MidEngineManiac, First, in the upper half of page 1 of this thread, I listed verses containing prophesies that have been or are now being fulfilled, or both. Second, NO person CAN give you an exact date, for the Father alone knoweth, not even His angels know. Stop bashing the Christians who not only aren't violent nor threatening, but aren't even trying to convert you. We didn't ask you to join this thread, that was all you. We do you no harm, stop wishing us ill. Satan has a strong hold on you, so I'll pray for you, even though I expect you to get upset about me typing this. But if so, then can you say anything bad about Mother Teresa? Best Christian since JC Himself.
[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 01-15-2011).]
the dead await the return of JC to go to heaven but everybody thinks grandma is in heaven now but allmost nobody is in yet as no return/trump
three guys god took up alive in the old ''T"\ that is it total
but JC told the thief on the cross '' you will be in pairadice today ''
here is another is JC fully and eternally the exact same as god church said yes totally and completely the same BUT JC said only god knows the time not him well that is only one of many ways the son of man is not god
------------------ Question wonder and be wierd are you kind?
''The 25% figure has not been achieved in close to 2000 years. And the first time it is achieved, within a matter of 3 years, Israel is re-constituted, also fulfilling a long standing prophecy. Doesn't kind of defy coincidence?''
no just counting the total square miles of places that had very few actual battles is a stretch like no real Battle in the total USA a few subs offshore two small island in Aleutians ect real area fought over far smaller FAIL
''Being killed by the sword, in their term of reference was to be killed by any weapon. It referred to warfare, not the weapon''
IF THEY MEAN WAR SAY WAR NO IT PREDICTS SWORDS AND I SAY NO FAIL BUT VAGUE IS A COMMON THEME AS IS STRETCHING A FEW WERE KILL BY SWORDS BUT VERY FEW FLYING SHARDS WOULD BE CLOSER THEN SWORDS
''During the Sino-Japanese war from 1937 to 1945, the Japanese used biological warfare against the Chinese. These included plague fleas infected with Cholera and Anthrax. Typhus, a famous pandemic, is well documented during World War II, and was rampant throughout Europe during the war years.'' AND '' You refer to the black death as a plague, but, most plagues are not black death. The fact is that plagues did occur during WWII and have been increasing since. For instance, aids, and dengue fever''
SORRY DISEASE SURE PLAGUE NO JAPS WERE NASTY IN CHINA BUT NEVER GOT PLAGUE LEVEL DEATHS 1-2% MAYBE BUT TRUE PLAGUES KILL 10 TO 90% AIDS IS TOO LATE POST WAR FAIL
''The prophesy does not say that 25% of the earth is affected by each thing separately, it speaks of the factors in combination reaching 25%. While it is true a shark is a fish, a croc is a mammal. Wild animal attacks have been around before during and since WWII, but, they were present during WWII as always.''
SHARK IS NOT A FISH FISH HAVE BONES SHARKS DONOT CROC IS A REPTILE NOT A MAMMAL THEY LAY EGGS
TAKE UP STREET RACING THAT WILL BE SAFER AND SANER
IP: Logged
11:49 PM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
MidEngineManiac, First, in the upper half of page 1 of this thread, I listed verses containing prophesies that have been or are now being fulfilled, or both. Second, NO person CAN give you an exact date, for the Father alone knoweth, not even His angels know. Stop bashing the Christians who not only aren't violent nor threatening, but aren't even trying to convert you. We didn't ask you to join this thread, that was all you. We do you no harm, stop wishing us ill. Satan has a strong hold on you, so I'll pray for you, even though I expect you to get upset about me typing this. But if so, then can you say anything bad about Mother Teresa? Best Christian since JC Himself.
I think mother teresa was a good woman who had heart of gold and tried to help everbody she could.......I also know several dozen pilots, soldiers, marines on this forum who didnt have the blessing of the church when the **** hit the fan. THEY sure as hell didnt have any god protecting them...........
Remind me one of these days to tell you how much help "god" is when the motor quits 100 feet up on take-off........he wont re-start-it---thats up to me.,
IP: Logged
11:53 PM
Jan 16th, 2011
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
the dead await the return of JC to go to heaven but everybody thinks grandma is in heaven now but allmost nobody is in yet as no return/trump
three guys god took up alive in the old ''T"\ that is it total
but JC told the thief on the cross '' you will be in pairadice today ''
here is another is JC fully and eternally the exact same as god church said yes totally and completely the same BUT JC said only god knows the time not him well that is only one of many ways the son of man is not god
Everyone who died in righteousness before Jesus died on the cross is now in heaven. Everyone who has ever died not having heard the gospel goes to spirit prison, where the righteous teach the gospel, giving them the chance to decide for themselves. Spirit prison is a paradise compared to earth, but Jesus didn't tell the guy he would be in heaven. Big difference. Jesus is Jehova, He is the son of Yahweh. Yahweh is Elohim, God the Father, King of the Universe, to whom even Jesus prayed. Separate bodies, but same thoughts, abilities, powers, et cetera.
[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 01-16-2011).]
IP: Logged
09:47 AM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
I think mother teresa was a good woman who had heart of gold and tried to help everbody she could.......I also know several dozen pilots, soldiers, marines on this forum who didnt have the blessing of the church when the **** hit the fan. THEY sure as hell didnt have any god protecting them...........
Remind me one of these days to tell you how much help "god" is when the motor quits 100 feet up on take-off........he wont re-start-it---thats up to me.,
Where in scripture did He ever promise to help with worldly concerns? Salvation is after ALL we can do. He won't do anything for us that we should do for ourselves. He doesn't care about worldly things, He cares about saving our souls.
To get divine protection requires living all the commandments. Daily prayer and scripture study, pure thoughts, daily repentance. And if someone doing all those things doesn't survive their airplane taking off, then that's okay, their salvation is sure. It may not seem fair to us, especially if they had family depending on them, but we're here to be tested, not to enjoy an easy comfy life. Plus we never were promised any fairness in this life, only when we stand at final judgement by He Himself.
[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 01-16-2011).]
no just counting the total square miles of places that had very few actual battles is a stretch like no real Battle in the total USA a few subs offshore two small island in Aleutians ect real area fought over far smaller FAIL
Ray, your ignorance of 20 century history is absolutely astonishing. Read up at this website for World War II stats. http://www.world-war-2.info/statistics/
I listed countries of Total 37,468,845.00 sq.km. that had war on their soil in WWII, not including Hawaii, or the Aleutians.
quote
IF THEY MEAN WAR SAY WAR NO IT PREDICTS SWORDS AND I SAY NO FAIL BUT VAGUE IS A COMMON THEME AS IS STRETCHING A FEW WERE KILL BY SWORDS BUT VERY FEW FLYING SHARDS WOULD BE CLOSER THEN SWORDS
SORRY DISEASE SURE PLAGUE NO JAPS WERE NASTY IN CHINA BUT NEVER GOT PLAGUE LEVEL DEATHS 1-2% MAYBE BUT TRUE PLAGUES KILL 10 TO 90% AIDS IS TOO LATE POST WAR FAIL
Your ignorance of ancient writing and the styles of writing is pretty evident, and you should trust those who actually know this stuff.
On what a plague is, you also don't know your stuff.
Plagues are described as: 1 a: a disastrous evil or affliction : CALAMITY b : a destructively numerous influx such as a plague of locusts 2 a : an epidemic disease or pestilence causing a high rate of mortality b : a virulent contagious febrile disease that is caused by a bacterium (Yersinia pestis) and that occurs in bubonic, pneumonic, and septicemic forms -- called also black death
The prophecy does not set a volume standard for the plagues it cites. We know there were plagues evident throughout the 20th century. Remember that I pointed to the middle 1800's and probably early 1900's when the 4th Seal was opened.
We have the Spanish Flu of 1918-19 that killed 50 to 100 million people; Malaria which was killing over 2 million people a year throughout the 20th Century; Typhus from 1918-1922 that killed 3 million people, (the vaccine was developed during WWII); Tuberculosis which was rampant during WWI and continued until TB vaccine development around 1950.
quote
SHARK IS NOT A FISH FISH HAVE BONES SHARKS DONOT CROC IS A REPTILE NOT A MAMMAL THEY LAY EGGS
The Bible and other ancient documents do not differentiate between reptiles and mammals in general. If you search for animal attacks, the shark attack on the survivers of the Indianapolis is listed.
quote
TAKE UP STREET RACING THAT WILL BE SAFER AND SANER
For a guy who so willingly demonstrates his ignorance of history, literature, and science, you are pretty free with your insults.
I think mother teresa was a good woman who had heart of gold and tried to help everbody she could.......I also know several dozen pilots, soldiers, marines on this forum who didnt have the blessing of the church when the **** hit the fan. THEY sure as hell didnt have any god protecting them...........
Remind me one of these days to tell you how much help "god" is when the motor quits 100 feet up on take-off........he wont re-start-it---thats up to me.,
Hey MM, what's your problem here? A little touchy? Nobody is trying to convert you. This thread is about a writing about 2000 years ago that described essentially the circumstances that occurred in this century. It is about a prophesy that seems to be fulfilled. Like Israel being reformed. (also prophesied) not whether you think God is fair to you. There are a pile of good decent men and women who died of unnatural causes in this century. You and I are living proof that their sacrifices weren't in vain.
And it isn't about whether you or I die in a plane or a car, or on a hospital bed. We all have to go some time and we surely do.
Isaiah 30 8 Now go, write it before them in a table, and note it in a book, that it may be for the time to come for ever and ever:
9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the LORD:
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
2 Peter 2 4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
7 And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8 (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds; )
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
Everyone who died in righteousness before Jesus died on the cross is now in heaven. Everyone who has ever died not having heard the gospel goes to spirit prison, where the righteous teach the gospel, giving them the chance to decide for themselves. Spirit prison is a paradise compared to earth, but Jesus didn't tell the guy he would be in heaven. Big difference. Jesus is Jehova, He is the son of Yahweh. Yahweh is god the Father, King of the Universe, to whom even Jesus prayed. Separate bodies, but same thoughts, abilities, powers, et cetera.
jehova jahovah jahway yahweh are all miss spellings of the SAME hebrew name for god they [the jews] did not say or write the name of god or use vowels so YHWH they also used elohim = lord JC who's mom called him Yĕhōšuă‘ [ modern joshua not jesus] called him self son of man others called him Messiah in a gospel the angel said call him Emanuel but nobody did ???????????? so christians use a transliterated name jesus vs his moms Yĕhōšuă or the angel's Emanuel but claim his name will save them ??????????????
who gets into heaven and when is another crock of fish some claim very different groups and timing but your spirit prison is a new one on me as you will not find that in any bible
Whilst I do agree with Ray and M.E.M. I believe your belief is your own and I'm not going to judge or try to convince you that your beliefs are wrong.
However, one thing I would like to point out is that prophecies (of all kinds and religions) are like Ray says, VERY vague. It's the same method that these so called TV psychics use, claiming to be able to talk to your dead auntie Joyce. They generalized so much that they can chose any person at all and almost always be right with their "predictions".
And as for the "sword means gun" debate, I'm skeptical of how credible that is. I mean, this interpretation was decided by a third party that has no real connection to the original "authors", other than studying what they wrote. It's similar to how paleontologists try to predict the colour of dinosaurs. Sure, they can make a pretty good assumption based on their environment and whatever else, but ultimately, it IS just an assumption. Just as "sword means gun" is an assumption.
Like I said, your beliefs are your beliefs and I'm not trying to knock you for them, but just as you have posted your ideas about this topic, so have I.
The word "sword" is used for several purposes and different contexts in the Bible.
In Old English language we know that "putting to the sweord" meant to kill or slay someone. The means of killing them could be a dagger, an arrow, a sword, a club, or any other violent means.
The same holds true in other older languages including Hebrew. The use of the word sword in this case refers to death by violent means, that is to say war and slaying. This is the reason that there is debate between theologians as to whether a scripture is literal or figurative. Until this century who would have realized that 1/4 of the world would be literally true?
And the prophecy is not particularly vague. It says that 1/4 of the earth would be affected by the "sword", famine, plague(s) and wild beasts. That combination is something that exists.The percentage is something that in this century can be measured due to our advanced knowledge and communications base.
One doesn't have to believe it if one does not want to. Like I said, that's one's prerogative. I do believe it has occurred and continues to occur to one degree or another. When the WHO says that about 50% of the population of the earth is directly affected by disease, and 1/3 of the earth is starving, I sit up and listen.
Arn
IP: Logged
06:02 PM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
jehova jahovah jahway yahweh are all miss spellings of the SAME hebrew name for god they [the jews] did not say or write the name of god or use vowels so YHWH they also used elohim = lord JC who's mom called him Yĕhōšuă‘ [ modern joshua not jesus] called him self son of man others called him Messiah in a gospel the angel said call him Emanuel but nobody did ???????????? so christians use a transliterated name jesus vs his moms Yĕhōšuă or the angel's Emanuel but claim his name will save them ??????????????
who gets into heaven and when is another crock of fish some claim very different groups and timing but your spirit prison is a new one on me as you will not find that in any bible
Emanuel is a title, a job description, not a Name. The rest is the meat you're not ready for, you're not even taking the milk. That is in the NT.
[This message has been edited by Isolde (edited 01-16-2011).]
IP: Logged
07:46 PM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
Whilst I do agree with Ray and M.E.M. I believe your belief is your own and I'm not going to judge or try to convince you that your beliefs are wrong.
However, one thing I would like to point out is that prophecies (of all kinds and religions) are like Ray says, VERY vague. It's the same method that these so called TV psychics use, claiming to be able to talk to your dead auntie Joyce. They generalized so much that they can chose any person at all and almost always be right with their "predictions".
And as for the "sword means gun" debate, I'm skeptical of how credible that is. I mean, this interpretation was decided by a third party that has no real connection to the original "authors", other than studying what they wrote. It's similar to how paleontologists try to predict the colour of dinosaurs. Sure, they can make a pretty good assumption based on their environment and whatever else, but ultimately, it IS just an assumption. Just as "sword means gun" is an assumption.
Like I said, your beliefs are your beliefs and I'm not trying to knock you for them, but just as you have posted your ideas about this topic, so have I.
They couldn't use the word "gun", because they had no such thing. A sword was their primary term for an instrument of killing, being the most widespread, popular and effective. Maybe bows and arrows are more like guns, but it hardly matters. The bulk of armies back then carried swords.
Emanuel is a title, a job description, not a Name. The rest is the meat you're not ready for, you're not even taking the milk. That is in the NT.
the quote is an angel of the Lord" appears to Mary's betrothed husband Joseph in a dream and tells him: "she will bear a son, and you shall call his name Immanuel,
''''Behold the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and his name shall be called Immanuel, which being interpreted is God with us'".
that does not say a job description or title or he shall be a emanuel now yes christ or savior or messiah are titles just ''his name shall be called '' and BTW I have no expectation of any name saving me or anyone but the point is that religion DOES CLAIM THE NAME SAVES but they doNOT use a correct name
IP: Logged
09:40 PM
Formula88 Member
Posts: 53788 From: Raleigh NC Registered: Jan 2001
David Koresh was a nut. A dangerous one at that. When Jesus returns, it won't be about drinking the cool-aid.
Arn
Kool-Aid was Jim Jones, Jonestown, Guyana. (That's where the "drink the Kool-Aid" meme came from) David Koresh was the Branch Davidian fiasco in Wacko [sic], TX.
[This message has been edited by Formula88 (edited 01-16-2011).]
IP: Logged
11:30 PM
Jan 17th, 2011
Wichita Member
Posts: 20685 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Kool-Aid was Jim Jones, Jonestown, Guyana. (That's where the "drink the Kool-Aid" meme came from) David Koresh was the Branch Davidian fiasco in Wacko [sic], TX.
Ah, yes, thank you, Wichita, for bringing up the " Christians are ignorant fools who don't understand science" argument. Maybe you should tell that to Issac Newton, who saw science as proving the existence of God. He said, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being." We could add Lord Kelvin, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday and a host of others to that list. But scientists who believe in God just doesn't suit modern atheism, does It?
jehova jahovah jahway yahweh are all miss spellings of the SAME hebrew name for god they [the jews] did not say or write the name of god or use vowels so YHWH they also used elohim = lord JC who's mom called him Yĕhōšuă‘ [ modern joshua not jesus] called him self son of man others called him Messiah in a gospel the angel said call him Emanuel but nobody did ???????????? so christians use a transliterated name jesus vs his moms Yĕhōšuă or the angel's Emanuel but claim his name will save them ??????????????
who gets into heaven and when is another crock of fish some claim very different groups and timing but your spirit prison is a new one on me as you will not find that in any bible
Ray once again you don't fail to disappoint.
There are many spellings for the names of God in many languages. (I don't recall seeing 'Jahwey') Jesus is a translation of Yĕhōšuă. Jesus was known as "Joshua" during His lifetime not the Anglicized name. I think there are about 17 main names of God but there are over 150 different names used to refer to God in the Bible with translations of those names in many languages.
So what has your posting got to do with the premise of the thread? Your incoherent ramblings are not the carefully researched and thoughtfully presented points that would either refute or support the premise of the thread.
Please let me reiterate.
Look at the last 150 years of history.
The British Empire was the first World Empire, circumnavigating the world with the intention of World Domination. This was closely followed by the writing of the Communist Manifesto in 1847 which lead to Bolshevik Revolution in Russia in 1917. World War I started in 1914 but, in particular, the Communist Manifesto penned in 1847 was a document intended to lead to World Conquest.
The countries of the Allies tried to prevent further World War by instituting the Covenant of the League of Nations in 1919. This effort to promote World Peace failed. Conflict and the horrors of the Stalinist purges prevailed. Soon the World suffered the Great Depression. Starvation and hardship followed for 10 years, and culminated in World War II.
The Spanish Flu of 1918-19 killed 50 to 100 million people. Malaria which has killed over 2 million people a year throughout the 20th Century Typhus raged from 1918-1922 and killed 3 million people. Tuberculosis was rampant during WWI and continued world wide until TB vaccine was development around 1950.
Famine came to America in the 1930's but was well known in Asia before then.
Elephant attacks are well documented, bear attacks, dog attacks, coyote attacks.
We could not quantify the extent of World problems before this century. In addition, there has never been a war like World War II where only 5 countries were declared neutral, and the rest of the world was at war. The land masses of the countries that were theaters of war is more than 25% of the earth's land mass. This is documented.
The prophesy was pretty specific. It looks like it has been totally fulfilled. You can believe it or not, but, please don't obscure the discussion with ramblings you are clearly not educated to talk about.
the guy who thinks sharks are fish and croc's are mammals said ''The prophesy was pretty specific. It looks like it has been totally fulfilled. You can believe it or not, but, please don't obscure the discussion with ramblings you are clearly not educated to talk about.''
Guess we'll ALL find out if all this stuff is true one day...until then, where's that popcorn-eatin' giffy?
How incredibly awesome would it be if "God" appeared one day, to set us all straight, and when we look up, we saw... ...a Giant Platypus?
EVERYONE would be smackin' their heads, or flipping madly through their religious book of choice, and you'd hear this one little guy's voice shouting "SEE?!?! I TOLD you!I TOLD YOU!!!!!!"
For the record: "I for one welcome our Platypus Overlord."
edit: BATS ARE NOT BUGS!!!!!!!!
[This message has been edited by FieroRumor (edited 01-17-2011).]
IP: Logged
01:33 PM
Isolde Member
Posts: 2504 From: North Logan, Utah, USA Registered: May 2008
If you have the least curiousity about biblical things, good! Ignore the for-profit preachers, read your own copy of the bible. Pray earnestly. If you want divine promptings as to the truth, do those things, plus fast, and do it all purely, for pure reasons. It is a powerful experiment. The men who try to interpret the bible without doing these important steps are getting it wrong, whether they seek worldly benefit or not. I KNOW that the seals are not yet. The reason it looks that was is because there must needs be opposition in ALL things. I just gave you 100% of what any person can give you, until you have done as I just advised. Reject the milk, you can't feast on the meat.
IP: Logged
10:35 PM
Jan 18th, 2011
Khw Member
Posts: 11139 From: South Weber, UT. U.S.A. Registered: Jun 2008
Who are you to make such demands of a god/gods? You really think if there really is a god/gods they care what a mortal demands?
quote
Originally posted by MidEngineManiac:
I think mother teresa was a good woman who had heart of gold and tried to help everbody she could.......I also know several dozen pilots, soldiers, marines on this forum who didnt have the blessing of the church when the **** hit the fan. THEY sure as hell didnt have any god protecting them...........
Remind me one of these days to tell you how much help "god" is when the motor quits 100 feet up on take-off........he wont re-start-it---thats up to me.,
And this is where you lack understanding. If we are talking the Christian god, they beleive he gave man free agency. This means man makes their own choices and suffers the blessings or consiquences of those choices. God does not reach down and make the engine start. Or atleast he stopped doing these types of things after he walked the Earth as his Son. God does not put up a magic shield around you to deflect bullets. God basically says "Here go live your life. If you find me you will be blessed with eternal life. If you don't you face eternal damnation.". It's up to us what happens.
But, I'm not telling you what to beleive, what not to beleive or to beleive what I beleive. It's every persons choice. I've made my choice and you've made yours. Is it possible things could happen in our lives that change those choices? Sure, but again it's each persons choice.
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 01-18-2011).]
IP: Logged
12:13 AM
joshh44 Member
Posts: 2166 From: Nanaimo, B.C, Canada Registered: Aug 2007
im a christian and this is quite interesting hearing people argue and hearing there thoughts about the topic. i dont read the bible much. which i really should be doing more often. i wish i had more bible knowledge so i could join in this topic.
the bible is a very hard book to read. its been translated soo many times before it got translated to english that it doesnt seem to make alot of sence some of the time when you read it there could be alot of miss understandings or taken the wrong way. i get lost and confuzed reading the bible with all there meanings and symbolizations. like the sword. there not meaning an actual sword. its what the sword symbolizes.
IP: Logged
04:05 AM
MidEngineManiac Member
Posts: 29566 From: Some unacceptable view Registered: Feb 2007
Hey MM, what's your problem here? A little touchy? Nobody is trying to convert you. This thread is about a writing about 2000 years ago that described essentially the circumstances that occurred in this century. It is about a prophesy that seems to be fulfilled. Like Israel being reformed. (also prophesied) not whether you think God is fair to you. There are a pile of good decent men and women who died of unnatural causes in this century. You and I are living proof that their sacrifices weren't in vain.
And it isn't about whether you or I die in a plane or a car, or on a hospital bed. We all have to go some time and we surely do.
Live long and prosper.
Arn
No probs, Ane...it was meant as tounge-in-cheek sarcasm/ humor (vocal infliction doesnt carry well over the computer screen )...I to tend to get a good giggle out of 5,000 years of failed prophesies and the human species keep right on going at it, as well a those groups who jump up and down exitedly everytime something happens chanting "god did it" and finding some obscure reference so vauge in something or other to point to as "proof" it was predicted.....
I'm pretty sure anybody who looks hard enough with vauge enough terms can find a biblical prediction that will apply to the current spate of dead birds and fish...if all else fails, they will pull out Drosnins bible code and find it in hebrew
[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 01-18-2011).]
Actually MM, if you are a student of the Bible, there are mostly fulfilled prophecies in the Bible. The exception is the Second Coming of Christ and the Revelation.
What this thread points out is that one has to chose how many times a prophecy has to be fulfilled for it to count.
The 20th Century is the first time known to man that 25% of the earth was directly affected by the combination of factors the prophecy lists. Now that those parameters are met, are they to be met again to satisfy theology that does not agree with Pre-millenial doctrine? Does Doctrine override facts?
I was pre-disposed to believe that none of the Revelation applied currently. I was wrong. The more I looked I saw the evidence that the 6th chapter of Revelation is occurring and has been occurring in the 20 Century.
One can argue theology all day, but, one is hard pressed to argue black is white. The 25% figure was passed in World War II. Since then the percentage has risen. If you combine the countries at war, with those in famine, those with rampant disease (plague if you like), and the Elephant attacks in South Africa, bear attacks in North America, Coyote attacks in the United States, you are approaching 50% of the earth. The seal, so far as I can see is open, and the situation is growing, not static, and not reducing.
Well. this is an interesting thread! How to be brief ... I shall try. Rather than quote from specific posts in this thread, I'll deal with subjects.
Translations, versions, etc. EVERY translation is "hearsay" and hearsay is not admissible in court. ONLY the original Hebrew and Aramaic are "first witness" sources. Even the Greek NT are translations and are not reliable witnesses to the original. For this reason, I have obtained several Aramaic NT interlinear Bibles as well as Hebrew OT Interlinear Bibles. I am not fluent in either Hebrew or Aramaic, thus the interlinears along with several dictionaries and commentaries. A pastor friend said to me, "The best way to study Scripture is to let it define itself." What does that mean? It means, do word searches using Strong's numbers, but these are for Greek in the NT, so I also use Magiera's Peshitta NT interlinear and dictionary. For example, in Daniel 8:14 the word translated "sanctuary" is traditionally interpreted to reference the physical temple. Thus the following word, Strong's H6663, traditionally translated as "cleansed" or similar, is interpreted to apply to some form of the temple being "cleaned up." In fact, a word study of every occurrence of H6663 (42 times in the OT) shows it can NEVER apply to a physical building, but rather ALWAYS applies to "vindicating" or "clearing the name'" of a person. It follows that "sanctuary" MUST be a person who is "vindicated" from some charge. To "seal the deal" the first definition of sanctuary, "H6944" is "A holy being, a saint." The context of Daniel 8:9-14 is "the little horn" that attacks the "sanctuary" and its "hosts." Yeshau (Aramaic) referenced himself as the "temple" when He said He would "tear it down and rebuild it in three days." So, Daniel 8:14 is a prophecy that Yeshau (the temple) would "be vindicated" or "clear his name" from the charges brought against him.
As for the "pale" horse in Rev 6:8, a prior comment correctly states the word in Greek is "choleric" that is, a sickly green. Lamsa's Aramaic translation says "pale green horse." The word in Aramaic is the same that describes "chlorophyll" as in tree leaves. The four colors, red, white, black, and "choleric", in context, are referencing the political trends of history, that is, the "current goals" of the body politic. What is the big theme of our political time? Environment. What color are the "go green" logos? Most are pale green. We are living in the time of the pale green horse.
IP: Logged
10:43 PM
Nov 12th, 2012
mptighe Member
Posts: 3321 From: Houston, TX Registered: Aug 2009
You can disregard the facts if you like. That is your prerogative.
Arn
Did you seriously just call the story you told, which is based off of another story, FACTS? So people who couldn't even comprehend the workings of the human body, the existence of stars, the entirety of the earth, or even how regular events in nature happened, were capable of foretelling the future? Ummmmm ok.
IP: Logged
12:32 AM
PFF
System Bot
Wichita Member
Posts: 20685 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
Ah, yes, thank you, Wichita, for bringing up the " Christians are ignorant fools who don't understand science" argument. Maybe you should tell that to Issac Newton, who saw science as proving the existence of God. He said, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being." We could add Lord Kelvin, Rene Descartes, Michael Faraday and a host of others to that list. But scientists who believe in God just doesn't suit modern atheism, does It?
Thats true.. But its also true, that as brilliant as newton was, and as essential as he was in furthering our understanding of the universe, he was also WRONG about alot of his theorys.. They did help future scientists advance our knowledge, but they were still incomplete or just plain incorrect..
IP: Logged
11:26 AM
fierobear Member
Posts: 27083 From: Safe in the Carolinas Registered: Aug 2000
Thats true.. But its also true, that as brilliant as newton was, and as essential as he was in furthering our understanding of the universe, he was also WRONG about alot of his theorys.. They did help future scientists advance our knowledge, but they were still incomplete or just plain incorrect..
Being a scientist, atheist or both doesn't ensure that one is right, either.
IP: Logged
11:40 AM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
Interesting... I have to ask. If there is an "end date". Why doesn't the Bible just tell us that date? Give us a date..... x number of days from the birth of Christ. Or why tell us it is coming at all? How about a surprise
Interesting... I have to ask. If there is an "end date". Why doesn't the Bible just tell us that date? Give us a date..... x number of days from the birth of Christ. Or why tell us it is coming at all? How about a surprise
You're not going to reason people out of something they reasoned themselves into. They are convinced they have a secret insight. Only they can back themselves out and they have to want to do that - they don't.
Yes there is an end date. Nobody knows what it is. The reason is that God doesn't want people to plan around it. He just wants people to repent and believe.
The Bible tells us that the matter is one of "faith". Faith is something you cannot teach nor can you acquire.
God the Father knows the date. It's entirely in His court. I don't need to know it, I just have to be prepared for it.
Good questions though, and posed by millions of people over many centuries, always with the same answer.
Hope this helps.
Arn
IP: Logged
12:32 PM
Pyrthian Member
Posts: 29569 From: Detroit, MI Registered: Jul 2002
maybe you check up with the newer books of God, and see what they has to say....after all, I expect you are only speaking from the middle God, which isnt exactly up to date material.....
or is that all just made up?
one of the most amusing about the Jew God religions.....
