amazing! this thing is still going. Nobody knows how it's going to turn out. Some people think that these plants were safe from the beginning. Some peeople have there heads in the sand no matter what facts are presented to them. No matter how hard it is to defend their positions in light of the facts that keep coming out they keep trying. It's the old saying " I've got my mind made up, don't confuse me with facts"
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12:08 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
The point is nothing is 'inherently safe'. If you want to make electricity you have to take some kind of risk. Dams can fail. Windmills can fall. Coal fired power plants will emit CO2 along with other particles.
And while close to 20,000 people are dead or missing because they were too close to the ocean's shore when the tsunami struck, 0 have died none have died from radiation from the nuclear power plant.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-20-2011).]
Good, then the tens of thousands of refugees whose homes and farms were only moderately (if at all) damaged by the earthquakes and not touched by the tsunami can start moving home, cremating the remains of their lost loved ones, and rebuilding their lives. I wonder if they can start doing it now, today? It's only been seven months and nine days (I was going to say seven and a half months, but then realized phonedawgz would jump on the fact that there's a difference between half a month which is around 15 days and nine days, then claim I was an extremist whacko exaggerating how long it's been since the disaster began unfolding, and therefor would consider me to be fully discredited. So, I'll say nine days, though it may be ten, or eight, I never can remember the date line time zone things. Though, I'll point out that for these sixty or more thousand people living in improvised mass shelters and relative's living room floors the difference between nine days and 15 days is phuc*ing irrelevant) on from the original disaster.
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01:40 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
They searched and recovered the bodies over a month ago.
Since you are worried if they cremated them or not, see if you can find a story, after the bodies were recovered, that states that they were too radioactive to cremate.
Someone speculating 'the bodies might be too contaminated to cremate", before the bodies were recovered, and the radiation measured, doesn't make their speculation a fact.
Well it doesn't make it a fact except to the wackos.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-20-2011).]
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01:59 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
Ah, wrong again. (and again, and again, and again, and again)
If the fuel rods melted, they are no longer rods. And if the melted fuel is outside of the pressure vessel, that would make it harder to cool.
Ok, the melted fuel rods, happy? The melted fuel is most likely in the basement, which would makes the reactor vessel fairly easy to cool without most of the fuel inside. Before you say its in the containment vessels, there are plenty of articles i posted in the past that shows the vessels are breached.
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07:50 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Ok, the melted fuel rods, happy? The melted fuel is most likely in the basement, which would makes the reactor vessel fairly easy to cool without most of the fuel inside. Before you say its in the containment vessels, there are plenty of articles i posted in the past that shows the vessels are breached.
The thing they need to cool is the FUEL.
You really would be much better off just not saying anything. That way you won't look so ignorant.
You don't have even a clue do you?
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-20-2011).]
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07:57 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
You really would be much better off just not saying anything. That way you won't look so ignorant.
You don't have even a clue do you?
You really are dense, they will claim cold shutdowns with empty reactors. Saying the reactors are below the cold shutdown temps. They will just neglect to mention the reason the reactors are cold, is the fuel is no longer in them.
Wednesday, October 19, 2011 #Fukushima I Nuke Plant: 450 Tonnes of Groundwater Per Day Seeping into Reactor/Turbine Bldgs
Since the end of June when the contaminated water treatment system started the operation, total 50,000 tonnes of groundwater have seeped into the reactor buildings and turbine buildings at Fukushima I Nuke Plant. Now, the total amount of contaminated water (highly contaminated water plus not-so-highly contaminated, treated water) at the plant has grown from 127,000 tonnes at the end of June to 175,000 tonnes as of October 18, according to Asahi Shinbun.
Does TEPCO have any plan to stop the flow of groundwater into the reactor buildings and turbine buildings, which just adds to the amount of highly contaminated water to be treated and stored? TEPCO is fast running out of storage space, even with cutting down more trees to make room for the storage tanks.
Other than spraying the low-contamination, treated water on the premise, the answer is no. No plan, as TEPCO is running out of money that it is willing to spend on Fukushima I Nuke Plant.
It has been discovered that the contaminated water has increased by 40% in 4 months inside the reactor buildings and turbine buildings at Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant, with the inflow of ground water of about 50,000 tonnes. The flow still continues. TEPCO may run out of storage space for the treated, still-contaminated, water. There is also a possibility of the highly contaminated water overflowing from the buildings if a problem at the water treatment facility and a heavy rain coincide.
According to the calculation done by Asahi Shinbun based on the data published by TEPCO, about 450 tonnes of ground water per day have been flowing into the buildings of Reactors 1 through 4 since the end of June when the contaminated water treatment facility started the operation. It is considered that there are damages in the walls of the buildings.
The amount of groundwater into the buildings fluctuates with the rainfall. At the end of September when it rained heavily because of a typhoon, the amount of ground water doubled, and about 7,700 tonnes of water seeped into the buildings in that week.
The groundwater would mix with the contaminated water in the basement of the buildings, and this highly contaminated water is being sent to the water treatment facility. After the density of radioactive materials in the water is lowered and salt removed, the treated water is being used for cooling the reactors.
When the circulatory water injection and cooling system started in late June, there were 127,000 tonnes of contaminated water (highly contaminated water plus the treated water with low contamination). However, as the result of the groundwater inflow, there are now 175,000 tonnes of contaminated water, a 40% increase, as of October 18. None of the water could be released outside the plant.
Concentrated, highly saline waste water after the desalination process is stored in the special tanks. As more water is processed, more tanks are needed. TEPCO is installing 20,000 tonnes storage tanks every month. To secure the space for the tanks the company has been cutting down the trees in the plant compound. There is a system to evaporate water to reduce the amount of waste water, but it is not currently used.
The water level in the turbine buildings where the highly contaminated water after the reactor cooling accumulates is 1 meter below the level at which there is a danger of overflowing. It is not the level that would cause immediate overflow after a heavy rain. However, if the heavy rain is coupled with a trouble at the water treatment system that hampers the water circulation, the water level could rise very rapidly.
The treatment capacity of the water treatment facility is 1,400 tonnes per day. TEPCO emphasizes that the facility is running smoothly and the circulatory water injection system is stable. However, if the current situation continues where groundwater keeps coming into the buildings that needs to be treated, the water treatment facility will be taxed with excess load, which may cause a problem.
It is difficult to stop the inflow of groundwater completely, and TEPCO is not planning any countermeasure construction. Regarding the continued inflow of groundwater into the buildings, TEPCO's Junichi Matsumoto says, "We have to come up with a more compact water treatment system in which we can circulate water without using the basements of the buildings. Otherwise we would be stuck in a situation where we have to treat the groundwater coming into the basements." However, there is no prospect of fundamentally solving the problem.
And there will be no such prospect, as TEPCO is now proven to be very good at looking the other way. Over 10 sieverts/hour ultra-hot spot? Not a problem, we will just cordon off the area. What is causing 10 sieverts/hour radiation? Why it's not our problem. How much over 10 sieverts/hour? We don't know because we don't measure such things. High hydrogen concentration in the pipe? Not a problem, we will just blow nitrogen gas. What is causing the high hydrogen concentration? It's not our problem. A worker died after 1 week of work at the plant. Why? It's not our problem, it's the subcontractor's problem...
See how much control Tepco has over the plant? The only cold shutdown they are going to reach is empty reactors. The fuel has been going in and out of criticality, and every line of containment is breached. Without a miracle, this will eventually make Chernobyl, look like 3 mile island. Phonedawgz, before you call me a idiot again, think about the odds of this just going away overnight, if you were honest with yourself you would admit its out of control and Tepco has no game plan. All Tepco is doing is playing PR damage control, they can't control the damage to Japan anymore.
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08:12 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
You really are dense, they will claim cold shutdowns with empty reactors. Saying the reactors are below the cold shutdown temps. They will just neglect to mention the reason the reactors are cold, is the fuel is no longer in them.
You really are an idiot.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-20-2011).]
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08:17 PM
PFF
System Bot
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Time will tell who the idiot is, remember you were questioning that anybody would get cancer. With the limit for Children being met and exceeded in Tokyo, That is going to happen, not to every child, but to the unlucky ones, and no they won't have cancer next month, but some of them will have cancer in their lifetimes, that would not have had it otherwise. Now go back to playing the industry shill, remember some of the people who believe you now, will hold you accountable later.
"In April, the Japanese government raised its maximum limit for children from one to 20 millisieverts per year, a level that leads to 2,270 cancers annually per million people (or 160,000 lifetime cancers per million), according to data in a landmark 2006 U.S. National Academy of Sciences report on radiation cancer risk. A massive outcry later forced the government to reverse the move." http://straight.com/article...-challenged-citizens
However, it seems the limit is back to 20 millisieverts a year for kids. Now tell me no one is expected to die because of this. You sir, are a liar and a deceiver.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 10-20-2011).]
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08:22 PM
dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
Anyone who argues the cooling system of a nuclear power plant is to cool the pressure vessel itself, and not the fuel in the core is indeed an idiot.
The same with someone who argues that Tepco can somehow hide the hundreds to thousand degree heat producing remains of a melted core in the basement of the reactor building and no one will notice.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-20-2011).]
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09:20 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Anyone who argues the cooling system of a nuclear power plant is to cool the pressure vessel itself, and not the fuel in the core is indeed an idiot.
The same with someone who argues that Tepco can somehow hide the hundreds to thousand degree heat producing remains of a melted core in the basement of the reactor building and no one will notice.
You mean the basement where the workers can not get near, because the radioactivity is extremely high despite being flooded, which should act like the spent rod pool, where as long as the water was deep enough the radiation was insulated to safe levels, but instead the surface of the water is dangerous.
I never said the purpose of the cooling system was to cool the pressure vessel, I said most of the fuel is not in the reactor, hence cooling the reactor is easy. Tepco, just likes to leave that fact out, even though they admit all containment is breeched. If all containment is breached and the basement is highly radioactive, what do you think the most logical cause is? Duh.
Anyone who argues the cooling system of a nuclear power plant is to cool the pressure vessel itself, and not the fuel in the core is indeed an idiot.
The same with someone who argues that Tepco can somehow hide the hundreds to thousand degree heat producing remains of a melted core in the basement of the reactor building and no one will notice.
You're as bad at reading comprehension as twofatguys. To qoute Arthur C. Clarke, I think you've been educated beyond your intelligence.
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10:42 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
You explain what he means by this, if you think I got it wrong.
Oh wait, you are also one of those wacko liberals who just make up the facts to fit the story you want to tell also.
Never mind.
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Ok, the melted fuel rods, happy? The melted fuel is most likely in the basement, which would makes the reactor vessel fairly easy to cool without most of the fuel inside. Before you say its in the containment vessels, there are plenty of articles i posted in the past that shows the vessels are breached.
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
You really are dense, they will claim cold shutdowns with empty reactors. Saying the reactors are below the cold shutdown temps. They will just neglect to mention the reason the reactors are cold, is the fuel is no longer in them.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-20-2011).]
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11:13 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
The spent fuel pool has an active cooling system to dissipate the excess heat from the decaying fuel in the rods.
Only a portion of the fuel rods are transferred to the pool during a refueling.
The rods put in the spent fuel pool are 'spent' fuel, not new or partially used fuel.
No, for all these reasons the basement of the reactor is not going to "act as a spent fuel pool".
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
You mean the basement where the workers can not get near, because the radioactivity is extremely high despite being flooded, which should act like the spent rod pool, where as long as the water was deep enough the radiation was insulated to safe levels, but instead the surface of the water is dangerous.
I never said the purpose of the cooling system was to cool the pressure vessel, I said most of the fuel is not in the reactor, hence cooling the reactor is easy. Tepco, just likes to leave that fact out, even though they admit all containment is breeched. If all containment is breached and the basement is highly radioactive, what do you think the most logical cause is? Duh.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-21-2011).]
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11:16 PM
Oct 21st, 2011
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
The spent fuel pool has an active cooling system to dissipate the excess heat from the decaying fuel in the rods.
Only a portion of the fuel rods are transferred to the pool during a refueling.
The rods put in the spent fuel pool are 'spent' fuel, not new or partially used fuel.
No, for all these reasons the basement of the reactor is not going to "act as a spent fuel pool".
If the melted fuel were not in the basement, wouldn't the low level radiation be even lower with the water insulation? Yes, it would and you know it. However, they can't even approach the surface water . In may the water water in the No. 1 reactor building was 5.7 meters. http://www.cbc.ca/news/worl...japan-hard-rain.html Thats 18 feet deep. Its probably deeper now, but I am unsure of the depth of the basement.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 10-21-2011).]
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06:48 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Tokyo - Scientists, environmentalists and citizens groups have called for Japanese authorities to evacuate more areas in the wake of March's nuclear accident after finding wider radiation contamination than officially reported. http://www.monstersandcriti...lear-evacuation-zone
We still regret not having been able to predict that radioactive contamination would spread to the extent that it has. We keep asking ourselves if there was any way we could've sounded a more precise alarm when large volumes of radioactive materials were released on March 14 and March 15, as we continue working toward protecting the public from unnecessary exposure. (By Taku Nishikawa, Science and Environment News Department) http://mdn.mainichi.jp/pers...2a00m0na007000c.html
Japanese residents with Geiger counters found another highly radioactive "hot spot" in a city 18 miles northeast of Tokyo, though officials say they suspect the source of the contamination was something other than the nuclear accident in Fukushima. Officials in the city of Kashiwa said the spot, about one square yard, in an empty lot owned by the city, registered levels as high as 57.5 microsieverts per hour http://online.wsj.com/artic...l?mod=googlenews_wsj
I suggest you re-read my post. What I said is basically is a basement, with water in it, and with or without melted fuel in is NOT the same as the spent fuel pool. It is not for all the reasons listed above.
I did NOT say there is or is not fuel in the basement.
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
If the melted fuel were not in the basement, wouldn't the low level radiation be even lower with the water insulation? Yes, it would and you know it. However, they can't even approach the surface water . In may the water water in the No. 1 reactor building was 5.7 meters. http://www.cbc.ca/news/worl...japan-hard-rain.html Thats 18 feet deep. Its probably deeper now, but I am unsure of the depth of the basement.
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08:16 PM
PFF
System Bot
Oct 22nd, 2011
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
I suggest you re-read my post. What I said is basically is a basement, with water in it, and with or without melted fuel in is NOT the same as the spent fuel pool. It is not for all the reasons listed above.
I did NOT say there is or is not fuel in the basement.
I suggest you answer the question, if there is not melted fuel in the basement, why is the radiation level too hazardous to approach surface water in the basement? If there is fuel in the basement, then its not in the reactors, and that makes cold shot down pretty easy, would not you say? If you notice I am trying not to be hostile despite your actions in the past.
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01:41 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
If significant portion of the hot (temperature) fuel is in the basement where it can't be cooled as effectively it makes achieving a cold shut down much harder. (I think this is the third time I have said this now)
Of course high radiation levels would tend to indicate a breach of coolant or the presence of some portion of melted core. Note the words "tend to indicate'. That means exactly what is states.
DO NOT extrapolate my words to anything more than exactly what I have stated.
DO NOT make factual statements about what what I think based on what YOU think I think.
If the basement is non-pressurized, and the water in the basement is not boiling, that would tend to indicate there is not much of a significant portion of the core in the basement. They are 'injecting' water into the pressure vessel to keep it cool. I have seen nothing that says they are injecting water into the basement to keep it cool.
What actually has happened is something we will find out when the scientists tell us what they actually find.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-22-2011).]
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07:57 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Chiba Pref. city finds major radioactive hot spot on public land
Kashiwa Municipal Government workers take radiation measurements at a site on city land where emissions of 57.5 microsieverts per hour have been detected. (Mainichi)
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KASHIWA, Chiba -- Officials here announced Oct. 21 the city government has discovered a hot spot emitting extremely high radiation of 57.5 microsieverts per hour on a plot of public land in a residential district.
The new hot spot was found within a radius of just one meter. Radiation levels in Kashiwa and its vicinity are relatively high because of the effects of the ongoing Fukushima nuclear crisis, but the latest discovery of such an intense hot spot in the city's Nedokoyadai district came as a surprise. City radiation task force chief Seiichi Someya speculates, "It's hard to imagine that it is due to effects" of the Fukushima crisis.
The city purchased land in the district from the Finance Ministry in around 1957 and built 30 houses, before gradually demolishing them and clearing the land. At one time, the local community borrowed it and used it as a public square.
A resident strolling in the area carrying a dosimeter found the hot spot and notified the city on Oct. 18. City officials checked it with a Geiger counter capable of measuring up to only 10 microsieverts. Chiba Prefecture's environment foundation took its own measurements and recorded the startling 57.5 microsieverts per hour.
On Oct. 21, the city sealed off roads around the hot spot, banned entry within 3 meters and covered the hot spot with sandbags and blue tarps. The city will work with the Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology Ministry to conduct a full-scale check on Oct. 24.
A 44-year-old male, who was born and grew up the area, says he has never heard of anything pertaining to nuclear power in Kashiwa. He says he is worried about his mother, who frequents the area.
Radiation of 3.35 microsieverts per hour was recorded recently in an area of Tokyo's Setagaya Ward, but the culprit turned out to be radium kept in several dozen bottles under the floor of a local house.
If significant portion of the hot (temperature) fuel is in the basement where it can't be cooled as effectively it makes achieving a cold shut down much harder. (I think this is the third time I have said this now)
Of course high radiation levels would tend to indicate a breach of coolant or the presence of some portion of melted core. Note the words "tend to indicate'. That means exactly what is states.
DO NOT extrapolate my words to anything more than exactly what I have stated.
DO NOT make factual statements about what what I think based on what YOU think I think.
If the basement is non-pressurized, and the water in the basement is not boiling, that would tend to indicate there is not much of a significant portion of the core in the basement. They are 'injecting' water into the pressure vessel to keep it cool. I have seen nothing that says they are injecting water into the basement to keep it cool.
What actually has happened is something we will find out when the scientists tell us what they actually find.
Have you missed the articles about the large amount of groundwater flowing through the buildings? That might help keep things cool. I know the melted fuel in the basement would make it harder to achieve cold shutdown, but it would make it easy for them to ignore the fuel in the basement and just tell the media about a "false" cold shutdown based on reactor vessel temps.
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12:18 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Kashiwa Municipal Government workers take radiation measurements at a site on city land where emissions of 57.5 microsieverts per hour have been detected. (Mainichi)
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KASHIWA, Chiba -- Officials here announced Oct. 21 the city government has discovered a hot spot emitting extremely high radiation of 57.5 microsieverts per hour on a plot of public land in a residential district.
The new hot spot was found within a radius of just one meter. Radiation levels in Kashiwa and its vicinity are relatively high because of the effects of the ongoing Fukushima nuclear crisis, but the latest discovery of such an intense hot spot in the city's Nedokoyadai district came as a surprise. City radiation task force chief Seiichi Someya speculates, "It's hard to imagine that it is due to effects" of the Fukushima crisis.
Seems like it was from fukushima, sorry phonedawgz no radioactive paint this time.
"It was from the area where 57.5 µSv/hr was found the other day.
Because the results show Cs-134, with a half life of 2 years, it is obviously from Fukushima, notes Mochizuki, who thinks it was probably dumped there." http://enenews.com/local-go...18-million-bqm%c2%b2
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 10-22-2011).]
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12:23 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
If they are going to lie to the media, they don't need an excuse. They can just lie to the media
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Have you missed the articles about the large amount of groundwater flowing through the buildings? That might help keep things cool. I know the melted fuel in the basement would make it harder to achieve cold shutdown, but it would make it easy for them to ignore the fuel in the basement and just tell the media about a "false" cold shutdown based on reactor vessel temps.
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12:29 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
No, groundwater seeping through the buildings is not anywhere near the same as pumping cooling water into the pressure vessel.
This is a nuclear power plant, It takes quite a lot of water to cool
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Have you missed the articles about the large amount of groundwater flowing through the buildings? That might help keep things cool. I know the melted fuel in the basement would make it harder to achieve cold shutdown, but it would make it easy for them to ignore the fuel in the basement and just tell the media about a "false" cold shutdown based on reactor vessel temps.
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12:30 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
BTW, there has been quite a few articles on steam rising from the ground, put 2 and 2 together.
Do you mean something like this?
The core has melted a huge hole in the pressure vessel. Then the majority of the core has fallen into the flooded basement. They are injecting water into the pressure vessel to cool it, but this massive amount of water isn't going through the hole into the basement, or somehow they can't tell that the water is doing that. Maybe the molten core re-sealed the hole it passed through. But anyways the core is in the basement. It is producing heat, but it's not heating the water in the basement. Well not directly. But somehow the heated water of the basement is seeping out. That highly radioactive water then is heating the ground outside the building causing steam from the surrounding ground, while not causing steam when inside the building.
I guess that is kinda like putting 2 and 2 together.
Putting 2 and 2 together and getting 1 billion.
My suggestion is to wait to find out what is really happening rather than make up facts.
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12:46 PM
PFF
System Bot
jetman Member
Posts: 7794 From: Sterling Heights Mich Registered: Dec 2002
May I pop in here for a moment and please ask what the situation is at this time? Are they getting a handle on this or are they in serious trouble?
On the other hand, if you want to read every 'way out there' report of what might be going on, and how one of the reactors is going critical and somehow spitting concentrated radioactive hot spots up to hundreds of miles away may I suggest
On the other hand, if you want to read every 'way out there' report of what might be going on, and how one of the reactors is going critical and somehow spitting concentrated radioactive hot spots up to hundreds of miles away may I suggest
Keep down playing, I had said the pressure vessel was breeched, you called bs. I said the containment vessel was breached you called bs. Guess what, time has shown I was right. I am saying there is at least some fuel in the basement, you call BS. If history repeats, I will be right and you will be wrong again. Have a nice day, and phonedawgz anyone can go back through these threads and see I am telling the truth so trying to marginalize me won't work. Time for another strategy.
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01:55 AM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
May I pop in here for a moment and please ask what the situation is at this time? Are they getting a handle on this or are they in serious trouble?
Tokyo - Scientists, environmentalists and citizens groups have called for Japanese authorities to evacuate more areas in the wake of March's nuclear accident after finding wider radiation contamination than officially reported. http://www.monstersandcriti...lear-evacuation-zone
What do you think?
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01:57 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Keep down playing, I had said the pressure vessel was breeched, you called bs. I said the containment vessel was breached you called bs. Guess what, time has shown I was right. I am saying there is at least some fuel in the basement, you call BS. If history repeats, I will be right and you will be wrong again. Have a nice day, and phonedawgz anyone can go back through these threads and see I am telling the truth so trying to marginalize me won't work. Time for another strategy.
Oh look, you are wrong again.
You did not say 'there is at least some fuel in the basement", what you said is
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
I am sure they are on target for cold shutdown, thats not hard when most of the rods are in the basement.
And look what I said about there being fuel in the basement YESTERDAY
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:
...I did NOT say there is or is not fuel in the basement.
and regarding melting of the core and breaching of the containment systems here is what I said
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:
Remember also there is no way for them to know what is exactly happening inside the core. There are no webcams inside the pressure vessel. The only way they know what is happening is to look at what is coming out and sometime later to disassemble it. That will happen sometime but far into the future. ......
And look what I said back on 4/1
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:
Chernobyl didn't have a "full melt down". It had an explosion and fire of the core and graphite components. Chernobyl did not have containment. Burning graphite combined with radioactive particles caused a highly radioactive plume. This is nothing even remotely close to that. Chernobyl was a crime when it was built.
Anyone who said containment could not be breached was clearly mistaken. Containment is intended to contain the radioactive particles. Clearly containment can be breached.
Clearly you people have no idea what is going on. Clearly you have no intentions of actually understanding what is going on. Clearly all you want to do is pump up this into the largest possible accident you can. It's extremely frustrating trying to again and again and again try to put the actual facts straight.
So if you are successful at damning nuclear power and then burn up more coal instead thus killing the world will you be happy? I'd much rather work with the REAL facts.
And on 4/3
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:
An exploding core is not a melting core. Blow up the core and then worry about the rods melting? I don't think so. The rods were already breached. Then the graphite fire sent radioactive particles in the air.
Kinda hard to have a 'full meltdown' when you no longer have a full core. Kinda hard to have your definition of 'full meltdown' that 'breaches containment' when the Russian plant lacked containment.
Here is a piece of the graphite core that was ejected in the explosion. The hole is for a control rod to be inserted.
I see you failed to quote where supposedly I said the containment could not be breached. You lack credibility.
Your made up 180+ people to die lacks any credibility.
Well actually most of your statements here lack any credibility
So in short you again and again are wrong. You again and again and again and again state that I said this or I said that when I didn't.
You are a person who clearly feels no need to use actual facts when you can just make them up.
As you can see by the previous quote, I used to say your statements lacked credibility. Then I later I called you a wacko for continuing to post those kind of things. Then I went to calling you an idiot for posting things that clearly weren't based on facts.
You continue to post statements that you attribute to me that are just things that you have made up in your mind.
That is what makes you an idiot dennis_6
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 10-23-2011).]
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05:19 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
So in short you again and again are wrong. You again and again and again and again state that I said this or I said that when I didn't.
You are a person who clearly feels no need to use actual facts when you can just make them up.
As you can see by the previous quote, I used to say your statements lacked credibility. Then I later I called you a wacko for continuing to post those kind of things. Then I went to calling you an idiot for posting things that clearly weren't based on facts.
You continue to post statements that you attribute to me that are just things that you have made up in your mind.
That is what makes you an idiot dennis_6
I can bend and twist everything you say too and then call you a idiot. It would just make me as low as you are. You can leave things in context or stop quoting them. I love how left out the bit, where you called bs on people hearing containment breach on the news, because they didn't have a link. No, links to live tv or radio, btw. So keep spinning, time is showing everyone your game.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 10-23-2011).]
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12:07 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Chiba Pref. city finds major radioactive hot spot on public land
Kashiwa Municipal Government workers take radiation measurements at a site on city land where emissions of 57.5 microsieverts per hour have been detected. (Mainichi)
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KASHIWA, Chiba -- Officials here announced Oct. 21 the city government has discovered a hot spot emitting extremely high radiation of 57.5 microsieverts per hour on a plot of public land in a residential district.
The new hot spot was found within a radius of just one meter. Radiation levels in Kashiwa and its vicinity are relatively high because of the effects of the ongoing Fukushima nuclear crisis, but the latest discovery of such an intense hot spot in the city's Nedokoyadai district came as a surprise. City radiation task force chief Seiichi Someya speculates, "It's hard to imagine that it is due to effects" of the Fukushima crisis.
The city purchased land in the district from the Finance Ministry in around 1957 and built 30 houses, before gradually demolishing them and clearing the land. At one time, the local community borrowed it and used it as a public square.
A resident strolling in the area carrying a dosimeter found the hot spot and notified the city on Oct. 18. City officials checked it with a Geiger counter capable of measuring up to only 10 microsieverts. Chiba Prefecture's environment foundation took its own measurements and recorded the startling 57.5 microsieverts per hour.
On Oct. 21, the city sealed off roads around the hot spot, banned entry within 3 meters and covered the hot spot with sandbags and blue tarps. The city will work with the Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology Ministry to conduct a full-scale check on Oct. 24.
A 44-year-old male, who was born and grew up the area, says he has never heard of anything pertaining to nuclear power in Kashiwa. He says he is worried about his mother, who frequents the area.
Radiation of 3.35 microsieverts per hour was recorded recently in an area of Tokyo's Setagaya Ward, but the culprit turned out to be radium kept in several dozen bottles under the floor of a local house.
I love the bold and the underline because you have just backed the wrong horse again.
Sunday, Oct. 23, 2011
Science ministry reverses government claims after on-site survey finds high amouts of cesium Kashiwa hot spot linked to Fukushima Kyodo, Staff report
CHIBA — The science ministry said Sunday the high radiation detected on city-owned land in Kashiwa, Chiba Prefecture, is emanating from cesium that was probably ejected by the crippled Fukushima No. 1 power plant, contradicting earlier government claims.
When the Kashiwa Municipal Government first received a report about an airborne radiation reading of 57.7 microsieverts per hour at the site, it said the radiation was unlikely to be related to the Fukushima disaster because it was coming from such a tiny area.
On Sunday, the science ministry and the city government found a side ditch near the reported hot spot during a joint survey and said it is highly likely that rain tainted with fallout from the Fukushima plant was running into nearby soil.
Earlier surveyors who dug deeper into the soil at the hot spot recorded higher levels of radiation, leading some experts to speculate that the contaminated soil came from elsewhere and might have been deliberately buried there.
But the ministry has confirmed that rain water is leaching out of the ditch and into the soil at the spot, ministry officials said at a new conference Sunday.
Up to 276,000 becquerels of cesium per kilogram of soil was detected 30 cm below the surface of the hot spot Friday after an abnormal level of airborne radiation was found earlier in the week, the municipality said.
"If fallout from the Fukushima plant naturally falls onto the ground, it'd be unthinkable that the radiation level would be higher deep in the soil than on the surface," said Masako Sawai, researcher at Citizens' Nuclear Information Center, a Tokyo-based antinuclear activist group, before the science ministry's press conference Sunday.
The 'blob' will eventually stabilize. The problem is the release of radioactive particles until it does. Sand won't cool the blob. Boric acid doesn't 'stop' the decay, it stops the nuclear reaction. They decay will continue for quite some time. It produces heat. You don't want that heat to atomize and send aloft the particles.
At the power plant I worked at the heat from the spent fuel pools was captured and used. The decaying fuel would make the water glow btw. That is where the whole nuclear "glowing" thing got started. The water in the spent fuel pools provided enough of a 'radioactive shield' that you could be right next to it and not be in a high 'hot zone'. It was higher than normal however, but well within 'safe' tolerances. I never made it inside containment. You couldn't enter containment while the reactor was running. It was just too radioactivly 'hot' then. I did make it right up to the containment walls however.
Its been how long? Shouldn't the "blob" be stabilized, by now? How the iodine they keep finding with a half life of 8 days?
