Originally posted by SSG Larry: Just remember they call me Tator salad (Ron White).
, yeah, he got called out of the bar and got charged with public intoxication. He said he didn't want to be drunk in public, he wanted to be drunk in the bar, . I am not using that defense. Thanks for the well wishes.
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08:18 AM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Originally posted by cliffw: Heh, when asked for a copy of the audio/video evidence, as is my right, I was told there was not one in the file. The prosecuting attorney was not in the office when I went but they did set yet another jury by trial date for Feb. 20th.
This lower court only empanels six jurors. All I need to do is to plant doubt in one. My wife has been called for jury duty, . If they connect the relationship they will recuse her. It would be their mistake. I know my wife would recuse herself and if she didn't, I would do it. There is no way I am gonna have "hang 'em high" Cindi on my jury, . I finally got a copy of the audio/video evidence, a week or so ago. Again, the audio is non existent. Which would prove the arresting officer's sworn affidavit perjury. Could tampering with evidence be an issue ? When I watched the prosecuting attorney's audio/video evidence, the missing audio was a buzz noise. My copy is mute, in spots. I would win this unassisted if the audio was there. I lawyered up. I am gonna pay more than the fine would have cost. I want evidence investigation which I can not do. Perjury by an arresting officer and tampering with evidence is much more of a serious crime than public intoxication.
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11:04 AM
84fiero123 Member
Posts: 29950 From: farmington, maine usa Registered: Oct 2004
Originally posted by 84fiero123: I don’t blame you not wanting “hang em high” wife on the jury either. Mine would fry me if she got the chance as well.
No, that's not it. We have discussed jury summons before. She believes if you get arrested that there was a reason for it. Her co-workers gave her that name.
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11:41 AM
Raydar Member
Posts: 40925 From: Carrollton GA. Out in the... country. Registered: Oct 1999
This lower court only empanels six jurors. All I need to do is to plant doubt in one. My wife has been called for jury duty, . If they connect the relationship they will recuse her. It would be their mistake. I know my wife would recuse herself and if she didn't, I would do it. There is no way I am gonna have "hang 'em high" Cindi on my jury, . I finally got a copy of the audio/video evidence, a week or so ago. Again, the audio is non existent. Which would prove the arresting officer's sworn affidavit perjury. Could tampering with evidence be an issue ? When I watched the prosecuting attorney's audio/video evidence, the missing audio was a buzz noise. My copy is mute, in spots. I would win this unassisted if the audio was there. I lawyered up. I am gonna pay more than the fine would have cost. I want evidence investigation which I can not do. Perjury by an arresting officer and tampering with evidence is much more of a serious crime than public intoxication.
Good luck!
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03:40 PM
fierowitch Member
Posts: 716 From: 84fiero123's Caretaker Registered: Oct 2010
Originally posted by avengador1: Just remember to not act like a douche bag ....
You didn't get the memo ? That isthe plan.
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Originally posted by tbone42: Good luck Cliff.
Thanks. I'll need it. They are gonna want to drop these charges. I want my jury trial. I want to expose a lying cop. The prosecuting attorney's duty is justice for the citizens. I demand it !
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Originally posted by avengador1: Takes some to know one.
I gotta give you credit for admitting to be one. . . . ... oh, lest I forget, ... .
[This message has been edited by cliffw (edited 03-18-2012).]
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08:58 PM
Mar 28th, 2012
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
I got a call (message) from my attorney today. My pre-trial hearing was today. My attorney said I did not need to be there (I am out of town working). I was gonna take the day off and should have. They dropped the charges, . I just spoke in person with my attorney last Friday and told him I appreciated his pro bono offer and asked what his intentions were. He said to get the charges dropped. I told him that I would pay him and I did not want them dropped. He said we could do that. I am not sure what happened but this ain't over yet.
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01:41 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
I would just count it as a blessing and wrap it up, Cliff. I know you don't like the guy, but this is a great "out" for you, no need to stir up more trouble for yourself next time. Best idea is organize as many ppl as you can to vote against him and do what you can to be a thorn in his side without being noticed.
Congratulations.
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02:38 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Originally posted by avengador1: I know you wanted your day in court, but isn't this better? Doesn't it mean they didn't have enough evidence to prosecute you?
No to both questions. One thing it means is that you are the douche bag I said you were. For repeatedly using this instance in my life for deflection from my claim that you are a douche bag, Just like your buddy JazzMan ('cept I never said he was a douche bag). It means that they never had reason to arrest me. It means that a lying cop, who committed purjury in his arresting affidavit, might get away with it. It means other citizens may have the same thing happen to them by him. It means that the public intoxication charge can still be continued to be abused. They have all the evidence that they had and this has drug on for almost/more than two years, . I am pissed at my lawyer even though, well, I have not talked to him yet. His hands may have been tied. Prosecutorial discretion I am guessing. This ain't over yet.
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Originally posted by tbone42: I would just count it as a blessing and wrap it up, Cliff. I know you don't like the guy, but this is a great "out" for you, no need to stir up more trouble for yourself next time. Best idea is organize as many ppl as you can to vote against him and do what you can to be a thorn in his side without being noticed. Congratulations.
Thanks for the congratulations but no thanks. You've got the wrong cop. That was another one in which all charges were dropped. Now he is running for Sherriff. Neither were a blessing. They were/are an opportunity to do something about it and not just for me. The only reason zhit like this flies is because people let it stick to the wall. Though I do worry about ?stirring up more trouble? for me, it would only be because of rouge cops. I will not be afraid of being under the microscope. I don't care if I am in the telescope.
"Charges dropped" or the judge threw the case out? There is a difference. One involves the DA and the other the judge. The judge, is not your "enemy", and it would serve no purpose for you to try to get the case re-instated after he already threw it out--IF, that is your intention. Judges often toss cases if they see no merit in the charges and deem them not worth the court's time to hear.
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12:41 AM
PFF
System Bot
Shyster Member
Posts: 1085 From: Conroe, TX, USA Registered: Aug 2005
Originally posted by cliffw: I am pissed at my lawyer even though, well, I have not talked to him yet. His hands may have been tied.
Then try talking to him, first, before getting pissed at him. The DA decides to drop the charge, the charge is dropped.
You got representation for free, your lawyer is constrained by the way the system & the rules work, and now you're mad at the guy who represented you for free. Just makes me wish I had more clients like you. (NOT!!).
BTW, all he could do, at your instruction, would be to refuse any offers of plea-bargain. He can't control what the DA does, no matter how much you pay, or offer to pay, him.
I'm all for going after corrupt cops. But you have to pick battles you can win, and that means having control over the process. Your corrupt cop is running for sheriff? Support his opponent. Openly. Tell your story. Fight the good fight.
But don't disparage him of us who has fought your battle for you (for free!, no less), and who won the only available victory. That man's livelihood, the way he provides for his family, is to charge fees for his legal representation of others. He gains nothing, by taking your case for free, other than the thought that he is fighting a fight that needs fighting, a cause in which he believed.
I'm sorry you didn't have your day in court. It was not your attorney's fault.
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01:40 AM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
But don't disparage him of us who has fought your battle for you (for free!, no less), and who won the only available victory. That man's livelihood, the way he provides for his family, is to charge fees for his legal representation of others. He gains nothing, by taking your case for free, other than the thought that he is fighting a fight that needs fighting, a cause in which he believed.
.
Haven't you heard? Lawyers are all bad. They are the worst of the worst, they are a bain to the human existence. They are everything that is wrong with the legal system.
Unless ofcoarse they win for YOU huge amonts of money, and do everything for free, in less then a day, while not even requiring you to show up!
It always amazed me here when people would tear someone's occupation a new one, instead of the individual or the system that they deemed had not served them (gave them their way) as they thought it should have.
The above was not about you, Cliff. You have a right to know what went down. It's just that Lawyers and Mechanics always get a bum rap.
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 03-30-2012).]
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08:47 AM
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
Originally posted by Shyster: Then try talking to him, first, before getting pissed at him.
I did not do a good job conveying my feelings. I miss spoke. I am working long continual days and was tired and did not fully consider my post. I have too much respect for my attorney, professional and personal. I do realize that the prosecuting attorney can drop the charges and that is that. Or so she thinks. I demand to know why in light of our first pretrial when I groveled and asked her to do just that. For two years this has gone on. What changed ? That I had an attorney ? That she now thinks I can not be bamboozled ? From my point of view, she is a public servant, entrusted to ensure justice for my community. A lying cop who committed perjury in his arresting affidavit and may have tampered with evidence (the audio/video recording) is a much more serious threat to justice than a public intoxication charge. I want this issue addressed and am gonna demand it. I have questions and want answers. I want to confront my accuser, that cop.
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Originally posted by maryjane: "Charges dropped" or the judge threw the case out? There is a difference. One involves the DA and the other the judge. The judge, is not your "enemy", and it would serve no purpose for you to try to get the case re-instated after he already threw it out--IF, that is your intention. Judges often toss cases if they see no merit in the charges and deem them not worth the court's time to hear.
Good point Don. I might be having a conversation with the judge.
When I get more time, I will tell some more tales of other public intoxication arrests which should make you go .
she [the DA] is a public servant, entrusted to ensure justice for my community.
That, is NOT the DA's job--it is the judge's job. Just as it is the defense attorney's job to provide you with an adequate and legal defense according to the constitution of this state, it is the DA's job to prosecute according to evidence presented by investigative sources at his/her disposal. The judge presides over both, hopefully in an unbiased manner and makes sure neither defense or prosecution exceed their authority, thus ensuring Justice has been served for your community.
First I’m glad Cliff didn’t go to jail. Congradulations!
I’m not a lawyer but I do work with Public Safety Dispatchers all over the country so this is a question.
Cliff was arrested and now all his information is on file in databases such as NCIC.
The process for getting all that information removed is very expensive and time consuming from what I’ve heard. Is this a true statement? And if it is not removed it will show up every time there is a NCIC background request correct?
Another question: could Cliff’s arrest not be considered “false arrest” or wouldn’t that hold up?
First I’m glad Cliff didn’t go to jail. Congradulations!
I’m not a lawyer but I do work with Public Safety Dispatchers all over the country so this is a question.
Cliff was arrested and now all his information is on file in databases such as NCIC.
The process for getting all that information removed is very expensive and time consuming from what I’ve heard. Is this a true statement? And if it is not removed it will show up every time there is a NCIC background request correct?
Another question: could Cliff’s arrest not be considered “false arrest” or wouldn’t that hold up?
I can't answer all of that, just my end from when I was arrested. I could sue for false arrest, and likely win, but I would have to find a lawyer that is willing to take the case, and pay a lot of money just to take the case. In the end I would likely not win much of anything money wise making it a money pit for me.
Could be the wrong name, False imprisonment may be more correct, I believe you can be held for 24 hours with no legal recourse for no reasons at all, simply "suspicion" is enough. After that time it becomes false imprisonment.
Shyster, could you explain how this works in your State? I understand you would not be giving legal advise, simply stating what you understand the law to be.
Glad your "free" Cliff. For what it's worth.
Brad
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06:22 PM
Shyster Member
Posts: 1085 From: Conroe, TX, USA Registered: Aug 2005
Originally posted by CliffW: [S]he is a public servant, entrusted to ensure justice for my community.
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Originally posted by maryjane: That, is NOT the DA's job--it is the judge's job. Just as it is the defense attorney's job to provide you with an adequate and legal defense according to the constitution of this state, it is the DA's job to prosecute according to evidence presented by investigative sources at his/her disposal. The judge presides over both, hopefully in an unbiased manner and makes sure neither defense or prosecution exceed their authority, thus ensuring Justice has been served for your community.
Sorry, Don, but I beg to differ, at least so far as Texas is concerned.
Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, Art. 2.01:
"Each district attorney shall represent the State in all criminal cases in the district courts of his district and in appeals therefrom, except in cases where he has been, before his election, employed adversely. When any criminal proceeding is had before an examining court in his district or before a judge upon habeas corpus, and he is notified of the same, and is at the time within his district, he shall represent the State therein, unless prevented by other official duties. It shall be the primary duty of all prosecuting attorneys, including any special prosecutors, not to convict, but to see that justice is done. They shall not suppress facts or secrete witnesses capable of establishing the innocence of the accused."
(emphasis mine)
Every elected DA, County attorney (who sometimes have misdemeanor jurisdiction), and assistant DA or CA in Texas has to take an oath reflecting that duty: to see that justice is done. They don't always carry it through, but they are sworn to it, and it is their job.
[This message has been edited by Shyster (edited 03-30-2012).]
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08:36 PM
Shyster Member
Posts: 1085 From: Conroe, TX, USA Registered: Aug 2005
Originally posted by twofatguys: Could be the wrong name, False imprisonment may be more correct, I believe you can be held for 24 hours with no legal recourse for no reasons at all, simply "suspicion" is enough. After that time it becomes false imprisonment.
Shyster, could you explain how this works in your State? I understand you would not be giving legal advise, simply stating what you understand the law to be.
I'm hardly an authority on false arrest / imprisonment. The criminal work I do is all on the appellate side, and has largely involved trying to reverse the results obtained when over-zealous prosecutors ignore their duty to do justice.
So, the following is taken from an unpublished 2011 case out of the Beaumont court of appeals (Rogers v. Owings), with the citations removed from the text. It's not great, but it is a synopsis on what does, or does not, constitute "false arrest" in Texas:
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The right to be free from arrest without probable cause is a clearly established constitutional right. The constitutional claim of false arrest requires a showing of no probable cause. Post-hoc justifications based on facts later learned cannot support an earlier arrest. The facts must be particularized to the arrestee. We apply an objective standard, which means that we will find that probable cause existed if the officer was aware of facts justifying a reasonable belief that an offense was being committed, whether or not the officer charged the arrestee with that specific offense. Even law enforcement officials who ‘reasonably but mistakenly conclude that probable cause is present’ are entitled to immunity. A qualified immunity defense cannot succeed where it is obvious that a reasonably competent officer would find no probable cause, but if officers of reasonable competence could disagree on this issue, immunity should be recognized. Regardless of whether the officer had authority under state law to make the arrest, the arrest is valid under constitutional principles so long as the officer had probable cause to arrest.
Now, you may note that this is a very soft standard. The officer can be wrong, but if he or she is wrong in a "reasonable" manner, qualified immunity applies and the officer (and therefore, the State) is immune from suit. BUT, it's a two-edged sword. If you have them by the short ones, they can't walk, even if they "find" justification for the arrest after the fact. For example, A gets arrested for drug possession, because he's standing on a public sidewalk within 300 yards of a known crack house, it's 2:00 am, and the cops have nothing better to do. While frisking him, they find his car keys. They ask where his car is, bring out a drug dog, who alerts at the car, so they get a warrant, and low as a bee-hole, there are 5 kilos in the trunk.
Was he in possession? Yep. It's still false arrest.
False imprisonment is an intentional tort, and appears to fall within the exclusions from the Texas Tort Claims Act (Texas Civil Practice & Remedies Code sect. 101.057), which is to say, you cannot sue Texas or a state official for false imprisonment. (The TTCA is a qualified waiver of "sovereign immunity," and, since liability for false imprisonment is excluded from the TTCA, sovereign immunity applies.)
Even for false arrest, if I were even going to think about taking on such a case, I'd want to have facts that make you sit up and go "WOW!!" There's too much wiggle room in the standard to even hope to be successful, otherwise.
[This message has been edited by Shyster (edited 03-30-2012).]
Sorry, Don, but I beg to differ, at least so far as Texas is concerned.
Texas Code of Criminal Procedure, Art. 2.01:
"Each district attorney shall represent the State in all criminal cases in the district courts of his district and in appeals therefrom, except in cases where he has been, before his election, employed adversely. When any criminal proceeding is had before an examining court in his district or before a judge upon habeas corpus, and he is notified of the same, and is at the time within his district, he shall represent the State therein, unless prevented by other official duties. It shall be the primary duty of all prosecuting attorneys, including any special prosecutors, not to convict, but to see that justice is done. They shall not suppress facts or secrete witnesses capable of establishing the innocence of the accused."
(emphasis mine)
Every elected DA, County attorney (who sometimes have misdemeanor jurisdiction), and assistant DA or CA in Texas has to take an oath reflecting that duty: to see that justice is done. They don't always carry it through, but they are sworn to it, and it is their job.
Not the first time I was wrong, and unless I die in the next hour or so, it probably won't be the last. Thanks for the correction/clarification!
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09:20 PM
avengador1 Member
Posts: 35468 From: Orlando, Florida Registered: Oct 2001
Originally posted by Cliffw No to both questions. One thing it means is that you are the douche bag I said you were. For repeatedly using this instance in my life for deflection from my claim that you are a douche bag, Just like your buddy JazzMan ('cept I never said he was a douche bag).
Sheesh! Try to extend an olive branch and one gets their head bitten off. I guess your panties are really twisted up in a bunch over this, whatever dude. Like I said above, it takes one to know one, so if I am one, you are a bigger one.
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10:11 PM
PFF
System Bot
May 9th, 2012
cliffw Member
Posts: 36759 From: Bandera, Texas, USA Registered: Jun 2003
The prosecuting attorney is trying to hem haw her way out of speaking with me. First, she tells me that she can not talk to me without my representing attorney. I tell her he no longer represents me. She then says she needs to see a release. I told her I can get one today. She then says that she is not the one I need to speak to. So, I ask who. Guess who get's to go to the police station again, .
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02:47 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43235 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007