It was a research project for power at military outposts.
The fact that lessons learned from it were also implemented in commercial power plants should be praised, not attacked.
It clearly was NOT a research project for the commercial nuclear power industry.
Even a wacko liberal like yourself should think the nuclear power companies should design their reactors to as robust as possible.
This is what I said..
"However, it was a research program for power generation, and most likely instrumental to the commercial nuclear program." So I can't even figure out your rabid rambling.
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01:07 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
TOKYO — Five government teams dealing with Japan's tsunami and nuclear catastrophes kept no detailed records, an official said on Friday, adding to a growing picture of chaos in Tokyo's disaster response.
Earlier this week the government said the nuclear disaster task force that ordered tens of thousands of evacuations had no written record of its decision-making process -- an essential component of disaster management.
Now the government has admitted having no minutes from a further four emergency committees, an admission likely to worsen the view of Tokyo's response to the world's worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl.
The five emergency bodies include the main disaster headquarters and the disaster victims assistance team, as well as the nuclear disaster task force, which was headed by then Prime Minister Naoto Kan and included all of his ministers.
These three committees failed to keep even brief summaries of their meetings, while two other task forces have only partial summaries.
Such records are usually thought of as essential for careful and coherent planning to mitigate the impact of future disasters.
Several other emergency committees kept only summaries of their meetings, leaving blanks in the record of how top officials addressed the aftermath of the tsunami and the atomic accident it spawned at Fukushima as reactors went into meltdown, spewing radiation over a wide area.
Deputy Prime Minister Katsuya Okada has instructed ministers to create summaries of the meetings by the end of February, an official at the Cabinet Office said.
Okada plans to hold a press conference later Friday to explain how the government failed to keep the records, the official said.
Kazuhiro Hayakawa, associate professor of administrative law at Omiya Law School said the lack of a written record was "ridiculous" and almost certainly a contravention of the legal requirement to keep minutes.
"No matter how much of an emergency it was, it is absurd that they did not keep records of the meetings, which were no doubt subject to the Archive Management Law" requiring a written record, he said.
"I doubt it was intentional on the part of the government. But I suspect government officials lacked a clear chain of command to order the creation of the records.
"This failure has deprived us of the possibility of studying what exactly happened" immediately after the disaster, he said.
Opposition parties leapt on the admission, calling it an example of the inexperience of the ruling Democratic Party of Japan.
"This is symbolic of the recklessness of the government," said Hirofumi Nakasone of the leading opposition Liberal Democratic Party.
Friday, January 27, 2012 #Fukushima I Nuke Plant: Full of Untrained, Migrant Workers, TEPCO Says Subcontractors Are Supposed to Train Them
Tokyo Shinbun is a regional newspaper covering Kanto region of Japan. It has been reporting on the Fukushima accident and resultant radiation contamination in a more honest and comprehensive manner than any national newspaper. (Their only shortcoming is that their links don't seem to last for more than a week.)
Their best coverage on the subject, though, is not available digitally but only in the printed version of the newspaper. But no worry, as there is always someone who transcribes the article and post it on the net for anyone to see.
In the 2nd half of the January 27 article, Tokyo Shinbun details what kind of workers are currently working at Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant: migrant workers young (in their 20's) and not so young (in their 60's), untrained, $100 a day. Some of them cannot even read and write.
From Tokyo Shinbun (1/27/2012):
(The first half of the article is asbout Mr. Osumi, the first worker to die in May last year after the plant "recovery" work started. About him and his Thai wife, please read my post from July 11, 2011.)
The relationship between the cause of Mr. Osumi's death and radiation exposure is unknown. However, it is still the radiation exposure that is most worrisome for the workers who work at Fukushima I Nuke Plant to wind down the accident. The radiation exposure limit was lowered back to the normal "maximum 50 millisieverts per year" and "100 millisieverts in 5 years" on December 16 last year. It was done on the declaration of "the end of the accident" by Prime Minister Noda that day.
The radiation exposure limit was raised to 250 millisieverts per year right after the accident, as a special measure. The Ministry of Health and Labor argued that the number was based on the international standard for a severe accident which was 500 millisieverts. But the real purpose was to increase the number of hours that can be put in by the workers and to increase the number of workers to promptly wind down the accident.
According to TEPCO, the radiation exposure levels of workers exceeded [annualized?] 250 millisieverts in some cases right after the accident, but since April it has been within 100 millisieverts.
"Right now, 70% of workers at the plant are migrant contract workers from all over Japan. Most of them have never worked at nuke plants before. The pay is 8000 yen to 13,000 yen [US$104 to $170] per day. Most of them are either in their 20s who are finding it difficult to land on any job, or in their 60s who have "graduated" from the previous jobs."
As to the safety management, he said, "Before you start working at a nuclear power plant, you have to go through the "training before entering radiation control area". But in reality the training is ceremonial. The assumptions in the textbook do not match the real job site in an emergency situation. There were some who could not read, but someone else filled in the test for them at the end of the training."
"Then the workers start working at the site. But there are not enough radiation control personnel who measure radiation levels in the high-radiation locations, and warn and instruct the workers. There are too many workers because the nature of the work is to wind down the accident. There are workers who take off their masks or who smoke even in the dangerous [high radiation] locations. I'm worried for their internal radiation exposures."
In the rest area where the workers eat lunch and smoke, the radiation level is 12 microsieverts/hour. "Among workers, we don't talk about radiation levels. There's no point."
The worker divulged to us, "For now, they've managed to get workers from all over Japan. But there won't be enough workers by summer, all bosses at the employment agencies say so." Local construction companies also admit [to the scarcity of workers by summer.]
"Local contractors who have been involved in the work at Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant do not work there any more. It's dangerous, and there are jobs other than at the nuke plant, such as construction of temporary housing. The professional migrant workers who hop from one nuclear plant to another all over Japan avoid Fukushima I Nuke Plant. The pay is not particularly good, so what is the point of getting high radiation to the max allowed and losing the opportunity to work in other nuclear plants? So, it's mostly amateurs who work at the plant right now. Sooner or later, the supply of workers will dry up."
As to the working conditions and wage levels of the subcontract workers, TEPCO's PR person explains, "We believe the subcontracting companies are providing appropriate guidance." As to securing the workers, he emphasizes that "there is no problem at this point in sourcing enough workers. We will secure necessary workers depending on how the work progresses."
However, Katsuyasu Iida, Director General of Tokyo Occupational Safety and Health Center who have been dealing with the health problems of nuclear workers, points out, "Workers are made to work in a dangerous environment. The wage levels are going down, and there are cases of non-payment. It is getting harder to secure the workers."
He also says the safety management cannot be fully enforced by TEPCO alone, and demands the national government to step in. "They need to come up with the management system that include the subcontract workers. Unless they secure the [safe] work environment and work conditions, they cannot deal with the restoration work that may continue for a long while."
Memo from the desk [at Tokyo Shinbun]: Workers at Fukushima I Nuke Plant are risking their lives. Some are doing it for 8000 yen per day. A councilman who also happens to work for TEPCO earns more than 10 million yen [US$130,000] per year. Executives who "descended from heaven" to cushy jobs in the "nuclear energy village" are alive and well. To move away from nuclear power generation is not just about energy issues. It is to question whether we will continue to ignore such "absurdity".
Well said. Everybody in the nuclear industry in Japan knew that the industry depended (still does) on migrant workers who were (still are) hired on the cheap thorough layer after layer of subcontracting companies. Thanks to the Fukushima I Nuclear Plant accident, now the general public know that. But there are plenty of those who are still comfortable with the nuclear power generated by the nuclear power plants maintained at the expense of such workers and see nothing wrong with it.
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens Posted by Mochizuki on January 27th, 2012 · 6 Comments
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens Posted by Mochizuki on January 27th, 2012 · 6 Comments
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens
Following up this article ..JP Gov is planning to remove the antu-nuclear tent in front of METI
Japanese government was planning to remove the tents on 5 PM 1/27/2012.
To protect the tents, about 750 Japanese citizens gathered at the tents from 3 PM of the day.
Media and police came but because it became too busy, they could not remove the tents.
After all, staff from ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry did not even show up.
More than 10,000 viewers watched Niko niko live streaming, women from Fukushima, Fukushima farmers claimed,
“Fukushima is still hell of radiation. We will not forgive Tepco managers to spend their luxury lives.â€
It was almost like screaming. Anger and sympathy took over the place.
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens
↓ At 3:30 PM. It’s already starting to be full of people.
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens 2
↓At 4:00 PM, demonstration started.
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens 3
↓A monk claims, it’s nuclear plants to remove. Not this tent.
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens 4
↓More and more people attended.
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens 5
↓Chant slogans to METI. (The board says, “Tepco compensate to people who evacuated spontaneously.â€(The right one) “Demise Tepcoâ€(The left one).)
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens 6
↓A Fukushima farmer gave a speech. “Fukushima became Chernobyl.â€
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens 7
↓Playing the traditional song and dance of Aizu Fukushima.
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens 7
↓Demonstration ended at 6:00PM.
JP Gov VS Japanese citizens 8
↓A Fukushima farmer gave a speech.
He had his whole life destroyed.
Yet he can’t abandon their cattle.
I’m sorry for him. I can’t stop crying to watch it.
I guess this is enough to abandon all the nuclear power plants in the world.
He’s trying to find out the meaning of his collapsed life, but at the same time, he knows it’s already over too.
Nuclear took everything from him. This is the shout of the man who lost everything because of nuclear.
<Translation>
I’m the owner of the farm in Namie machi, where still 300 cattle are. I live in 14 km area from Fukushima plants. I heard the explosion twice. I saw the splashing ash and smoke with my own eyes. I couldn’t abandon my cattle in the first week,. On 3/17, I thought my cattle can no longer live long, made up mind going to Tokyo. I came to Tepco’s head office with campaigner’s car on 3/18. I was the first one to do it in Fukushima.
Everyone, my cattle have no value as product. It’s zero. It’s completely meaningless to exist now. They have been exposed to radiation, can’t sell them out anymore. I told Tepco, I will definitely claim for damage. and, pushing all the risk to self defense force and the Fire and Disaster Management Agency to settle it down, how dare you escape. I claimed them as crying.
Stop Fukushima plants to die if necessary. We need someone to die, someone must die to settle it down.
When I left my farm, I left a message, Save our lives. This is our deadly struggle. Unite.
Earthquake, Tsunami, and the nuclear plants to attack us. Get fully prepared to die if necessary and try to settle it down. We must fight, how dare you escape. I still think so.
Now my cattle are deeply contaminated by cesium, and my body is contaminated as much as them. In 6 microSv/h, I feed them everyday.
They had a lot of babies. Because of the lack of crops, and the cold weather, they are dying one after one.
Spring will come, Summer will come, grass of ranch will grow again, I believe. I want people to make the best of them for study of radiation exposure, decontamination, and to have the huge dead rice field come back alive by using my cattle somehow in Futabagun. I’m now trying to make the government, and The Ministry of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries develop the project. I believe my cattle of hope will be useful for the recovery of Fukushima. No more nuclear power to Fukushima.
However, I know it’s too late. It’s already bad as Chernobyl. Our town has gotten Chernobyl in it. Who’s to blame ? Who destroyed our life, and our future ?
Burning the rest of my life, I will definitely claim for damage from Tepco and Japanese government. We won’t let them operate the nuclear plants, won’t let them re-start the nuclear plants. We can live without nuclear plants. Everyone unite and take action.
Tokyo Electric Power Company has found water leaks in 14 locations at the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant.
The utility says the leaks apparently occurred after frozen water ruptured the pipes and the leaked water did not contain any radioactive materials.
Tokyo Electric said about 40 liters of water leaked from a cooling system for a spent fuel pool at the No.4 reactor on Sunday, but the flow stopped when workers closed the valve.
The company said the leak forced the system to stop for one hour and 40 minutes, but the pool's temperature did not rise.
Tokyo Electric said 7 tons of water had leaked from the No.6 reactor.
The temperature fell to minus 8 degrees Celsius on Sunday morning near the damaged plant.
Ruptured pipes caused 3 water leaks on the previous day.
Tokyo Electric official Junichi Matsumoto admitted that the utility failed to take sufficient steps to prevent frozen pipes. He said it will take quick action to protect the pipes from the cold weather.
The water in the pipes is freezing with the outside temperature at -6° Celsius and you are still trying to tell us this plant is going critical?
Fat chance on that one.
Even you know the cooling pipes going to the reactor, outside the plant, have nothing to do with the melted fuel, that has melted into the concrete. They said the water was not radioactive, so its water that is feeding into, and not out of the reactor.
You knew all this, just trying to deceive and manipulate again. Pathetic.
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09:29 AM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Title: Counting the Costs: Three Mile Island Source: Listener’s Choice from CBC Radio Date: June 6th, 2008
* Reports we are getting say infant mortality rates doubled * More important is the enormous increase in cancer deaths in children in the four counties surrounding TMI compared to the numbers previous to the accident that the health department listed even on say leukemia * Animals and plants damaged substantially * We have done an in-depth report on plant life * We are seeing many mutations * We saw the leaves the first year * All the birds on the farm disappeared * The trees, it looked like winter * Not only did we see complete defoliation, we saw trees defoliated at different levels http://enenews.com/cbc-on-t...tions-observed-video
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09:56 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Pathetic is trying to argue that the reactor is going critical but somehow it not hot enough to keep the water from freezing.
It doesn't matter if the cooling system is a primary cooling loop, a secondary cooling loop or even a tertiary cooling loop. If heat is being generated inside the plant, and this system is to cool it, then that heat must be dissipated via this link in the cooling chain.
As to your 'water into, not out of the reactor' - they use cooling loops to cool the reactor. No they don't feed water into the reactor and then just dump it out on the ground or into the ocean.
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
Even you know the cooling pipes going to the reactor, outside the plant, have nothing to do with the melted fuel, that has melted into the concrete. They said the water was not radioactive, so its water that is feeding into, and not out of the reactor.
You knew all this, just trying to deceive and manipulate again. Pathetic.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-30-2012).]
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10:27 AM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Pathetic is trying to argue that the reactor is going critical but somehow it not hot enough to keep the water from freezing.
It doesn't matter if the cooling system is a primary cooling loop, a secondary cooling loop or even a tertiary cooling loop. If heat is being generated inside the plant, and this system is to cool it, then that heat must be dissipated via this link in the cooling chain.
As to your 'water into, not out of the reactor' - they use cooling loops to cool the reactor. No they don't feed water into the reactor and then just dump it out on the ground or into the ocean.
If the reactor vessel is empty, cooling it wouldn't exactly heat up the water would it? It kinda funny you say they don't just dump it in the ocean, because Tepco did for the longest time, and its debatable about how much of it is still being dumped in the ocean. Why do you think near 3/4 of the contamination is in the ocean?
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12:55 PM
PFF
System Bot
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
So your argument is that the majority of the core is located in the water filled drywell under the reactor vessel, and that core is going critical, thus quite hot, but somehow that is not boiling the water and for sure not heating the circulating water enough to keep it from freezing?
Again - Fat chance.
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02:47 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
So your argument is that the majority of the core is located in the water filled drywell under the reactor vessel, and that core is going critical, thus quite hot, but somehow that is not boiling the water and for sure not heating the circulating water enough to keep it from freezing?
Again - Fat chance.
Gee, I wonder where all the steam, the camera inside reactor 2 caught, came from? Duh.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 01-30-2012).]
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10:39 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Maybe someone didn't turn on the fan when they took a shower?
Water well under 100° C still makes steam. Where is the real heat if the melted core is going critical?
How much heat do you expect in the reactor vessel, when the fuel according to even Tepco is in the drywell? Tepco stated they couldn't even find water. That should be telling you something, and the pipes are not freezing in the reactor vessel, they are freezing outside of it. All you want is to distort the truth.
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01:54 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
If you think the remains of the core is critical, where do you think that heat energy is being dissipated?
Show me where I said the core remains critical, I said the core may be going critical time to time. Until they actually find the core, it remains to be seen if its even in the drywell. It may even be in the ground.
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09:33 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
"Critical or supercritical nuclear fission (one that is sustained in power or increasing in power) generally occurs inside reactor cores and occasionally within test environments. A criticality accident occurs when a critical reaction is achieved unintentionally. Although dangerous, typical criticality accidents cannot reproduce the design conditions of a fission bomb, so nuclear explosions do not occur. The heat released by the nuclear reaction will typically cause the fissile material to expand, so that the nuclear reaction becomes subcritical again within a few seconds."
So again what is it that you think is occurring mechanically or magically that is causing the melted core to go in and out of criticality? And to answer my question, clearly you have as usual no idea of what you are talking about. And as usual the fact that you don't doesn't slow you down the least.
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05:12 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
"Critical or supercritical nuclear fission (one that is sustained in power or increasing in power) generally occurs inside reactor cores and occasionally within test environments. A criticality accident occurs when a critical reaction is achieved unintentionally. Although dangerous, typical criticality accidents cannot reproduce the design conditions of a fission bomb, so nuclear explosions do not occur. The heat released by the nuclear reaction will typically cause the fissile material to expand, so that the nuclear reaction becomes subcritical again within a few seconds."
So again what is it that you think is occurring mechanically or magically that is causing the melted core to go in and out of criticality? And to answer my question, clearly you have as usual no idea of what you are talking about. And as usual the fact that you don't doesn't slow you down the least.
Read what you quoted again, and think long and hard about it. Its really not that hard to understand. Wait, yes it is, that industry paychecks makes you brain dead.
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08:38 PM
PFF
System Bot
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
You are not fooling anyone. You have absolutely no clue. However I will give you another chance...
so if it is so easy then explain what is happening physically, mystically, magically or whatever that is causing the core remains to go in and out of a critical state.
So your explanation will need a moderator to convert fast neutrons to thermal neutrons. That or an explanation of how the fuel somehow enriched itself.
Answer the question
Or if you wish instead, just state that you, as usual, were just talking out of your ass.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 01-31-2012).]
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09:17 PM
Feb 1st, 2012
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
You are not fooling anyone. You have absolutely no clue. However I will give you another chance...
so if it is so easy then explain what is happening physically, mystically, magically or whatever that is causing the core remains to go in and out of a critical state.
So your explanation will need a moderator to convert fast neutrons to thermal neutrons. That or an explanation of how the fuel somehow enriched itself.
Answer the question
Or if you wish instead, just state that you, as usual, were just talking out of your ass.
They key statement from your source. Thermal neutrons will be more likely to cause uranium-235 to fission when it is struck by the neutrons, BTW, one of the reactors is using MOX fuel.
As far as enrichment, it doesn't have to be enriched to nuclear weapon specs.
Nuclear power relies on fissionable material that can sustain a chain reaction with neutrons. Examples of such materials include uranium and plutonium. Most nuclear reactors use a moderator to lower the kinetic energy of the neutrons and increase the probability that fission will occur. This allows reactors to use material with far lower concentration of fissile isotopes than nuclear weapons. Graphite and heavy water are the most effective moderators, because they slow the neutrons through collisions without absorbing them. Reactors using heavy water or graphite as the moderator can operate using natural uranium. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fuel_cycle Notice, how it states it isn't impossible for fission to occur with out the thermal neutrons, also notice how reactor fuel still contains fissile fuel? It is enriched, just to a lower amount.
A criticality accident, sometimes referred to as an excursion or a power excursion, is an accidental increase of nuclear chain reactions in a fissile material, such as enriched uranium or plutonium. This releases a surge of neutron radiation which is highly dangerous to humans and causes induced radioactivity in the surroundings.
Critical or supercritical nuclear fission (one that is sustained in power or increasing in power) generally occurs inside reactor cores and occasionally within test environments. A criticality accident occurs when a critical reaction is achieved unintentionally. Although dangerous, typical criticality accidents cannot reproduce the design conditions of a fission bomb, so nuclear explosions do not occur. The heat released by the nuclear reaction will typically cause the fissile material to expand, so that the nuclear reaction becomes subcritical again within a few seconds.
In the history of atomic power development, sixty criticality accidents have occurred in collections of fissile materials outside nuclear reactors and some of these have resulted in death, by radiation exposure, of the nearest person(s) to the event. However, none has resulted in explosions
I'm curious. He asks you lots of very simple and direct questions, but I have not often or perhaps ever, seen you directly answer one. Instead, you just post more C&P. Why is that? Why do you not answer?
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01:47 AM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
I'm curious. He asks you lots of very simple and direct questions, but I have not often or perhaps ever, seen you directly answer one. Instead, you just post more C&P. Why is that? Why do you not answer?
I did answer him, and he doesn't ask questions, he sets traps. I refuse to step into those traps. If you seen the geiger counter argument, which I posted more than enough proof that he was wrong, you know what I am talking about. I only posted enough for him to know his game wasn't going to work with me, however for everyone else to see what is going on. I edited my original post with enough information to show the game he is playing. Phonedawgz, knew what he was posting was incorrect, he was hoping I wouldn't be intelligent enough to catch it.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 02-01-2012).]
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12:14 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Title: Kono Taro on Japan’s reaction to the Fukushima nuclear disaster Source: If You Love This Planet Radio w/ Dr. Helen Caldicott Date: Jan 27, 2012
This week, Dr. Caldicott speaks with Kono Taro for an in-depth look at Japan’s reaction to the Fukushima meltdown. Kono is Director General of Japan’s Liberal Democratic Party’s International bureau and a fifth-term Member of the House of Representatives in Japan.
Transcript Summary
All the monitoring posts went down after tsunami Tepco told us they were not able to recover monitoring posts After even one week they were not able to recover the power for the monitoring posts I now believe Tepco was trying to hide the numbers People in Japan were deceived for many days to come
「 メルトアウト　〠も〠時間ã®å•é¡Œ ・・・ ã¨ã„ã†ã“ã¨ã«ãªã‚Šã¾ã™ã€‚ It’s only the matter of time for it to have melt-out.
ã‚‚ã£ã¦ã€ã‚㨠１年 ・・・。 The longest time would be one year.
ãã®ã•ãªã‹ã«ã€åœ°éœ‡ãŒæ¥ãŸã‚‰ã€ã‚¢ã‚¦ãƒˆã§ã™ã€‚ If another earthquake hits it, it’s over.
ã‚ã®æ§‹é€ ã ã¨ã€ 「 メルトアウト　〠ã—ãŸã‚‰ã€æµ·ã«æµã‚Œå‡ºã¾ã™ã€‚ Technically speaking, if it goes melt-out, it would flow to the sea. æ—¥æœ¬ã® ã€Œå¤ªå¹³æ´‹å´ ã€ ã¨ã€€ã€Œ アメリカ 西海岸 〠ã«ã¯ã€ 人ãŒä½ã‚ãªããªã‚Šã¾ã™ã€‚ Pacific ocean side of Japan and west side of America won’t be inhabitable anymore.
<Translation> 1/31/2012, 10:30PM, Tepco employee found water leakage from the test line of jet pump calculation rack located on the first floor of reactor 4. 10:43 PM, they stopped it by turning off the tap connected to the rack. The floor is full of the debris. As long as they confirmed, more than 6L of water leaked. None of it leaked to the outside of the reactor building. From the result of the measurement, it was contaminated as 35.5 Bq/cm3 (= 35,500 Bq/L), they assume the water is from the well of the reactor. (Cf. The measurement data of the well of reactor was 39 Bq/cm3 on 12/8/2012.) They are going to explain it on the press conference of 2/1/2012 11:00AM. <End> Iori Mochizuki
Radioactive water leaking from inside Fukushima No. 4 reactor TOKYO (Kyodo) -- Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday that it has found radioactive water leaking from a broken pipe connected to the No. 4 reactor of the crisis-hit Fukushima Daiichi power plant, but added that the liquid has not flowed outside the reactor building.
At the time of the devastating earthquake and tsunami last March 11, the reactor's fuel rods were in its spent fuel pool due to maintenance work that was taking place. The water contains radioactive materials as it is mixed up with water that is in contact with the fuel in the spent fuel tank.
According to the utility known as TEPCO, about 6 liters of water were found to have leaked onto the floor of the No. 4 unit building at 10:30 p.m. Tuesday. The leak was stopped at 10:43 p.m. by closing a valve, officials said.
The utility is looking into the cause of the damage to the pipe and believes it may have some connection with the recent cold weather or the explosions that took place at the plant in the early phase of the nuclear crisis.
The density of radioactive substances included in the water is estimated at 35.5 becquerels per cubic centimeter, according to TEPCO.
TEPCO says 8.5 tons of water leaked from Fukushima No. 4 reactor
TOKYO, Feb. 1, Kyodo
Tokyo Electric Power Co. said Wednesday that 8.5 tons of radioactive water leaked from the No. 4 reactor of the crisis-hit Fukushima Daiichi power plant because a pipe connected to the reactor dropped off, but added that the liquid has not flowed outside the reactor building.
At the time of the devastating earthquake and tsunami last March 11, the reactor's fuel rods were in its spent fuel pool due to maintenance work that was taking place. The water contains radioactive materials as it is mixed up with water that is in contact with the fuel in the spent fuel tank.
According to the utility known as TEPCO, water was found to have leaked onto the floor of the No. 4 unit building at 10:30 p.m. Tuesday. The leak was stopped at 10:43 p.m. by closing a valve, officials said. http://english.kyodonews.jp.../2012/02/139493.html ------------------ Wow from 6L to 8.5 tons, that was only a small miscalculation. I see tepco is well on schedule here, and the plant is completely under control.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 02-01-2012).]
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01:49 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
TEPCO to ratchet up efforts to decontaminate water
January 30, 2012
By TAKASHI SUGIMOTO / Staff Writer
To prevent a further contamination of the sea as occurred in December, Tokyo Electric Power Co. plans to remove about 1,000 kinds of radioactive materials from water at the crippled Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, sources said on Jan. 28.
The utility will start installing equipment in March for the removal of the radioactive materials, including not only cesium, but also strontium, cobalt and manganese, the sources added.
According to the sources, TEPCO is currently purifying contaminated water by using two kinds of devices in which a mineral, zeolite, absorbs cesium. However, those devices cannot remove other radioactive materials, such as strontium.
In December, contaminated water containing strontium whose concentration level was 1 million times higher than the government’s safety standard leaked into the sea, though the cesium had been removed.
To prevent the recurrence of a similar leakage, TEPCO decided to remove more kinds of radioactive materials. In the plan, water and waste liquids that were used to absorb cesium will be further purified by new equipment.
The design of the new equipment has yet to be decided. In the device, however, radioactive materials will be absorbed onto the surfaces of minerals or resins. By using a variety of agents that promote absorption, the utility plans to remove various radioactive substances.
In the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear plant, contaminated water that was apparently injected into nuclear reactors to help cool them are flowing into buildings in the compound. The amount ranges from 200 tons to 500 tons per day.
To process the water without delay, the new equipment will have the ability of purifying about 500 tons a day. Minerals and resins that absorbed radioactive materials will be placed into special bags and dehydrated. Then, they will be stored for about 20 years.
The new equipment will not be able to remove radioactive hydrogen, called tritium. However, concentration levels of most other radioactive materials will become much lower than the government’s safety standards after the contaminated water is purified by the new equipment.
Initially, TEPCO considered discharging the water into the sea after purifying it. But it faced strong opposition from the central and local governments to the plan.
In addition, the utility’s in-house rules on the safety management of the Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant read, “Water that was used to process contaminated water must not be discharged (into the sea) without the approval of ministries and agencies concerned.â€
You had no clue on the Geiger Counter discussion either. You tried to argue since both Geiger Counter measurements and radioactive decays in a sample of a material are measured in decays per unit time that they were the same.
A Geiger Counter counts the number of decay particles that pass through it's detector. That is not the same as the number of decays in a sample of material. The decay particles go in all directions. Only a small portion of those decay particles would pass through the detector of a Geiger Counter.
A Geiger Counter's measurement will drop at the cube of the distance between the sample and the counter. The number of decays per unit time of a sample is just that. It is not dependent of the distance.
A Geiger Counter's measurement will vary depending on shielding.
No just because they are expressed in the same units, they are not the same.
And clearly you are still talking out of your ass and have no idea what you are saying. You are a fool if you think anyone is tricked into believing you with your non-answers.
The trap that is set is yours when you state things you have no idea about what you are talking about. Your answers clearly show you have already put your foot in your own stupidity trap.
Again - Answer the question.
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
I did answer him, and he doesn't ask questions, he sets traps. I refuse to step into those traps. If you seen the geiger counter argument, which I posted more than enough proof that he was wrong, you know what I am talking about. I only posted enough for him to know his game wasn't going to work with me, however for everyone else to see what is going on. I edited my original post with enough information to show the game he is playing. Phonedawgz, knew what he was posting was incorrect, he was hoping I wouldn't be intelligent enough to catch it.
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 02-01-2012).]
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02:38 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
You had no clue on the Geiger Counter discussion either. You tried to argue since both Geiger Counter measurements and radioactive decays in a sample of a material are measured in decays per unit time that they were the same.
A Geiger Counter counts the number of decay particles that pass through it's detector. That is not the same as the number of decays in a sample of material. The decay particles go in all directions. Only a small portion of those decay particles would pass through the detector of a Geiger Counter.
A Geiger Counter's measurement will drop at the cube of the distance between the sample and the counter. The number of decays per unit time of a sample is just that. It is not dependent of the distance.
A Geiger Counter's measurement will vary depending on shielding.
No just because they are expressed in the same units, they are not the same.
And clearly you are still talking out of your ass and have no idea what you are saying. You are a fool if you think anyone is tricked into believing you with your non-answers.
The trap that is set is yours when you state things you have no idea about what you are talking about. Your answers clearly show you have already put your foot in your own stupidity trap.
Again - Answer the question.
I did answer the question and thoroughly. You are once again proving you are a liar, and a idiot.
Also evidently you need to back and read your position, where you were trying to claim the sample measurements were not accurate, because they detected different units even though they were the same unit. It was the stupidest statement that you ever typed.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 02-01-2012).]
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06:48 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
See a detailed answer to your question, I am done with your idiotic game. You don't care about facts, you care about deception.
quote
Originally posted by dennis_6:
They key statement from your source. Thermal neutrons will be more likely to cause uranium-235 to fission when it is struck by the neutrons, BTW, one of the reactors is using MOX fuel.
As far as enrichment, it doesn't have to be enriched to nuclear weapon specs.
Nuclear power relies on fissionable material that can sustain a chain reaction with neutrons. Examples of such materials include uranium and plutonium. Most nuclear reactors use a moderator to lower the kinetic energy of the neutrons and increase the probability that fission will occur. This allows reactors to use material with far lower concentration of fissile isotopes than nuclear weapons. Graphite and heavy water are the most effective moderators, because they slow the neutrons through collisions without absorbing them. Reactors using heavy water or graphite as the moderator can operate using natural uranium. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fuel_cycle Notice, how it states it isn't impossible for fission to occur with out the thermal neutrons, also notice how reactor fuel still contains fissile fuel? It is enriched, just to a lower amount.
A criticality accident, sometimes referred to as an excursion or a power excursion, is an accidental increase of nuclear chain reactions in a fissile material, such as enriched uranium or plutonium. This releases a surge of neutron radiation which is highly dangerous to humans and causes induced radioactivity in the surroundings.
Critical or supercritical nuclear fission (one that is sustained in power or increasing in power) generally occurs inside reactor cores and occasionally within test environments. A criticality accident occurs when a critical reaction is achieved unintentionally. Although dangerous, typical criticality accidents cannot reproduce the design conditions of a fission bomb, so nuclear explosions do not occur. The heat released by the nuclear reaction will typically cause the fissile material to expand, so that the nuclear reaction becomes subcritical again within a few seconds.
In the history of atomic power development, sixty criticality accidents have occurred in collections of fissile materials outside nuclear reactors and some of these have resulted in death, by radiation exposure, of the nearest person(s) to the event. However, none has resulted in explosions
Why does it go in and out of criticality? Its not magic, as I said before, google criticality accident.
Btw, you do understand they CALIBRATE geiger counters to known samples so that geiger counters measuring at standard testing distances give the right readings? Nope, because you truly are a fool.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 02-01-2012).]
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09:28 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
For enrichment at concentrations used in nuclear power plant fuel, a moderator is needed to produce a critical reaction level.
They use a lower level of enrichment so if the moderator is not present, the reaction can not be sustained. If the core melts and collects at the bottom of the vessel, or dry well, or into the ground, the fact that the nuclear fuel's low level enriched uranium is not interspersed with water keeps the fuel from going critical.
This is why a nuclear power plant can not explode like a nuclear bomb.
Fission is when the nucleus of an atom divides. The reactor is considered to be at a critical power level is when enough atoms divide producing neutrons that cause the same level of atoms or more to divide. Fission levels less than that are sub critical.
Again Fission <> Criticality
Non-thermal neutrons are much less likely to cause a uranium atom to fission. So without a moderator to thermalize the neutrons, the lower level enriched fuel can not go critical.
Trying to argue that a moderator is not needed for a critical reaction with nuclear power grade fuel violates basic nuclear engineering.
So unless you can explain how the fuel gets arranged so the water can act as a moderator, and then gets un-arranged, and then gets arranged again, you have not answered the question.
What mechanism do you think is happening that is making the reactor go in and out of criticality?
[This message has been edited by phonedawgz (edited 02-02-2012).]
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10:56 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Btw, you do understand they CALIBRATE geiger counters to known samples so that geiger counters measuring at standard testing distances give the right readings? Nope, because you truly are a fool.
And your statement reinforces exactly what I stated before and state now - A Geiger Counter measures the radiation particles that pass through it's detector. It does not measure the total number of decays in a sample.
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11:17 PM
Feb 2nd, 2012
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
And your statement reinforces exactly what I stated before and state now - A Geiger Counter measures the radiation particles that pass through it's detector. It does not measure the total number of decays in a sample.
Moron, your point then, was the geiger counter results were not accurate, because they did not meter actual CPM.
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12:39 AM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
