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Japan's nuke problems--what's happening?--conflicting reports. by maryjane
Started on: 03-12-2011 09:14 AM
Replies: 2526
Last post by: 8Ball on 10-25-2013 05:04 PM
dennis_6
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Report this Post12-13-2011 11:10 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
Tuesday, Dec. 13, 2011

SENTAKU MAGAZINE
Real cause of nuclear crisis

Tokyo Electric Power Co. (Tepco), the operator of the stricken Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Station, has been insisting that the culprit that caused the nuclear crisis was the huge tsunami that hit the plant after the March 11 earthquake. But evidence is mounting that the meltdown at the nuclear power plant was actually caused by the earthquake itself.

According to a science journalist well versed in the matter, Tepco is afraid that if the earthquake were to be determined as the direct cause of the accident, the government would have to review its quake-resistance standards completely, which in turn would delay by years the resumption of the operation of existing nuclear power stations that are suspended currently due to regular inspections.

The journalist is Mitsuhiko Tanaka, formerly with Babcock-Hitachi K.K. as an engineer responsible for designing the pressure vessel for the No. 4 reactor at the ill-fated Fukushima nuclear plant.

He says if the earthquake caused the damage to the plumbing, leading to a "loss-of-coolant accident (LOCA)" in which vaporized coolant gushed into the containment building from the damaged piping, an entirely new problem — "vulnerability to earthquake resistance of the nuclear reactor's core structure" — would surface and that this will require a total review of the government's safety standards for nuclear power plants in Japan, which is quite frequently hit by earthquakes.

Such a review will require a number of years of study, making it impossible to restart the now suspended nuclear power stations next year as Tepco hopes.

What puzzles Tanaka most is why the emergency condensers, which turn vaporized coolant (steam) into water and are supposed to lower both the pressure and temperature of the reactor, were not operating at the time of the accident although the condensers have the capability of functioning even when electricity becomes unavailable.

It is highly probable, he says, that the plumbing linked with the condensers was damaged by the earthquake, causing water or vapor to leak out, thus leading to the nonfunctioning of the condensers.

In a report released on May 23, Tepco said it stopped the emergency condensers after the quake occurred but before the tsunami hit the plant so that the temperature of the pressure vessel would not change by more than 55 degrees Celsius per hour. This, it said, was strictly in accordance with the instructions contained in the operating manual.

When a Diet committee looking into the incident asked Tepco to submit a copy of the manual, most pages of the documents so submitted were "blacked out," as the company alleged they contained trade secrets which it did not want to go into the public domain.

Totally dissatisfied, the committee issued another order to Tepco to submit the whole manual in its original form, to which the company complied on Oct. 24. This led journalist Tanaka to come to the conclusion that the utility was not telling the truth.

He said the 55-C-per-hour is a figure used in ordinary plants in a non-emergency situation to keep piping in a good condition and that the figure should not be used in an emergency. He pointed out that the manual says that the figure is something that should be followed in operations just prior to a cold shutdown of a reactor, not immediately after a problem has arisen.

At a news conference on May 15, Tepco said that according to its simulation, the meltdown at the No. 1 reactor of the nuclear power plant happened about 15 hours after the earthquake because the tsunami destroyed all electricity supply sources and the water level in the reactor lowered rapidly. But Tanaka says that the simulation is far different from the actually measured water level and pressure.

A rapid increase in the pressure inside the containment vessel is especially unnatural. Although the simulation report says that the pressure inside the containment vessel shot up to more than seven times standard atmospheric pressure around 5:40 a.m. on March 12, or about 15 hours after the quake, the fact is that the pressure had already risen to six times the standard at 12:12 a.m. on March 12 — five to six hours before the time given by the simulation report.

Simulation data calculated by a computer can be manipulated easily depending on the types of input. Tanaka suspects that Tepco cooked up simulation results to suit its own purposes in an attempt to deceive the public.

Atsuo Watanabe, former designer of containment vessels at Toshiba Corp., said on Oct. 26 that the most fundamental cause of the Fukushima plant fiasco probably lay in the blind acceptance of the safety standards adopted in the United States, which did not take into consideration all potential consequences from earthquakes.

The reactors damaged at Fukushima were of the GE Mark 1 type designed and built by General Electric Co. He pointed out that in the U.S., there is no need to consider the combination of an earthquake and a loss-of-coolant accident caused by broken piping, adding that it is reasonable to assume that the earthquake and loss of coolant occurred simultaneously at Fukushima No. 1.

Perhaps it was against such a background that Tepco blacked out crucial matters in the operational manual of the reactors, as there are 10 other GE Mark 1 type reactors in Japan.

These and other scientific findings have given rise to serious suspicion of Tepco's claim that the crisis at the nuclear power plant was caused by the tsunami, and not by the earthquake. And a view that blames the tremor as the true culprit is becoming more and more trusted.

It is imperative that the special investigative committee recently created within the Diet undertake thorough inquiry into the real cause of the accidents. The panel must force those Tepco employees who have worked on the spot to testify, even though the company has so far obstinately opposed such testimonies.

Should the government decide to permit the resumption of nuclear power stations in various parts of the country by blindly accepting assertions coming from Tepco, the whole nation would face uneasiness in preventing another calamity in the future and would fail to fulfill its accountability to the whole world, which is watching whether Japan will conduct a thorough investigation to determine the true cause of the Fukushima disaster.
This is an abridged translation of an article from the December issue of Sentaku, a monthly magazine covering Japan's political, social and economic scenes.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/eo20111213a1.html
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Report this Post12-13-2011 11:20 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post

dennis_6

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Tuesday, Dec. 13, 2011

SENTAKU MAGAZINE
Real cause of nuclear crisis

Tokyo Electric Power Co. (Tepco), the operator of the stricken Fukushima No. 1 Nuclear Power Station, has been insisting that the culprit that caused the nuclear crisis was the huge tsunami that hit the plant after the March 11 earthquake. But evidence is mounting that the meltdown at the nuclear power plant was actually caused by the earthquake itself.

According to a science journalist well versed in the matter, Tepco is afraid that if the earthquake were to be determined as the direct cause of the accident, the government would have to review its quake-resistance standards completely, which in turn would delay by years the resumption of the operation of existing nuclear power stations that are suspended currently due to regular inspections.

The journalist is Mitsuhiko Tanaka, formerly with Babcock-Hitachi K.K. as an engineer responsible for designing the pressure vessel for the No. 4 reactor at the ill-fated Fukushima nuclear plant.

He says if the earthquake caused the damage to the plumbing, leading to a "loss-of-coolant accident (LOCA)" in which vaporized coolant gushed into the containment building from the damaged piping, an entirely new problem — "vulnerability to earthquake resistance of the nuclear reactor's core structure" — would surface and that this will require a total review of the government's safety standards for nuclear power plants in Japan, which is quite frequently hit by earthquakes.

Such a review will require a number of years of study, making it impossible to restart the now suspended nuclear power stations next year as Tepco hopes.

What puzzles Tanaka most is why the emergency condensers, which turn vaporized coolant (steam) into water and are supposed to lower both the pressure and temperature of the reactor, were not operating at the time of the accident although the condensers have the capability of functioning even when electricity becomes unavailable.

It is highly probable, he says, that the plumbing linked with the condensers was damaged by the earthquake, causing water or vapor to leak out, thus leading to the nonfunctioning of the condensers.

In a report released on May 23, Tepco said it stopped the emergency condensers after the quake occurred but before the tsunami hit the plant so that the temperature of the pressure vessel would not change by more than 55 degrees Celsius per hour. This, it said, was strictly in accordance with the instructions contained in the operating manual.

When a Diet committee looking into the incident asked Tepco to submit a copy of the manual, most pages of the documents so submitted were "blacked out," as the company alleged they contained trade secrets which it did not want to go into the public domain.

Totally dissatisfied, the committee issued another order to Tepco to submit the whole manual in its original form, to which the company complied on Oct. 24. This led journalist Tanaka to come to the conclusion that the utility was not telling the truth.

He said the 55-C-per-hour is a figure used in ordinary plants in a non-emergency situation to keep piping in a good condition and that the figure should not be used in an emergency. He pointed out that the manual says that the figure is something that should be followed in operations just prior to a cold shutdown of a reactor, not immediately after a problem has arisen.

At a news conference on May 15, Tepco said that according to its simulation, the meltdown at the No. 1 reactor of the nuclear power plant happened about 15 hours after the earthquake because the tsunami destroyed all electricity supply sources and the water level in the reactor lowered rapidly. But Tanaka says that the simulation is far different from the actually measured water level and pressure.

A rapid increase in the pressure inside the containment vessel is especially unnatural. Although the simulation report says that the pressure inside the containment vessel shot up to more than seven times standard atmospheric pressure around 5:40 a.m. on March 12, or about 15 hours after the quake, the fact is that the pressure had already risen to six times the standard at 12:12 a.m. on March 12 — five to six hours before the time given by the simulation report.

Simulation data calculated by a computer can be manipulated easily depending on the types of input. Tanaka suspects that Tepco cooked up simulation results to suit its own purposes in an attempt to deceive the public.

Atsuo Watanabe, former designer of containment vessels at Toshiba Corp., said on Oct. 26 that the most fundamental cause of the Fukushima plant fiasco probably lay in the blind acceptance of the safety standards adopted in the United States, which did not take into consideration all potential consequences from earthquakes.

The reactors damaged at Fukushima were of the GE Mark 1 type designed and built by General Electric Co. He pointed out that in the U.S., there is no need to consider the combination of an earthquake and a loss-of-coolant accident caused by broken piping, adding that it is reasonable to assume that the earthquake and loss of coolant occurred simultaneously at Fukushima No. 1.

Perhaps it was against such a background that Tepco blacked out crucial matters in the operational manual of the reactors, as there are 10 other GE Mark 1 type reactors in Japan.

These and other scientific findings have given rise to serious suspicion of Tepco's claim that the crisis at the nuclear power plant was caused by the tsunami, and not by the earthquake. And a view that blames the tremor as the true culprit is becoming more and more trusted.

It is imperative that the special investigative committee recently created within the Diet undertake thorough inquiry into the real cause of the accidents. The panel must force those Tepco employees who have worked on the spot to testify, even though the company has so far obstinately opposed such testimonies.

Should the government decide to permit the resumption of nuclear power stations in various parts of the country by blindly accepting assertions coming from Tepco, the whole nation would face uneasiness in preventing another calamity in the future and would fail to fulfill its accountability to the whole world, which is watching whether Japan will conduct a thorough investigation to determine the true cause of the Fukushima disaster.
This is an abridged translation of an article from the December issue of Sentaku, a monthly magazine covering Japan's political, social and economic scenes.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/text/eo20111213a1.html
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Report this Post12-13-2011 11:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

Much of the posts are barely readable. I know translations (either computer or by a person) can distort the intended meaning. Some of the posts however are just impossible to decipher the intended meaning (wacko or non-wacko).



Kind of reminds me of the principle of the AK-47.
What they lack in accuracy, they make up for in volume, and the ability to keep going no matter what.
Throw enough **** into the air, and you're likely to hit something.

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Report this Post12-13-2011 11:23 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


Kind of reminds me of the principle of the AK-47.
What they lack in accuracy, they make up for in volume, and the ability to keep going no matter what.
Throw enough **** into the air, and you're likely to hit something.


Keep on with the love fest for each other, I have posted articles that downplayed the disaster, as i have come across it, and I have yet to post a article claiming Fukushima is a extinction level event. That would be scare mongering.
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Report this Post12-13-2011 11:26 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post

dennis_6

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TOKYO (Dow Jones)--Hundreds of Fukushima residents were exposed to radiation well above the level permitted for the general public following the March nuclear disaster, according to an official survey released Tuesday, confirming the accident's broad impact on local communities.

But the survey of 1,589 residents from three towns close to the disaster-hit Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant showed that no residents were exposed to radiation above levels tolerated during nuclear emergencies. Most residents from the towns were evacuated by late April, suggesting the government managed to move residents from areas where radiation rose close to those levels.

The survey by the Fukushima Prefecture local government looked at the cumulative external radiation exposure of residents of Namie, Iitate and part of Kawamata towns in the four months following the March 11 accident. The towns are not the closest to the troubled plant, but residents were seen to be at risk of high radiation exposure because the government was relatively slow in asking them to evacuate.

Of the group surveyed, four residents received exposure of at least 10 millisieverts, with the highest dose at 14.5 millisieverts, significantly higher than the annual 1 millisievert level permitted for the general public by the Japanese government in accordance with international safety standards.

But they were well below the 20 millisievert threshold the government sets for forced evacuation of residents in nuclear emergencies.

Shunichi Yamashita, vice president of Fukushima Medical University and one of the prefecture's senior nuclear advisors, said the latest result indicated the accident's "impact on the health of the general public is extremely small," according to NHK, Japan's national broadcaster.

Exposure levels for nearly two-thirds of the group, or 998 residents, were less than 1 millisievert, while those for 549 people were within the range between 1 and 5 millisieverts. There were 38 people in the 5-10 millisievert band.

Included in the group were 311 children and teenagers, of whom 97.7% received less exposure of less than 5 millisieverts. Seven were estimated to have received more, but none at levels exceeding 10 millisieverts, Fukushima prefecture said.

Exposure levels were higher for residents who worked at nuclear facilities. Of the 138 nuclear workers in the three towns, five were exposed to radiation levels of over 10 millisieverts. The most elevated level was reported for a worker who received 37.4 millisieverts.

The International Commission on Radiological Protection, an influential Canada-based group of scientists that sets radiation safety standards, recommends authorities limit radiation exposure after a nuclear accident in the "lower part of the 1-20 millisievert per year band."

Experts say the risk of cancer increases in measurable ways once a population is exposed to over 100 millisieverts.

The survey did not look at internal exposure--radiation taken into human body through contaminated air, water or food.

-By Yuka Hayashi, The Wall Street Journal; +81-3-6269-2832; yuka.hayashi@wsj.com

http://online.wsj.com/artic...20111213-704941.html
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Report this Post12-13-2011 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post

dennis_6

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The following link is a example of scare mongering, since certain members can not distinguish legitimate sources such as the Japan Times, New York Times, and the WSJ.

*DISCLAIMER: The following link is absolute BS.
http://www.moneycontrol.com...%29_bK25tbSo0bs.html

Even better google the subject, if anyone has been researching this subject themselves, they would see their are quite a few articles I haven't posted.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-13-2011).]

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Report this Post12-13-2011 11:32 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
...I have yet to post a article claiming Fukushima is a extinction level event...


I feel confident that if one appears, we'll hear about it here, first.

Please... carry on. (and on... and on...)

Edit - nevermind.

[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 12-13-2011).]

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Report this Post12-13-2011 11:33 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Raydar:


I feel confident that if one appears, we'll hear about it here, first.

Please... carry on. (and on... and on...)


Just posted a link so that others can see I don't just post anything, go look at the date. I refuse to cut and paste the article on here, since it is total BS. Now, what you and phonedawgz are doing is called deception. Downplaying the disaster from the last turn of events, because otherwise its easy to see what you are actually doing.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-13-2011).]

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Report this Post12-13-2011 12:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
...Now, what you and phonedawgz are doing is called deception...


I'm not doing anything but offering my opinion.

As I said, please carry on...

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Report this Post12-13-2011 12:16 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
So you think it is feasible that they designed this system with one computer that was the SOLE way to remotely control the valves and pumps?

 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

.... I already addressed the possibility that valves may have been unreachable physically due to damage.


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Report this Post12-13-2011 12:19 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

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So now you have decided that it is a good idea to start using some discretion as to what dredgings you spam this thread with?

 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

The following link is a example of scare mongering, since certain members can not distinguish legitimate sources such as the Japan Times, New York Times, and the WSJ.

*DISCLAIMER: The following link is absolute BS.
http://www.moneycontrol.com...%29_bK25tbSo0bs.html

Even better google the subject, if anyone has been researching this subject themselves, they would see their are quite a few articles I haven't posted.



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Report this Post12-13-2011 11:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

So now you have decided that it is a good idea to start using some discretion as to what dredgings you spam this thread with?



I have always used discretion, look at the date of the article. I haven't posted things i knew to be 100 percent false.
I have refrained from any articles dealing with extinction level due to Fukushima.
I have refrained from any articles pointing to HAARP causing the earthquake.
I have refrained from any articles accusing the United States or Israel, or any other nation causing the earthquake.
I have refrained from any articles stating Fukushima is a false flag and never really happened, all CGI.
I have posted articles I disagreed with, either pro or against nuclear power, so members of this forum could make up their own mind, but I have kept the absolute trash off the forum. Despite what your accusations may state.
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Report this Post12-14-2011 09:51 AM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
March 13th, 2011 – 2200 EDT – USNRC Emergency Operations Center Status Update, Enformable, Dec. 12, 2011:

* Morning of March 13, 2011
* USS Reagan ~130 miles (240 km) off Japan coast
* Dose rates from overhead plume were .6 mrem/hour (6 microsieverts/hour)
* Navy sent samples to base fro isotopic analysis
* (Italicized by NRC) “Principle radionuclides identified were iodine, cesium, and technetium, consistent with a release from a nuclear reactor.“


http://enformable.com/2011/...enter-status-update/
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Report this Post12-14-2011 10:52 AM Click Here to See the Profile for RaydarSend a Private Message to RaydarDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

... I haven't posted things i knew to be 100 percent false.
...


So, If you only know them to be 75% false, does that mean they're a "go"?

Sorry, man. I was gonna shut up for a while, but I couldn't let that one go.

Please. Continue.

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Report this Post12-14-2011 05:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
Congressmen are now alarmist wackos.
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Report this Post12-14-2011 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post

dennis_6

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Four NRC Commissioners conspired, with each other and with senior NRC staff, to delay the release of and alter the NRC Near-Term Task Force report on Fukushima

It is clear from a review of emails and other documents that some of the Commissioners [...] worked with some NRC staff to alter the materials the Commission would be asked to vote on. They also attempted to delay its release both to Congress and the public.

[...]

Although the NRC had already rejected Commissioner Magwood’s proposal to publicly release the Near-Term Task Force report only after it had been approved (and, presumably, edited) by a majority of the Commissioners, Commissioner Magwood began to attempt to prevent its release to Congress and the public anyway.

[...]

On the evening of July 12, the chiefs of staffs of all NRC Commissioners were sent a copy of the draft press release on the NRC Near-Term Task Force report that was to be sent the following day, although typical Commission procedure states that circulation of such drafts an hour in advance is recommended as a “collegial practice.” Early the next morning, Commissioner Magwood sent his comments to Chairman Jaczko, stating that “someone reading this would think that every reactor in the country is a time bomb waiting to go off” and that the press release was “almost breathless.” The other three NRC Commissioners were copied on this email, and Commissioner Svinicki quickly echoed Commissioner Magwood’s views. Commissioner Magwood referred to the draft press release as “irresponsible” in an email to Commissioner Ostendorff

[...]

http://markey.house.gov/doc...al_w_attachments.pdf
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Report this Post12-14-2011 05:37 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
I agree

Any congressman who states that Fukushima with no nuclear casualties or serious injuries is the "worst nuclear disaster in world history" is clearly a wacko.

There have been MANY nuclear events that involved injuries and many that have caused casualties.

Sorry about the facts ruining your story. (again)

 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

Congressmen are now alarmist wackos.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-14-2011).]

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Report this Post12-14-2011 06:56 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post

phonedawgz

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List of nuclear accidents by fatalities

4,000 fatalities – Chernobyl disaster, Ukraine, April 26, 1986. 56 direct deaths (47 accident workers, and nine children with thyroid cancer), and it is estimated that there were 4,000 extra cancer deaths among the approximately 600,000 most highly exposed people.

200+ fatalities – Mayak nuclear waste storage tank explosion, (Chelyabinsk, Soviet Union, 29 September 1957), figure is a conservative estimate, 270,000 people were exposed to dangerous radiation levels. Over thirty small communities had been removed from Soviet maps between 1958 and 1991.

33+ cancer fatalities (estimated by UK government) – Windscale, United Kingdom, October 8, 1957. Fire ignites plutonium piles and contaminates surrounding dairy farms.. Windscale was an air-cooled graphite-moderated reactor with no containment structure. A significant contributing factor was that the graphite caught fire.

17 fatalities – Instituto Oncologico Nacional of Panama, August 2000 – March 2001. Patients receiving treatment for prostate cancer and cancer of the cervix receive lethal doses of radiation.

13 fatalities – Radiotherapy accident in Costa Rica, 1996. 114 patients received an overdose of radiation from a Cobalt-60 source that was being used for radiotherapy.

11 fatalities – Radiotherapy accident in Zaragoza, Spain, December 1990. Cancer patients receiving radiotherapy; 27 patients were injured.

10 fatalities – Soviet submarine K-431 reactor accident, August 10, 1985. 49 people suffered radiation injuries.

10 fatalities – Columbus radiotherapy accident, 1974–1976, 88 injuries from Cobalt-60 source.

9 fatalities – Soviet submarine K-27 reactor accident, 24 May 1968. 83 people were injured.

8 fatalities – Soviet submarine K-19 reactor accident, July 4, 1961. More than 30 people were over-exposed to radiation.

8 fatalities – Radiation accident in Morocco, March 1984.

7 fatalities – Houston radiotherapy accident, 1980.

5 fatalities – Lost radiation source, Baku, Azerbaijan, USSR, October 5, 1982. 13 injuries.

4 fatalities – Mihama Nuclear Power Plant accident, August 9, 2004. Hot water and steam leaked from a broken pipe.

4 fatalities – Goiânia accident, September 13, 1987. 249 people received serious radiation contamination from lost radiography source.

4 fatalities – Radiation accident in Mexico City, 1962.

3 fatalities – SL-1 accident (US Army) 1961.

3 fatalities – Three deaths and ten injuries resulted in Samut Prakarn, Thailand when a radiation-therapy unit was dismantled, February 2000.

2 fatalities – Tokaimura nuclear accident, nuclear fuel reprocessing plant. Japan, September 30, 1999.

1 fatality – Mayapuri radiological accident, India, April 2010.

1 fatality – Daigo Fukuryū Maru March 1, 1954

1 fatality – Louis Slotin May 21, 1946

1 fatality – Harry K. Daghlian, Jr., August 21, 1945 at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico.

1 fatality – Cecil Kelley criticality accident, December 30, 1958 at the Los Alamos National Laboratory.

1 fatality – Malfunction INES level 4 at RA2 in Buenos Aires, Argentina, operator Osvaldo Rogulich dies days later.
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quote
Originally posted by Cheever3000:

So, are only 2 guys reading this? I just saw it at the top again and came to check it out.



I still check it out regularly. I don't believe that everything that Dennis6 posts is the God's Honest Truth(nor do I believe he does ), just as surely as I don't believe everything the Japanese government and TEPCO has put out is the God's Honest Truth. As TEPCO and the Japanese government have proven slow to share the actual situation at the plant (either by ineptitude,deceit, or ignorance) , I feel that any information is better than no information, and I appreciate the flow of information that Dennis6 posts. Admittedly, it's one-sided, but that could be counter-balanced if others post "positive" events from Fukushima.

Was Fukushima the "worst nuclear disaster in history?" I think that's yet to be seen as the saga continues. If not the worst, it easily qualifies as the second worst. There's a lot to be learned from this disaster, if it's not all "swept under the rug." I'll continue to read both sides of the story here on this thread. Unfortunately, there have been few posts that contradict the flood of posts from Dennis6. I agree he has a shotgun approach, so please post up the other side of the story-I'll read it too.

[This message has been edited by carnut122 (edited 12-14-2011).]

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I agree that in many ways it can be considered to be the second worst.

To call it the worst really does a huge disservice to all the liquidators who did give their lives to help control the worlds worst.

I will also say in many ways it is less than second. The Japanese government has done a lot to mitigate the impact. Evacuating the people and keeping them evacuated is not without costs and pain. That action will help minimize exposure to the public.

I also really agree that we need to use the lessons learned from Fukushima Daiichi. Both in prevention and in any potential future mitigation.

Seeing that one of the largest impacts from Chernobyl was the psychological one, I think we really need to learn lessons on how to handle any accidents like this in the future. I think overall Tepco and the Japanese Government are falling on their faces in this aspect.

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IAEA to coordinate Pacific monitoring

14 December 2011

The International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) is bringing together 24 countries in the Pacific Ocean region to help monitor the movement of radionuclides released from the Fukushima nuclear accident.

The accident in March this year on Japan's Eastern seaboard caused an unprecedented emission of radioactive materials to sea, mainly iodine and caesium. A major outflow occurred between 1-6 April when a leak from a trench containing electrical cables caused an estimated 4.7 petabecquerels of radioactivity to be released. Lesser outflows have also continued to occur as run-off from the plant and countryside has taken place, while an unknown amount is due to atmospheric emissions which have blown out to sea.

Many countries in the Pacific region have expressed concern that this contamination could potentially damage their coastal environments and negatively impact communities and economies. This led to the IAEA board approving a technical cooperation project during its annual meeting in June.

Twenty-four countries are particpating in the project:

Australia, Bangladesh, Cambodia, China, Cook Islands, Fiji, India, Indonesia, Japan, the Marshall Islands, Palau, Malaysia, Mongolia, Myanmar, Nepal, New Zealand, Pakistan, Philippines, Singapore, the Solomon Islands, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Thailand and Vietnam.

Running from 2011 to 2015 under Australian leadership, the budget allocated for the project is around $1.3 million.

The project seeks to harmonise the measurements of various radioisotopes in marine waters, biota, sediments and suspended material so that a more comparable and verifiable picture of the wider ocean contamination can be established. The IAEA will serve to boost local measurement capabilities, and facilitate the exchange of data between countries.

According to the IAEA, despite the fact that radioactive material is expected to be "significantly diluted by time" as it has mixed with the vast body of water in the Pacific, ocean currents will act to transport material throughout the wider Pacific area "for the foreseeable future."

"It is expected that the enormous dilution capacity of the Pacific Ocean will lead to low residual concentrations of radionuclides in ocean waters such that any significant contamination of marine food in coastal waters outside of Japan will not occur," said IAEA technical officer Hartmut Nies. "To date, only caesium -134 and caesium -137 were detected far offshore from the Japanese coast in the prevailing Kuroshio Ocean current at levels of less concern."

The first meeting for the project took place in Australia in August, while a training workshop was held in the IAEA Environmental Laboratories in Monaco from 21-25 November. The workshop led to the adoption of a quality management system and database for the future monitoring efforts. The project is expected to run till 2015, with a first progress report due in 2012.

http://www.world-nuclear-ne...itoring_141211a.html
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Sure are a lot of alarmist wackos out there...
-----------------------

NHK’s official twitter account is run by an announcer named Hori Jun.

Since 311, NHK has been spreading lies and has killed millions of people by making them too late to escape.

However, Mr Hori Jun tweeted comments that rebels against NHK.

Because it’s an official NHK twitter account, it’s causing confusion but generally his comments were welcome as rare sanity found in mass media.

nhk_HORIJUN 堀 潤 Jun Hori
福島県で除染作業に携わっていた60代の男性が亡くなった。男性の死亡原因について国は「除染作業と関係はない」としているが何故関係がないと判断したのか、その根拠も示さなくてはい ない。チェルノブイリ事故でさえ人体への影響について研究が続けられている最中だというのに。情報公開の徹底を!

Translation:

A man (60) died during decontamination in Fukushima. Japanese government states it has nothing to do with decontamination, but they must show the basis to prove it really has nothing to do with decontamination. Even for Chernobyl accident, they are still studying the radioactive effects on humans. They must disclose information.

- End -

nhk_HORIJUN 堀 潤 Jun Hori
国や組織に期待してはだめだ。もうだめだ。僕らで動こう。僕らで考えよう。僕らでこの国を変えよう。だって、僕らの国なんだからさ。誰かに任せるのは、もう、やめよう。僕らは皆仲間 。ここでこうして繋がっている皆は、何かに気が付いたからこうして繋がっている。だから、僕らが動こう。

Translation:

We can no longer expect anything from the government or organizations. No, no anymore. We must move by ourselves. Let’s think by ourselves. We must change this country. This is our nation. We shall stop giving the power to someone else. Let’s rule ourselves. We are the one. We have realized “something”, that’s why we are connected to each other like now. so, let’s move.

- End -

They are worried about his security.

http://fukushima-diary.com/...28Fukushima+Diary%29
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Japan May Declare Control of Reactors, Over Serious Doubts
Tepco Via Jiji Press/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images

Workers sprayed water in March to cool the spent nuclear fuel in a reactor building at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.
By MARTIN FACKLER
Published: December 14, 2011

TOKYO — Nine months after the devastating earthquake and tsunami knocked out cooling systems at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, causing a meltdown at three units, the Tokyo government is expected to declare soon that it has finally regained control of the plant’s overheating reactors.
Related

Follow @nytimesworld for international breaking news and headlines.
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Reuters

Leakage from an evaporation condensation apparatus inside the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.

But even before it has been made, the announcement is facing serious doubts from experts.

On Friday, a disaster-response task force headed by Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda will vote on whether to announce that the plant’s three damaged reactors have been put into the equivalent of a “cold shutdown,” a technical term normally used to describe intact reactors with fuel cores that are in a safe and stable condition. Experts say that if it does announce a shutdown, as many expect, it will simply reflect the government’s effort to fulfill a pledge to restore the plant’s cooling system by year’s end and, according to some experts, not the true situation.

If the task force declares a cold shutdown, the next step will be moving the spent fuel rods in nearby cooling pools to more secure storage, and eventually opening the reactors themselves.

However, many experts fear that the government is declaring victory only to appease growing public anger over the accident, and that it may deflect attention from remaining threats to the reactors’ safety. One of those — a large aftershock to the magnitude 9 earthquake on March 11, which could knock out the jury-rigged new cooling system that the plant’s operator hastily built after the accident — is considered a strong possibility by many seismologists.

They also said the term cold shutdown might give an exaggerated impression of stability to severely damaged reactors with fuel cores that have not only melted down, but melted through the inner containment vessels and bored into the floor of their concrete outer containment structures.

“The government wants to reassure the people that everything is under control, and do this by the end of this year,” said Kazuhiko Kudo, a professor of nuclear engineering at Kyushu University. “But what I want to know is, are they really ready to say this?”

Perhaps to give itself some wiggle room, the government is expected to use vague terminology, announcing that the three damaged reactors are in a “state of cold shutdown.” Experts say that in real terms, this will amount to a claim that the reactors’ temperatures can now be kept safely below the boiling point of water, and that their melted cores are no longer at risk of resuming the atomic chain reaction that could allow them to again heat up uncontrollably.

And indeed, experts credit the operator, the Tokyo Electric Power Company, or Tepco, with making progress in regaining control of the damaged reactors. They say the plant’s makeshift new cooling system, built with the help of American, French and Japanese companies, has managed to cool the reactors’ cores, including the molten fuel attached to the outer containment vessels.

Experts also say a new shedlike structure built over the heavily damaged Unit 1 reactor building has helped cap the plant’s radiation leaks into the atmosphere. The building was one of three reactor buildings destroyed in hydrogen explosions in March that scattered dangerous particles over a wide swath of northeastern Japan.

Still, experts say the term is usually reserved for healthy reactors, to indicate that they are safe enough that their containment vessels can be opened up and their fuel rods taken out. But they warn it may take far longer than even the government’s projected three years to begin cleaning up the melted fuel in Fukushima Daiichi’s damaged reactors. This has led some experts to say that proclaiming a cold shutdown may actually be deceptive, suggesting the Fukushima plant is closer to getting cleaned up than it actually is.

“Claiming a cold shutdown does not have much meaning for damaged reactors like those at Fukushima Daiichi,” said Noboru Nakao, a nuclear engineering consultant at International Access Corporation.

In fact, experts point out, damaged fuel cores have yet to be removed from plants that suffered meltdowns decades ago. In the case of Chernobyl, Soviet officials simply entombed the damaged reactor in a concrete sarcophagus after the explosion there in 1986. Some experts said talk of a cold shutdown deflected attention from the more pressing problem of further releases of radioactive contamination into the environment. In particular, they said there was still a danger to the nearby Pacific Ocean from the 90,000 tons of contaminated water that sit in the basements of the shattered reactor buildings, or are stored in fields of silver tanks on the plant’s grounds.

“At this point, I would be more worried about the contamination than what’s happening inside the reactors,” said Murray E. Jennex, an expert on nuclear containment at San Diego State University.

Mr. Jennex said he believed the government’s claim that the reactors themselves were now stable, and particularly that the resumption of the heat-producing chain reaction called fission was no longer possible. While the discovery last month of the chemical xenon, a byproduct of fission, in one of Fukushima Daiichi’s reactors briefly raised alarms that a chain reaction had restarted, Mr. Jennex said enough of the radioactive fuel had decayed since the accident in March to make that unlikely.

Other experts disagreed. Kyushu University’s Mr. Kudo said that the restart of fission, a phenomenon known as recriticality, could not be ruled out until the reactors could be opened, allowing for an examination of the melted fuel. But he and other experts said their biggest fear was that another earthquake or tsunami could knock out Tepco’s makeshift cooling system. They noted that it was not built to earthquake safety standards, and relied on water purifiers and other vulnerable equipment connected to the reactors by more than a mile and a half of rubber hoses.

“All it would take is one more earthquake or tsunami to set Fukushima Daiichi back to square one,” Mr. Kudo said. “Can we really call this precarious situation a cold shutdown?”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011...r-reactors.html?_r=1

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-15-2011).]

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dennis_6

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Another alarmist wacko, a ex fukushima worker.


Interpreter in video, he will speak first then she will translate.
At 19:30 in

Immediately after the first hydrogen explosion, Tepco gave out a request to all of these labor dispatching companies and they said ‘send us people who don’t mind dying’.

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-15-2011).]

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First debris from Japanese earthquake/tsunami reaches Olympic Peninsula

By Arwyn Rice
Peninsula Daily News

PORT ANGELES — The first piece of debris that could be identified as washing up on the West Coast from the March 11 tsunami in Japan — a large black float — was found on a Neah Bay beach two weeks ago, Seattle oceanographers Curtis Ebbesmeyer and Jim Ingraham said Tuesday night.

Since then, the two researchers, known as DriftBusters Inc. — who have used flotsam to track wind and water currents in the Pacific since 1970 — have learned that the black, 55-gallon drum-sized floats also have been found on Vancouver Island.

Ebbesmeyer and Ingraham spoke to more than 100 people at Peninsula College and brought the float with them, along with examples of other items that may be showing up on beaches in the next year.

Tons of debris washed out to sea when a tsunami struck northern Japan after a massive magnitude-9.0 earthquake March 11.

About a quarter of the 100 million tons of debris from Japan is expected to make landfall on beaches from southern Alaska to California, possibly in volumes large enough to clog ports, Ebbesmeyer said.

Using models from a historic shipwreck that occurred 20 miles off Neah Bay, Ebbesmeyer and Ingraham have determined the path of debris that comes into that area off the Washington coast.

They said debris will be snagged by currents leading into the Strait of Juan de Fuca and that a large portion of it will end up on beaches from the mouth of the Elwha River to Port Townsend.

Many ocean models have shown that the massive congregation of flotsam that washed away from devastated Japanese coastal cities is in the middle of the Pacific and won’t make landfall in the U.S. for another year or two.

Most of it is exactly where those models predicted, but those models don’t take into account wind and flotsam with large areas exposed to the wind, said Ebbesmeyer, who became famous for his and Ingraham’s ocean research into currents after large spills of Nike shoes and bath toys from container ships in the 1990s.

Flotsam in a current travels an average of seven miles per hour, but it can move as much as 20 mph if it has a large area exposed to the wind, he said.

The float that was found in Neah Bay sits well above the water, has a very shallow draft and is lightweight, exactly what Ingraham’s computer model said would show up first.

It was found by Surfrider beach cleanup crews working on a Makah-owned beach on the strait, a few miles east of Neah Bay, Ebbesmeyer said.

The black floats are seen in the middle of the Pacific by the hundreds, and are not something that has been seen on Eastern Pacific beaches before, he said.

The floats are included in masses of black blobs supporting huge rafts of debris that include fishing boats, houses and possibly human bodies, Ebbesmeyer said.

Many of those bodies and parts of bodies will likely begin washing up in about a year, some simply as feet in athletic shoes, similar to those found in Puget Sound over the last decade, he said.

Ebbesmeyer has done extensive research on those feet, and said that many more may be found in coming years.

Athletic shoes make the perfect floats to preserve parts of bodies, Ebbesmeyer said, and there are still thousands of people missing from tsunami-stricken areas of Japan.

Shoes with remains or other possibly human remains found on beaches should be reported to the appropriate authorities, either police, sheriff’s deputies or park rangers, he said.

If the debris has any kind of identifiable marking, such as numbers or Japanese writing, it may be traceable, Ebbesmeyer said.

“All debris should be treated with a great reverence and respect,” he said.

Families in Japan are waiting to hear of any items that may have been associated with their loved ones and may travel to the U.S. to meet those who found these mementos, he added.

Items that wash up may include portions of houses, boats, ships, furniture, portions of cars and just about anything else that floats, he said.

The rafts of debris include whole houses which may still contain many personal items, and the Japanese are known for storing important personal mementos in walls, Ebbesmeyer said.

Even the smallest of traceable items may be the only thing associated with one of those people who were lost during the disaster, he said.

Contact Ebbesmeyer at CurtisEbbesmeyer@comcast.net for assistance in translation and to track tsunami debris back to its Japanese origins.

“I have a translator to read things in Japanese,” he said.

Large items still in the water should be reported to the Coast Guard, as they may represent a hazard to boats and ships, he said.

Some shipping lanes have already been rerouted to avoid the worst of the debris, he said.

People should also be aware of the possibility of radiation contamination, he said.

The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant leaked a large amount of radiation into the water in the wake of the tsunami, and no one knows what levels of contamination there are in the currents, and the items being carried in those currents, he said.

Ebbesmeyer suggested local police take steps to have sensitive Geiger counters available to scan items — just to be safe.

The event was unprecedented, and no one knows yet what levels of radiation, if any, items have picked up, he said.

________

Reporter Arwyn Rice can be reached at 360-417-3535 or at arwyn.rice@peninsuladailynews.com.

Last modified: December 14. 2011 5:12PM

http://www.peninsuladailyne...nami-reaches-olympic
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quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

First debris from Japanese earthquake/tsunami reaches Olympic Peninsula

By Arwyn Rice
Peninsula Daily News

PORT ANGELES — The first piece of debris that could be identified as washing up on the West Coast from the March 11 tsunami in Japan — a large black float — was found on a Neah Bay beach two weeks ago, Seattle oceanographers Curtis Ebbesmeyer and Jim Ingraham said Tuesday night.

Since then, the two researchers, known as DriftBusters Inc. — who have used flotsam to track wind and water currents in the Pacific since 1970 — have learned that the black, 55-gallon drum-sized floats also have been found on Vancouver Island.

Ebbesmeyer and Ingraham spoke to more than 100 people at Peninsula College and brought the float with them, along with examples of other items that may be showing up on beaches in the next year.

Tons of debris washed out to sea when a tsunami struck northern Japan after a massive magnitude-9.0 earthquake March 11.

About a quarter of the 100 million tons of debris from Japan is expected to make landfall on beaches from southern Alaska to California, possibly in volumes large enough to clog ports, Ebbesmeyer said.

Using models from a historic shipwreck that occurred 20 miles off Neah Bay, Ebbesmeyer and Ingraham have determined the path of debris that comes into that area off the Washington coast.

They said debris will be snagged by currents leading into the Strait of Juan de Fuca and that a large portion of it will end up on beaches from the mouth of the Elwha River to Port Townsend.

Many ocean models have shown that the massive congregation of flotsam that washed away from devastated Japanese coastal cities is in the middle of the Pacific and won’t make landfall in the U.S. for another year or two.

Most of it is exactly where those models predicted, but those models don’t take into account wind and flotsam with large areas exposed to the wind, said Ebbesmeyer, who became famous for his and Ingraham’s ocean research into currents after large spills of Nike shoes and bath toys from container ships in the 1990s.

Flotsam in a current travels an average of seven miles per hour, but it can move as much as 20 mph if it has a large area exposed to the wind, he said.

The float that was found in Neah Bay sits well above the water, has a very shallow draft and is lightweight, exactly what Ingraham’s computer model said would show up first.

It was found by Surfrider beach cleanup crews working on a Makah-owned beach on the strait, a few miles east of Neah Bay, Ebbesmeyer said.

The black floats are seen in the middle of the Pacific by the hundreds, and are not something that has been seen on Eastern Pacific beaches before, he said.

The floats are included in masses of black blobs supporting huge rafts of debris that include fishing boats, houses and possibly human bodies, Ebbesmeyer said.

Many of those bodies and parts of bodies will likely begin washing up in about a year, some simply as feet in athletic shoes, similar to those found in Puget Sound over the last decade, he said.

Ebbesmeyer has done extensive research on those feet, and said that many more may be found in coming years.

Athletic shoes make the perfect floats to preserve parts of bodies, Ebbesmeyer said, and there are still thousands of people missing from tsunami-stricken areas of Japan.

Shoes with remains or other possibly human remains found on beaches should be reported to the appropriate authorities, either police, sheriff’s deputies or park rangers, he said.

If the debris has any kind of identifiable marking, such as numbers or Japanese writing, it may be traceable, Ebbesmeyer said.

“All debris should be treated with a great reverence and respect,” he said.

Families in Japan are waiting to hear of any items that may have been associated with their loved ones and may travel to the U.S. to meet those who found these mementos, he added.

Items that wash up may include portions of houses, boats, ships, furniture, portions of cars and just about anything else that floats, he said.

The rafts of debris include whole houses which may still contain many personal items, and the Japanese are known for storing important personal mementos in walls, Ebbesmeyer said.

Even the smallest of traceable items may be the only thing associated with one of those people who were lost during the disaster, he said.

Contact Ebbesmeyer at CurtisEbbesmeyer@comcast.net for assistance in translation and to track tsunami debris back to its Japanese origins.

“I have a translator to read things in Japanese,” he said.

Large items still in the water should be reported to the Coast Guard, as they may represent a hazard to boats and ships, he said.

Some shipping lanes have already been rerouted to avoid the worst of the debris, he said.

People should also be aware of the possibility of radiation contamination, he said.

The Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant leaked a large amount of radiation into the water in the wake of the tsunami, and no one knows what levels of contamination there are in the currents, and the items being carried in those currents, he said.

Ebbesmeyer suggested local police take steps to have sensitive Geiger counters available to scan items — just to be safe.

The event was unprecedented, and no one knows yet what levels of radiation, if any, items have picked up, he said.

________

Reporter Arwyn Rice can be reached at 360-417-3535 or at arwyn.rice@peninsuladailynews.com.

Last modified: December 14. 2011 5:12PM

http://www.peninsuladailyne...nami-reaches-olympic


I've seen pictures of the debris. It's really VERY staggering. Not to start anything, but I wonder if and how much of a radiation risk this debris represents. Likewise, can it be sent to a regular landfill, or will it have to be treated as radio-active waste material?
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Cold comfort for Fukushima

16 December 2011

Cold shutdown of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has now been officially recognised.


Fukushima Daiichi pre-March 2011 Japanese prime minister Yoshihiko Noda announced the status of the reactors during a meeting to discuss progress on the accident, saying that the achievement is considered as achieving 'convergence' with Tepco's roadmap for mitigating the accident. In other words, the recognition of cold shutdown formally brings to a close the 'accident' phase of events at the plant triggered by the 11 March tsunami.

Reactors are usually considered to be in cold shutdown when core temperatures inside the reactor are lower than 100°C. This condition was actually met by all of the Fukushima reactors over two months ago. However, in the case of the damaged reactors, the status also required radioactive releases to be brought under control, with operator Tepco not able to declare cold shutdown until releases were brought to a minimal level.

Tepco's roadmap had scheduled the achievement of cold shutdown by the end of 2011, although the stricken units were reported to be close to cold shutdown as long ago as October.

http://www.world-nuclear-ne...kushima-1612117.html
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phonedawgz

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Member since Dec 2009
 
quote
Originally posted by carnut122:

I've seen pictures of the debris. It's really VERY staggering. Not to start anything, but I wonder if and how much of a radiation risk this debris represents. Likewise, can it be sent to a regular landfill, or will it have to be treated as radio-active waste material?


Non-porous building materials can be washed down to remove the radioactive contaminates.
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quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:


Non-porous building materials can be washed down to remove the radioactive contaminates.

I can't even fathom that on the debris field I saw pictures of. I guess, if it's enough of a problem, we'll have no choice but to deal with it. Otherwise, I suspect it will churn in the surf until it's "gone."
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Japan tsunami flotsam begins washing ashore in B.C.


For the past few days a variety of bottles, cans and even pieces of lumber with Japanese writing have been carried by currents and the wind up to Tofino. Dec. 15, 2011.


Russian sailors spotted a floating debris cluster including a Fukushima-marked fishing boat 2,700 kilometres east of Hawaii. Dec. 15, 2011. (CTV)

Updated: Fri Dec. 16 2011 08:32:40

CTVNews.ca Staff

Bottles, cans and lumber from the tsunami that devastated Japan in March began washing up on British Columbia shores this week, more than a year earlier than oceanographers had initially predicted.

Winds and currents have carried the items -- emblazoned with Japanese characters -- nearly 21,000 kilometres across the Pacific Ocean. They began washing up in the Tofino area on Vancouver Island's west coast earlier this week.

Jean-Paul Froment, a longtime area resident, says he's used to seeing things wash up on the beach, but has never seen such a large quantity of debris? at once.

Tofino mayor Perry Schmunk said municipal workers will take special care in cleaning up the retrieved items.

"We will treat the whole thing with respect because everything that has come ashore has dealt with a significant human tragedy," said Schmunk.

The tsunami, which came after one of the most powerful earthquakes ever recorded, claimed more than 15,000 lives and damaged more than 100,000 buildings.

The flotsam now arriving in B.C. heralds a much larger cluster of debris on its way. Russian sailors have reported spotting a giant floating cluster of material, estimated to be twice the size of Texas, about 2,700 kilometres east of Hawaii. The items include a fishing boat marked "Fukushima."

Initially, scientists thought it would take until early 2013 for the debris to arrive in Hawaii, but it is moving much faster than expected.

In November, American oceanographer updated that predication, saying his computer models showed that drifting boats and houses could be arriving in B.C. at any time.

"When you look at what floats in the water . . . you will see find many objects travel three times faster than surface water," he told CTVNews.ca last month, saying large objects can travel across the north Pacific at a speed of about 35 kilometres a day. "Those objects stick up so high out of the water they actually catch the wind and sail very fast."

A smaller object -- propelled only by the ocean current -- travels at closer to 11 kilometres a day.

He warned cleanup crews and local officials should keep public safety in mind when handling and disposing of large objects, saying it's possible they could still contain radioactive water.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servl...216/?hub=CalgaryHome

[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 12-16-2011).]

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quote
Originally posted by carnut122:

I can't even fathom that on the debris field I saw pictures of. I guess, if it's enough of a problem, we'll have no choice but to deal with it. Otherwise, I suspect it will churn in the surf until it's "gone."


Remember this plant was huge and the amount of energy it generated was huge.

Per wikipedia - the plant produced an annual generation of 29,891 GW·h. At $0.15/KW-h (my estimate) retail, that was $4.48 billion retail. The total electrical output of the plant was $131.65 billion. I would not expect the cost of the clean up to be low.

btw, the plant - is located on bedrock - 32 feet above sea level.

"Site layout
The location of the plant was on a bluff which was originally 35-meters above sea level. During construction, however, TEPCO lowered the height of the bluff by 25-meters. One reason the bluff was lowered was so that the base of the reactors could be constructed on solid bedrock to mitigate the threat posed by earthquakes. Another reason was the lowered height would keep the running costs of the seawater pumps low. TEPCO did not factor in the tsunami risk when planning the site's construction. Therefore, the lowered height would result in the plant being more vulnerable to tsunami."

Also

"The reactor's emergency diesel generators and DC batteries, crucial components in helping keep the reactors cool in the event of a power loss, were located in the basements of the reactor turbine buildings. The reactor design plans provided by General Electric specified placing the generators and batteries in that location, but mid-level engineers working on the construction of the plant were concerned that this made the back up power systems vulnerable to flooding. TEPCO elected to strictly follow General Electric's design in the construction of the reactors."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik..._Nuclear_Power_Plant

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Report this Post12-16-2011 08:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
Japan’s Prime Minister Declares Fukushima Plant Stable
By HIROKO TABUCHI
Published: December 16, 2011


TOKYO — Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda of Japan has declared an end to the world’s worst nuclear crisis since Chernobyl, saying technicians have regained control of reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant.
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“Today, we have reached a great milestone,” Mr. Noda said in a televised address to the nation. “The reactors are stable, which should resolve one big cause of concern for us all.”

The declaration, nine months after a calamitous earthquake and tsunami set off a huge radiation leak, could set the stage for the return of more evacuees to affected areas.

But even before Mr. Noda’s announcement, some experts called the news premature, an attempt to quell continuing public anger over the accident and paper over remaining threats to the plant. The experts argue that the devastated plant remains vulnerable to large aftershocks, which could knock out the jury-rigged cooling system that helped workers bring the reactors into a relatively stable state known as a “cold shutdown.”

They also say the milestone of a cold shutdown, necessary before dismantling can begin, means less than usual because the nuclear fuel at three of the plant’s reactors has melted and some of it has apparently escaped the reactor vessels. That means that removing the fuel from the reactors, always a delicate process, will be much harder and more time-consuming.

Cold shutdown “is a term that has been trotted out to give the impression we are reaching some sort of closure,” said Hiroaki Koide, assistant professor at the Research Reactor Institute at Kyoto University and a prominent critic of nuclear power. “We still face a long battle of epic proportions, and by the time it is really over, most of us will be long dead.”

The government says dismantling the plant will take at least four decades.

Some experts even say that the restart of fission cannot be ruled out, but the Tokyo Electric Power Company, which runs the plant, has said any fission is not likely to be self-sustaining.

Although having the plant in a more stable state is good news, for many of the people of Fukushima — and even elsewhere in Japan — the crisis is far from over. More than 90,000 people remain displaced from the evacuation zone around the plant, and as the government begins lifting evacuation orders for some communities, many are refusing to return home.

“This does not ring true for us at all,” said Hirofumi Onuma, 52, deputy principal of a high school in Minamisoma, a city that like many places near the plant is contaminated, but not badly enough that the government has called for it to be abandoned. After a desperate cleanup effort in the city, the school was declared safe and reopened at the end of October. Still, only 350 of the 705 students have returned.

“The plant is like a black box, and we don’t know what is really happening,” Mr. Onuma said. “I feel no relief.”

People outside the most affected area remain worried about the country’s food supply.

Radioactive cesium, which could increase the risk of cancer, has been detected in a wide range of food products, including beef, tea leaves, mushrooms, baby formula and rice, the nation’s staple.

Prime Minister Noda, who came to power after his predecessor resigned amid public discontent over the crisis, has been trying hard to help the country return to a noncrisis footing. He is trying, for instance, to speed up the restarting of reactors around the country.

Only 8 of the nation’s 54 reactors are operating, as local communities resist the restarting of reactors closed for maintenance or inspection since the March disaster.

Even as he tried to move the country forward, however, Mr. Noda acknowledged on Friday that much work needed to be done. “Not all of our battles are over,” he said, “but we will fight to the end.”

Yasuko Kamiizumi contributed reporting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011...ma-plant-stable.html
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Japan: crucial stage reached in nuclear plant shutdown [Updated]
December 16, 2011 | 4:00 am

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REPORTING FROM SEOUL -– Japan declared Friday that the tsunami-stricken Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant has reached a condition that suggests a critical stable state known as a “cold shutdown” and has ceased to leak substantial amounts of radiation.

The development comes nine months after an earthquake-generated tsunami struck the coastal plant March 11, knocking out its cooling system and eventually causing a series of meltdowns.

The reactors at the Fukushima Daiichi plant have reached a state of cold shutdown, Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda told Cabinet members in an announcement intended to reassure Japan and the rest of the world that the nation is moving beyond its nuclear nightmare.

But critics say that continuing harm is being caused by the plant, stricken by what many call the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl, and that it will still take decades to fully decommission the facility.

Officials had predicted they would reach the cold shutdown state by early 2012, and Tokyo’s support of the claim by the plant’s operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., that the reactors have reached a crucial point is one more step toward finally encasing the plant in concrete as a precaution.

A 12-mile off-limits zone around the plant is expected to remain in effect for years, Japanese authorities acknowledge.

Officials say they can now move forward and begin reassessing dangers at evacuations areas around the plant. In the days following the March disaster, some 80,000 residents were evacuated from communities around the plant after the reactors spewed radioactivity into the air, sea and soil.

Still, Friday’s announcement was carefully worded, with officials suggesting that the plant had reached cold shutdown “conditions,” since the utility cannot measure temperatures of melted fuel in damaged reactors as precisely as they can in normal facilities.

Facility operators conceded that engineers will not be able to remove spent fuel from the three worst-hit reactors for 10 years, but say they may begin removing fuel from storage pools within the next two years.

Engineers said the plant’s more stable state came after the establishment of an improvised cooling system to circulate water through the damaged reactors. They have also set up a system to decontaminate radioactive water from the process.

But earlier this month, plant operators announced that 45 tons of highly radioactive water had leaked from that filtration system. Officials later acknowledged that some of that water had reached the Pacific Ocean.

Critics say the leak contradicted assurances that officials have limited the environmental damage at the plant 220 miles northeast of Tokyo. The radiation in the water from the most recent leak measured up to 322 times higher than government safety limits for various types of cesium.

Experts also worried about the detection of strontium, which they said remains in the human body for much longer than cesium and therefore presents a graver health hazard. Some independent sources have estimated that 80 gallons or more of strontium-tainted water has run into the ocean, twice the amount claimed by plant operators.

[Updated at 6:36 a.m., Dec. 16: Environmentalists blasted the government's claims of progress at Fukushima.

“By triumphantly declaring a cold shutdown, the Japanese authorities are clearly anxious to give the impression that the crisis has come to an end, which is clearly not the case," said a statement by the group Greenpeace. "Instead of creating a PR smokescreen to deflect attention away from the ongoing failure to help people living with the consequences of the disaster, the government’s priority should be to ensure public safety and begin the shutdown of all nuclear reactors in Japan.”]

And there are continuing signs that the fallout is entering the food system. A Japanese baby food manufacturer this month announced the recall of 400,000 cans of infant formula that reportedly contained traces of radioactive cesium connected to the Fukushima Daiichi meltdown.

Although radiation has been detected in food in Japan, including vegetables and fish, the finding marked the first time that poisonous isotopes have been found in baby formula.

The earthquake and tsunami left more than 20,000 either dead or missing along Japan’s northeast coast.

http://latimesblogs.latimes...nd-radiation-le.html
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Report this Post12-16-2011 09:00 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
There is a much much greater biological threat than there is a radiological one.

But continued fear mongering will mean the people will ignore the real risks and worry about the ones that are not nearly as significant.

 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

Japan tsunami flotsam begins washing ashore in B.C.


For the past few days a variety of bottles, cans and even pieces of lumber with Japanese writing have been carried by currents and the wind up to Tofino. Dec. 15, 2011.


Russian sailors spotted a floating debris cluster including a Fukushima-marked fishing boat 2,700 kilometres east of Hawaii. Dec. 15, 2011. (CTV)

Updated: Fri Dec. 16 2011 08:32:40

CTVNews.ca Staff

Bottles, cans and lumber from the tsunami that devastated Japan in March began washing up on British Columbia shores this week, more than a year earlier than oceanographers had initially predicted.

Winds and currents have carried the items -- emblazoned with Japanese characters -- nearly 21,000 kilometres across the Pacific Ocean. They began washing up in the Tofino area on Vancouver Island's west coast earlier this week.

Jean-Paul Froment, a longtime area resident, says he's used to seeing things wash up on the beach, but has never seen such a large quantity of debris? at once.

Tofino mayor Perry Schmunk said municipal workers will take special care in cleaning up the retrieved items.

"We will treat the whole thing with respect because everything that has come ashore has dealt with a significant human tragedy," said Schmunk.

The tsunami, which came after one of the most powerful earthquakes ever recorded, claimed more than 15,000 lives and damaged more than 100,000 buildings.

The flotsam now arriving in B.C. heralds a much larger cluster of debris on its way. Russian sailors have reported spotting a giant floating cluster of material, estimated to be twice the size of Texas, about 2,700 kilometres east of Hawaii. The items include a fishing boat marked "Fukushima."

Initially, scientists thought it would take until early 2013 for the debris to arrive in Hawaii, but it is moving much faster than expected.

In November, American oceanographer updated that predication, saying his computer models showed that drifting boats and houses could be arriving in B.C. at any time.

"When you look at what floats in the water . . . you will see find many objects travel three times faster than surface water," he told CTVNews.ca last month, saying large objects can travel across the north Pacific at a speed of about 35 kilometres a day. "Those objects stick up so high out of the water they actually catch the wind and sail very fast."

A smaller object -- propelled only by the ocean current -- travels at closer to 11 kilometres a day.

He warned cleanup crews and local officials should keep public safety in mind when handling and disposing of large objects, saying it's possible they could still contain radioactive water.

http://calgary.ctv.ca/servl...216/?hub=CalgaryHome



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Japan marks nuclear reactors milestone
By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 7:09 AM EST, Fri December 16, 2011
Click to play
'Cold shutdown' achieved at Fukushima
STORY HIGHLIGHTS

* The announcement means temperatures have stayed below the boiling point
* Experts say significant work -- with significant risks -- remains to be done
* Kyodo News: Scrapping crippled reactors could take 40 years
* 80,000 people who lived near the nuclear plant remain displaced

(CNN) -- Japan's Prime Minister said Friday that a "cold shutdown" has been achieved at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant, a symbolic milestone that means the plant's crippled reactors have stayed at temperatures below the boiling point for some time.

The announcement is a turning point in the crisis but experts say it will take years -- perhaps decades -- to fully clean up the worst nuclear disaster since Chernobyl.

The plume of radioactive particles that spewed from Fukushima Daiichi -- where reactor cooling systems failed in the aftermath of Japan's devastating earthquake and tsunami in March -- displaced about 80,000 people who lived within a 20-kilometer (12.5-mile) radius of the plant, as well as residents of one village as far as 40 kilometers to the northwest. The government has yet to determine when those evacuated can return to their homes.

Significant work -- with significant risks -- remains to be done at the plant.
Fukushima plant wreckage post earthquake
Fukushima chief ill
Tsunami debris bound for the U.S.

"This is far from over, and the work will go on for a long time," Tokyo Electric Power Co. President Toshio Nishizawa told CNN this week.

Citing government sources, Japan's Kyodo News agency reported Thursday that scrapping crippled reactors at the plant could take up to 40 years.

In October, a spokesman for Tokyo Electric -- which owns the plant -- said temperatures in the three reactors where meltdowns occurred had already been brought down below 100 degrees Celsius (212 degrees Fahrenheit), but the company would have to maintain those conditions for some time before declaring the reactors in cold shutdown.

"They're making this out to be some big milestone, some big thing. But the reality of this is that it's not," said Michael Friedlander, a former senior operator at U.S. nuclear power plants. "The problem is, with these reactors and the condition that they're in, to suggest that they're in cold shutdown really doesn't do justice to the situation. They're no safer today than they were basically in June."

Officials could start removing spent fuel rods from the facility next year, but it could be up to a decade before they are able to access the reactor vessels, he said.

"They'll probably spend two or three years studying it," he said.

Jack DeVine, who helped lead the cleanup of the Three Mile Island nuclear plant after the 1979 partial meltdown there, said the cold shutdown likely means officials may have one less thing to worry about. If they don't have to use as much water to cool the reactors, they also don't have to worry about what to do with contaminated cooling water -- one of many problems that have plagued workers at the crippled plant.

"It's not like there's a dramatic difference. It's just a gradual incremental difference that does make life easier," he said.

The earthquake and tsunami on March 11 killed more than 15,000 people in northeastern Japan. The country was on edge for weeks as cooling systems failed and utility and government employees scrambled to prevent a nuclear catastrophe at the six-reactor Daiichi plant, located about 240 kilometers (150 miles) north of Tokyo.

Hydrogen explosions blew apart the No. 1 and No. 3 reactor housings, while another hydrogen blast is suspected to have damaged the No. 2 reactor. Fires believed caused by heat from the No. 4 spent fuel pool damaged that unit's reactor building.

Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency eventually categorized the accident as a level-7 event -- the highest level on an international scale for nuclear disasters -- putting it on par with the 1986 Chernobyl disaster.

"We are going to check each reactor properly and determine what is going to happen to those left," Nishizawa, the Tokyo Electric president, said Wednesday.

Removing spent fuel rods is the next step, but officials need to further survey the area before that happens, he said.

"We are considering sending a robot into the fuel tanks to really have a good idea (about) the situation. This will be necessary when we take out the fuel," Nishizawa said. "But I don't believe what we see will be 180 degrees different from our simulations. But as we say, seeing once is better than hearing 100 times, so we will have a good look at what's happening inside."

At Three Mile Island, where damage was less severe and only one reactor was affected, it took two and half years before officials were able to get inside the reactor to assess it, DeVine said. At Fukushima Daiichi, that process will likely take much longer, he said.

"I think in terms of what's ahead, it's still the daunting task that it's always been, which is first of all, figuring out where everything is. ... They're going to be searching for and finding pieces of fuel, chunks of molten material that have now cooled, through all of that rubble," he said.

CNN's Catherine E. Shoichet and Matt Smith in Atlanta, and Licia Yee in Tokyo contributed to this report.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/12/...dex.html?iphoneemail
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Report this Post12-16-2011 09:08 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
So any wackos still claiming the fuel is 'going critical'?
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Report this Post12-16-2011 10:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

There is a much much greater biological threat than there is a radiological one.

But continued fear mongering will mean the people will ignore the real risks and worry about the ones that are not nearly as significant.



Don't remember calling that a radiological threat. Its going to be a large threat to wildlife on the coast if it all washes up on the beaches of the west coast.
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dennis_6

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quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

So any wackos still claiming the fuel is 'going critical'?


I think radioactive xenon and production of iodine 131 is pretty self explanatory, unless you rather believe a lie.
To answer your question, yes the very wacko alarmist former prime minister is claiming re criticality. Glad we have your infinite knowledge, and Tepco's infallible record to set us straight.

Hatoyama: Nationalize Fukushima N-plant

The Yomiuri Shimbun

Only by bringing the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant into government hands can scientists thoroughly discover what caused the nuclear crisis, former Prime Minister Yukio Hatoyama says in an article published in the Dec. 15 issue of the British science journal Nature.

In the two-page article coauthored by Hatoyama and Tomoyuki Taira, a fellow Democratic Party of Japan member of the House of Representatives, Hatoyama said the Fukushima plant "must be nationalized so that information can be gathered openly."

"A special science council should be created to help scientists from various disciplines to work together on the analyses," he said. "Through such a council, the technologies needed for decommissioning and decontamination...can be developed."

It is extremely rare for a major science journal to carry an article written by a former prime minister as a cover story, according to an official of Nature Japan.

In the article, Hatoyama criticizes Tokyo Electric Power Co., the operator of the crippled plant, for disclosing only limited information to Diet committees. He also hints at the possibility of recriticality at the plant and says there is still much about the crisis that needs clarification, including the state of the molten fuel within the nuclear reactors.

Hatoyama also says that he and Taira obtained data on samples of contaminated water TEPCO obtained from the basement of the plant's No. 1 reactor and asked an outside research institute to reanalyze them.

Results showed that radionuclide chlorine 38, one of the isotopes released during recriticality, "was indeed present," he claims.

TEPCO reported at one point that it found chlorine 38 in the sampled water, but the utility later retracted that statement, saying there was a mistake in the analysis.
(Dec. 16, 2011)

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy...al/T111215005428.htm


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Report this Post12-16-2011 11:02 PM Click Here to See the Profile for phonedawgzClick Here to visit phonedawgz's HomePageSend a Private Message to phonedawgzDirect Link to This Post
The story you quoted talked about potential radiological hazards but ignored any biological ones.

Didn't you read it?

 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:

Japan tsunami flotsam begins washing ashore in B.C.

...He warned cleanup crews and local officials should keep public safety in mind when handling and disposing of large objects, saying it's possible they could still contain radioactive water.


 
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:


Don't remember calling that a radiological threat. Its going to be a large threat to wildlife on the coast if it all washes up on the beaches of the west coast.

[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 12-16-2011).]

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Report this Post12-16-2011 11:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for dennis_6Send a Private Message to dennis_6Direct Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by phonedawgz:

The story you quoted talked about potential radiological hazards but ignored any biological ones.

Didn't you read it?



I guess you missed the fact it was the very last line of the article, and the only line that even mentioned radiation. I guess you missed the fact that it was only precautionary, no where in the article did it state radioactive doom is washing ashore. i would expect a small amount of the debris to be marginally radioactive, and it would be wise for clean up crews to keep that in mind. Thats not alarmist wacko, thats common sense.

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