Workers at Japan nuclear plant recall tsunami desperation
By Harumi Ozawa (AFP) – 10 hours ago
TOKYO — The embattled operator of Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has released workers' accounts of the desperate moments surrounding the huge earthquake and tsunami that triggered an atomic crisis.
At a hearing into the March disaster, a chief operator described how he realised disaster had hit when lights flickered and went out, including those on the control panels, according to an interim report released Friday by the Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO).
"I came to realise a tsunami had hit the site as one of the workers rushed into the room, shouting 'Sea water is gushing in!'", the unnamed chief operator was quoted as saying.
"I felt totally at a loss after losing power sources," he said. "Other workers appeared anxious. They argued, and one asked: 'Is there any reason for us to be here when there is nothing we can do to control (the reactors)?'"
"I bowed and begged them to stay."
The 9.0-magnitude earthquake and subsequent tsunami on March 11 paralysed electrical and cooling systems at the nuclear power plant, triggering the world's worst nuclear crisis since Chernobyl 25 years ago.
Friday's interim report was the first to detail testimonies from workers, who were hailed as heroes in the weeks following the accident as they took extreme health risks to try to prevent a worse nuclear disaster.
They described attempts to release pressure from a reactor container by manually opening a ventilation valve.
"We put on the full protection gear but couldn't possibly let young workers do the task, as we had to go into an area where the radiation levels were high," one worker recalled.
"When I got to the place to open the valve, I heard eerie, deep popping noise from the torus (a donut-shaped structure at the bottom of the reactor)," he said.
"When I put one of my feet on the torus to reach the valve, my black rubber boot melted and slipped (due to the heat)."
The operators also spoke of dismal working conditions as they battled to stabilise the crippled plant.
"We experienced big aftershocks, and many times we had to run up a hill in desperation (fearing a tsunami) with the full-face mask still on," one worker said.
Another worker spoke of the race to lay power cables and bring back the supply of electricity, saying: "We finished the work (in one section) in several hours, although it usually requires one month or two."
"It was an operation we had to do in puddles, fearing electrification," the worker said.
Explosions and fires at the plant unleashed dangerous levels of radiation, forcing TEPCO to pull out hundreds of workers, leaving just a few dozen behind.
Those workers earned the nickname "the Fukushima Fifty", but that number eventually swelled again by thousands, including technicians sent from partners such as Toshiba and Hitachi.
They were tasked with keeping cooling water flowing into the six reactors at the plant, three of which eventually overheated and experienced meltdowns.
Despite a series of setbacks in the past nine months, the Japanese government and TEPCO say they remain on track to declare a cold shutdown later this month, about a month earlier than initially planned.
The atomic accident has not directly claimed any lives but has left tens of thousands of people displaced and rendered whole towns uninhabitable because of radiation, possibly for decades. The quake-tsunami killed about 20,000 people.
In a recent interview with AFP, Goshi Hosono, state minister in charge of nuclear accident settlement and prevention, hailed the plant workers for their battle to tame the crippled reactors.
"It was the emergency workers at the plant who have contributed to it the most," he said. "We are finally seeing the goal of cold shutdown in sight. The workers' efforts must be highly applauded."
But Hosono, when he visited the plant last month, also cautioned that 30 years' work remained to be done to dismantle the machinery.
Last month, then Fukushima Daiichi plant chief Masao Yoshida told state broadcaster NHK: "In the first week immediately after the accident I thought a few times 'I'm going to die.'"
The containment vessel consists of both the steel and the concrete surrounding the steel.
The containment vessel is not the drywell, they are two different things. The drywell is the last line of defense in primary containment. The containment vessel is inside the drywell.
Tepco claims that fuel has penetrated most of the way through the drywell, but not yet made it to the containment vessel. That is a blatant lie, seeing as the containment vessel would first have to be breeched for fuel to make it to the drywell.
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01:08 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
The containment vessel is not the drywell, they are two different things. The drywell is the last line of defense in primary containment. The containment vessel is inside the drywell.
Tepco claims that fuel has penetrated most of the way through the drywell, but not yet made it to the containment vessel. That is a blatant lie, seeing as the containment vessel would first have to be breeched for fuel to make it to the drywell.
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01:14 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Workers at Japan nuclear plant recall tsunami desperation
By Harumi Ozawa (AFP) – 10 hours ago
TOKYO — The embattled operator of Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has released workers' accounts of the desperate moments surrounding the huge earthquake and tsunami that triggered an atomic crisis.
At a hearing into the March disaster, a chief operator described how he realised disaster had hit when lights flickered and went out, including those on the control panels, according to an interim report released Friday by the Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO).
"I came to realise a tsunami had hit the site as one of the workers rushed into the room, shouting 'Sea water is gushing in!'", the unnamed chief operator was quoted as saying.
"I felt totally at a loss after losing power sources," he said. "Other workers appeared anxious. They argued, and one asked: 'Is there any reason for us to be here when there is nothing we can do to control (the reactors)?'"
"I bowed and begged them to stay."
The 9.0-magnitude earthquake and subsequent tsunami on March 11 paralysed electrical and cooling systems at the nuclear power plant, triggering the world's worst nuclear crisis since Chernobyl 25 years ago.
Friday's interim report was the first to detail testimonies from workers, who were hailed as heroes in the weeks following the accident as they took extreme health risks to try to prevent a worse nuclear disaster.
They described attempts to release pressure from a reactor container by manually opening a ventilation valve.
"We put on the full protection gear but couldn't possibly let young workers do the task, as we had to go into an area where the radiation levels were high," one worker recalled.
"When I got to the place to open the valve, I heard eerie, deep popping noise from the torus (a donut-shaped structure at the bottom of the reactor)," he said.
"When I put one of my feet on the torus to reach the valve, my black rubber boot melted and slipped (due to the heat)."
The operators also spoke of dismal working conditions as they battled to stabilise the crippled plant.
"We experienced big aftershocks, and many times we had to run up a hill in desperation (fearing a tsunami) with the full-face mask still on," one worker said.
Another worker spoke of the race to lay power cables and bring back the supply of electricity, saying: "We finished the work (in one section) in several hours, although it usually requires one month or two."
"It was an operation we had to do in puddles, fearing electrification," the worker said.
Explosions and fires at the plant unleashed dangerous levels of radiation, forcing TEPCO to pull out hundreds of workers, leaving just a few dozen behind.
Those workers earned the nickname "the Fukushima Fifty", but that number eventually swelled again by thousands, including technicians sent from partners such as Toshiba and Hitachi.
They were tasked with keeping cooling water flowing into the six reactors at the plant, three of which eventually overheated and experienced meltdowns.
Despite a series of setbacks in the past nine months, the Japanese government and TEPCO say they remain on track to declare a cold shutdown later this month, about a month earlier than initially planned.
The atomic accident has not directly claimed any lives but has left tens of thousands of people displaced and rendered whole towns uninhabitable because of radiation, possibly for decades. The quake-tsunami killed about 20,000 people.
In a recent interview with AFP, Goshi Hosono, state minister in charge of nuclear accident settlement and prevention, hailed the plant workers for their battle to tame the crippled reactors.
"It was the emergency workers at the plant who have contributed to it the most," he said. "We are finally seeing the goal of cold shutdown in sight. The workers' efforts must be highly applauded."
But Hosono, when he visited the plant last month, also cautioned that 30 years' work remained to be done to dismantle the machinery.
Last month, then Fukushima Daiichi plant chief Masao Yoshida told state broadcaster NHK: "In the first week immediately after the accident I thought a few times 'I'm going to die.'"
They grew from 50 to thousands shortly after I made the comment they wouldn't live long. If it had only been 50 doing all the work, they would have been dead by exposure now. There have been worker deaths, Tepco claims not radiation related, but Tepco is hardly a credible source.
You really should be a politician, you have the half truth smear campaign down pat.
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02:59 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
While I was looking for your previous foolish statements on the Fukushima 50 I came across this foolish statement about Raidoactive iodine not being a problem since it has a short half life.
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Radioactive iodine, won't be around long enough to cause cumalative dosage problems. You knew exactly what I was talking about, I may have had to explain it more clearly to someone with no understanding of radiation, but you are a self proclaimed expert, so this just illustrates they way you operate.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-03-2011).]
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03:42 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
While I was looking for your previous foolish statements on the Fukushima 50 I came across this foolish statement about Raidoactive iodine not being a problem since it has a short half life.
I stand by that. Iodine 131 would have been undetectable in a month, if Tepco had been telling the truth about no chance of criticality, the iodine 131 would have been a non issue in a month. So would you like to admit that criticality has happened multiple times to produce the iodine or look a fool? Long life isotopes would have been a problem for much longer than 30 days. I wasn't claiming a massive dose of Iodine 131 internally wouldn't be a issue, I was implying that in 30 days the iodine would be undetectable, hence long term exposure effects were a non issue.
Now try another half truth you failed on this one.
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06:30 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
In a month the amount of Iodine 131 will be reduced to a little over 6% of what you started with. It will not "be undetectable in a month"
Cumulative dosage is the total amount of radiation your body has received. It doesn't matter if it was short term or long term.
Half of the Iodine 131 atoms will decay in 8 days. That means your body will receive (accumulate) the radiation extremely faster than the something that has a half life of years.
So your statement "Radioactive iodine, won't be around long enough to cause cumalative dosage problems." The cumulative dosage of radioactive iodine caused the highest cases of cancer traceable to Cherynobyl.
-----
Tepco has stated the iodine measured is from decay.
------
To claim the reactor is going in and out of criticality is a ludicrous.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-03-2011).]
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07:13 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
In a month the amount of Iodine 131 will be reduced to a little over 6% of what you started with. It will not "be undetectable in a month"
Cumulative dosage is the total amount of radiation your body has received. It doesn't matter if it was short term or long term.
Half of the Iodine 131 atoms will decay in 8 days. That means your body will receive (accumulate) the radiation extremely faster than the something that has a half life of years.
So your statement "Radioactive iodine, won't be around long enough to cause cumalative dosage problems." The cumulative dosage of radioactive iodine caused the highest cases of cancer traceable to Cherynobyl.
-----
Tepco has stated the iodine measured is from decay.
------
To claim the reactor is going in and out of criticality is a ludicrous.
Most of the things Tepco stated has turned out ludicrous, along with your backing of said statements. Most people understand that they have a greater chance of being exposed to something that will be around for a lifetime such as Cesium, rather than Iodine, that will have a tiny fraction of its radioactivity in a month. As for undetectable in a month, it depends on the sensitivity of the test equipment. Chernobyl was evacuated pretty quickly, its not hard to see why most of the cancer cases were iodine related. The people did not remain in the area long enough to pick up considerable doses of cesium.
If you had a choice between two sandwiches, one contaminated with Iodine 131 and the other with Cesium, both at 10,000 Bq, which would you eat? I think the answer is obvious, the cesium will be present for the rest of your life, the iodine will not. Lets keep it balanced and throw in iodine tablets to help prevent thyroid problems.
Btw, I agree with the decay statement Iodine 131 is created by the decay of Xenon, which is a fission product. Thus indicating criticality.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-03-2011).]
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07:44 PM
PFF
System Bot
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Again and again and again and again and again you are wrong
Again.
From a radioactive standpoint, within a year over 99% of the iodine will have decayed irradiating your body.
If you dealing with cesium 135 with a half life of 2,300,000 years less than 0.00004% of the cesium will have decayed.
Clearly the cesium would be the safer sandwich.
Yes - despite what your wacko liberal friends say, longer half life radioactive elements are 'safer' than short half life ones.
You missed the key point again, I stated they were emitting the same amount. Not a per kg, where the faster decay of iodine would cause it to have a higher radioactivity, but two isotopes at the same radioactivity. So you fail again. This shows your complete lack of understanding.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-03-2011).]
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08:17 PM
Dec 4th, 2011
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Your right consuming 104,937,500 times more of a quantity of radioactive cesium would be worse for you than a single quantity of radioactive iodine.
But back to the real world, the same quantity of a short lived radioactive element is more dangerous than the same quantity of a long lived radioactive element.
Your previous statement still stands as wrong.
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06:42 AM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Your right consuming 104,937,500 times more of a quantity of radioactive cesium would be worse for you than a single quantity of radioactive iodine.
But back to the real world, the same quantity of a short lived radioactive element is more dangerous than the same quantity of a long lived radioactive element.
Your previous statement still stands as wrong.
Nobody argued it wasn't, and my previous statement was not based on quantity, but radioactivity. Hence it was not wrong.
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12:52 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Russian police confiscate radioactive Japanese car tyres Sapa-dpa | 01 December, 2011 10:07 Police in the Russian Pacific port city Vladivostok confiscated a shipping container from Japan that had dozens of radioactive car tyres in it, the Interfax news agency reported on Thursday.
A total 29 tyres in the shipment were emitting excess levels of gamma and beta rays, making them unsafe to bring into Russia, a port official said.
"There's a good chance the radioactive tyres are a result of the Fukushima accident," said Ivan Skogorev, a safety inspector.
The tyres' owner might have them decontaminated, shipped backed to Japan or buried in a hazardous waste site in Russia; but as yet the shipment's consignee had not come forward, Skogorev said.
Vladivostok custom officials in April halted a batch of 49 radioactive automobiles exported from Japan, some of which were found to emit dangerous isotopes at six times safe levels. A similar incident was reported in June.
Russia's Far Eastern region is a major consumer of used Japanese automobiles.
Japan's Fukushima nuclear power station suffered a series of nuclear meltdowns as a result of an earthquake.
Another highly educated alarmist wacko, that is trumped by the unlimited knowledge of one Packers fan, on a car forum, that worked less than a year at a nuclear power plant. I am shocked the media, Tepco, and the IAEA doesn't have his phone ringing off the hook. -------------------------------------------
Dr. Sebastian Pflugbeil “Tokyo is on the path of Kiev” Posted by Mochizuki on December 2nd, 2011 · 9 Comments
Dr. Sebastian Pflugbeil, the chairman of German Society of Radiation Protection had a lecture in Berlin,and talked about Tokyo.
To the question about what we can do to minimize the damage of the accident, he answered:
“Nothing. There is no way to stop the nuclear fuel that has melted-through leaking. All we could do is to pray for the fuel not to touch the underground water vein.
We must avoid internal exposure from contaminated food. Authorities are trying to make Japanese eat polluted food for their twisted patriotism, but on the other hand, citizens are setting up independent labs around Japan. This is very important. However, lab facility costs are huge. Maintenance, recording the data costs too. Now, the best thing Germans can do is to support those independent facilities financially.”
To another question “How dangerous Tokyo is now?” He answered:
“Tokyo is not the safe area. Now Tokyo is in the similar situation to Kiev in Chernobyl. Ukrainian Government couldn’t define that densely populated area, Kiev, as evacuating area so they did not admit Kiev was threatened and manipulated the radiation map to look like Plutonium stopped just before Kiev.”
Around in Kiev, there were 11 million children in 1990, and now there are 8 million. However, the number of deformed babies is the same, which means the ratio of deformation is increasing. Low dose exposure obviously affects DNA. Only 10 % of babies sent to Kiev hospital can live longer than 1 year.
The Society for Radiation Protection was founded in 1990 because in the opinion of the founding members the older professional societies and associations have not adequately considered and implemented the present knowledge of radiation risks and radiation protection. The radiation Protection Society is an international professional society. In accordance with its statutes the society pursues besides other aims the best possible protection of humans and the environment from the detrimental action of ionising and non ionising radiation. The dealing with ionising and non ionising radiation can only be justified on the basis of biological and medical state of the art knowledge.
He did study physics for 5 years but no degree is listed.
He did co-found a church
quote
Pflugbeil seminar was co-founder of the Peace of Lutheran Immanuel church in Berlin.
He apparently has never training or had worked in the nuclear power industry.
quote
Sebastian Pflugbeil (* September 14 1947 in Bergen on Rügen ) is a German physicist and civil rights . He was co-founder in 1989 of the New Forum and 1990, Minister without portfolio in the last SED-led DDR -government ( Modrow government ). Contents [ Hide ] One life Two publications 3 Literature 4 Web Links 5 Notes and references Life [ Edit ]
The son of the church musician Hans Pflugbeil and harpsichordist Annelise Pflugbeil (founder of Greifswald Bachwoche ) studied from 1966 to 1971 physics at the Ernst-Moritz-Arndt University of Greifswald and was then assistant at the Central Institute for Cardiovascular Research of the Academy of Sciences of the GDR in Berlin -book . His dissertation A for basic biomedical research released in 1983. Pflugbeil seminar was co-founder of the Peace of Lutheran Immanuel church in Berlin. After the Chernobyl disaster in 1986, he worked on behalf of the Federation of Evangelical Churches in the GDR on a study of problems of nuclear energy policy in the GDR. In 1989 he co-founded the New Forum (NF) and NF-speaker at the Berlin headquarters and at the roundtable . In February 1990 he was minister without portfolio in the GDR. During this time he collected documents about nuclear power plants in the GDR, which he detailed in a paper for the People's Chamber concluded. [1] 1990 to 1994 he worked as a representative group of Members New Forum / Member of the citizens' movements Berlin House of Representatives . Since 1993 he is chairman of the association Children of Chernobyl . He is one of the few to the inside of the sarcophagus - the concrete protective shell around the exploded reactor - have inspected. [2] He is an ordinary member of the International Ecological Academy . Since 1999, President Pflugbeil the Society for Radiological Protection e. V. [3] caused a sensation his hypothesis that the leukemia cluster Elbmarsch to an accident in illegal nuclear experiments in September 1986 at the GKSS-Forschungszentrum Geesthacht was due. [4] [5] End of 2001 he initiated the call , we're tired of the representatives of the former East German opposition was signed. [6] Publications [ Edit ]
with Christa Gurk & Fritz Wolter process computer-aided experimental system for use in animal experimental hypertension research, a contribution to the experiment automation in biomedical basic research. Dissertation. Academy of Sciences of the GDR, Berlin 1983 (Eds): upright in the wind. Children of '89 remember. Evangelical Publishing Institute, Leipzig, 2010, ISBN 978-3-374-02802-3 Literature [ Edit ]
Helmut Müller-Enbergs , Jan Wielgohs: Pflugbeil, Sebastian . In: Who was who in the GDR? 5th Issue. Ch Links Verlag, Berlin 2010, ISBN 978-3-86153-561-4 , volume 2
Well he does look better than the last wacko who couldn't figure what to do with the radiation measurements in volume vs measurements in area.
Anti-nuke, yes. Wacko, no. Sebastian Pflugbeil Sebastian Pflugbeil, photo: Robert-Havemann-Gesellschaft / Dirk Vogel
Dr. rer. nat. Sebastian Pflugbeil was a Minister in the interim government of the former GDR under Modrow (1990) and a member of the Berlin Parliament (1990-1995). He worked for a long time as a physicist on pure medical research. For the past 30 years, Sebastian Pflugbeil has been occupied with educating the public on the effects of nuclear weapons and the risks of nuclear energy. He was one of the founders of the “Neues Forum” (the group that campaigned for more freedom in the GDR) and was particularly active in working for the closure of East German nuclear power plants and for an end to uranium mining in Wismut.
Sebastian Pflugbeil is one of the co-founders of Tschernobylhilfe (Aid for Chernobyl). He has accumulated a great deal of experience over the years in humanitarian and medical aid through his work in the region around Chernobyl. Today he is the President of the Society for Radiological Protection in Germany. He is also co-editor of the magazine STRAHLENTELEX. His main topics of work include: criticism of the German Radiation Protection Ordinance, the risks of low-level radiation, radioactivity and secret service, the effects of nuclear weapons, nuclear weapons policies in former West Germany, the effects of Chernobyl, nuclear victims and education on the background to the leukemia clusters in the area of the Elbmarsch.
To the question about what we can do to minimize the damage of the accident, he answered:
“Nothing. There is no way to stop the nuclear fuel that has melted-through leaking. All we could do is to pray for the fuel not to touch the underground water vein.
Now per Tepco's simulation at the worst case reactor, the core melted 70 cm of the concrete. And per the simulation for it to make it out of the plant it would need to melt and additional 950 cm. Now since it has been months since the core was hot enough to melt concrete there is not much of a chance of that. The water being circulated in the containment vessel is coming out with a delta of somewhere between 5 and 20 degrees. The temperature is about 50 deg C. The way I see it there is not much of a worry anymore of "the fuel not to touch the underground water vein".
If you want to worry about something, worry about contaminated water reaching the underground water supply. That is a whole lot more likely to occur.
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11:55 PM
PFF
System Bot
Dec 5th, 2011
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Japanese nuclear regulators have ordered Tepco to investigate the cause of a leak from a plant used to treat contaminated water at the damaged Fukushima Daiichi plant.
Puddles of leaked water around evaporative condensation apparatus at Fukushima (Image: Tepco)
A puddle of around 45 cubic metres of water was discovered inside a containment barrier around the evaporative condensation apparatus on 4 December. The apparatus is used to desalinate concentrated salt water produced during the treatment of radioactively contaminated water. Treated water is then re-used for cooling the stricken reactors at the site.
Subsequent investigations revealed a crack in the concrete barrier through which water was leaking into a gutter. The leak was stopped with sandbags, and the water that had accumulated inside the barrier was transferred by pump to a waste liquid storage tank.
The gutter into which the water had leaked is connected to the power station's central drainage channel. Plant owner Tokyo Electric Power Company (Tepco) reports that water samples taken from the water channel near the desalination apparatus and also at the seaward end of the drain returned radionuclide analyses that were similar to "or slightly higher" than previous readings, although samples taken the following day showed levels no different to those recorded before the leak.
Japan's Nuclear Industrial Safety Agency has instructed Tepco to investigate the cause of the leak and to take steps to prevent any similar incidents in future. Since there was a leak through the concrete barrier, the regulator has also instructed the company to immediately confirm the soundness of other barrages and strengthen them if necessary, as well as confirming the range and amount of the leakage, whether or not there was any discharge to the ocean, and evaluating the impact of any radioactive materials on the surrounding area. Reports from the Japanese national broadcaster NHK have suggested that although the level of radioactive caesium in the water had been reduced in the decontamination process, the water may have contained 130,000 becquerels per cubic centimetre of radioactive strontium.
Researched and written by World Nuclear News
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-05-2011).]
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05:33 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Fukushima plant springs new water leak Strontium spike feared; sandbags used to halt flow
By MINORU MATSUTANI Staff writer
Some 45 tons of highly radioactive water leaked Sunday from desalination equipment used to decontaminate the radioactive water in Tokyo Electric Power Co.'s Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant and it is unclear if any made it to the sea, a Tepco official said Monday.
The water is believed to have high concentrations of strontium, which can cause bone cancer if ingested. The decontamination system Tepco is using to stablize the crippled reactors mainly removes cesium, but does little to mitigate strontium.
It is not known if some of the leaked water reached the sea, the water table or flowed off the plant's premises. Tepco used sandbags Sunday to contain the water, 300 liters of which escaped from a concrete machine building through a crack, Tepco spokesman Hiroki Kawamata said. The machine building, which houses the decontamination equipment, is on the landward side of the reactors.
"Even if all 300 liters reached the sea, the radiation would be diluted, and the amount that escaped is tiny compared with what has already leaked into the sea (on earlier occasions)," said Genichiro Wakabayashi, a radiology professor at Kinki University, playing down the potential danger of the leak. "The leak (even if to the sea or to the groundwater) would not be enough to increase radiation levels in marine or agricultural products in the Tohoku region," he said.
Beta ray radiation of 110 millisieverts per hour was detected in the air over in a gutter outside the building where the water pooled, along with gamma ray radiation of 1.8 millisieverts per hour, Tepco said. Beta rays do not travel far and are easily stopped by thin material, including clothing. Gamma rays, however, are much more powerful. Strontium mainly emits beta rays, while cesium emits gamma rays.
The numbers compare with about 2.0 microsieverts of hourly atmospheric radiation in Iitate, Fukushima Prefecture, where residents were ordered to evacuate.
The utility is testing seawater samples taken off the coast near the plant to see if it is contaminated with strontium. It will know the results in about two to three weeks, Tepco said.
The machine building houses one of the two sets of desalination systems. In the early stages of the meltdown crisis, Tepco used seawater to cool the overheated reactors for a couple of weeks because coolant water stopped circulating when the March 11 tsunami knocked out the power generators.
The system that suffered the leak had been shut down. Operations resumed around 2:30 p.m. Saturday and the leak was detected at around 11:30 a.m. Sunday, Kawamata said.
A worker found the leak spewing from the desalination apparatus and out of a crack in the wall of the building, prompting Tepco to quickly switch off the machine, he said. The leaked water probably flowed through the gutter outside the wall because air above a concrete lid on the gutter had an unusually high radiation reading, he added. http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/nn20111205x1.html
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10:47 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Published: December 5th, 2011 at 08:54 AM EDT | Email Article Email Article By Enenews Admin 52 comments 5.8 trillion becquerels of strontium leaked from Fukushima over weekend
Tepco Press Release, Dec. 5: “At 11:33 am on December 4, workers found that there was puddle water inside the barrier around the evaporative condensation apparatus (estimated volume of water was approx. 45 m3 [1 cubic meter of water = 1 metric ton]).”
NHK: “The water is believed to have contained 130,000 becquerels per cubic centimeter of radioactive strontium.”
New York Times: “Tepco said a check on Saturday had found no sign of the leak, suggesting that it began Saturday night or early Sunday morning. The company said it was exploring ways to stop any more water from escaping.”
45 metric tons = 45,000 kg = 45,000,000 cubic centimeters * 130,000 becquerels per cubic centimeter of strontium = 5,850,000,000,000 Bq strontium
Nasushiobara sudden death of Mayor, the fundraising evening street
* * * * * * 携帯に送る * ヘルプ
栃木県那須塩原市の栗川仁市長が４日夜、胸部大動脈 Mayor Jin chestnut four night river Nasushiobara, Tochigi Prefecture thoracic aorta 瘤 Bump ( ( りゅう Dragon ) ) 破裂のため市内の病院で急逝した。 The city hospital for acute rupture.
６７歳だった。 He was 67. 告別式は未定。 Funeral to be determined.
栗川氏は同市出身。 Mr. Chestnut was born in the river city. １９８３年、旧黒磯市議に初当選し、５期目途中の２００３年に同市長に初当選した。 1983, first elected to City Council Kuroiso former mayor was first elected in 2003 as the first five quarters of the way. ０５年、同市と旧西那須野町、旧塩原町の合併後の那須塩原市長選で初当選し、２期目だった。 In 2005, the city and old town Nishinasuno, the first elected mayor in the town after the merger Nasushiobara yuh old, had a second term.
４日は、午後１時から塩原温泉 4 days, Shiobara Onsen at 1:00 pm 女将 Mistress ( ( おかみ Proprietress ) ) もちつき祭に出席し、寒風の中であいさつ。 Have attended the festival with, greeting in the cold wind. 歳末助け合いの街頭募金活動も行っていた。 Also had a mutual aid fund-raising activities year-end street. 同日午後６時２０分頃、自宅で食事中にかかってきた職員からの電話に出ている最中に急に苦しみ出し、救急車で病院に運ばれたが、同７時５９分、死亡が確認された。 At around 20:06 yesterday afternoon, out suffering suddenly while on the line of the staff had taken during a meal at home, was taken to hospital by ambulance, 59 minutes at 7 as has been confirmed dead other. ０６年１２月、直腸がんで入院手術した際、胸腹部に大動脈瘤が見つかったが手術はしていなかった。 In December 2006, when hospitalized for rectal cancer surgery, surgery on the thoracoabdominal aortic aneurysm was found were not. 今年１０月、細菌性腸炎で２週間入院した。 In October, was hospitalized for two weeks bacterial enteritis.
栗川氏は、合併による旧市町間の融和に力を注いだ。 Mr. Chestnut River, between harmony poured into force by the former municipal merger. 後援会は１０月の拡大役員会で、１３年２月の同市長選に３選を目指して出馬するよう要請したが、栗川氏は１１月１０日に開かれた後援会主催の市政報告会で、「市政運営に批判もいただ が、やることだけはきちんとやる。今後も市民目線で行政を進める」と答え、３選出馬について明言は避けていた。 Larger lecture on board in October, was asked to run for mayor aims to select the same 3 February 2001, Mr. Rivers reported chestnuts on an open support group sponsored by the city government on November 10 In the meeting, "but also criticized our municipal operations, just do not do it properly. Looking forward to civil administration in the future," answered, and stated for the three selected horses were avoided. （ ( 2011年12月5日07時22分 22:07 minutes December 05, 2011 読売新聞） Yomiuri Shimbun)
I assume the architect of reactor 3 is also from the wacko camp... ------------------------------
Kevin Kamps on The Fukushima China Syndrome, Thom Hartmann Program, Dec. 5, 2011:
Thom Hartmann talks with Kevin Kamps, Beyond Nuclear: www.beyondnuclear.org about concerns of a major environmental catastrophe at Japan’s damaged nuclear power reactor.
At 3:30 in
The architect of Unit 3 at Fukushima Daiichi — a former President of Saga University, so impeccable academic credentials — has said it is just a matter of time before the molten core at least in Unit 1, if not also Units 2 and 3, does reach groundwater.
And then if it just hits it right and if theres enough water and enough molten core you’re going to have a pretty powerful steam explosion so yet more catastrophic radiaoctivity releases in a great big hurry.
Kevin Kamps is a anti-nuke wacko. Here is his testimony in court. Nope - he is not the architect of unit 3. He's just one more anti nuke wacko. Continue dredging the internet and you will find more and more junk to post here.
Wrong again and again and again and again.
and again and again and again and again and again.
and again
quote
Before joining NIRS, I founded and directed the World Tree Multi-Cultural Community Center for Peace, Justice and Mother Earth in Kalamazoo, Michigan from 1996 to 1999. My main work there was the Chernobyl Children’s Project, which brought groups of visually impaired children from the former Soviet Union to the U.S. for medical attention and recreation.
In 1995, I took part in the Walk Across Europe for a Nuclear-Free World, a 3,500 mile international peace march from Brussels, Belgium to Moscow, Russia concerned with nuclear weapons issues and the aftermath of the 1986 Chernobyl nuclear catastrophe. In 1992, I took part in the 3,500 mile Walk Across America for Mother Earth from New York City to Nevada to end nuclear weapons testing at the Nevada Test Site.
I attended Earlham College, a Society of Friends (Quaker) school in Richmond, Indiana as well as Kalamazoo College in Kalamazoo, Michigan.
4. What are your responsibilities at NIRS?
At NIRS, my focus is on high-level nuclear waste issues, particularly government and industry efforts to store commercial irradiated fuel rods and military high-level atomic wastes on Skull Valley Goshutes Indian land in Utah and on Western Shoshone Indian land at Yucca Mountain, Nevada. Such dumps would require an unprecedented tens of thousands of shipments of highlevel wastes by truck and train through 45 States, past the homes of 50 million Americans, over the course of 30 years. Working with grassroots groups and concerned citizens along the targeted transport routes to educate about the inherent risks of nuclear waste storage, transport, and so-called “disposal” is a big part of my job.
The Green party's former science and technology spokesman is promoting anti-radiation pills to people in Japan affected by the Fukushima nuclear disaster, that leading scientists have condemned as "useless".
Dr Christopher Busby, director of environmental consultancy Green Audit, who published a YouTube video to launch his products.
Dr Christopher Busby, a visiting professor at the University of Ulster, is championing a series of expensive products and services which, he claims, will protect people in Japan from the effects of radiation. Among them are mineral supplements on sale for ￥5,800 (£48) a bottle, urine tests for radioactive contaminants for ￥98,000 (£808) and food tests for ￥108,000 (£891).
The tests are provided by Busby Laboratories and promoted through a body called the Christopher Busby Foundation for the Children of Fukushima (CBFCF). Both the pills and the tests are sold through a website in California called 4u-detox.com, run by a man called James Ryan.
Though a controversial figure, Busby has been championed by the anti-nuclear movement and some environmentalists. He is still consulted by the Green party on issues such as low-level radiation and depleted uranium, but when contacted by the Guardian the party distanced itself from Busy's activities. Penny Kemp, the Green party communications director, said that the party did not condone Busby's promotion of the products.
In a video on YouTube, Busby says that the calcium and magnesium pills will be supplied "at the cost of production". But the prices being charged by 4u-detox.com are far greater than those of other mineral supplements on sale in Japan. Chemists in Tokyo sell bottles of 200 pills containing similar combinations of ingredients for ￥1,029 (£8.49). James Ryan's website also charges a minimum shipping cost of ￥2,300 (£19).
The Japanese government already monitors human exposure to radiation and tests food and water, banning contaminated products from sale. It works to stricter radiation limits than the EU.
Fukushima prefecture has launched a comprehensive radiation testing programme, as well as distributing radiation monitors to 280,000 children at elementary and junior high schools. Hospitals at the edge of the exclusion zone are offering full body radiation scans and the government plans to check the thyroid glands of 360,000 children by March 2014 — with follow up tests continuing for the rest of their lives.
The CBFCF also solicits donations from the public, to be paid into an account called Green Audit at a bank in Busby's home town of Aberystwyth. Green Audit is an environmental consultancy and research organisation founded by Busby.
Launching the products and tests, Busby warns in his video of a public health catastrophe in Japan caused by the Fukushima explosions, and claims that radioactive caesium will destroy the heart muscles of Japanese children.
He also alleges that the Japanese government is trucking radioactive material from the Fukushima site all over Japan, in order to "increase the cancer rate in the whole of Japan so that there will be no control group" of children unaffected by the disaster, in order to help the Japanese government prevent potential lawsuits from people whose health may have been affected by the radiation. The pills, he claims, will stop radioactive contaminants attaching themselves to the DNA of Japanese children.
But Gerry Thomas, professor of molecular pathology at the department of surgery and cancer at Imperial College, London, describes his statements about heart disease caused by caesium as "ludicrous". She says that radioactive elements do not bind to DNA. "This shows how little he understands about basic radiobiology." Of the products and services being offered, she says, "none of these are useful at all. Dr Busby should be ashamed of himself."
Professor Ohtsura Niwa, a member of the International Commission on Radiological Protection, said that Busby had offered no evidence for his claims of deliberate contamination. "It is not possible for the government and Tepco [the company that runs the Fukushima nuclear plant] to cheat people, now that so many citizens equipped with dosimeters are measuring radiation levels all over Japan," he said.
Niwa described Busby's faith in magnesium and calcium supplements for guarding against radionuclides such as strontium, uranium and plutonium as "baseless".
A Japanese government spokesman also rebutted the accusation of deliberately contaminating other parts of Japan. Noriyuki Shikata, deputy cabinet secretary for public affairs in the prime minister's office, said that so far only tsunami debris from Miyako in Iwate prefecture has been transported to Tokyo for incineration, adding that the disposal of waste generated by the disaster applies only to Iwate and Miyagi prefectures, not Fukushima.
"At this point, there are no plans to transport radioactive waste outside Fukushima prefecture," Shikata said. "Efforts are now being co-ordinated to construct intermediate storage facilities for radioactive waste inside Fukushima prefecture."
Yasuhito Sasaki, executive director of the Japan Radioisotope Association, described the idea that large swaths of the country were being deliberately contaminated as "ridiculous". "No decision has been made on the final disposal of radioactive waste," he said. "Local governments in Fukushima haven't even approved a government proposal to store it locally on a temporary basis."
Busby told the Guardian that the money from the sales of pills and tests goes to the CBFCF, which was established by James Ryan. When asked what his involvement with the foundation is, Busby said: "It's got nothing to do with me. He phoned me up and asked if he could use my name and I said he could." But he added: "I'm conducting the tests. I promised him I would measure the samples he sent to me." Asked if Busby Laboratories was his operation, he said, "I'm Busby Laboratories."
Ryan did not respond to a question from the Guardian on why the products and services provided by 4u-detox.com are so expensive. Nor did he provide any evidence for the efficacy of the products when asked.
He did say: "All money from 4u Detox goes to children of Fukushima and children throughout Japan. We have donated a great amount to children of Japan".
Products and services offered by Busby Laboratories and sold through 4u-detox.com
Testing urine for uranium and strontium: ￥98,000 (£808)
Testing food for caesium and iodine: ￥29,800 (£246)
Testing food for plutonium, uranium and strontium: ￥108,000 (£891)
Testing water for caesium and strontium: ￥59,800 (£493)
Russian-made radiation monitors: ￥28,000 yen + ￥3,200 yen for shipping (£257 in total). The same model is available on eBay for £170, including shipping costs.
Kevin Kamps is a anti-nuke wacko. Here is his testimony in court. Nope - he is not the architect of unit 3. He's just one more anti nuke wacko. Continue dredging the internet and you will find more and more junk to post here.
Wrong again and again and again and again.
and again and again and again and again and again.
Well I was at the bar the other night and a guy there knew a guy who said that he was the brother-in-law of the roommate of the architect of all of Japan and he said that Kevin Kamps and the guy who Kevin Kamps was speaking of and you are all anit-nuke idiots.
I guess your tale proves at least one of the points.
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6: If you had one iota of reading ability, you would have seen it never stated Kevin Kamps was the architect. So you fail again and again.
Oh and by the way, all of the people who repeated the story, including the guy in the bar, have "impeccable academic credentials".
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-05-2011).]
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11:55 PM
Dec 6th, 2011
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Well I was at the bar the other night and a guy there knew a guy who said that he was the brother-in-law of the roommate of the architect of all of Japan and he said that Kevin Kamps and the guy who Kevin Kamps was speaking of and you are all anit-nuke idiots.
I guess your tale proves at least one of the points. Oh and by the way, all of the people who repeated the story, including the guy in the bar, have "impeccable academic credentials".
Since you never pay attention to anything that isn't pro your opinion, I will repost for you.
Architect of Reactor 3 warns of massive hydrovolcanic explosion Posted by Mochizuki on November 19th, 2011 · 109 Comments
Architect of Fukushima Daiichi Reactor 3, Uehara Haruo, the former president of Saga University had an interview on 11/17/2011.
In this interview, he admitted Tepco’s explanation does not make sense, and that the China syndrome is inevitable.
He stated that considering 8 months have passed since 311 without any improvement, it is inevitable that melted fuel went out of the container vessel and sank underground, which is called China syndrome.
He added, if fuel has reaches a underground water vein, it will cause contamination of underground water, soil contamination and sea contamination. Moreover, if the underground water vein keeps being heated for long time, a massive hydrovolcanic explosion will be caused.
He also warned radioactive debris is spreading in Pacific Ocean. Tons of the debris has reached the Marshall Islands as of 11/15/2011.
"The perpetrator of this fiction is Haruo Uehara, former president of Saga University. His architect credentials are iffy, at best. It seems he was involved in the design of buildings for non-nuclear systems on unit #3, but had little or nothing to do with design of the plant’s technology. From what he says, it's safe to say his level of nuclear illiteracy is severe. However, in a country where nuclear myth seems to have greater credibility than nuclear reality, Haruo's impressive-sounding (albeit misleading) credentials coupled with his sensational statements makes him just the sort of quotable person the Press drools over."
"The perpetrator of this fiction is Haruo Uehara, former president of Saga University. His architect credentials are iffy, at best. It seems he was involved in the design of buildings for non-nuclear systems on unit #3, but had little or nothing to do with design of the plant’s technology. From what he says, it's safe to say his level of nuclear illiteracy is severe. However, in a country where nuclear myth seems to have greater credibility than nuclear reality, Haruo's impressive-sounding (albeit misleading) credentials coupled with his sensational statements makes him just the sort of quotable person the Press drools over."
By the way - Saga University doesn't even offer a degree in nuclear engineering.
Oh and your 'expert source' got his name wrong.
Since leaving Saga University Mr. Uehara founded a company that is trying to extract power from the sea.
Because you are much more highly educated and have designed any part of a nuclear power plant right? Also, I don't recall calling anything a "expert source", are you still unable to comprehend what you read? Guess your smarter than the Berkley wackos too... http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu...s-massive-hydrovolca For the record it states he was the President of Saga, not a student. If you have his full educational record, please share.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-06-2011).]
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03:32 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Cesium in Baby Milk Powder Shows Nuclear Risk for Japan’s Food December 06, 2011, 2:54 PM EST
By Kanoko Matsuyama and Yuriy Humber
Dec. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Radioactive cesium was found in milk powder made by a Meiji Holdings Co. unit, causing the shares to fall the most in eight months and raising concern that nuclear radiation is contaminating baby food.
Meiji this week found traces of cesium-137 and cesium-134 in batches of “Meiji Step” made in March, the Tokyo-based company said yesterday. Levels in the 850-gram (30-ounce) cans are within safety limits and don’t pose a health risk, it said. The investigation was triggered by a customer complaint last month, a spokesman said.
The finding highlights the radiation threat to food in Japan nine months after the Fukushima nuclear plant was wrecked by an earthquake and tsunami. Prolonged exposure to radiation in the air, ground and food can damage DNA, causing leukemia and other cancers. While infants are especially susceptible, the milk powder may not be a significant threat if contamination is limited to small quantities in isolated batches, said Slim Dinsdale, a food safety consultant based in Norwich, England.
“If it’s just a one-off, ‘safe’ dose then it may well be of a similar level to the background levels” residents are routinely exposed to, Dinsdale said in a telephone interview. “I’d want to avoid cesium if I knew it was there, whether it was a safe dose or not.”
Tests conducted on Dec. 3 and 4 found Cesium-134 at levels as high as 15.2 becquerels per kilogram, while cesium-137 reached 16.5 Bq/kg, according to Meiji. A becquerel is a measure of radioactivity. The permissible level for milk and dairy products for infants is 200 Bq/kg, the company said.
As a result of the tests, the company said it’s recalling 400,000 cans of “Meiji Step,” a powdered milk formulated for babies older than nine months, packaged in April and mostly distributed in May. The affected cans expire in October 2012.
‘Pretty Small’
“The dose is pretty small,” said Richard Wakeford, a visiting professor in epidemiology at the University of Manchester’s Dalton Nuclear Institute. It wouldn’t be necessary to ban the products from a radiological protection point of view, he said. “But you can understand the kind of pressure that the manufacturer would be under in these circumstances.”
Meiji shares fell as much as 13 percent in Tokyo yesterday, ending trading down 9.7 percent at a 30-month low of 3,020 yen. Rival Morinaga Milk Industry Co. dropped 3.5 percent to a three- year low of 275 yen and Megmilk Snow Brand Co. shed 3.6 percent.
The products were made at a factory in Saitama prefecture, north of Tokyo, between March 14 and March 20, the company said. The raw milk had been produced before the March 11 disaster and water used in the production process wasn’t found to be contaminated, Meiji said.
100 Years
The monitoring didn’t detect radioactive materials in Meiji’s “Hohoemi” brand, the company said. Retailers Seven & I Holdings Co. and Aeon Co. said they are offering to replace the recalled products.
The presence of cesium at the levels found indicates contamination from nuclear fission products, possibly as a result of explosions at Tokyo Electric Power Co.’s Fukushima plant, said Stephen Lincoln, a professor of chemistry at the University of Adelaide in South Australia.
“There is only one source of cesium in that milk: nuclear fission from a nuclear reactor or spent fuel,” Lincoln said in an interview yesterday. “There may be parts around Fukushima that will have to be evacuated for 100 years. There is no way you can make radioactive decay happen more swiftly.”
In and Out
In a nuclear accident, radioactive isotopes including iodine-131 and cesium-137, which are normally contained inside the fuel rods, may be released into the atmosphere as gases or particulates if the rods are damaged. These can be inhaled or ingested through contaminated food or water. Children are especially susceptible to radiation poisoning from iodine, which can accumulate in the thyroid gland, according to the World Health Organization.
Cesium-137 that enters the body is distributed throughout the soft tissues, especially in muscle. Cesium-137 is eliminated faster from the body than other radionuclides, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.
“Slowly, but surely it will pass out of the body,” said Lincoln.
Radiation is more dangerous for infants because their cells are dividing more rapidly and radiation-damaged RNA may be carried in more generations of cells, according to Lincoln.
The risk for children depends on the quantity of radioactive cesium they consume or are exposed to, he said. If contaminated milk powder is consumed for only a few days, most of it will likely be eliminated within a month, he said.
--With assistance from Jason Gale in Singapore and Sunichi Ozasa in Tokyo. Editors: Jason Gale, Marthe Fourcade.
To contact the reporters on this story: Kanoko Matsuyama in Tokyo at kmatsuyama2@bloomberg.net; Yuriy Humber in Tokyo at yhumber@bloomberg.net.
To contact the editor responsible for this story: Jason Gale at j.gale@bloomberg.net
TOKYO — Highly radioactive waste water from a crippled Fukushima nuclear plant has leaked to the Pacific, its operator said Tuesday, promising to prevent similar incidents.
Tokyo Electric Power Co. (TEPCO) said it believes 150 litres (40 US gallons) of waste water including highly harmful strontium, linked with bone cancers, has spread to the open ocean.
The announcement came a day after TEPCO said it found 45 tonnes of waste water pooled around the leaky water-treatment system at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.
TEPCO said Monday it believed about 300 litres of waste water have escaped and run into a nearby gutter that leads to the ocean before crews could contain the leaks.
The water leaked to the sea is believed to contain 26 billion becquerels of radioactive materials, TEPCO said.
The company said, however, human health should not be affected even after eating sea food caught in the area for every day for one year.
"We again sincerely apologise for causing worries and troubles to the area residents as well as the society at large for releasing water containing radioactive materials," TEPCO said in a statement.
In the weeks after the March 11 earthquake and tsunami hit the plant, TEPCO dumped 10,000 tonnes of lower-level radioactive water into the Pacific Ocean.
Subsequent reports have found the radiation was widely dispersed and did not pose a threat to human or animal life.
Fukushima's makeshift water-treatment system has been hit by a series of problems which forced officials to temporarily shut it down.
But TEPCO said the leak would not hinder its plans to bring the reactors to a state of cold shutdown by the end of the year.
Large areas around the Fukushima plant have been left contaminated with radiation after a series of meltdowns in the world's worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl.
The accident has not directly claimed any lives, but has left tens of thousands of people displaced and rendered whole towns uninhabitable, possibly for decades. http://www.google.com/hoste...b7764010c93e843b.291
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03:49 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Are you stupid enough to think because some "Anonymous" wacko posted it on a Berkley forum that you think the staff at Berkley agrees with it?
Nope - I am not passing myself off as an expert and no I have not designed any part of a nuclear power plant.
I can also say there are no real experts out there who agree with the latest wacko you have dredged from the muck on the bottom of the internet.
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Because you are much more highly educated and have designed any part of a nuclear power plant right? Also, I don't recall calling anything a "expert source", are you still unable to comprehend what you read? Guess your smarter than the Berkley wackos too... http://www.nuc.berkeley.edu...s-massive-hydrovolca For the record it states he was the President of Saga, not a student. If you have his full educational record, please share.
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03:56 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Are you stupid enough to think because some "Anonymous" wacko posted it on a Berkley forum that you think the staff at Berkley agrees with it?
Nope - I am not passing myself off as an expert and no I have not designed any part of a nuclear power plant.
I can also say there are no real experts out there who agree with the latest wacko you have dredged from the muck on the bottom of the internet.
Did you notice all the post were anon, save one in that thread? Did you notice no one called BS? Maybe you should go save that Berkley forum from the "wackos".
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-06-2011).]
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04:01 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
So you are trying to make a point of the fact that none of the people who posted this newest load of manure and the comments about it were "man' enough to have even used their 'real' alias?
Does that make it more believable to you dennis?
Does that level of mystery give you one of those conspiracy h o's?
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Did you notice all the post were anon, save one in that thread? Did you notice no one called BS? Maybe you should go save that Berkley forum from the "wackos".
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04:10 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
So you are trying to make a point of the fact that none of the people who posted this newest load of manure and the comments about it were "man' enough to have even used their 'real' alias?
Does that make it more believable to you dennis?
Does that level of mystery give you one of those conspiracy h o's?
Did you notice that most post in that forum are anon? Go ask Berkley why their forums have so much anonymous posting? Have you thought it might be possible they don't want a future job to be compromised by a post they made years ago? Nah, couldn't be it.
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04:14 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Because you are much more highly educated and have designed any part of a nuclear power plant right?
