rights.

Ben Nisenbaum, Stringer's attorney, said Thursday that jurors had been split about the case. Nisenbaum said the question still remained as to "how does a traffic stop turn into a shooting and did that really have to happen?"

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: They can bring in a dog etc. If you refuse, that is not a violation. If they search without consent, this is a violation. If they truly had PC (probable cause, they could search without consent). I only bring a dog in when im damn sure there is something to go after. I'm sure there are are a-holes out there, no doubt. I became a cop to catch bad guys, not harass people. I also don't write tickets for things I do myself i.e. speed, unless its WAAAY deserved. Unfortunatley, the bad experiences stick with people more then the good, that ultimately gives the rest of us a bad image.

First off I want to personally thank you for being a good cop. I mean it too.
I could go on and on about why I don't give a cop the benefit of the doubt anymore. What good would it do. It really is the same problem from two different sides. That's just it. We shouldn't be two different sides. I take responsibility for my prejudice but who truly should be held responsible? The citizen or the man that choose to take on the responsibility of being a cop?

The things I have seen cops do is unbelievable but these are not the worst offenders. The cops that treat people like **** or beat the hell out of you because you are a minority.
No these guys I can deal with. I know what they are. It is the rest of the cops that keep their mouth shut and keep them on the streets that I really hate.

A cops biggest crime is to allow another cop to abuse his authority. I rightfully hold you to a higher much higher standard.

"Officer purchases food for man caught stealing"

quote http://dailychronicle.com/a.../news/000goodcop.txt published on Thursday, February 4, 2010 10:57 PM MST By AMANDA RICKER Chronicle Staff Writer Bozeman Police Officer Marek Ziegler was called to Van’s IGA last Friday night to check on a shoplifting report. The 33-year-old officer has been on the Bozeman force for three years. He is a K-9 handler and works nights, from about 9 p.m. to 7 a.m. When he got to the grocery store on North Seventh Avenue, employees told Ziegler that a 32-year-old man had stuffed food and “pens, pencils, maybe markers, things for his kids” into his coat. The officer arrested the man, cited him for theft and then released him. But the story didn’t end there. Ziegler had asked the man why he had been stealing. “He was really upset,” Ziegler said this week. “Basically, he told me he’s having a hard time and can’t provide the food for his family right now, so that’s why he was stealing.” Ziegler already had the man’s address, but asked for the man’s phone number. “I told him, ‘Give me 15 minutes,’ and I went and got him some food.” Ziegler ran to Wal-Mart, picked up a few frozen pizzas and delivered them to the man’s house. “Obviously, as a police officer, I have a job to do, but we’re still human, too,” Ziegler said. When the officer handed over the food, the man shook his hand and thanked him for understanding, Ziegler said. And then Ziegler kept the story to himself. However, a Chronicle reporter was at the 911 dispatch center that night. She overheard tidbits of the officer’s report that he was going to buy the man some food. The Chronicle sought out the story. Ziegler wasn’t seeking attention for his good deed. “These guys, they just don’t really brag about things like that,” Acting Police Chief Marty Kent said. “It wouldn’t surprise me that he wouldn’t say anything.” Ziegler shrugged off the idea that he had done something out of the ordinary. “It’s just what we do to take care of each other,” he said. Amanda Ricker can be reached at aricker@dailychronicle.com or 582-2628.

[This message has been edited by OKflyboy (edited 02-07-2010).]

I have also seen cops buy people food & diapers out of their own pocket.

One bad apple don't.....................nope.

i dont like cops abusing the law. for example, this biker cop was cruising the 210 freeway in california for about 10 minutes going 80 mph. the speed limit is 65 mph. Well, since he was going 80 i figured i can go 80 too. Later on he slows down and looks at my car. then he pulls me over and asks what the **** i was doing. I usually have an attitude with cops. However, I played dumb and said some lie about going somewhere that was urgent. Then he tried to scare me about telling my 1SG/CO about my speeding ticket. In my mind i was like "really dude?" I wanted to put him on blast for breaking his own law... AND no i was not following him exactly. I wasnt tailgating him or whatever. kept a good distance and such. Why can the cop go 80, yet every1 else has to follow the rules...?

i was arrested once and that was fine. However, the cop inside the car driving me and used his cell phone to make a phone call. I put him on blast and they ignored me. I thought it was a double standard. if the people cant use them why can cops use them while driving?

Just because you are part of the law does that mean you can abuse or exploit it? pfft. thats my biggest beef. some cops are nice, but the most i met were dicks.

I wonder why the officer kept kicking the suspect even though he was on the ground. Notice the other officers reaction while he continued to kick blows.

http://www.postandcourier.c...eos/2008/mar/31/296/

quote Originally posted by ghost187x: i was arrested once and that was fine. However, the cop inside the car driving me and used his cell phone to make a phone call. I put him on blast and they ignored me. I thought it was a double standard. if the people cant use them why can cops use them while driving? Just because you are part of the law does that mean you can abuse or exploit it? pfft. thats my biggest beef. some cops are nice, but the most i met were dicks.

Heh, the times I have been arrested (3) the cops all sped, way over the limit, the last one didn't have a problem running stop signs, taking of fast enough to squeal the tires, and stopped like he was about to hit a dog. All while texting on his cell, and talking on it.

Just like a local cop in our small town, filling in for the local that is on vacation. He is constantly driving around in a truck with expired tags, and most likely no insurance. The other day he tried to give me a ticket for expired tags on the car. I don't have expired tags, he was thinking of someone else. He gave a friend of mine that has no license a ticket the other day because he "thought he saw him driving a few days before" My That ticket went straight to a lawyer.

Brad

quote Originally posted by twofatguys: ... He gave a friend of mine that has no license a ticket the other day because he "thought he saw him driving a few days before" ...

thought he saw him driving a few days before?!

He's not the sharpest tool in the shed, is he?

quote Originally posted by slinger: So much cop hate in here.....

they brought it upon themselves........

If they want to act like nazi barbarian thugs---then they WILL answer for thier crimes.

Tasering an 80-year old lady or a 15-year old-kid or shooting an unarmed man in the back is NOT "law enforcemt"---its thuggery, pure and simple--and it will not be tollerated in a civil society.

They are WAAAYYYYYYY out of hand, and it is long past time somebody gave them a good spanking like a wayword child.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 02-21-2010).]

oopppsss...double post. My bad.

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 02-21-2010).]

Nick, I want to thank you for giving us a LEO perspective on things.
I have to say, I don't trust the Police. I very much respect the good officers who are out there for the right reasons doing their job, but it's the bad ones I'm concerned about. Even though they may be in the minority, until I know otherwise, I have to assume any LEO I meet is on a power trip until his behavior demonstrates otherwise.

Sounds a lot like how you have to deal with suspects, doesn't it? I don't like that it has to be that way, but that's just the way it is. I will say this, though, I am always respectful and responsive when dealing with a LEO. When stopped, I turn the interior light on and put my hands on the wheel until instructed to do otherwise. My thinking is anything I can do to reassure the officer that I'm not a threat can only make the encounter go more smoothly. It's when you run into the ones looking for a confrontation that it gets hairy. I've had a few of those encounters as well.

Back in High School, a friend of mine was a dispatcher for the Wake Forest PD. WF was a tiny little podunk town (it's not much bigger today, 20 years later). Their officers ran on the policy of "If I have to turn on the blue lights, somebody's paying for the electricity." There were no warnings - only tickets or arrests. It was not a fun place to have an encounter with the police, and I'm saying that as knowing some of the officers on the force at the time.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: I wonder why the officer kept kicking the suspect even though he was on the ground. Notice the other officers reaction while he continued to kick blows. http://www.postandcourier.c...eos/2008/mar/31/296/

Case in point.
You just never know if the cop you're dealing with is gonna be a "kicker" or not.

[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 02-21-2010).]

I will add, at one time an Officer of the CHP drove me to a gas station and back to my truck when I ran out of gas in the middle of nowhere, Livermore, Cali............

Some may be good dudes----but that dont excuse the rest.

If you know the cop personally, he's just an OK guy with a bad job.
If you've just been pulled over for going 5 over the speed limit, he's an arrogant ba$tard.
I don't know any cops...and have NEVER had a good experience with one.
NEVER was I relieved or glad to see a cop.
As a law abiding citizen -I have no criminal record- it would be tempting to say that the police, in general, have an image problem of their own making.

quote Originally posted by Black Lotus: If you know the cop personally, he's just an OK guy with a bad job. If you've just been pulled over for going 5 over the speed limit, he's an arrogant ba$tard. I don't know any cops...and have NEVER had a good experience with one. NEVER was I relieved or glad to see a cop. As a law abiding citizen -I have no criminal record- it would be tempting to say that the police, in general, have an image problem of their own making.

no, man...they aint "ok guys with bad jobs",,,,,,,,

last girl I dated had a cop/security type son.....me having a smoke IN MY OWN TRUCK was such a big issue to this a-hole that it did end up with fists flying and knives pulled.

eff the stupid bastards. I bought it, I paid for it, I'm going to have a smoke in it whenever I damn well please.........some POS uniform wants to get in my face about it.......then well......

Houston, we have a problem.

To be honest this is a pretty idiotic thread. "are all cops bad?" eh....no. Its dumb logic. You cant label and generalize people into mass groups. Everyone has a story, that doesn't mean sh!t at the end of the day. Almost everyone has a story of being screwed by a mechanic, does that mean all mechanics are dishonest? For every bad story out there, there is a positive one as well.

people need to realize that PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, regardless of profession. Its pretty childish to think that ALL of any group of people are one way. Just b.c they all wear a similar uniform, does not mean they all think alike or at alike. I'm a great example of that. I argue all the time with cops about proper use of the TASER. I have plenty that agree with me, and plenty that don't.

Sorry, but I cant help and shake my head at such ignorance and immaturity. Its like the guy who says I was cut off by a BMW in rush hour, therefore all BWM drivers are assholes. Ok buddy, that's a real solid position to take.lol

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 02-21-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Case in point. You just never know if the cop you're dealing with is gonna be a "kicker" or not.

If I may add. If you are in a situation where a officer is kicking you while your on the ground with your hands out- you'll never know what will the other officers on the scene will do?

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: To be honest this is a pretty idiotic thread. "are all cops bad?" eh....no. Its dumb logic. You cant label and generalize people into mass groups. Everyone has a story, that doesn't mean sh!t at the end of the day. Almost everyone has a story of being screwed by a mechanic, does that mean all mechanics are dishonest? For every bad story out there, there is a positive one as well. people need to realize that PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, regardless of profession. Its pretty childish to think that ALL of any group of people are one way. Just b.c they all wear a similar uniform, does not mean they all think alike or at alike. I'm a great example of that. I argue all the time with cops about proper use of the TASER. I have plenty that agree with me, and plenty that don't. Sorry, but I cant help and shake my head at such ignorance and immaturity. Its like the guy who says I was cut off by a BMW in rush hour, therefore all BWM drivers are assholes. Ok buddy, that's a real solid position to take.lol

Maybe, Nick---but the a-hole BMW driver isnt the one abusing a position of authority to taser, beat, shoot and kill people...cops are.
If they cant respect an individuals legal and civil rights on thier own, then it needs to be done for them in the most forcefull and expensive manner possible.

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: Maybe, Nick---but the a-hole BMW driver isnt the one abusing a position of authority to taser, beat, shoot and kill people...cops are. If they cant respect an individuals legal and civil rights on thier own, then it needs to be done for them in the most forcefull and expensive manner possible.

SOME cops are. You have to break away from this mindset that all are one way. In composition writing class they call this a False logic. For example, Sports car are fast, therefore all people who drive sports cars speed and break the law. This is the same logic that is being applied in this argument. It holds no water. Do some cops abuse power? sure, do all? no. Do most abuse power per cap? no.

I am a cop, but I am not without criticism in such cases. to prove my point, read my article on TASER and abuses. Common sense logic and reasoning is needed, not finger pointing with a broad brush.

you may really like this article. It is written from a cops perspective, (me) and may surprise you in what you learn.
http://circlethewagons.net/...d-a-jolt-of-reality/

just as a very inaccurate guide, I first googled 'good deeds by cops' (107.000 links)and then 'bad deeds by cops (533.000 links). Seems to me that the average Human nature seeks to attack more than to praise? And so we get an unrealistic picture of proportion.
madcurl, can I ask you? What on earth has happened to you at the hands of the Police that you search out all these negative reports about the Police? None of them appear to have been related to you? It really seems to me you have a real hatred for the Police. Can you explain why? Not flaming you by asking...just wondering WHY this has become an apparent obsession of yours to denigrate the Law Enforcement Department?
Nick

[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 02-21-2010).]

quote Originally posted by MidEngineManiac: I will add, at one time an Officer of the CHP drove me to a gas station and back to my truck when I ran out of gas in the middle of nowhere, Livermore, Cali............ Some may be good dudes----but that dont excuse the rest.

From my experience with the CHP, I would suggest that the Officer's behavior represents more of the rule then the exception when it comes to the Highway Patrol. Even when citing me, they have always behaved professionally and represented the ethos of "To Serve and Protect."

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: SOME cops are. You have to break away from this mindset that all are one way.

You're right that only some are bad. With respects, but tell me, are you going to give up the mindset that a citizen you're about to stop might be a threat? No, you don't think they're ALL threats, but don't you treat them all as potential threats? Can you tell me why a citizen shouldn't react the same way to an officer? You're worried the person you've just stopped may have a weapon and be dangerous. We KNOW you have a weapon and are dangerous. We just don't know if you're a responsible, well trained officer or not.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: You're right that only some are bad. With respects, but tell me, are you going to give up the mindset that a citizen you're about to stop might be a threat? No, you don't think they're ALL threats, but don't you treat them all as potential threats? Can you tell me why a citizen shouldn't react the same way to an officer? You're worried the person you've just stopped may have a weapon and be dangerous. We KNOW you have a weapon and are dangerous. We just don't know if you're a responsible, well trained officer or not.

No offense, but that's a pretty lame comparison. If you don't act like an idiot, and act like a respectful human being, the officer is not going to perceive you as a" threat". You know damn well thats a piss poor example. Why do we treat every stop as a threat gee......because many cops have been killed simply walking up up to a car, the bullets break out the back window as they fire at the Officer. MANY officers have been killed walking up to a car by gun fire from the operator. How many times has a cop pulled some one over, and then simply open fire with no warning? Can you give any examples of that? we've all seen the videos of the officers being ambushed. Wheres the videos of the civilian being ambushed and killed on a traffic stop with no warning to fight back?

If you want to jump out of your car and make a scene, of course the officers will get aggressive. If you sit there with your hands on the wheel, and speak respectfully, you have nothing to worry about. Problem is, some people think they should have the right to mouth off like a douche bag, and expect the officer to treat them as if their harmless, even though their being verbally aggressive.

please tell me you have more logic then what you just posted.

[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 02-21-2010).]

Formula88 made a very rational post which I think showed both sides of the issue.
The local representative of the law called him stupid.
Sound like the kind of officer you want pulling you over???

quote Originally posted by scrabblegod: Formula88 made a very rational post which I think showed both sides of the issue. The local representative of the law called him stupid. Sound like the kind of officer you want pulling you over???

If your referring to me, I never called him stupid. By saying that citizens should consider all cops a threat to their safety b.c they have a weapon is hardly rational. Maybe if you lived in Saddams regime I would agree with you.

Apparently I've struck a nerve. Thank God I didn't do it while you had me stopped on the side of the road.
I'm sorry for offending you. Please don't kill me.

quote Originally posted by NickD3.4: No offense, but that's a pretty lame comparison. If you don't act like an idiot, and act like a respectful human being, the officer is not going to perceive you as a" threat". You know damn well thats a piss poor example. Why do we treat every stop as a threat gee......because many cops have been killed simply walking up up to a car, the bullets break out the back window as they fire at the Officer. MANY officers have been killed walking up to a car by gun fire from the operator. How many times has a cop pulled some one over, and then simply open fire with no warning? Can you give any examples of that? we've all seen the videos of the officers being ambushed. Wheres the videos of the civilian being ambushed and killed on a traffic stop with no warning to fight back? If you want to jump out of your car and make a scene, of course the officers will get aggressive. If you sit there with your hands on the wheel, and speak respectfully, you have nothing to worry about. Problem is, some people think they should have the right to mouth off like a douche bag, and expect the officer to treat them as if their harmless, even though their being verbally aggressive. please tell me you have more logic then what you just posted.

How sad for you.

Do you actually read what you post? Do have any idea how arrogant you sound?
--really--I'd like to know.

quote Problem is, some people think they should have the right to mouth off like a douche bag,

They do have, and have had-- that right for over 2 centuries.

I was not aware, that the police had the authority to revoke the 1st amendment, enabling them to infringe upon anyone's freedom of speech.

It's pretty bad, when among the complaintants, you are also finding the group (conservatives) that have historically stood up for law enforcement, now speak in much larger numbers about fearing police instead of speaking of respecting them ---as we once did.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-22-2010).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Apparently I've struck a nerve. Thank God I didn't do it while you had me stopped on the side of the road. I'm sorry for offending you. Please don't kill me.

LOL! come on. geeze.