quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Oh come on guys, you can't be serious! The lowest level on the legend on both maps is a < some value! That means areas with zero increased radiation level are shown as dark blue or tan areas of the map. Clearly I can see why you guys are wacko about this kind of stuff. You need to think about things before you blindly assume the worst.

So 100K bq/m squared of cesium is normal? notice how some those blue areas touch the border of the next prefecture yet there is no data for the next prefecture? I guess the fallout was told not to go there. Note, I said I did not think they were hiding levels of high radiation, I said the map reflects the area was not surveyed. The only thing whacko here is your blatant dishonesty, and your repeated attempts to discredit people by distorting the truth.
BTW, I am referring to the bottom map.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 09-29-2011).]

Rubble from quake- and tsunami-hit areas to be disposed in Tokyo
Rubble piles up at a temporary disposal site in Iwaki, Fukushima Prefecture. (Mainichi)


The Tokyo Metropolitan Government is set to dispose in the capital rubble from earthquake- and tsunami-hit areas in Iwate and Miyagi prefectures, officials said.

There is far more rubble in areas hit by the Great East Japan Earthquake, tsunami and the crisis at the Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Plant than local bodies can dispose of. Moreover, due to radiation fears, little progress has been made in efforts to dispose of such waste.

Tokyo decided to process rubble from disaster-hit areas after detecting only 133 becquerels of radioactive cesium per kilogram of ash generated after rubble was incinerated, far below the upper limit of 8,000 becquerels set by the national government. The central government will foot the expenses of disposing of disaster-generated rubble.

Iwate Gov. Takuya Tasso, who will sign an agreement with Tokyo on rubble disposal on Sept. 30, hailed the move.

"It'll be a major step toward the reconstruction of disaster-hit areas," he said. "I hope Tokyo's efforts will encourage other local bodies to accept waste from disaster areas."

The metropolitan government intends to transport approximately 500,000 metric tons of rubble to facilities in the capital and dispose of them over a 2 1/2-year period from this coming October to March 2014.

To start with, it will accept about 1,000 tons of rubble stored at a temporary storage site in Miyako, Iwate Prefecture. The waste will be transported by freight train to Tokyo from October.

The waste will be separate into burnable and unburnable items. Burnable waste will be incinerated while unburnable waste will be buried in a garbage landfill area in the Tokyo Bay area.

To ensure safety, the Tokyo Metropolitan Government will regularly measure the amount of radiation in the incinerated ash and atmosphere around the disposable facilities where the rubble is processed.

In line with national government guidelines that call for the disposal of rubble from disaster-hit areas by the end of March 2014, the Iwate Prefectural Government had worked out a detailed plan to dispose of waste generated as a result of the disaster.

Such waste generated in coastal areas alone amounts to some 4.35 million metric tons. But the capacity at disposal facilities in the prefecture is about 800 tons short per day to meet the central government's deadline. To make up for the shortage, the prefectural government asked local governments outside Iwate via the Environment Ministry to accept rubble generated by the quake and tsunami.

The ministry responded to Iwate Prefecture that non-industrial waste disposal facilities in 41 prefectures can handle such waste.

The prefectural government began in late June to measure the levels of radioactive substances in such waste at coastal areas. Tokyo also dispatched officials to Iwate Prefecture to hold talks on the disposal of the rubble.

Tokyo will also similarly dispose of rubble from Miyagi Prefecture. However, an official with the Miyagi Prefectural Government said on Sept. 28 that it is still holding talks with a number of local governments over the disposal of disaster-generated waste.

The prefectural government is set to begin sample surveys on rubble for radiation as early as next month.
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/mdnn...2a00m0na010000c.html

The following is being offered in the interest of being unbiased. Of course, I still have a hard time trusting governments and corporations that might put lives in front of liability and profits(gut feeling and history involved here). I hope this is all legitimate !
Japan Earthquake 2011: Government Lifts Some Evacuation Notices Near Damaged Nuclear Plant
Fukushima Nuclear

By ERIC TALMADGE 09/30/11 06:23 AM ET AP
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TOKYO -- Japan lifted some evacuation advisories around the tsunami-devastated Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear plant Friday to reassure tens of thousands of residents who fled the worst atomic crisis since Chernobyl that it is safe to return home.

A 12-mile (20-kilometer) no-go zone remains in place around the plant, which was badly damaged by the March 11 tsunami that left nearly 20,000 people dead or missing across Japan's northeast coast.

But officials said the advisories for five municipalities 12-19 miles (20-30 kilometers) away were lifted because the plant had been restored to a relatively stable condition and radiation levels were within safety standards.

Environment Minister Goshi Hosono, the government's top nuclear crisis official, said the decision was a major step toward restoring normalcy to the region and boosting ongoing efforts to resettle the largely deserted towns.

Local officials, however, said they did not expect residents to come flooding back right away.

Motohoshi Yamada, the mayor of one of the affected towns, said in a statement Friday that further radiation monitoring and infrastructure repairs must be carried out before the town will be ready to function again.

"We are doing all we can to assure that our townspeople will be able to return as soon as possible," said Yamada, whose town, Hirono, is right on the edge of the no-go zone. "As soon as we believe residents can return safely and securely, we will let them know."

The advisories were issued April 22 and affected about 59,000 people.

The government did not order residents outside the 12-mile zone to leave. Instead, it cautioned them to be prepared to remain indoors or evacuate at any time in the event of a further crisis at the plant. Many – fearing radioactive contamination and cut off from public services – left anyway.

Tens of thousands remain in voluntary exile.

The five towns have begun efforts to decontaminate buildings and restart public services so that residents can return. A government panel is also compiling guidelines to address concerns from residents and support their resettlement process.

Experts say it could take decades for some of the areas nearest the plant to be safe for habitation. The disaster is the worst since Chernobyl in 1986.

Still, the plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., announced this week that it was making significant progress toward controlling the temperatures in the reactors, a key to stabilizing them and eventually shutting them down altogether.

I think I posted this before but anyways:

Anyone question how they could be finding Neptunium-239 presumably in August or September when Neptunium-239 has a half life of 2.4 days?

It seems quite fishy to me.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Friday, September 30, 2011 Ministry of Education Admits to Plutonium in Iitate-mura in Fukushima 35 kilometers northwest of Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant. Jiji Tsushin (5:42PM JST 9/30/2011): Ministry of Education and Science disclosed on September 30 that plutonium has been detected from the soil in Futaba-machi, Namie-machi and Iitate-mura in Fukushima Prefecture, which derived from the Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant accident. According to the Ministry, it is the first detection of plutonium outside the plant. Readers of this blog have been alerted to the existence of neptunium-239 (which decays into plutonium-239) in the soil of Iitate-mura, so it should be no surprise. It is no surprise at all either that it has taken more than 6 months for the Ministry of (Re-)Education to admit. Neptunium-239 has reportedly been detected in Date City also. That's even further away from the plant (60 kilometers). http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/...ation-admits-to.html

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: I think I posted this before but anyways: Anyone question how they could be finding Neptunium-239 presumably in August or September when Neptunium-239 has a half life of 2.4 days? It seems quite fishy to me.

I agree to a degree. Maybe they're catching it at an opportune moment? Maybe it's still spewing? Or, maybe not?

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: I think I posted this before but anyways: Anyone question how they could be finding Neptunium-239 presumably in August or September when Neptunium-239 has a half life of 2.4 days? It seems quite fishy to me.

You did, and I covered it to some degree. Neptunium is a product of fission. This would indicate criticality and the recent iodine levels would too.

Nikkan SPA Magazine: Researcher Says Large Amount of Neptunium-239 Also in Date City, Fukushima
It's the same researcher who said several thousand becquerels/kg of neptunium-239 was found in the soil in Iitate-mura, about 35 km northwest of Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant. It seems it's not just Iitate-mura that got doused with neptunium, which decays into plutonium. Date City, about 25 km northwest from Iitate-mura and 60 km from Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant, also got a large amount of neptunium.

To recap, uranium-239, whose half life is about 24 minutes, decays into neptunium-239 with a half life of about 2.5 days, which then decays into plutonium-239 whose half life is 24,200 years.

Again, the reason for withholding the information is explained in the article below as "the research paper being peer-reviewed by a foreign scientific journal" - a make-or-break event, apparently, for a young researcher at a prestigious university in Japan - and as precaution against the possible Japanese government action to squash the information. The article was written by the same husband & wife comedian couple who first wrote about neptunium in Iitate-mura on their blog magazine in early August.

I'm sure the nuclear experts who have appeared on TV to soothe the populace ever since the March 11 nuclear accident has the good explanation for neptunium-239 in these locations. They've kept saying "No way plutonium will be found outside the compound, because it is heavy and it doesn't fly". Oh I get it. It's plutonium they were talking about, not neptunium which decays into plutonium. My bad.

From Nikkan SPA September 13 issue (part on Date City only):

The email began thus:

quote "I heard it directly from a university researcher whose specialty is radiation measurement. Neptunium, the nuclide that decays into plutonium, flew at least to Iitate-mura and Date City in large quantity. The current survey method focuses only on gamma ray, and all it detects is radioactive cesium. The real danger is alpha-nuclides, which continues to be ignored. Iitate-mura may be being betrayed again..."

The article by the comedian cum independent journalist couple continues and says this person attended a lecture given by this researcher.

It still doesn't make sense to me that the information already freely given at a public lecture has to be withheld because of the peer-review process, but oh well.

Date City by the way has been selected by the national government to conduct "decontamination" experiments. So is Iitate-mura. They are using high-pressure spray washers to blast roofs, sidings and roads, and digging up the soil. Plutonium? What plutonium?

Unlike Iitate-mura, though, almost all residents in Date City still live within the city. Even those who are ordered to move because of high radiation level in their homes have moved to temporary housing that the city has provided, within the city.

http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/...researcher-says.html

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: If you buy into that, you too are wacko

If you buy into Fukushima will cause no cancers and shorten no ones lives, you too are wacko. When was the last time you found a news article willing to make the statement that Fukushima is nothing serious? You have no media backing the cause you are so desperately fighting. Who is wacko now?

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: If you buy into Fukushima will cause no cancers and shorten no ones lives, you too are wacko. When was the last time you found a news article willing to make the statement that Fukushima is nothing serious? You have no media backing the cause you are so desperately fighting. Who is wacko now?

I have never said that Fukushima is nothing serious. The idea of yours that I think Fukushima is nothing serious is again something that you have made up in your own mind.

This IS what I said on 5/14

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: It's not my intention to downplay the disaster. It is something to take seriously. I have attacked NUMEROUS wacko things that have been posted.

Sorry about the real facts again getting in the way of what you are trying to convince people of. It seems like it happens to you quite a bit.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-01-2011).]

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Sorry about the real facts again getting in the way of what you are trying to convince people of. It seems like it happens to you quite a bit.

Anybody can go through this thread and read from the beginning and see your downplaying of the disaster. You called BS when I said people would get cancer. You said no one is expected to die. No, they are not going to drop dead, but peoples lives will be shortened.
Your only tactic is to make accusations and repeat them, however a repeated lie does not make truth.
So yes, you have indicated that this isn't serious. I have known many people with tactics like yours, they are called manipulators.

Who do you expect to get cancer?

The people who were evacuated or the people working at the power plant who's exposure has been limited to what are considered safe levels?

Stating the truth is not downplaying the situation.

Sorry that it doesn't allow you to spew your bullshit ideas

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Anybody can go through this thread and read from the beginning and see your downplaying of the disaster. You called BS when I said people would get cancer. You said no one is expected to die. No, they are not going to drop dead, but peoples lives will be shortened. Your only tactic is to make accusations and repeat them, however a repeated lie does not make truth. So yes, you have indicated that this isn't serious. I have known many people with tactics like yours, they are called manipulators.

Yeah you idiot.

Chernobyl isn't on a ocean (yeah you misspelled it)

I had given you a walk on that one before because I felt it was too stupid to respond to.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Yet, Chernobyl 5 times Fukushima, seems comparable. Fukushima has had a much greater impact on the oecan, seems comparable. Fukushima Cesium release equals 168 Nagasaki bombs, pretty sure that is comparable!

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Who do you expect to get cancer? The people who were evacuated or the people working at the power plant who's exposure has been limited to what are considered safe levels? Stating the truth is not downplaying the situation. Sorry that it doesn't allow you to spew your bullshit ideas

Cesium in the air, Cesium in the ocean, Cesium in the drinking water, Cesium in playgrounds. Exposure adds up, and Cesium is going to be around for a while. I would say tens of thousands will contract cancer. I bet in the 20-30 years it takes, if this forum exist then, and we are both on it, you claim the sharp rise in cancer to coal plants or some nonsense like that.

As far as the plant workers, some of them have admitted to taking their dosage badges off, because they would be unemployed if not.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 10-01-2011).]

You have any facts that shows what he said is wrong.

Nope


But you just want things to be horrible.

The facts don't bother you. All you want to do is spread your hate of nuclear power.

And you still say you are pro nuke.

Facts and truth have little value in what you say. What does is that you can attempt to spew your liberalism.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: The author you were backing was wrong, I guess he was bought and paid for then.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: You have any facts that shows what he said is wrong. Nope But you just want things to be horrible. The facts don't bother you. All you want to do is spread your hate of nuclear power. And you still say you are pro nuke. Facts and truth have little value in what you say. What does is that you can attempt to spew your liberalism.

Yes I do, the NY times article I posted that stated scientist are finding the Cesium has not dispersed, but has been kept concentrated. Go back and actually read it. Your author was wrong.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6: Yes I do, the NY times article I posted that stated scientist are finding the Cesium has not dispersed, but has been kept concentrated. Go back and actually read it. Your author was wrong.

What the article stated is:

quote Off the coast, the early results indicate that very large amounts of radioactive materials were released, and may still be leaking, and that rather than being spread through the whole ocean, currents are keeping a lot of the material concentrated.

Taken at exactly what he said, if 'a lot of the material is concentrated' then that also means that some of the material has been dispersed.

Again and again and again you read things but just don't have the ability to comprehend what is actually said. You just want it to be what you believe it MUST be.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: Taken at exactly what he said, if 'a lot of the material is concentrated' then that also means that some of the material has been dispersed. Again and again and again you read things but just don't have the ability to comprehend what is actually said. You just want it to be what you believe it MUST be.

Really, you don't think you are stretching that for all its worth? lol, pathetic, you insult your own intelligence again. My article also states scientist believed most of it would disperse harmlessly, that was not the case. That was the case your author made, so your author was wrong. You backed the wrong horse, just admit it like an adult and stop making a fool of yourself.

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: I think I posted this before but anyways: Anyone question how they could be finding Neptunium-239 presumably in August or September when Neptunium-239 has a half life of 2.4 days? It seems quite fishy to me.

Were you aware of how the half-life concept works? It's fairly simple. Most people assume that after the first half life has passed there's only half of the original substance left, and after the next half-life time period there's nothing left. However, how it actually works is that each half life interval results in a reduction of that particular isotope by half of the previous amount. After the second half-life period passes there will be 1/4 of the original amount, the next half life leaves 1/8 of the original, etc. After many cycles there will be very little left, of course, compared to the original amount, but if the original amount was very large then there'd still be some left to find.

Also, these elements decay to other elements, so it's quite easy to understand that something decayed into Neptunium, and the Neptunium will decay into something else. It's been far too long since I took physics and I have no interest in unpacking that series of books, but an enterprising individual like yourself ought to be willing to hit google for more info on the subject of half-lifes and isotope decay ladders.

Yes Jazzman I am quite aware what half-life means

And yes I am aware that Neptunium 239 comes from the decay of Uranium 239. btw, Uranium 239 has a half life of 23.45 minutes

So yep - that pretty much takes care of that story eh?

Well unless somehow something went critical, and the radiation detectors near the plant all missed this cloud of U-239, that then migrated directly over to wherever they are saying it went to and then landed, AND THEN this and I quote - comedian turned researcher - and his team? went to test this area within a short period of days to find this Neptunium.

Or perhaps you agree that the story is as I stated before "sounds fishy"

quote Originally posted by JazzMan: Were you aware of how the half-life concept works? It's fairly simple. Most people assume that after the first half life has passed there's only half of the original substance left, and after the next half-life time period there's nothing left. However, how it actually works is that each half life interval results in a reduction of that particular isotope by half of the previous amount. After the second half-life period passes there will be 1/4 of the original amount, the next half life leaves 1/8 of the original, etc. After many cycles there will be very little left, of course, compared to the original amount, but if the original amount was very large then there'd still be some left to find. Also, these elements decay to other elements, so it's quite easy to understand that something decayed into Neptunium, and the Neptunium will decay into something else. It's been far too long since I took physics and I have no interest in unpacking that series of books, but an enterprising individual like yourself ought to be willing to hit google for more info on the subject of half-lifes and isotope decay ladders.

Jazzman, I could care less about phonedawgz. I think everyone knows his game. I am just tired of fighting with him, when only two other people care. ENENEWS is a very good source, just you have to verify the articles have legit sources they jump the gun sometimes.

quote Originally posted by dennis_6:

It is an interesting picture isn't it. It makes one wonder what was happening.

Here is the caption from the site that posted it "newscientist.com"

Police and other workers practise[sic] a search on the Fukushima coast earlier this month. Exhaust towers of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant are visible in the background

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-03-2011).]

quote Originally posted by phonedawgz: It is an interesting picture isn't it. It makes one wonder what was happening. Here is the caption from the site that posted it "newscientist.com" Police and other workers practise[sic] a search on the Fukushima coast earlier this month. Exhaust towers of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant are visible in the background

Yes, I love the way they are in swim suits just playing in the ocean. It shows that I was wrong all of this time. I was being paranoid, how stupid of me. I mean its not like they are in protective gear or anything.

BTW, since I am no longer posting articles, you should go over to enenews and look at all the articles that support your position.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 10-03-2011).]

Per the caption - it is only a practice search.

Now if it is a practice search it is quite likely the gear is only for practice purposes also. It would not be smart to practice searching in radioactive gear in an area that requires protective gear. It would make much more sense to practice with the protective gear in an area that doesn't require it.

It would be rather foolish to do otherwise. So unless you have something that states that the gear is necessary for that area, the most likely scenario is that it is not.