By ERIC TALMADGE and MARI YAMAGUCHI, Associated Press FUKUSHIMA, Japan – Japanese officials reported progress Sunday in their battle to gain control over a leaking, tsunami-stricken nuclear complex, though the crisis was far from over, with the discovery of more radiation-tainted vegetables and tap water adding to public fears about contaminated food and drink.
The announcement by Japan's Health Ministry late Sunday that tests had detected excess amounts of radioactive elements on canola and chrysanthemum greens marked a low moment in a day that had been peppered with bits of positive news: First, a teenager and his grandmother were found alive nine days after being trapped in their earthquake-shattered home. Then, the operator of the overheated nuclear plant said two of the six reactor units were safely cooled down.
"We consider that now we have come to a situation where we are very close to getting the situation under control," Deputy Cabinet Secretary Tetsuro Fukuyama said.
Still, serious problems remained at the Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear complex. Pressure unexpectedly rose in a third unit's reactor, meaning plant operators may need to deliberately release radioactive steam. That has only added to public anxiety over radiation that began leaking from the plant after a monstrous earthquake and tsunami devastated northeastern Japan on March 11 and left the plant unstable. As day broke Monday, Japan's military resumed dousing of the complex's troubled Unit 4.
The safety of food and water was of particular concern. The government halted shipments of spinach from one area and raw milk from another near the nuclear plant after tests found iodine exceeded safety limits. But the contamination spread to spinach in three other prefectures and to more vegetables — canola and chrysanthemum greens. Tokyo's tap water, where iodine turned up Friday, now has cesium. Rain and dust are also tainted.
The Health Ministry also advised Iitate, a village of 6,000 people about 30 kilometers (19 miles) northwest of the Fukushima plant, not to drink tap water due to elevated levels of iodine. Ministry spokesman Takayuki Matsuda said iodine three times the normal level was detected there — about one twenty-sixth of the level of a chest X-ray.
In all cases, the government said the radiation levels were too small to pose an immediate health risk. But Taiwan seized a batch of fava beans from Japan found with faint — and legal — amounts of iodine and cesium.
"I'm worried, really worried," said Mayumi Mizutani, a 58-year-old Tokyo resident shopping for bottled water at a supermarket to give her visiting 2-year-old grandchild. "We're afraid because it's possible our grandchild could get cancer." Forecasts for rain, she said, were also a cause for concern.
All six of the nuclear complex's reactor units saw trouble after the disasters knocked out cooling systems. In a small advance, the plant's operator declared Units 5 and 6 — the least troublesome — under control after their nuclear fuel storage pools cooled to safe levels. Progress was made to reconnect two other units to the electric grid and in pumping seawater to cool another reactor and replenish it and a sixth reactor's storage pools.
But the buildup in pressure inside the vessel holding Unit 3's reactor presented some danger, forcing officials to consider venting. The tactic produced explosions of radioactive gas during the early days of the crisis.
"Even if certain things go smoothly, there would be twists and turns," Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano told reporters. "At the moment, we are not so optimistic that there will be a breakthrough."
Nuclear safety officials said one of the options could release a cloud dense with iodine as well as the radioactive elements krypton and xenon.
The plant's operator, Tokyo Electric Power Co., temporarily suspended the plans Sunday after it said the pressure inside the reactor stopped climbing, though staying at a high level.
"It has stabilized," Tokyo Electric manager Hikaru Kuroda told reporters.
Kuroda, who said temperatures inside the reactor reached 572 degrees Fahrenheit (300 degrees Celsius), said the option to release the highly radioactive gas inside is still under consideration if pressure rises.
Growing concerns about radiation add to the overwhelming chain of disasters Japan has struggled with since the 9.0-magnitude quake. It spawned a tsunami that ravaged the northeastern coast, killing 8,450 people, leaving more than 12,900 people missing, and displacing another 452,000, who are living in shelters.
Fuel, food and water remain scarce. The government in recent days acknowledged being caught ill-prepared by an enormous disaster that the prime minister has called the worst crisis since World War II.
Bodies are piling up in some of the devastated communities and badly decomposing even amid chilly rain and snow.
"The recent bodies — we can't show them to the families. The faces have been purple, which means they are starting to decompose," says Shuji Horaguchi, a disaster relief official setting up a center to process the dead in Natori, on the outskirts of the tsunami-flattened city of Sendai. "Some we're finding now have been in the water for a long time, they're not in good shape. Crabs and fish have eaten parts."
Before the disasters, safety drills were seldom if ever practiced and information about radiation exposure rarely given in Futuba, a small town in the shadow of the nuclear plant, said 29-year-old Tsugumi Hasegawa. She is living in a shelter with her 4-year-old daughter and feeling bewildered.
"I still have no idea what the numbers they are giving about radiation levels mean. It's all so confusing. And I wonder if they aren't playing down the dangers to keep us from panicking. I don't know who to trust," said Hasegawa, crammed with 1,400 people into a gymnasium on the outskirts of the city of Fukushima, 80 miles (50 miles) away from the plant.
Another nuclear safety official acknowledged that the government only belatedly realized the need to give potassium iodide to those living within 12 miles (20 kilometers) of the nuclear complex.
The pills help reduce chances of thyroid cancer, one of the diseases that may develop from radiation exposure, by preventing the body from absorbing radioactive iodine. The official, Kazuma Yokota, said the explosion that occurred while venting the plant's Unit 3 reactor a week ago should have triggered the distribution. But the order came only three days later.
"We should have made this decision and announced it sooner," Yokota told reporters at the emergency command center in Fukushima. "It is true that we had not foreseen a disaster of these proportions. We had not practiced or trained for something this bad. We must admit that we were not fully prepared."
The higher reactor pressure may have been caused by a tactic meant to reduce temperatures — the pumping of seawater into the vessel, said Kuroda, the Tokyo Electric manager.
Using seawater to cool the reactors and storage pools was a desperate measure adopted early last week; Unit 4's pool was sprayed again Sunday and a system to inject water into Unit 2's reactor was repaired. Experts have said for days that seawater would inevitably corrode and ruin the reactors and other finely milled machine parts, effectively turning the plant into scrap.
Edano, the government spokesman, recognized the inevitable Sunday: "It is obviously clear that Fukushima Dai-ichi in no way will be in a condition to be restarted."
Contamination of food and water compounds the government's difficulties, heightening the broader public's sense of dread about safety. Consumers in markets snapped up bottled water, shunned spinach from Ibaraki — the prefecture where the tainted spinach was found — and overall expressed concern about food safety.
Experts have said the amounts of iodine detected in milk, spinach and water pose no discernible risks to public health unless consumed in enormous quantities over a long time. Iodine breaks down quickly, after eight days, minimizing its harmfulness, unlike other radioactive isotopes such as cesium-137 or uranium-238, which remain in the environment for decades or longer.
High levels of iodine are linked to thyroid cancer, one of the least deadly cancers if treated. Cesium is a longer-lasting element that affects the whole body and raises cancer risk.
Rain forecast for the Fukushima area also could further localize the contamination, bringing the radiation to the ground closer to the plant.
Edano tried to reassure the public for a second day in a row. "If you eat it once, or twice, or even for several days, it's not just that it's not an immediate threat to health, it's that even in the future it is not a risk," Edano said. "Experts say there is no threat to human health."
No contamination has been reported in Japan's main food export — seafood — worth about $1.6 billion a year and less than 0.3 percent of its total exports.
Amid the anxiety, there were moments of joy on Sunday. An 80-year-old woman and her teenage grandson were rescued from their flattened two-story house after nine days, when the teen pulled himself to the roof and shouted to police for help.
Other survivors enjoyed smaller victories. Kiyoshi Hiratsuka and his family managed to pull his beloved Harley Davidson motorcycle from the rubble in their hometown of Onagawa.
"I almost gave up the search but it happened that I found it," the 37-year-old mechanic said. "I know that the motorbike would not work anymore, but I want to keep it as a memorial."
Sounds great, except I'm not sure that's the future I want. I don't have children, I cannot have children, and will never have children. I need a valid reason for me to care about your children (speaking figuratively of course).
My main concern is my wife and I staying happy, and keeping our heads above water until we are dead and in the ground. Your plan sounds like we will suffer for the next 40+ years so that people we don't care about can be happy later on. I'm greedy, I want me to be happy.
I dare you, I DOUBLE-DOG dare you to tell Don (Maryjane) that, about the deficit, S.S. or ANYTHING else where the buck and/or responsability does not stop with THIS generation. I DARE you.
But let me get the popcorn first.
P.S. I suspect I am very much in the same boat you are, and like you, I find it very hard to think so magnanimously as Maryjane about the future, while struggling to stay afloat in the present. His point of "somebody sometime has to do it" does not escape me, but I imagine I am like every generation before me. Pass it on, they'll be better off & prepared to figure it out.
But back to my dare.............
------------------ And they said one to another, "Behold, for here comes the dreamer. Come now, let us slay him and we shall see what then will become of his dreams." ~ Genesis 37: 19-20
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 03-20-2011).]
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06:26 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Positive spin is all it is. Cesium was detected in atmosphere around fukushima. Cesium that has a 30 year half life and emits gamma radiation, I know the levels are extremely low, but Cesium indicates containment breach, this isn't from radioactive gas. Then we have cows with contaminated milk, and contaminated spinach. Restrictions put on food in fukushima, and radioactive ground water. Yes I know the levels are low. Reactor 3 has a miraculous core temp drop WITHOUT proper cooling. In chernobyl they kept trying to cool the reactor, instead of facing the fact the rods were no longer in it.
Not bothering putting up sources, all of this stuff has been all over the news, google it if you doubt it.
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10:52 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Oh and they got reactors 5-6 back under control, but those only had boiling pools and no explosions, they were the least of the immediate problems and I figured those two would be saved. Reactors 1-4 are what worried me and still do. No I don't think California will glow in the dark, but I am concerned for Fukushima.
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10:54 PM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Anyone else here wondering how much and how long it will take to completely clean up this mess? I'm betting at least 500 million but wouldn't be surprised if the costs including storage of the high-level waste and debris will easily top a couple billion dollars. Hopefully that's fully paid for by TEPCO and their ratepayers.
------------------ Bring back civility and decorum!
It's possible to understand someone's point of view without accepting it. It's possible to disagree with someone without being rude and nasty about it. Sure it's hard, but nothing worth doing is ever easy, is it?
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11:41 AM
dennis_6 Member
Posts: 7196 From: between here and there Registered: Aug 2001
Smoke rising from two of the reactors in the troubled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant in Japan caused alarm and abruptly halted efforts to restore power to reactors Monday afternoon.
Workers from the Tokyo Electric Power Company were evacuated midafternoon after dark-colored smoke was seen rising from reactor No. 3 above a pool storing spent nuclear rods, Kyodo News Agency reported. A few hours later, a white plume was also seen rising through a crack in the roof of the building containing reactor No. 2, according to reports.
The smoke had stopped by evening. Power company officials told local reporters that the plume from reactor No. 2 appeared to be steam.
The cause of the plumes was unknown, but they did not appear to be associated with a radiation spike.
Photos: Unrelenting crisis grips Japan
Still, officials said the interruption would delay the work to restore power to the cooling systems at the plant by a day. The smoke also caused fire officials to halt the spraying of water onto the reactors. The power company and government officials said the efforts to connect the reactors to a power source and cool them would likely resume Tuesday, according to Kyodo News Agency.
The activity came on a day when the executive director of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Bill Borchardt, said that the agency's staff in Japan reported that the three reactors that had shut down following the magnitude 9.0 Tohoku earthquake 10 days ago probably had suffered some core damage but did not appear to be leaking significant quantities of radiation.
"I say optimistically that things appear to be on the verge of stabilizing," Borchardt said.
Local officials have been struggling to restore power to the reactors to restore cooling systems and lower reactor temperatures. Power has been restored to some of the plant's six reactors, while others remain without electricity.
Reactors Nos. 2 and 3 have been of particular concern. The containment vessel at reactor No. 2 is thought to be cracked, while reactor No. 3 is powered by a mixed oxide fuel that contains significant quantities of highly carcinogenic plutonium.
Engineers from Tokyo Electric Power Co., which owns the plant 140 miles north of Tokyo, have brought a new power line from the nation's electrical grid to the site and connected it to the reactor buildings. But only the cooling pumps in reactor buildings 5 and 6, which have only spent fuel pools, have been energized. The pumps have brought water temperatures in the cooling pools down to normal levels.
Company officials said damaged electrical parts in the other buildings have made it difficult to restore power in those units. The company is now bringing in replacement parts in an effort to restore power and bring cooling pumps in the other reactors back on line.
Anyone else here wondering how much and how long it will take to completely clean up this mess? I'm betting at least 500 million but wouldn't be surprised if the costs including storage of the high-level waste and debris will easily top a couple billion dollars. Hopefully that's fully paid for by TEPCO and their ratepayers.
How long is it gonna take to clean up after Katrina? And that was not nuclear. How long is it gonna take to clean up after the oilspill? And that is not nuclear.
I think a long time, but what I will say about the Japanese is this: They are industrious and hard workers... I bet they get that cleaned up long before most other countries could.
How long is it gonna take to clean up after Katrina? And that was not nuclear. How long is it gonna take to clean up after the oilspill? And that is not nuclear.
I think a long time, but what I will say about the Japanese is this: They are industrious and hard workers... I bet they get that cleaned up long before most other countries could.
It cost nearly 1 billion dollars to clean up Three Mile Island, it was just one reactor and that was in 1980 dollars. It took 14 years. TMI operators also paid out over 122 million dollars in legal settlements and fines, including a 45,000 fine for falsifying records. Somewhere there is still 100 short tons of radioactive waste that we taxpayers are footing the bill for storage on.
Figure 2.5 billion dollars in today's dollars per reactor, X 4 reactors, that works out to be, what, 10 billion dollars? TEPCO only carries 1.5 billion in insurance so the rest will be picked up by the Japanese government. Then there's the liability costs for contaminated farmland production such as spinach and milk, loss of use of property because of radiological evacuations, etc. Figure with settlements, total cleanup costs, remediation, etc, maybe 15 billion dollars? With a B. Somebody's paying that, and it's certainly not the people selling or buying the electricity that came from those reactors.
The comparison to Katrina was specious. The oil spill is more comparable in a very different way, except that the taxpayers will wind up paying for long-term consequences of that man-made disaster.
Speaking of spinach and milk, now many nuclear proponents and engineers wouldn't have a problem feeding that Japanese spinach and milk to their children?
That's what I thought...
------------------ Bring back civility and decorum!
It's possible to understand someone's point of view without accepting it. It's possible to disagree with someone without being rude and nasty about it. Sure it's hard, but nothing worth doing is ever easy, is it?
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04:37 PM
kwagner Member
Posts: 4258 From: Pittsburgh, PA Registered: Apr 2005
Power cable connected to reactor / Link may allow control room use
The Daily Yomiuri
In an effort to restore power at the crippled No. 2 reactor of Fukushima No. 1 nuclear power plant, Tokyo Electric Power Co. has successfully connected a power cable with the reactor, raising hope the utility will be able to activate the central control room.
TEPCO was working Sunday to electrify the central control room using the power supplied to the No. 2 reactor.
Work to restore electricity at the Fukushima nuclear power plant is under way in three separate reactor groups--Nos. 1 and 2; Nos. 3 and 4; and Nos. 5 and 6. The highest priority was placed on the No. 2 reactor, whose reactor containment vessel is feared to have been damaged in the aftermath of the magnitude-9.0 quake that hit the Tohoku region on March 11.
Among the Nos. 1 to 4 reactors, the No. 2 reactor reportedly suffered the least quake and tsunami damage to its pumps and electrical equipment, making TEPCO officials hopeful that the equipment will start functioning once electricity is supplied.
TEPCO set up a temporary power switchboard on a vehicle near the No. 1 reactor Friday, and connected the devices with a cable to the No. 2 reactor's power switchboard-cum-transformer at the turbine building.
===
Water-spraying continues
Meanwhile, Self-Defense Forces personnel and a special squad of the Tokyo Fire Department continued spraying water on troubled reactors in an effort to avert further disaster.
On Sunday morning, SDF personnel sprayed water on the No. 4 reactor for the first time, following a similar operation on the No. 3 reactor that lasted until early Sunday.
The SDF mission started at about 8:20 a.m. and ended 9:40 a.m., having sprayed about 82 tons of water using 10 SDF fire trucks and one fire truck TEPCO borrowed from U.S. forces, Tokyo Electric Power Co. said.
It is feared rising water temperature in the temporary storage pool at the No. 4 reactor will lower the water level in the pool and expose fuel rods, resulting in the leakage of radioactive material into the air.
The radiation level in the plant vicinity declined after the Tokyo Fire Department sprayed water on the No. 3 reactor on Saturday and Sunday.
Radiation levels at a location about 500 meters from the No. 1 reactor went down from 3,443 microsieverts per hour as of 2 p.m. Saturday to 2,758 microsieverts as of 3:40 a.m. Sunday, according to officials.
The water-spraying operation on the No. 4 reactor by the Tokyo Fire Department was to resume Sunday night.
The SDF and firefighters from across the nation, including the Osaka Municipal Fire Department, are expected to continue their water-spraying mission.
At the No. 3 reactor, on which Tokyo firefighters sprayed water from 2:05 p.m. Saturday until 3:40 a.m. Sunday, pressure within the reactor containment vessel started rising again, forcing TEPCO officials to consider releasing steam in the vessel to lower the pressure, TEPCO said.
Pressure in the containment vessel went up from about 2.8 atmospheres at 1:10 a.m. to 3.4 atmospheres at 4:30 a.m.
However, the pressure in the containment vessel stabilized as of noon. TEPCO officials continued to closely monitor changes in pressure inside the vessel for the time being.
At the Nos. 5 and 6 reactors, TEPCO successfully activated heat exchangers in temporary storage pools for spent nuclear fuel rods using emergency diesel power generators, including one that was repaired Saturday, making it possible to significantly lower water temperature in the storage pools.
Water temperatures in storage pools in the Nos. 5 and 6 reactors were 37.1 C and 41.0 C, respectively, as of 7 a.m., and were within or near the target temperature range of 40 C or below, TEPCO officials said.
TEPCO said the number of its workers whose radiation exposure exceeded 100 sieverts increased to seven from six as of 5 a.m. Sunday. The government had raised the upper limit of the radiation exposure for workers at the Fukushima plant from the ordinary 100 sieverts to 250 sieverts as an exceptional measure.
Meanwhile, TEPCO was considering using a German-made high-pressure pump capable of spraying water on a distant target with a boom longer than 50 meters, according to TEPCO sources. The pump is used to pour concrete at construction sites. (Mar. 21, 2011)
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07:52 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
I love that because this is a disaster the limit for radiation exposure is now higher, just because of the situation.
Can someone with a better understanding than me (anybody) please write a cliff notes version real quick? Just a quick breakdown of what has happened up to this point.
I love that because this is a disaster the limit for radiation exposure is now higher, just because of the situation.
Can someone with a better understanding than me (anybody) please write a cliff notes version real quick? Just a quick breakdown of what has happened up to this point.
Brad
There's a wiki on it, updated daily or more often:
------------------ Bring back civility and decorum!
It's possible to understand someone's point of view without accepting it. It's possible to disagree with someone without being rude and nasty about it. Sure it's hard, but nothing worth doing is ever easy, is it?
Your chart omits the radiation levels at the plant for example 400 msV/h at plant after explosions mar 15 as an example. Source "After the explosions and fire, radiation dosages of up to 400 millisieverts per hour were recorded between reactors three and four at the Fukushima Daiichi site, about 250km north-east of Tokyo." http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/w...sia-pacific-12749444
Remember radiation exposure adds up, meaning at 250 msv/h for 2 hours you have been exposed to 500 msv and so forth.
[This message has been edited by dennis_6 (edited 03-22-2011).]
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02:12 PM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Is radiation different from any other kind of poisoning? I mean it may be ok to have a gallon of alcohol over a year but not in an hour. So getting a years worth of radiation in one hour would be pretty bad no? I hear people saying there is x amount of sieverts but is that per hour or just in the air or what?
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02:15 PM
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9708 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
Your chart omits the radiation levels at the plant for example 400 msV/h at plant after explosions mar 15 as an example. Source After the explosions and fire, radiation dosages of up to 400 millisieverts per hour were recorded between reactors three and four at the Fukushima Daiichi site, about 250km north-east of Tokyo.
Remember radiation exposure adds up, meaning at 250 msv/h for 2 hours you have been exposed to 500 msv and so forth.
The chart is just a generic referrence. It is not meant to be specific to this disaster. If you look at the chart, 500 mSv is enough to cause radiation poisoning and since it is over 100 mSv it has been known to cause cancer.
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02:26 PM
PFF
System Bot
Doug85GT Member
Posts: 9708 From: Sacramento CA USA Registered: May 2003
Is radiation different from any other kind of poisoning? I mean it may be ok to have a gallon of alcohol over a year but not in an hour. So getting a years worth of radiation in one hour would be pretty bad no? I hear people saying there is x amount of sieverts but is that per hour or just in the air or what?
Radiation is similar in that the body does repair the damage over time. Radiation attacks the entire body on a cellular level. It damages DNA, protiens, and the various parts of the cell. Our cells have built in repair mechanisms but they take time to work. This is why radiation causes cancer and birth defects.
Is radiation different from any other kind of poisoning? I mean it may be ok to have a gallon of alcohol over a year but not in an hour. So getting a years worth of radiation in one hour would be pretty bad no? I hear people saying there is x amount of sieverts but is that per hour or just in the air or what?
Usually talking about per hour, and thats where the news kinda dances around it. They also tend to use the term "No immediate threat". However if you exceed the yearly safe does in say 6 months you may be at risk of health problems. They are being pretty tight lipped and I am not expecting widespread problems unless this gets much worse. That said, I think Fukushima may not be safe for a while.
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03:39 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
Usually talking about per hour, and thats where the news kinda dances around it. They also tend to use the term "No immediate threat". However if you exceed the yearly safe does in say 6 months you may be at risk of health problems. They are being pretty tight lipped and I am not expecting widespread problems unless this gets much worse. That said, I think Fukushima may not be safe for a while.
That's pretty much what the Russians told this lady.
Radioactive iodine found in tap water, levels are low but still considered double what's acceptable for children under one year old, so parents advised to use bottled water instead of tap water for children.
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11:00 AM
Scottzilla79 Member
Posts: 2573 From: Chicago, IL Registered: Oct 2009
Interesting article carnut, Every thing i hear about the true effects of Chernobyl is different. It does give me an idea though. In case of accident the executives should be up front cleaning up not sobbing in front of a tv camera.
Cleanup and remediation costs associated with the Japanese nuclear disaster could top 18 billion dollars, most or all of which will probably be paid for by Japanese taxpayers rather than by the owners and ratepayers. By comparison, Chernobyl costs are estimated to exceed 235 billion dollars (and still climbing) with millions of acres of prime farm and forest land permanently off limits.
Why the industry needs so many subsidies in the form of taxpayer-funded liability, bailouts, government-funded waste storage, etc, just to survive is confusing to me in these times of austerity budgets and belt-tightening. They should pay their own way, they and their ratepayers.
The people had only a few hours to leave, and they weren't allowed to take their dogs or cats with them. The radiation stays in animals' fur and they can't be cleaned, so they had to be abandoned. That's why people were crying when they left. All the animals left behind in the houses were like dried-out mummies. But we found one dog that was still alive.
Where did you find the dog and how did he survive?
We moved into a former kindergarten to use as a laboratory and we found her lying in one of the children's cots there. Her legs were all burned from the radiation and she was half blind. Her eyes were all clouded from the radiation. She was slowly dying.
Were you able to rescue her?
No. Right after we moved in, she disappeared. And this is the amazing part. A month later we found her in the children's ward of the (abandoned) hospital. She was dead. She was lying in a child's bed, the same size bed we found her in the kindergarten. Later we found out that she loved children very much and was always around them.
And this:
Why did you go back to Chernobyl after getting a thyroid tumor?
Right around the time of my operation, the government passed a law saying the liquidators had to work for exactly 4 1/2 years to get our pension and retire. If you left even one day early, you would not get any benefits.
Really? That seems beyond cruel. It's why the nuclear industry is dangerous. They want to deny the dangers. They kept changing the law about what benefits we'd get because if they admitted how much we were affected, it would look bad for the industry. Now we hardly get any benefits.
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11:31 AM
Rallaster Member
Posts: 9105 From: Indy southside, IN Registered: Jul 2009
Why the industry needs so many subsidies in the form of taxpayer-funded liability, bailouts, government-funded waste storage, etc, just to survive is confusing to me in these times of austerity budgets and belt-tightening. They should pay their own way, they and their ratepayers.
While I agree, how are utility companies and rate payers expected to pay for the regulatory oversite paperwork and hoop jumping? My guess is that at least half of subsidies go right back to the gov't in the form of fees for permits and other regulatory BS.
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11:43 AM
PFF
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phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Alongside radiation-induced deaths and diseases, the report labels the mental health impact of Chernobyl as “the largest public health problem created by the accident” and partially attributes this damaging psychological impact to a lack of accurate information. These problems manifest as negative self-assessments of health, belief in a shortened life expectancy, lack of initiative, and dependency on assistance from the state.
While I agree, how are utility companies and rate payers expected to pay for the regulatory oversite paperwork and hoop jumping? My guess is that at least half of subsidies go right back to the gov't in the form of fees for permits and other regulatory BS.
I doubt that the industry pays tens of billions of dollars for permits and fees and hoop jumping. And given the consequences of things going wrong (TMI, Chernobyl, Japan, Kyshtym, etc.) it stands to reason the nuclear industry needs strong regulatory oversight. Half? Maybe 0.001% if even that.
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01:09 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
Interesting article carnut, Every thing i hear about the true effects of Chernobyl is different. It does give me an idea though. In case of accident the executives should be up front cleaning up not sobbing in front of a tv camera.
Yep, I agree! "If it's so safe come and show me how to clean this up!"
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08:05 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
Originally posted by JazzMan: Why the industry needs so many subsidies in the form of taxpayer-funded liability, bailouts, government-funded waste storage, etc, just to survive is confusing to me in these times of austerity budgets and belt-tightening. They should pay their own way, they and their ratepayers.
An article that I read recently, said that there are no private investors in nuclear power in this country. In other words, nuclear power in this country is 100% subsidized by the tax-payers. Just another instance of corporate welfare.
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08:12 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
An article that I read recently, said that there are no private investors in nuclear power in this country. In other words, nuclear power in this country is 100% subsidized by the tax-payers. Just another instance of corporate welfare.
That is incorrect.
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09:58 PM
phonedawgz Member
Posts: 17091 From: Green Bay, WI USA Registered: Dec 2009
Anything, even radiation, can be cleaned up. It's not easy or quick and certainly not inexpensive, but it's certainly doable.
Grid the area, map it , scan it, and start digging it up. Concrete gets wet cut. Steel gets washed and washed again. If it can't be cleaned, and it only takes one tiny tiny particle to make it "hot", it gets cut up small enough to be encapsulated. Process it. Earth and solulbles gets slurried. I've injected many thousands of barrels of radioactive waste down the backside of abandoned oilwells--marked and recorded forever as containing radiative waste.. Some of it came from the petrochemical industry, some from the medical industry. Last thing in the hole, encapsulated in pipe, was our cleanup water and contaminated hazmat suits. Then scan the entire site again to meet the inspector's specs.
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11:37 PM
Mar 25th, 2011
rinselberg Member
Posts: 16118 From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA) Registered: Mar 2010
Possible core breach halts Japan nuke plant work Officials say core at heart of battered Unit 3 reactor "may have been damaged"; Work stops for radiation checks
(AP) TOKYO - Japanese nuclear safety officials said Friday that they suspect that the reactor core at one unit of the troubled Fukushima Dai-ichi nuclear power plant may have breached, raising the possibility of more severe contamination to the environment.
"It is possible that somewhere at the reactor may have been damaged," said Hidehiko Nishiyama, a spokesman for the nuclear safety agency. But he added that "our data suggest the reactor retains certain containment functions," implying that the damage may have occurred in Unit 3's reactor core but that it was limited.
Officials say the damage could instead have happened in other equipment, including piping or the spent fuel pool.
------------------ Dr. Ian Malcolm: Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should. (Jurassic Park)
