Originally posted by NickD3.4: If you want to jump out of your car and make a scene, of course the officers will get aggressive. If you sit there with your hands on the wheel, and speak respectfully, you have nothing to worry about.
Sorry, for I'm late to this discussion, but I read this post, and regardless of all else you said, I saw this one line. And I thought, (?)so my job as a citizen of this great country is to wait for the words, "Seine papieren sind in Ordnung. Gehen Sie an." (?)Huh(?) While keeping my hands on the wheel and speaking "respectfully" to the "authorities?" I'm here to tell you, no, it's not.
I notice that, as justification for your position, you toss about the word "many" quite lightly. "Many" cops have been killed, etc. "Many" can be any number higher than three. Yes, it happens. Police officers do die in the course of their duty. I don't want that, I don't like that. But the fact that it happens, does not make every one of us a suspect, much less a likely cop killer. You said it yourself:
quote
people need to realize that PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE, regardless of profession. Its pretty childish to think that ALL of any group of people are one way. Just b.c they all wear a similar uniform, does not mean they all think alike or at alike.
Fine. Take your own words to heart. Realize that people are people. Most of us don't wear uniforms. We're independent. We're unpredictable. We're not even all the same color. It's the best part of being free.
You took the job on. You seem to have pride in wanting to do it well, and that I respect. But don't ever expect the rest of us to sacrifice our freedoms so that you can do your job. And please don't ever tell me to be subservient as a condition of gaining your polite attention. Most Americans, being people, and free people, at that, don't do "subservient" very well. People are People, after all. We all love to be free, even if we don't wear uniforms.
IP: Logged
12:16 AM
FriendGregory Member
Posts: 4833 From: Palo Alto, CA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
Originally posted by fierofetish: madcurl, can I ask you? What on earth has happened to you at the hands of the Police that you search out all these negative reports about the Police? None of them appear to have been related to you? It really seems to me you have a real hatred for the Police. Can you explain why? Not flaming you by asking...just wondering WHY this has become an apparent obsession of yours to denigrate the Law Enforcement Department? Nick
I hope it is ok to answer for others about this. Apparently driving while black is a crime by itself to the tune of almost banishing a weapon and is is a cause of first and excessive contact. How would the cop respond to a report of you pointing a gun out the window of the car? That is about what most black people get when they are pulled over. I myself have had nothing but fair treatment by police, maybe sometimes they let me get away with more than they needed to. I think it is funny when they go for the 20 questions game
They do have, and have had-- that right for over 2 centuries.
I was not aware, that the police had the authority to revoke the 1st amendment, enabling them to infringe upon anyone's freedom of speech.
It's pretty bad, when among the complainants, you are also finding the group that have historically stood up for law enforcement (conservatives) now speak in much larger numbers about fearing police instead of speaking of respecting them as we once did.
Maryjane, not with more of your anti-police BS. I never said anything about revoking 1st amendment rights. You can say anything you want to a police officer, just like you can say anything you want to a guy in a bar. If you mouth off and are nasty to a cop that just stopped you, will they look at you as possibly a threat? Maybe, depends on how loud and aggressive your acting.
This is basic stuff guys, normal human nature. If you mouth off to a guy in a bar, will you get popped in the mouth? maybe. Im not saying a cop should act that way, what Im saying is that its normal for a human to react to loud aggressive Behavior. I have met some douche bad cops who like to throw their weight around, and thats not right. Is that the majority, no.
There is no reason to expect however, that a cop is going to shoot you with no provocation. Are there any cases we know of where a cop stopped someone and just started shooting for no reason? I don't know of any, and if there is, its pretty isolated. Do we know of any incidents where cops stop a car, and they get fired on immediately? PLENTY. happens every year.
the list goes on and on. Show me anything remotely close in comparison, and not just one example of some freak incident. Show where there is a steady case of cops doing this very thing to civilians.
I guess by your standards Im a bad guy too because im a cop. Amazing, I become an officer to help people and do some good for my fellow man. Instead of being identified as an individual, I get the pleasure of being told how horrible I am, and how all cops are bad. I I especially love how people tell me they want to kill me, or they laugh when a fellow officer is murdered and say "I love it when pigs die". It really makes you think sometimes what has happened to people.
I go to work wanting to help people, but at the same time I want to go home to see my wife and daughter. There are plenty of jobs that pay better without the risk. If I'm cautious on a traffic stop, is that not unreasonable? 5 of my fellow officers were gunned down last year. but hey, were just power hungry murderers who had it coming right?
maybe you guys should watch these videos and then ask your self..."would I be careful when stopping a vehicle of unknown occupants?" well......you better if you want to live to retirement.
I don't take this personally, I just want to offer a perspective perhaps you guys don't think about. I'm done posting on this topic. Maryjane, no offense, but I'm not going to get into it with you. You have long ago showed you biased against law enforcement. I chooses to accept that people are people, regardless of uniform, creed, color, or profession. We define our selves as individuals. You don't define me, and I don't define you. A uniform sure as hell doesn't define me, my deeds do.
Police officers vary as individuals as much as anyone else. to sit her and speak in generalities as if they are all one way is very linear in logic and void of any real dynamic intellect. by this threads logic and reasoning all Jews are misers, all blacks are criminals, all Muslims are terrorists, all Italians are dirty, all pollacks are dumb, all Mexicans are lazy, all natives are drunks, all white people are racists. Any more generalities we should add?
Formula 88, you didn't strike a nerve, I don't take it personal . I do grow tired of people trying to "dehumanize" cops though, as if we are no people. It gets pretty old with the labeling. If you were a Marine, and came back from putting your life on the line in a combat zone, would you feel good hearing people say untrue things about marines, and how they kill babies. Would you like them to take isolated cases of where marines may have rapes someone, and then paint the whole Marine Corps with a broad brush saying all marines are killers and rapists? Most likely no, because its untrue. Most Marines are good people who serve with pride. There are some bad ones that tarnish the Corps, but not the majority.
Police Officers ARE NO DIFFERENT. It would just be nice for that simple truth to be acknowledged for once, that's all. I could really care less how you were rudely treated by a cop, guess what?...So have I. I have been stopped many times were the Officer were an ass to me. But you know what?..... I'm not them, and their not me.
Hey guys, So Many People say all Muslims are terrorists, is this true?......................................
Originally posted by NickD3.4: This is basic stuff guys, normal human nature. If you mouth off to a guy in a bar, will you get popped in the mouth? maybe. Im not saying a cop should act that way, what Im saying is that its normal for a human to react to loud aggressive Behavior.
Define "normal human nature." Are you talking about the law of the jungle, or the somewhat more developed rules of polite society? Everyday human society does not involve bar brawls. We do not expect our police to act as though one were constantly in progress.
And in case you don't know, Maryjane IS a Marine. I don't think you can preach to him about the standards of those who put their bodies "between their beloved homes. . ." I can't say I've read every one of his posts, here, but from those I have, I do know he understands the words "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States of America."
Freedom is a constant threat to those who would be in Authority.
Define "normal human nature." Are you talking about the law of the jungle, or the somewhat more developed rules of polite society? Everyday human society does not involve bar brawls. We do not expect our police to act as though one were constantly in progress.
And in case you don't know, Maryjane IS a Marine. I don't think you can preach to him about the standards of those who put their bodies "between their beloved homes. . ." I can't say I've read every one of his posts, here, but from those I have, I do know he understands the words "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States of America."
Freedom is a constant threat to those who would be in Authority.
Yes I know he was a marine. Once again, sadly this stuff went over you guys heads evidently.
1. I think you are taking all of this as a personal attack on you. I believe it was even said before in this thread that you (from what you had said) were the exception to the rule that we run into. We are not attacking you man.
2. This thread is not about all police officers being bad, that has been said several times in here too. I'll admit, I think 90% or more are bad cops, still, not all.
3. How old were you when you decided to become a police officer? I'm betting pretty young. Joined the academy at 18? How old are you now?
Now, on to my post:
I am fairly certain I can get at least two different members personal reference on here about my "attitude". I really am generally a mellow person, with decent manners (at least I like to believe so). I do not look like a druggie, or an alcoholic. As of lately I am fat and out of shape, adding even more to my non-druggie look. I wear decent clothes, Generally Polo type shirts, and jeans.
When I am pulled over (except the time I was pulled over in the parking, parked, eating a sandwich) I have sat, hands on wheel, waiting politely for the Officer to walk up.
I have a theory about why it changes for us, and not you.
I was riding with a cop that got pulled over. When the other officer came up to the window the guy I was with pulled out his license, and Police ID card (not his badge, just a city ID card), the other cop looked at the card and said, "oh, I'm sorry, have a nice day" (cliff notes, it's basically what happened, I just cannot remember exactly what was said). The guy I was with said, " you can give me a ticket, I was speeding." other cop, "no, be careful". I know it happens, I made the city ID badges for the locals here "in case they got pulled over" (I actually copied a retired Phoenix PD Card for the design).
I thinking that you have never been pulled over and had your rights violated, never been pulled over, asked to step out of the car, (first words), Thrown on a hot hood, handcuffed, and searched, as a random stop, all before you could even ask what the problem was.
As far as being worried about being shot, just about every time I have got pulled over, as the cop talked to me he always made a big show of unsnapping his holster, and hanging on to the butt of his gun. We have a cop one town over that we are taking money bets on when he shoots the first person. People on both sides of the badge worry about being shot.
Like I said, you are probably the exception, I am not attacking you, this thread is about what we are running into. Perhaps instead of attacking us (verbally) try to help us out, spread the word through the brotherhood that people, good people are being abused by other officers. We are outside of the system, I can walk into a police station, and report that I was abused by an officer, even fill out a report, but do you think that report will ever get past the First desk? It's probably file 13'd before I pull out of the parking lot.
Something else, I'm sure I am not the only one that noticed you are the only Officer that is standing up for the police in here. That takes something, and I can respect it.
Apparently I've struck a nerve. Thank God I didn't do it while you had me stopped on the side of the road. I'm sorry for offending you. Please don't kill me.
(grins) I think most should ask them selfs. Could they do a cops job? I could not. Fear of the unknown would most likely not be good for who ever I had to pull over.
Having to deal with the police most my life. I have seen both good and bad. I know many. Most the city cops around here don't mess with me much anymore. Unless a rookie. 15 so years ago I ended up blowing some fools ass away after him breaking into my house. There was 2 of them. In that time, it put me and kind of a rage. I don't remember much. But I think I stood behind the front door. Grabbing Officer Joe Riles. as he enter my house. (Office Riles Statement in court) But I ended up with this guys head in a arm lock. A 357 stuck into his ear. I really didn't wake up tell I heard him say. (I'm a police officer. Drop your weapon) I said, You understand i'm the owner of this house. 1st thing he ask me. Are you hurt? I dropped my gun and Strong emotion came over me. It could have just as easy gone the other way. Spending a little time in jail. 3 years of off in on court. 2 other Dick Cops trying to rail road me into hell for keeping my house safe and the ones that live here. The court sucks. When they get you there. All they want is $$$$$. Then they be happy.
I felt really bad for Officer Joe Riles. He pretty much saved my ass from going to jail. The big house. I have made friends with Joe. He never said a word about me almost blowing my own arm away. Even tho he had truly soiled his pants.
Yes I know he was a marine. Once again, sadly this stuff went over you guys heads evidently.
No it didn't. It was irrelevant to the current portion of this discussion. Been cussed at? Yep--lots of times--spit at and on. Had people stand 2 inches in front of my face and call me things this forum's software will edit out. Had drinks thrown on me. Had my mother called a whore. All from civilians, while I wore a Marine uniform, walking shore patrol in a 1/2 dozen different cities where I was stationed here in the states. No--I didn't like it. NO, I didn't say a word or show anger or resentment, and certainly didn't resond in kind and DAMN sure didn't do anything physical in return. Those people, were the people in WE, THE PEOPLE..." whose constitution I swore to protect with my life if need be. The same people who I worked FOR. The same people who paid my salary. Those were the people, that I swore to protect and to serve--the bad along with the good, no matter what they said or did, and this was all in the 6 years AFTER I went into to combat for these same people. Nowhere, in any Marine regulation, will you find that THOSE people are to show me or my uniform any smidgen of respect, but I can assure you, had I shown them disrespect, arrogance, anger or any form of demeaning gestures, I would find myself on the carpet with my hat in my hand in front of my commanding officer looking at an Art 134. I'm pretty sure, it's still that way today. A Marine, in or out of uniform, in the public arena is to conduct himself in a way to show no discredit to the Corps, and that means keeping their emotions, fears, and anger inside at all times. Those people, are our boss. They are why we exist.
1. I think you are taking all of this as a personal attack on you. I believe it was even said before in this thread that you (from what you had said) were the exception to the rule that we run into. We are not attacking you man.
2. This thread is not about all police officers being bad, that has been said several times in here too. I'll admit, I think 90% or more are bad cops, still, not all.
3. How old were you when you decided to become a police officer? I'm betting pretty young. Joined the academy at 18? How old are you now?
Brad
my answers to your statements. 1. Its not personal, it just amazes me how ignorant these statements truly are. 2. 90%? how sad for you. That is very a delusional number considering the nation as a whole. Maybe in your small town, but that's a small pond in a big ocean. 3. You cant join until your 21, cant own a handgun at 18. I was 24 turning 25 when I joined. Plenty old enough to know what I was doing.
sadly most the comments in this thread is what I would expect to hear from naive 18 year old kids in High school, not grown men.
[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 02-22-2010).]
No it didn't. It was irrelevant to the current portion of this discussion. Been cussed at? Yep--lots of times--spit at and on. Had people stand 2 inches in front of my face and call me things this forum's software will edit out. Had drinks thrown on me. Had my mother called a whore. All from civilians, while I wore a Marine uniform, walking shore patrol in a 1/2 dozen different cities where I was stationed here in the states. No--I didn't like it. NO, I didn't say a word or show anger or resentment, and certainly didn't resond in kind and DAMN sure didn't do anything physical in return. Those people, were the people in WE, THE PEOPLE..." whose constitution I swore to protect with my life if need be. The same people who I worked FOR. The same people who paid my salary. Those were the people, that I swore to protect and to serve--the bad along with the good, no matter what they said or did, and this was all in the 6 years AFTER I went into to combat for these same people. Nowhere, in any Marine regulation, will you find that THOSE people are to show me or my uniform any smidgen of respect, but I can assure you, had I shown them disrespect, arrogance, anger or any form of demeaning gestures, I would find myself on the carpet with my hat in my hand in front of my commanding officer looking at an Art 134. I'm pretty sure, it's still that way today. A Marine, in or out of uniform, in the public arena is to conduct himself in a way to show no discredit to the Corps, and that means keeping their emotions, fears, and anger inside at all times. Those people, are our boss. They are why we exist.
this is my point Mary Jane. You cant stay on focused on the conversation at hand. The whole reason I brought up the Marine who doesn't like what they say scenario, was an example of why I am defending Officers in this thread. I said I dont take it personal, I just dont like to hear untrue statements being generalized, just like a marine wouldn't like to be generalized.
Some how you took that and turned it into " I was spit on and yelled at, and I never showed disrespect". Ah.....ok. thats great. thats NOT what I was talking about, nor did I EVER say that an officer should show any form of disrespect to the public. Your the one going off track here. Can you not see my point? For the same REASONS a Marine would not like to be slandered unjustly, is the SAME REASONS a cop would not like to be slandered unjustly.
Instead, you hear what you wanted and twisted to be all about you, and how you never showed any disrespect after being disrespected. Great, good for you, but that has nothing to do with what I just said.
[This message has been edited by NickD3.4 (edited 02-22-2010).]
" Fools rush in, wherewise men fear to tread..."....and maybe I am being a fool, but having deliberated long and hard, I am going to hit 'submit'.
Wow..and I thought lynch-mobs were a thing of the past. Excuse my naivety, but there must be something terribly wrong in the USA to make people so dreadfully aggressive towards a fellow human being who does a thankless task trying to maintain Law and Order. Obviously, I have never lived in the States and had to witness this kind of total disrespect from BOTH sides to each other, and the barely masked hatred for a Uniform, let alone the human being wearing it. I trust that all you people who express such distatse, for want of a better word, for a uniform will naturally sort out all the problems in Life that MOST people will be grateful for a Police Force to take care of. Once again, the curse of the Media, and its all-encompassing desire to print as much bitterness and hatred as is possible from every corner of the World has created this type of unrest. It makes everybody on BOTH sides of this argument believe this happens daily in their own environment, when in reality it DOESN'T. The Media takes great delight in crucifying ALL the Police in the WORLD as being arrogant, aggressive and downright unpleasant, and every member of thr generalPublic is a total degenerate gun-toting cop-killing maniac. Again, not true, if you really think about it.All the mass hysteria we experience every day in the News: feeling grief for the death of somebody they never knew on the other side of the country; going into mourning on their behalf. The sadness and outrage at a mass killing which just simply is so rare, and yet the Media focus on it with such intensity we begin to believe it happens every day in our own local School, University or High Street. The media is destroying our rationale that has brought us ALL through times of terror, fear, unhappiness and grief, BECAUSE we never knew of the MINISCULE amount of bad behaviour, hatred and terrib deeds against other Human Beings. You are all ending up carrying an almost irrational fear and loathing for others totally undeserved in 90% of the time. ONE bad Cop and his actions in Vermont, for example, suddenly affect millions of people who happen to read or hear about it, in places so far away they would otherwise not have heard about it, suddenly impinges on hundreds of thousands, if not MILLIONS of people, who suddenly become more fearful of ordinary people going about their work, or private life, or recreaction, for NO reason at all. You are , unfortunately, becoming victims of an increasingly disturbing media system, and it turns into this type of thread, totally un-neccessarily. I gues I am going to get flamed to a nice state of 'well-cooked steak' now. But please excuse the naivety which you are going to label me with. Again I will reiterate that maybe I am speaking out of ignorance of the true level of dislike, even hatred I am reading here, and not understanding. But believe me, what worries ME is that here in Spain, and also in the UK when I was there, there was NOTHING like this disturbing mutual distrust there OR here. Except amongst those who actually DESERVE to distrust the Law. BLAME THE BLASTED MEDIA, A TINY MINORITY IN BOTH THE GENERAL PUBLIC, AND LAW ENFORCEMENT, NOT INDIVIDUALS. YOU ARE CHASING GHOSTS WHICH, IN 90% OF EVENTS SIMPLY AREN'T THERE. Otherwise, Anarchy will cruise the streets in EVERY city in the World. Or perhaps I am fortunate to never have encountered ANY single Policeman who just wanted to bust my head because he felt like it. When I see people avidly searching out every single derogatory report about the Police and their ctions to substantiate their apparent anger and dislike of a body of people who, I am sure, are NOT all tarred by the same brush, I get very disturbed at what creates that kind of mindset in an ordinary, decent person. when Isee people here who I love joining forces together in a verbal lynch-mob against a fellow member because of the profession he has chosen, and BECAUSE the media have singled out that particular profession to stir up the very hatred which appears all too often, and mostly unjustifiably, then I am truly concerned that we are becoming more and more unbalanced. Especially when ONE particular Member is in a profession which comes in for equally as much slander and abuse as the one HE is now villifying;and yet he chooses to defend HIS profession with as much alacrity and force as Nick is here. Wear BOTH shoes of each profession, before attacking EITHER, and maybe we can see just how unbalanced our views become. Don, as for the foul abuse and attacks you suffered from civilians when you wore your uniform with pride...I personally could NEVER have born them with the aplomb you showed. But I can't help wondering if the revulsion you felt then, against those who defiled you, is subconsciously being redirected against somebody ELSE whom you dislike and mistrust as much as those who insulted and abused YOU all those years ago? It is a pet belief amongst People who study human behaviour that a child who suffered mistreatment in their childhood, will end up more often than not behaving in the selfsame way as their persecutors did to THEM, against people who resemble THEMSELVES as they were as the victim, by deed and behaviour later on in life. That kind of contained anger and fury has to come out. It is like a virus in a computer. Eventually you will have to kill it or let it out before it consumes YOU on the inside. If that IS true, perhaps the same can be applied to your expressed dislike and distrust of the Police? You are getting your own back on those people , by behaving in exactly the same way as THEY did then, toward YOU?
IP: Logged
05:58 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
I am 22 and have been pulled over 6 times in my short time of driving and only gotten one ticket.
The first was when I was 16, just got my liscense and I had a short fuse. I got PO'ed at my parents one evening and tore out of the driveway and down the street. Got clocked 2 blocks from home doing 52 in a 25. The officer was pretty reasonable and only cited me for 48, this way my lisccense would only be suspended for 60 days rather than 90.
The next time I guess someone called reporting a dark car with lights in the back reading "Pontiac" driving irratically (quite the detailed description). I got pulled over and asked if I knew anything of this report but I had not been on the road for more than 5 min, car wasn't even warm yet. The officer let me go after no more than 3 mins.
The third time I was driving down a poorly maintained 2 lane state route with a very strong cross wind. An officer had been following me for 30 miles and eventually pulled me over. When I asked why he said I was swerving. I asked him if I ever crossed the center line and he answered no. Then I guess I decided to be a smart *ss and he threatened to write me a ticket for disorderly conduct.
The fourth time was at 3:30 am and I got pulled over for a "noisey exhaust." I was given a field sobriety test and a breath test when the guy was not satisfied with that. Mind you I was 19 and had not had anything to drink all night.
The 5th time I was on my motorcycle with a group of other riders. One of the guys in our group did a wheelie past the officer so he ended up running all of our plates. No one got ticketed.
The 6th time I was on my bike again and I was swerving to clean off my tires before a corner. A cop coming th eother way saw me and pulled me over, I guess he though I was going to wreck or something. When he walked up to me I asked if he got me for a seat belt violation. He laughed and asked what I was swerving for. When I told him he let me go on my way.
All in all, I have only encountered one officer I would consider a d*ck. I probably brought that on to myself though for being a smart *ss.
IP: Logged
12:08 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
Guys in a bar are not on the public payroll. They do not work for me and the rest of the taxpayers. To protect and to serve.
So police officers are beholden to take a citizen's verbal abuse as part of their "service"?
edit. Having read your post about serving SP in the Marines, I understand better your outlook. That doesn't make me any more secure about lipping off to a cop, though.
[This message has been edited by WhiteDevil88 (edited 02-22-2010).]
IP: Logged
12:17 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
I have had my fair share of run-ins with the police. I have not acted a fool when in contact with them. and have been treated fairly every time. That's not to say I didn't go to jail or get ticketed, that is to say I have never been abused, lied on, or blatantly disrespected by them.
It is like being a kid & getting asswhoopin's from my Dad for doing wrong. I got away with WAY more then I got whoopin's for!
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 02-22-2010).]
this is my point Mary Jane. You cant stay on focused on the conversation at hand.
More arrogance--more condenscending language and attitude. --sorry--the 1st amendment is still in effect as far as I know Officer.
quote
The whole reason I brought up the Marine who doesn't like what they say scenario, was an example of why I am defending Officers in this thread. I said I dont take it personal, I just dont like to hear untrue statements being generalized, just like a marine wouldn't like to be generalized.
Some how you took that and turned it into " I was spit on and yelled at, and I never showed disrespect". Ah.....ok. thats great. thats NOT what I was talking about, nor did I EVER say that an officer should show any form of disrespect to the public.
Really?--what's this?
quote
Problem is, some people think they should have the right to mouth off like a douche bag, and expect the officer to treat them as if their harmless, even though their being verbally aggressive.
As I said, I have to wonder if you even read what you post.
quote
Your the one going off track here. Can you not see my point? For the same REASONS a Marine would not like to be slandered unjustly, is the SAME REASONS a cop would not like to be slandered unjustly.
Instead, you hear what you wanted and twisted to be all about you, and how you never showed any disrespect after being disrespected. Great, good for you, but that has nothing to do with what I just said.
No, it's definitly not about me--but YOU quoted MY post, knowing I am Marine, and brought up the USMC vs civilian verbal abuse examples and asked several questions. Do not do that, if you do not want me to bluntly and immediately answer those questions. When someone asks me a question, I always try to answer that question--directly. I don't brush it aside, I don't beat around the bush with it. I don't ignore it. I assume people ask questions because they want them answered. I did. Since you quoted my post, knew I was USMC, and asked the questions specifically regarding and conected to USMC, I assumed they were NOT rhetorical questions.
This is for both Nick in Spain and Nick the police officer:
As NickD3.4 said, if one becomes verbally abusive, doesn't sit nicely in their car with both hands on the wheel, they can expect the officer to have a different attitude. No, we should not expect that.
For the large majority of us here in the US, our personal interactions with the police are comparatively amicable, considering that those interaction usually costs us--the public--some money in fines. LEOs are the means the justice system uses to enable the judges and juries to decide innocence and guilt. No big thing. No reason to get upset with the officer. Not the best of examples perhaps, but it's kinda like the girl that comes out and reads my electric meter each month. No reason for me to go off on her about my energy costs. She's doing a job, that I indirectly pay her to do via my monthly payment, which both she and I understand. Indirectly, she is an employee of mine via those people who buy the product her company sends down the wires into our homes. Her wages are passed down to me as part of the costs of business. I pay her wages--or a small % of them. A good employee/employer relationship. BUT, if she comes out, and is arrogant and aloof to me about how much electricity I am using, and how much her company is going to soak me for, then I might tend to not be so understanding of things. My neighbor up the road otoh, berates that girl every time she comes in the yard over his energy costs--I've been there and heard the conversation. She just smiles and goes on about her business as if he just said "hello--how ya doing?" Her attitude doesn't change. I asked her about it the last time she read my meter, and she said "That's his right" Again--not the best example perhaps, but you get the gist of it.
Since few or any of us have ever been beaten, tazed, or shot by a police officer, we get our less-than-desireable impressions of the contemporary law enforcement community from 2 -3 sources. 1. Direct interactions with officers via traffic stops, calls for assistance to our homes, and non"official" social meetings with LEOs out in public--whether they be on or off duty. 2. News reports. 3. Internet boards such as this one.
It is a total public relations failure on the part of law enforcement. As I told NickD3.4 several months ago, I have seen a decided shift in the attitudes of far too many police officers over the last decade or so. While I guess there has always been a very small # of officers with what appears as a superiority complex through out history, that % is now much much higher. The responses on this board and in this thread verify that. There has been a decided and obvious change in attitudes from one of respect, to one of aloofness, elitism, and arrogance toward the public that pays their salaries. I have had 2 interactions with LEOs in the last 10 years, one in San Angelo--one here in East Texas--both involved no problem on my part. Both times, the officers were rude, arrogant, and very unpolite toward me, and I vowed never again, to call them to offer information about criminal or dangerous circumstances. One, was to report military smoke grenades present in a dumpster by my apt in San Angelo, the other was to report a vagrant who had set up housekeeping on the land accross the highway from me in the forest, and had tresspassed on my property, coming to my front door when he knew that I was not home, because my vehicle was not there. I had spoken to this guy, and had at first, given him the benefit of doubt, being a young guy down on his luck (or so I thought) but had warned him to never cross the road and enter my property. He ignored that a week or so later, climbed over the gate with the no tresspassing sign on it, and came to the door and he is damn lucky Jane didn't shoot him dead on the doorstep. She told him to leave and not come back. When I got home, and Jane told me of it, I called the sheriff's dept, telling them the story. Said someone would be right out, and I told them I would meet them at the front gate. The car pulls up, driver and passenger. Passenger rolls down his window, sticks his hand out, and motions me to come over. I'm still inside my gate, and he says "come here--I want to talk to you if you're Mr. York". I open the gate, walk out, and it is the County Sheriff himself, and his driver. He never opened the door or got out. He was arrogant, rude in his demeanor, condensending toward me for evidently bothering him and never said thank you, kiss my butt or anything else for my call. The guy was arrested by a deputy a few weeks later. Turned out, the vagrant was a crack head on probation, and wanted for theft charges.
The San Angelo city police officer was the same way. When he drove up and got out, I identified myself as the caller--giving my name. extended my hand, and he looked at it in disgust, pulled out a pen and notepad, and started questioning me about where the grenades came from. It was hot, and he was obviously not happy about having to stand out in the West texas sun. When I explained that I saw the grenades in the dumpster when I dumped my trash, and that kids fregquently climbed in the dumpsters. He walked over, looked in, and then asked ME--the civilian-- to get them out for him. So, I climbed my big ass in the damn dumpster did his job for him, and got them out. He opened his trunk, told me to put them in, got in his car and left.
preface. Now, there is no bigger opponent of drug use/trafficking than myself. I won't say they should be tied to a chainlink fence and the flesh flayed from their backs, but it's an interesting option. There has, in the last few months, been a controversy in the Houson area between Houston's DA's office/Mayor/city council versus HPD. The DA's office, issued a directive to HPD to cease making arrests based on "trace evidence" in crack cocain. Reasons: 1. The city's lab is innundated with this type of evidence processing. Months behind. 2. The jails are overflowing with arrested prisioners and is costing a bundle of $ while awaiting trial. 3. The trace amts are so small, that if a defense attorney requests a sample to be examined by an independant lab, there is often not enough left after the cities lab gets thru and the case gets thrown out because the defendant didn't get the opportunity to "prove his innocence"--not that he should have to based on "innocent until proven...".
Whether i agree with the directive is irrelevant. Here's where the controversy comes in. The DA, backed by the city issues the directive, so you would think that would be the end of it. It wasn't. The police chief, many rank and file officers, and the police union come out publicly on a radio talk show saying if this is the case, they will stop ALL drug related arrests and evidence gathering, regardless of the amts or the severity involved. I don't live in Houston, but I listened to that program while on a trip down to Galveston, and found some of the caller's responses incredulous. They said if they can't arrest on trace, they won't arrest anyone on any drug charges at all, that it is within their discretion just as it is to ignore or just issue a warning in the case of minor traffic violations. IOW, they are arrogantly telling the city and DA that they are not going to be told how to do their job. Many officers and many citizens called in to that program, and the overwhelming response from the citizens was one of amazement that the police would be arrogant enough to think they had the authority to counter the directive, while also understanding the police dept's dismay at it the directive. This argument went back and forth a couple of weeks till the mayor and city council called the HPD chief, asst chief, and the police union rep into a closed door meeting. When it was over, the police chief just said the issue was resolved and they would comply with the directive. The council and DA's office were a little more forthcoming with what transpired. The city told the police chief and union, that the police were employees and worked for the city, for the people, and if they did not comply, the city would sue the police dept under "blah blah blah" statute and begin recall procedures against the Chief. (elected position in Houston). IOW, the police had a job to do, and they WERE going to continue to do their full job within the parameters set down by the city--not by their own definitions.
Contrast those 3 scenarioss with one I had quite a few years prior to the grenade incident. About 15 years ago-maybe more, I'm sailing along on an open West Texas state highway about 11pm, trying to get back home from a weekend visit with my father. The lights come on behind me, Texas Highway Patrol-DPS. The officer walks up, Said something to the effect of "Good evening--I'm (rank and name) could I see your license please?" as I'm digging for my wallet and insurance papers and registration. He looks at them, explains he clocked me at 72 in a 65. My honest response: "I thought the speed limit went back to 70 mph when they changed it a couple of months ago". "No sir it went to 65 at night" "Well, I'm glad you stopped me then, because I never realized that." He looks in the back of my Cherokee, sees about 40 loaves of bread and pastries, and asks what they are. I explained my father buys racks and racks from the day old bread store and he always loads me down with them when I get ready to come home and that I usually stop at the 1st dumpster I pass and throw it all away. The trooper asks if he can look at them, and I said sure. I assumed he was thinking drugs but had no problem with him looking in my vehicle and opened the rear hatch, he looks at them and laughs. Wrote me a warning ticket even tho i admitted I was in the wrong. I thanked him, told him to be careful and we both went on our way.
For about the first 35-40 years of my adult life--that's the way it went in every encounter I personally had or saw as a passenger no matter what the infraction was and no matter what the driver may have said. All that has changed way too often nowdays.
Remembering that most people don't have direct and personal abuse issues with police, and that all this is really a perception issue within the public--created by a change of attitude by the police toward the public within the last 20 yrs or so: Of those above scenarios, which among them, do you think--(and this is a question I ask because I'd like see an answer from both Nicks)--will most stick in my mind as being representative of current police attitudes?
As NickD3.4 said, if one becomes verbally abusive, doesn't sit nicely in their car with both hands on the wheel, they can expect the officer to have a different attitude. No, we should not expect that.
A note: Even in combat, in a war zone, in active operations, I did NOT have the authority to be verbally abusive toward the civilian population, and certainly not able to shoot them just because I thought they might be a threat to me even tho the civilians and enemy often dressed exactly the same--I better be damn sure before i pulled that rigger even if it meant putting myself in increased mortal danger. The military has long understood, that to really win a war, the civilian population must be--at all times-- treated with the utmost respect regardless of what they might say to you or how they might act toward you. I had to be damn sure my targets were combatants--not "think"--not "maybe"--not "perhaps"--not "could be"--not "might be". Damn sure.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-22-2010).]
So police officers are beholden to take a citizen's verbal abuse as part of their "service"?
edit. Having read your post about serving SP in the Marines, I understand better your outlook. That doesn't make me any more secure about lipping off to a cop, though.
I don't lip off to cops--and I strongly disapprove of it--not to mention that it's counter productive, but when it happens, a police officer has to understand, that it is fully within that person's constitutional right to express their views, and he should be prepared to accept even personal verbal attacks. The very thing they swear to protect and uphold guarantees that right. It's ugly, it's unfortunate, but it comes with the job they signed on for. There are lots and lots of good dedicated police officers out there, but "lots" is not good enough, because they have within themselves, the ability to take life and ruin lives.
IP: Logged
02:00 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Here is a video of a Maine State Trooper being verbally abused by a citizen he just stopped for speeding. Watch how he treats this nut. It ain't pretty. http://video.google.com/goo...=8565771211253240212
[This message has been edited by avengador1 (edited 02-22-2010).]
IP: Logged
02:14 PM
GS Jon Member
Posts: 974 From: San Antonio, TX Registered: May 2005
Nick3.4, I support you. Don't let the vocal tinfoil hat wearing minority get you down.
One comment that caught my eye was comparing a Marine to a cop. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Only if the Armed Forces were fighting one-another, where attacks from a fellow Marine, Airman, Soldier or Sailor at any time would that statement hold any water.
As for being polite, everyone should be polite to one-another REGARDLESS of authority. Saying it's your right to be verbally abusive towards officers and they should just sit there and take it is the most socially regressive BS I've seen today. Would it kill you people to act with a bit of civility towards one-another? Yeah, it goes both ways. Didn't your mommas ever teach you that two wrongs do NOT make a right?
Yes, you're a citizen of the United States, big whoop. That doesn't give you the right to mouth off to everyone you disagree with without repercussion. If you do that to some random guy on the street, you'd likely be left spitting out a few of your teeth at the end of the encounter. Don't act like a douchebag towards a cop because you know you can hide behind your "safety blanket" knowing the cop has to treat you a certain way. That's the act of a coward!
Nick3.4, I support you. Don't let the vocal tinfoil hat wearing minority get you down.
One comment that caught my eye was comparing a Marine to a cop. Sorry, doesn't work that way.
It was not I that broached that subject.
quote
Only if the Armed Forces were fighting one-another, where attacks from a fellow Marine, Airman, Soldier or Sailor at any time would that statement hold any water.
Explain please.
quote
As for being polite, everyone should be polite to one-another REGARDLESS of authority. Saying it's your right to be verbally abusive towards officers and they should just sit there and take it is the most socially regressive BS I've seen today. Would it kill you people to act with a bit of civility towards one-another? Yeah, it goes both ways. Didn't your mommas ever teach you that two wrongs do NOT make a right?
Yes, you're a citizen of the United States, big whoop. That doesn't give you the right to mouth off to everyone you disagree with without repercussion. If you do that to some random guy on the street, you'd likely be left spitting out a few of your teeth at the end of the encounter. Don't act like a douchebag towards a cop because you know you can hide behind your "safety blanket" knowing the cop has to treat you a certain way. That's the act of a coward!
I agree for the most part, but again, the random guy on the corner is not a public servant/employee being paid by the person he just relieved of a few teeth. Like it or not, the general public holds police officers to a higher standard.
quote
Blanket statement cop-bashing makes me ill.
I agree, but then, so does the blanket assertion I've heard that all civilians are potential threats and should be treated accordingly. Some are, but they are very much in the minority % wise.
Nick3.4, I support you. Don't let the vocal tinfoil hat wearing minority get you down.
One comment that caught my eye was comparing a Marine to a cop. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Only if the Armed Forces were fighting one-another, where attacks from a fellow Marine, Airman, Soldier or Sailor at any time would that statement hold any water.
As for being polite, everyone should be polite to one-another REGARDLESS of authority. Saying it's your right to be verbally abusive towards officers and they should just sit there and take it is the most socially regressive BS I've seen today. Would it kill you people to act with a bit of civility towards one-another? Yeah, it goes both ways. Didn't your mommas ever teach you that two wrongs do NOT make a right?
Yes, you're a citizen of the United States, big whoop. That doesn't give you the right to mouth off to everyone you disagree with without repercussion. If you do that to some random guy on the street, you'd likely be left spitting out a few of your teeth at the end of the encounter. Don't act like a douchebag towards a cop because you know you can hide behind your "safety blanket" knowing the cop has to treat you a certain way. That's the act of a coward!
Blanket statement cop-bashing makes me ill.
Thanks GSJon, I appreciate that. Common sense isnt common anymore.
" She just smiles and goes on about her business as if he just said "hello--how ya doing?" Her attitude doesn't change. I asked her about it the last time she read my meter, and she said "That's his right" Again--not the best example perhaps, but you get the gist of it. " I doubt very much that she thought she could possibly get shot to death, Don. probably none of her colleagues either. You are right it was avery poor example
I have enormous respect for the Armed Forces personnel, and I have often expressed my admiration for you. You are different to the average Joe Public, Don. You have undergone rigorous training, You have been shot at. But surely that goes part and parcel with the job? I wasn't aware that Policemen should expect to get shot at, as a way of life. They are NOT fighting a War..or at least shouldn't be. And it is not their fault that they DO get shot at, and that they are fearful of that every day. bearing in mind that almost everybody and their dog nowadays carries some form of armament. And just as YOU said, when as a Marine you didn't know who was your enemy and who wasn't, neither do they. In that situation, I honestly can't believe you weren't in a continual state of alert, and doubtful of everybody around you who WASN'T a fellow marine. But let's go back to my point in my original post. THE MEDIA has put it into EVERY cop's mind, and his wife and kids too, that they could well be shot any, or every day that comes along. They will have the same alertness as YOU did when you were walking amongst civilians who MIGHT be enemy. They have come to EXPECT to be shot at, it seems to me, and that is a terrible mental strain for anybody to go to work with every day. Again...I have been stopped so many times by the Police as I drove home from gigs late at night. I have NEVER, EVER met a Policeman who did not respond to a polite smile, and an obvious attitude wanting to help them in their job, get on with it, and get on my way, and for them to continue with THEIR job. If I was so brain dead as to spout off my mouth from minute one of the encounter; was difficult to deal with; obstructional and abusive, JUST because he was a cop...then I have only myself to blame. I doubt any Policeman earns enough money to truly justify their work nowadays. I don't see the point in making his work even harder for him by being , basically, stupid in my manner. Maybe, as I already said, the things that happen in America are very much different to what we come to expect in Western Europe. I don't know. But I hope I didn't come across as abusive to YOU in my comments. I just think some people make too many demands on ordinary folk doing a very difficult job. Even MORE difficult since they have been forced to adopt the role of collecting money/fines for the City to waste. But NONE of us can have it both ways, being cops or civilians. The media just fans the flames with glee. And too many people get upset about stuff they broadcast or print, and begin to believe it is happening EVERY DAY, EVERYWHERE.. I feel the blame lies further up the chain of command; beyond the ordinary cop on the street; beyond their direct superiors, right up to the top of the ladder. THEY are the ones who demand too much from ordinary folk trying, as I said, to do a VERY difficult job. Nick
[This message has been edited by fierofetish (edited 02-22-2010).]
" She just smiles and goes on about her business as if he just said "hello--how ya doing?" Her attitude doesn't change. I asked her about it the last time she read my meter, and she said "That's his right" Again--not the best example perhaps, but you get the gist of it. " I doubt very much that she thought she could possibly get shot to death, Don. probably none of her colleagues either. You are right it was avery poor example
it is not their fault that they DO get shot at, and that they are fearful of that every day. bearing in mind that almost everybody and their dog nowadays carries some form of armament. And just as YOU said, when as a Marine you didn't know who was your enemy and who wasn't, neither do they. In that situation, I honestly can't believe you weren't in a continual state of alert, and doubtful of everybody around you who WASN'T a fellow marine.
I love how people read through this thread, and instantly assume that because a person had his rights stomped on by a Police Officer, that the person who was abused had to have earned it some way.
I'm sure it happens. But I showed no disrespect to anyone. I have a pretty good idea that Don doesn't either.
I have had good run in's with cops as well. Once I was pulled over in Texas for a headlight burned out, the State Trooper came up to the window, told me the headlight was out, and said I should get it fixed before I got to the next town since they were a known speedtrap.
I figure the way we are being attacked in here that I am just a scum that is getting what he deserves. You guys are probably right, I hope you don't become scum as well, because as you will find out, the majority of the Police do not care about your welfare, they only wanna catch bad guys. Once you start looking for "Bad" everywhere you start seeing bad in everything.
Since everyone here loves to tell stories about their encounters, here is one of mine.
I pulled a car over late at night for a headlight being out. I got out of my squad car and approached the drivers side of the vehicle. I began to speak to the man in the driver seat. He seemed timid and sketchy. I began to get that uneasy feeling as we spoke. A back up officer stopped and sat back while I continued to talk. I asked the man if he had any weapons in the vehicle, he paused, then said no. He began to move his hand toward the middle of the seat. I asked him again if he had any weapons, he hesitated again.......I looked and saw by his right hand, tucked between the seats, the handle of a psitol. I immediatly drew and asked him to step out of the vehicle.
I asked why he didn't tell me about the firearm, he had no good answer. The weapon was a .357 SIG. I ran the numbers, it came back clean. The other officer wanted to book him for having a concealed weapon. I argued and said no, under state law, the weapon was not concealed b/c it had been in a holster. Technically no major laws were broken. I gave the guy a warning, his weapon back (unlodoaded) and he went on his way.
This is why we must be caustious on stops. We have no idea who we have in the car. Timothy McCveigh was found and arrested on a routine traffic stop. For all a cop knows, they could be pulling over a terrorits, or a guy that just hacked up his wife. Demeanor is everything.
When I would stop a car, and the occupant would say "hello officer, just to let you know, I have a weapon in the vehicle". They immediatly are on my good side. If they were a bad guy, they would not have told me that. If they started mouthing off at me, and being a dick for no reason other then the fact I stopped them, yes, my alertness raises. How do I know what they will do. If their being hostile verbally, will they get out of the vehicle? are they armed? Are they mentally stable? These are questions that race through your mind and have only a few seconds to process. It should be expected that yelling or swearing at an officer is going to only raise tension.
Most officers that get shot are on routine routine traffic stops that start like any other. For the person getting stopped, it may be a pain in the butt for them, but they go home when its over, and possibly not get stopped for a long time after that. The officer has to stop cars every day they work hoping that there is not a weapon locked and loaded wating as they walk up.
Remember, you do have a right to be an ass if you want, however the officer has a right to use his discretion as well and give you a ticket instead of a warning.
the majority of the Police do not care about your welfare, they only wanna catch bad guys. Once you start looking for "Bad" everywhere you start seeing bad in everything.
Brad
and this is based on what? Limited interaction in a small podunk town? not very scientific. Glad we have a sociology expert such as your self to clear things up. If you actually took the time to investigate the day of an average officer across the WHOLE USA, you would see the truth.
Your right, myself and fellow officers carry stuff animals in the car for children b/c we dont care bout others. Thats why we take the time to put toys on the trunk. Maybe its just an evil ploy to trick parents so we can get close lol.
do you realize how foolish you sound? by the way Fieros are race cars! lol
This is why we must be caustious on stops. We have no idea who we have in the car. Timothy McCveigh was found and arrested on a routine traffic stop. For all a cop knows, they could be pulling over a terrorits, or a guy that just hacked up his wife. Demeanor is everything.
Right, there are bad guys out there, if I remember correctly there was one Timothy McVeigh, and millions of innocent people. What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
quote
Originally posted by NickD3.4: When I would stop a car, and the occupant would say "hello officer, just to let you know, I have a weapon in the vehicle". They immediatly are on my good side. If they were a bad guy, they would not have told me that. If they started mouthing off at me, and being a dick for no reason other then the fact I stopped them, yes, my alertness raises. How do I know what they will do. If their being hostile verbally, will they get out of the vehicle? are they armed? Are they mentally stable? These are questions that race through your mind and have only a few seconds to process. It should be expected that yelling or swearing at an officer is going to only raise tension.
I guarantee you that if I was pulled over, and said "Just want you to know I have a gun in here." that (in order of occurrence) At least one gun would be drawn on me, I would be yelled at to get out of the car by opening the door from the outside, and made to lie on the ground until I was handcuffed, this would all be done "for their protection" but would also open the doors to ticket me for any number of things, from resisting arrest, to having a concealed weapon (here is it's not displayed on the dash it's concealed.)
quote
Originally posted by NickD3.4: Most officers that get shot are on routine routine traffic stops that start like any other. For the person getting stopped, it may be a pain in the butt for them, but they go home when its over, and possibly not get stopped for a long time after that. The officer has to stop cars every day they work hoping that there is not a weapon locked and loaded wating as they walk up.
Right, I work in health care, I change diapers, and stomy bags on the elderly, and disabled. I knew going in that I would get poo'd on every once in awhile, I can get any number of diseases, and in some case I have got physically hit by patients. I have walked out of work covered in Fecal matter. This I knew about before I went into the job, I hoped it wouldn't happen, but it did. Sure I'm not getting shot at, but we both knew what we were getting into when we started our jobs.
quote
Originally posted by NickD3.4: Remember, you do have a right to be an ass if you want, however the officer has a right to use his discretion as well and give you a ticket instead of a warning.
Who is this aimed at? Really it's kinda upsetting that the people in the thread that are complaining have (for the most part) said that they were polite, or not disrespectful to the offending party, but both Nicks are going on about being an ass, both not apparently bothering to read what we posted.
Like I posted a few pages back, I was told by the cop that arrested me that they (police) knew what was going on in their town, and they didn't need anyone telling them what is going on.
I listened, I have reported nothing. I will not ever again either.
and this is based on what? Limited interaction in a small podunk town? not very scientific. Glad we have a sociology expert such as your self to clear things up. If you actually took the time to investigate the day of an average officer across the WHOLE USA, you would see the truth.
Your right, myself and fellow officers carry stuff animals in the car for children b/c we dont care bout others. Thats why we take the time to put toys on the trunk. Maybe its just an evil ploy to trick parents so we can get close lol.
do you realize how foolish you sound? by the way Fieros are race cars! lol
I stand by my statement, and I am starting to view you differently as well.
If you think that just because I live in (as you put it) a "podunk town", than you are no different than the cops I am talking about.
Go ahead, set me into a profile. Don't take a second to think about my past.
FF: Every officer I have ever spoken with on a personal level Nick, told me that they had either already been shot at, or had come to expect to be shot at (or otherwise attacked), sometime in their carreer. This includes the machinist I worked with in San Angelo that left that job for the academy and became a SA city policeman, and 2 of my nephews here in East Texas. One is presently a patrolman with Baytown PD with about 10 yrs total service and the other was a full time uniformed officer with Liberty County sheriff's dept for about 5 years until he took a job with Exxon. According to them, and a few others I have talked to, expecting to be shot at does, unfortunately, go part and parcel with the job nowdays.
As far as my service goes, ---no, I did not walk around in a continuous state of alert or fear--you simply cannot do that 24/7. You learn early on, to accept that possibility or probablity------- such is life--and you go on and do your job. When it happens it happens--I knew the risks going in.
You going to answer the question I asked?
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 02-22-2010).]
Since everyone here loves to tell stories about their encounters, here is one of mine.
I pulled a car over late at night for a headlight being out. I got out of my squad car and approached the drivers side of the vehicle. I began to speak to the man in the driver seat. He seemed timid and sketchy. I began to get that uneasy feeling as we spoke. A back up officer stopped and sat back while I continued to talk. I asked the man if he had any weapons in the vehicle, he paused, then said no. He began to move his hand toward the middle of the seat. I asked him again if he had any weapons, he hesitated again.......I looked and saw by his right hand, tucked between the seats, the handle of a psitol. I immediatly drew and asked him to step out of the vehicle.
I asked why he didn't tell me about the firearm, he had no good answer. The weapon was a .357 SIG. I ran the numbers, it came back clean. The other officer wanted to book him for having a concealed weapon. I argued and said no, under state law, the weapon was not concealed b/c it had been in a holster. Technically no major laws were broken. I gave the guy a warning, his weapon back (unlodoaded) and he went on his way.
This is why we must be caustious on stops. We have no idea who we have in the car. Timothy McCveigh was found and arrested on a routine traffic stop. For all a cop knows, they could be pulling over a terrorits, or a guy that just hacked up his wife. Demeanor is everything.
When I would stop a car, and the occupant would say "hello officer, just to let you know, I have a weapon in the vehicle". They immediatly are on my good side. If they were a bad guy, they would not have told me that. If they started mouthing off at me, and being a dick for no reason other then the fact I stopped them, yes, my alertness raises. How do I know what they will do. If their being hostile verbally, will they get out of the vehicle? are they armed? Are they mentally stable? These are questions that race through your mind and have only a few seconds to process. It should be expected that yelling or swearing at an officer is going to only raise tension.
Most officers that get shot are on routine routine traffic stops that start like any other. For the person getting stopped, it may be a pain in the butt for them, but they go home when its over, and possibly not get stopped for a long time after that. The officer has to stop cars every day they work hoping that there is not a weapon locked and loaded wating as they walk up.
Remember, you do have a right to be an ass if you want, however the officer has a right to use his discretion as well and give you a ticket instead of a warning.
A well handled stop that turned out well for all. The driver who failed to honestly answer your weapon question will likely remember it because of you being courteous and knowledgable of the conceal law, and will hopefully immediately answer the question differently next time.
I stand by my statement, and I am starting to view you differently as well.
If you think that just because I live in (as you put it) a "podunk town", than you are no different than the cops I am talking about.
Go ahead, set me into a profile. Don't take a second to think about my past.
I'm through with this.
Brad
LOL, I see, its ok for you to set cops into a "profile", but now that I have supposedly "profiled you" its a foul? Must be nice to live in a world of double standards. Feels nice being labeled doesnt it?
I stand by my statement, and I am starting to view you differently as well.
If you think that just because I live in (as you put it) a "podunk town", than you are no different than the cops I am talking about.
Go ahead, set me into a profile. Don't take a second to think about my past.
I'm through with this.
Brad
Im sorry Brad, I just looked up your town. You have my sympathies. One suggestion though, move in to the big world before you make such broad generalities. Your speaking about your experiences with cops in a town with a population of 749! My graduating senior class was more then that at 1,200!
My city population is 463,552. No wonder we have such different views on the realities of police and the public.
No offense, but you cant make a very sound assesment of this nations average Officer based on these figures. Here I was thinking you lived in a small town of say 5,000-10,00. a town of 749!!!!!!! I have no doubt the cops in your town are corupt assholes. probably never left the city their whole life, and were the ones who got picked on growing up. We live in two different worlds my friend.
Population in July 2008: 749. Population change since 2000: +3.9%
Wheaton MO DATA:
Males: 350 (46.7%) Females: 399 (53.3%) Median resident age: 31.5 years Missouri median age: 36.1 years
Zip codes: 64874.
Estimated median household income in 2008: $27,370 (it was $21,354 in 2000)
Are all cops bad - no, they are not. Of all the post on this topic, this is the one that pretty much sums it up for me
quote
Originally posted by Shyster: Fine. Take your own words to heart. Realize that people are people. Most of us don't wear uniforms. We're independent. We're unpredictable. We're not even all the same color. It's the best part of being free. You took the job on. You seem to have pride in wanting to do it well, and that I respect. But don't ever expect the rest of us to sacrifice our freedoms so that you can do your job. And please don't ever tell me to be subservient as a condition of gaining your polite attention. Most Americans, being people, and free people, at that, don't do "subservient" very well. People are People, after all. We all love to be free, even if we don't wear uniforms.
I can relate to this one as well:
quote
[B]Originally posted by Pyrthian:
nope - generally speaking - if you are caucasian - cops aint so bad. I know white folk dont like to hear this - but it is very true. africans NEVER get to just "move along". in fact, they dont even get to meet the officer until ANOTHER patrol car shows up for backup. at least around here. it even has a violation name now: DWB - driving while black.
you can call it BS all ya like - but just come by, and sit on the corner and watch it happen. yes, young drivers will get some hassle too, but nothing like negros. pulled over wholesale. especially if there is more than one in the car.
but, anyways - nope - I be a white boy, and cops are grand.
Hey, I know that corner. I will not regurgitate the whole story, but the short version; I was pulled over, and the cop told me I was pulled over because I looked like a suspect in a robbery. I asked what he looked like, and the response from the cop – he is black and young like you (I swear those were his exact words!) Now if that ain’t DWB …? The suspect got away on a bike, so why was I being pulled over in my 300ZX? (edit - the cop that pulled me over had me in cuffs and in the back of his car trying to get a confession out of me for 20 minutes before an eye witness cleared me.)
On the other hand, I've had good experiences as well. I had one where after doing a few engine mods to the Fiero, I took it out for a "spirited" test drive. I did not see a cop car a few cars behind be at a red light. When the light turned green I launched the Fiero pretty hard - enough for the cop to have reason to pull me over. Instead, he pulled along side of me blipped his siren to get my attention, smiled and motioned for me to slow down.
Anyway, I respect those that decide to do the cop's job, but having the uniform on does not mean I will treat you any differently as I would anyone else that I interact with on a daily basis. There are some good, and some bad – just like everyone. After all, we are all human, and have the same flaws. Right?
[This message has been edited by topcat (edited 02-22-2010).]
