quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Either you believe his claim that he was a Christian and agree with it or you don't. There is no middle ground here. Since YOU are the one that brought it up as a way to discount my humorous pic, then it is you who are agreeing with Hitler. I rest my case.

No I don't have any reason to agree or disagree with a statement someone made about THEIR OWN BELIEFS. I don't go around challenging every statement people make. The guy publicly claimed he followed a certain religious doctrine. Your argument is that you don't believe him, good for you. That doesn't make his claim go away and it doesn't allow you to say he had a different belief (unless you know for sure in which case please enlighten us). Even if the guy lied, that makes him default to being an atheist? Man you really need therapy. Your pic wasn't humorous, it was ignorant, just as you are being now. Do you have any proof of what you're claiming? I'm willing to bet you don't which means we're on pretty much equal footing here, only I've already said that since neither of us were there we don't know for sure.

This started out as a conversation about whether or not people had the right to ask that freedom of religion be equal and that they not be forced to be surrounded by others' beliefs. It seemed to be going ok until you decided to make completely unfounded claims about atheists, which was quickly called out. Now you're WAY off the deep end grasping at straws to justify your own little version of fairy tale theater. No one knows what anyone secretly believes. All we have to go on is what people say AND what they do. If you think what people say about themselves should be disregarded, then I call bs on your faith in your religion as your actions don't match the doctrine of your religion.

The more you respond, the worse you look man. Seriously, this isn't even fun anymore, you're being THAT ridiculous. I'm actually starting to be concerned for you.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 04-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Hitler HIMSELF claimed to be a Christian while he was seeking power. Look it up.

He and Obama have more in common than I thought.

..there are many demagogues in all societies,Hitler & Obumbles are 2 examples,,remember obumbles attended a HATE AMERICA CHURCH for 20 years ,,then dropped it when he could become president,now he attends no church while in Africa Obumbles praise of some of our Moslem enemies gave us the Moslem Disaster,s of the past year
..Obumbles & his hate american wife were on tape with hate america speech,,unfortunately only the hate america Tape of Obumbles slithering skank wife survived,, Only the cover up by our left wing press & media allowed this inept america hating POS to be president...Obomunism
..There is a war against Christianity by the queers, atheist,democrats ,agnostics,moslems all working together to kill freedom, you atheist devil worshipping homosexual scum better hope the christians don,t lose, you will loudly sing a different tune!! I know you,you would bow & scrape every day,your lips brown from kissing the mullahs bung hole..
the crosses are just another example for people to show the hate they have for thier forefathers & founders of America
the forefathers would shame you ,There would be NO america if the country had been mostly the atheist devilworshippers & queers & democrats who now do not care for America ,We are watching the destruction of America, much worse is comming
Spain is next get out there ,buy a foreign car OH! you do not understand?? you will
never forget loser Squeeks? UHLANSTAN is the only forum member sanction & endorsed by both Satan & Jesus.
hated by the busybody speech,punctuation police

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 04-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Doug85GT: Explain this then, how can Hitler be a Christian when he issued a decree abolishing all religions other than Nazism with himself as the Messiah? Last time I checked, being a Christian means you believe that Christ is the Messiah.

First time I ever heard that. Large parts of the christian churches in Germany at the time aligned themselves with the dictatorship just fine.

In any case, no matter what Hitler may have said in public, I personally think that he didn't believe in anything other than himself and his delusions of grandeur. Hard to conclusively prove that, though...

People don't put up crosses for the benefit of the departed, they put them up for their own benefit. Does anyone think any of the men laying in the cemetery give a crap what is erected at their graves? Jewish, Buddhist, agnostic or Christian, they aren't giving a flying **** what symbols are placed at their graves. The only people who care are the living, and many of them seem to be so busy being pissy about every little thing they can find to be pissy about, they can't see past their own stupidity to recognize it's not about them.

quote Originally posted by Formula88: It becomes like a religion when you not only practice abstinence, but you preach it to others and try to convert them to your belief system that abstinence is the right course of action.

Mmmmh, that reminds me of some people and it's not atheists...

To quote from the video I had posted earlier in this thread: "You don't get to put your unreason up on the same shelf as my reason."

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Yeah, the "first public Mormon de-baptising" is hysterical, isn't it? Bill Maher is just awesome!

I first started watching him when he got in so much trouble for disagreeing with those who said that the 911 terrorists were cowards. I'm in no way defending the terrorists, but a man who lays down his life is not a "coward". I'm surprised that he has joined the media bias about Trayvon. I don't know what happened there and we may never know, but the media still prints the old pictures of a young Trayvon and the old booking pictures of Zimmerman. We now know that Trayvon was 6' 3" and 170 lbs. Not a 140 lb kid and Zimmerman is not a 250 lb man, but instead a 5' 8" 185 lb man. Not that it proves anything in the case, but it is blatantly slanting of the news. Plus the editing of the "He looks black" statement. The media has stirred up as much emotion as possible in this case and Bill has joined them. I give him the benefit of the doubt and I think that he believes what he is saying, but I don't see how any open minded person can come down on either side at this point. Please don't think that I believe Trayvon deserved to die.

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: ..there are many demagogues in all societies,Hitler & Obumbles are 2 examples,,remember obumbles attended a HATE AMERICA CHURCH for 20 years ,,then dropped it when he could become president,now he attends no church while in Africa Obumbles praise of some of our Moslem enemies gave us the Moslem Disaster,s of the past year ..Obumbles & his hate american wife were on tape with hate america speech,,unfortunately only the hate america Tape of Obumbles slithering skank wife survived,, Only the cover up by our left wing press & media allowed this inept america hating POS to be president...Obomunism ..There is a war against Christianity by the queers, atheist,democrats ,agnostics,moslems all working together to kill freedom, you atheist devil worshipping homosexual scum better hope the christians don,t lose, you will loudly sing a different tune!! I know you,you would bow & scrape every day,your lips brown from kissing the mullahs bung hole.. the crosses are just another example for people to show the hate they have for thier forefathers & founders of America the forefathers would shame you ,There would be NO america if the country had been mostly the atheist devilworshippers & queers & democrats who now do not care for America ,We are watching the destruction of America, much worse is comming Spain is next get out there ,buy a foreign car OH! you do not understand?? you will never forget loser Squeeks? UHLANSTAN is the only forum member sanction & endorsed by both Satan & Jesus. hated by the busybody speech,punctuation police

Man, I know there's something unbalanced about you, and you probably can't help it, but this is pushing it. You should seriously have a friend help you edit your posts to make sure you're not crossing over into a territory you can't get back from. I'm not going to sit here and bash on you, but imbalance or not, you should seek help because publicly spreading that kind of vitrol and hatred isn't going to do anything but put you in bad positions in life.

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: u atheist devil worshipping homosexual scum atheist devilworshippers

I didn't quite get the rest of that post (not tried real hard either) but THAT part is funny right there!

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: UHLANSTAN is the only forum member sanction & endorsed by both Satan & Jesus

And he must know what he's talking about because he's at the source!

[This message has been edited by yellowstone (edited 04-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Silentassassin185: I don't see why they should have to take it down. Just a small snippet from the article. Thoughts? Opinion?

Dude, the cross origins are pagan. It was around long before so-called religion adopted it. As for the individual placing it on there-you already have cemetaries for that.

I may regret bringing this back up:

quote Originally posted by Wichita: ... Prior to World War II Hitler had promoted "positive Christianity", a Christian movement which purged Christianity of its Jewish elements and instilled it with Nazi philosophy.[3] Read and learn. Credible sources at your disposal in the bibliography. Hilter believed in, was and publicly expressed he was a Christian and used his Christian beliefs as a justification for his Nazi reign. But this is all beside the point because the fact that Hilter was a Christian doesn't matter to the thread subject at hand. I just wanted to correct your misconception about Hilter.

So, if I take orange juice and concentrate it (take the water out), then add arsenic in place of the water, then it is still orange juice?

Christianity makes absolutely no sense without a Jewish foundation. If it, in it's true form, is foolishness to the world at large, then without it's Jewish core, it would make no sense to Christians, either. Further explanation would take another thread, and a long one at that. People spend years at study to discover these things.

Stan's rant (and I mean no disrespect by that. Rants, in themselves, are neither good nor evil) has its merits, but what I would say to him is that, if he has read the Bible, he knows that these things must come to pass. The world will get worse. Much worse, I believe, and not in the distant future, either. Certain of my friends here on the Forum will be quite satisfied with the way things become, and for this, I hope for two things; 1) that Christians, true Christians, continue to live out the Word. It will show them (hopefully, us) in stark contrast to the rest of society - and 2) because of what will come, that I'm around to guide some of my friends that may reconsider the society that they once wished for.

Yellowstone, what kind of cookie am I? Chocolate chip, I hope. And Maher doesn't get to put his unreason next to anything of mine.

madcurl, yes, the Cross predated Christianity. It was necessary for it to become the symbol of the worst possible death sentence imposed on the most vile of criminals. It was the death that Jesus of Nazareth didn't deserve, and thus, it has become a symbol of One Live, given for all. Accept it or not, it is now what it has become.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: I may regret bringing this back up: So, if I take orange juice and concentrate it (take the water out), then add arsenic in place of the water, then it is still orange juice? Christianity makes absolutely no sense without a Jewish foundation. If it, in it's true form, is foolishness to the world at large, then without it's Jewish core, it would make no sense to Christians, either. Further explanation would take another thread, and a long one at that. People spend years at study to discover these things. Stan's rant (and I mean no disrespect by that. Rants, in themselves, are neither good nor evil) has its merits, but what I would say to him is that, if he has read the Bible, he knows that these things must come to pass. The world will get worse. Much worse, I believe, and not in the distant future, either. Certain of my friends here on the Forum will be quite satisfied with the way things become, and for this, I hope for two things; 1) that Christians, true Christians, continue to live out the Word. It will show them (hopefully, us) in stark contrast to the rest of society - and 2) because of what will come, that I'm around to guide some of my friends that may reconsider the society that they once wished for. Yellowstone, what kind of cookie am I? Chocolate chip, I hope. And Maher doesn't get to put his unreason next to anything of mine. madcurl, yes, the Cross predated Christianity. It was necessary for it to become the symbol of the worst possible death sentence imposed on the most vile of criminals. It was the death that Jesus of Nazareth didn't deserve, and thus, it has become a symbol of One Live, given for all. Accept it or not, it is now what it has become.

You do know that the Holy Roman Empire ruled Christianity for centuries until the Protestant Reformation when Martin Luther underwent the Diet of Worms for posting his ninety-five thesis. Basically Christianity changes with the times.

Your version of Christianity and Hitler's version doesn't matter, so long as the people believe in Jesus as the Son of God. How you go about your life, how you worship, what you consider good and bad, it doesn't matter. Hitler believed in Christianity and believed Jesus was a God. His negative views on Jews is just a reflection of what many Christians already believe. That Jews, although recognize with ties to Christianity (Actually Christianity is just a spin-off cult version of Judaism anyways), that Jews will be sent to hell, along with all other people who don't believe that Jesus was the Son of God.

So why not exterminate the soulless people who are condemned to hell. Make that heaven on earth happen where EVERYBODY is a Christian. That is what many Christians want and that was Hitler's goal as well.

Your arsenic in orange juice is one for you. Because you call yourself a Christian, yet if you were ever hurt you would seek a help of a medical professional to come and heal you. A true believing Christian would pray for health and have God do it as a miracle. But since you don't believe in that, you aren't a real Christian, but an arsenic orange juice one that you claim Hitler is.

As I will say again, Hitler has the same mindset that many Christians do. He was just able to fully implement his thoughts.

[This message has been edited by Wichita (edited 04-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: madcurl, yes, the Cross predated Christianity. It was necessary for it to become the symbol of the worst possible death sentence imposed on the most vile of criminals. It was the death that Jesus of Nazareth didn't deserve, and thus, it has become a symbol of One Live, given for all. Accept it or not, it is now what it has become.

True. His death, but not the pagan idol to which people now have adopted and now worship. The Bible clearly states that idol worshiping has no place in pure worship past or present. Therefore the marine who erected it is actually promoting idolatry-plain and simple (from a Biblical stand point).

CRAPOLA, Hitler was a democrat,,the atheist, queers & democrats & thier allies are destroying our society,Morals are in the porta potty, young people think nothing of shoplifting if they would not be caught,, this is brought on by the filthy atheist scum the low life queers who want to marry man & man & raise a turd baby We are now taking giant steps to perversion & sickness thanks to atheist slitherers ..So many reject the founding fathers beleave in America,You can laugh, I want you to,,but the hand of god was on the founding of America ,,NOW the scum devilworshippers & Atheist slime slitherers
have come to the forefront,, THERE IS ONLY GOOD & EVIL,,no atheist is good ,no devil worshipper is good, no matter what you say ..It is to late to turn America around , the scum slithering atheist know the majority of christians
are not like me ,,they will forgive & forget,look the other way.One day the people who put up the crosses will not turn the other cheek,and those Marines & Soldiers will hunt the scum atheist down,of course most will deny then ,,I have seen the scum atheist liars in Angola , many with thier heads halve blown off,, good riddance .
the atheist always helped the commies ,cubans & russians,, just like the atheist here will do when thier traitor chance comes ,it is thier natural way!! sell us out part way now ,,all the way at the first chance,,I protected the atheist ,I found out the hard way!! I rejoiced at thier cruel violent death.

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 04-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: CRAPOLA, the atheist, queers & democrats & thier allies are destroying our society,Morals are in the porta potty, young people think nothing of shoplifting if they would not be caught,, this is brought on by the filthy atheist scum the low life queers who want to marry man & man & raise a turd baby We are now taking giant steps to perversion & sickness thanks to atheist slitherers ..So many reject the founding fathers beleave in America,You can laugh, I want you to,,but the hand of god was on the founding of America ,,NOW the scum devilworshippers & Atheist slime slitherers have come to the forefront,, THERE IS ONLY GOOD & EVIL,,no atheist is good ,no devil worshipper is good, no matter what you say ..It is to late to turn America around , the scum slithering atheist know the majority of christians are not like me ,,they will forgive & forget,look the other way.One day the people who put up the crosses will not turn the other cheek,and those Marines & Soldiers will hunt the scum atheist down,of course most will deny then ,,I have seen the scum atheist liars in Angola , many with thier heads halve blown off,, good riddance . the atheist always helped the commies ,cubans & russians,, just like the atheist here will do when thier traitor chance comes ,it is thier natural way!! sell us out part way now ,,all the way at the first chance,,I found out the hard way!!

Dude, and you belong to the Central FLoridia Fiero''s Club that meet twice a month, right? Do you sit in the back or do all of the talking at those meetings?

..My calm version, who do you think is destroying America as you watch?/ who craps & stands on the flag ?who insults the founding fathers ?? who wants to change the constitution?? who wants men to marry men??who spit on our troops??WHO KILLS BABIES??
I never expect the progressive ,socialist, marxist, democrats to like me ,I hate thier anti American guts
we ONLY meet once a month


GOD,GUNS GUTS & FIERO,S MADE AMERICA GREAT

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 04-14-2012).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Mmmmh, that reminds me of some people and it's not atheists... To quote from the video I had posted earlier in this thread: "You don't get to put your unreason up on the same shelf as my reason."

Did that video create this motivator poster too?

quote Originally posted by madcurl: True. His death, but not the pagan idol to which people now have adopted and now worship. The Bible clearly states that idol worshiping has no place in pure worship past or present. Therefore the marine who erected it is actually promoting idolatry-plain and simple (from a Biblical stand point).

Nope.

idolatry: the religious worship of idols.

Nobody worships the cross. The cross is merely a symbol to Christians of Jesus' death and resurrection.
Idolatry would be praying to the cross itself.

You don't have to believe the Bible, but a dictionary could really prove beneficial.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: I may regret bringing this back up: So, if I take orange juice and concentrate it (take the water out), then add arsenic in place of the water, then it is still orange juice? Christianity makes absolutely no sense without a Jewish foundation. If it, in it's true form, is foolishness to the world at large, then without it's Jewish core, it would make no sense to Christians, either. Further explanation would take another thread, and a long one at that. People spend years at study to discover these things. Stan's rant (and I mean no disrespect by that. Rants, in themselves, are neither good nor evil) has its merits, but what I would say to him is that, if he has read the Bible, he knows that these things must come to pass. The world will get worse. Much worse, I believe, and not in the distant future, either. Certain of my friends here on the Forum will be quite satisfied with the way things become, and for this, I hope for two things; 1) that Christians, true Christians, continue to live out the Word.

DOGMA is a danger to peace and freedom
and end times BS is about the worse

basically you are saying there is no free will
we are doomed but it is all god's plan
so no point in even trying to limit or prevent the disaster
as that would be against the will of god

man that is really sick and a sorry way to live
and only a step away from passing out the koolaid like jim jones
or locking the kids in while burning the building waco-wacko stile
yes just a small step once the small mind decides they are part of gods plan
from waiting and hoping for the end-times to trying to hurry them up

sorry but no god no god's plan no eazy outs
but clearly those beliefs are EVIL

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Nope. idolatry: the religious worship of idols. Nobody worships the cross. The cross is merely a symbol to Christians of Jesus' death and resurrection. Idolatry would be praying to the cross itself. You don't have to believe the Bible, but a dictionary could really prove beneficial.

Sorry Charlie, your wrong. Even a vampire knows that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Tau


Nowhere in the Bible you'll find where the acceptance of any false gods or idols used in pure worship. It was never acceptable under any circumstances.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-15-2012).]

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: Mmmmh, that reminds me of some people and it's not atheists... To quote from the video I had posted earlier in this thread: "You don't get to put your unreason up on the same shelf as my reason."

Nor can you reason someone out of something they reasoned themselves into.

quote Originally posted by uhlanstan: ..My calm version, who do you think is destroying America as you watch?/ who craps & stands on the flag ?who insults the founding fathers ?? who wants to change the constitution?? who wants men to marry men??who spit on our troops??WHO KILLS BABIES?? I never expect the progressive ,socialist, marxist, democrats to like me ,I hate thier anti American guts we ONLY meet once a month GOD,GUNS GUTS & FIERO,S MADE AMERICA GREAT

Stan, I'm flying in to Orlando tomorrow. Maybe we should meet.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: On the contrary ray, I would hope that you, Wichita, Yellowstone and any others with an open mind and an open heart would come to know Christ. It seems many have a wall up that's thicker than I can get through, but God knows what each of you need.

I have opened my mind to know Christ. Many of the faithful claim that unbelievers in the deity of Jesus is just a person who has a closed mind and closed heart.

I can tell that I know more about the History of Christianity and the Bible than you do. I have looked, studied, read, grew up within the Religion and still attend Church.

What I have done is actually opened my mind and came up with the conclusion that Christianity is a religion (a massive cult following) and Jesus is not God nor was the son of God.

Sure! Somebody can deny that the Sun rises and sets across the sky everyday and others can tell him that it does. But the person who is so unshaken in his faith that the Sun never rises or sets and what we are really witnessing is Jesus opening and closing his eyes and then you claim that those who do not believe in what you do has a closed mind and heart.

Here is the major difference between agnostic/atheists and God-fearing Christians. Atheists don't care, and I don't care, what they hell you believe in so long as you are not harming other people or their property. Because it doesn't really matter what harmless little belief or fairytails you think are real, like kids who believe in Santa. It's a very harmless belief so long as it doesn't go to somebody's head who is in a position of authority. Because we all will met the same fate and that is we will all die, lights out we are gone forever.

But what you believe, you have serious issues with those who do not. You view them as soulless and going to hell to burn in eternity. And you are the special chosen one who gets to walk around heaven that is paved in gold, with half-naked chicks with bird wings playing harps. You have a personal mission to try to convert people to believe in what you believe in.

Atheists/Agnostics have no desire to try to convert people. We make speak about it and debate religion, but if you continue to want to believe in a Jesus God, then that's fine. Somebody like you who somewhat believes in Christianity worries about others who are not and say they will pray for them (when they never really do).

Don't worry! The future generations of your family will not be Christian, that I can assure you. You are the last vestige of believers. Future generations will not be indoctrinated, plus knowledge in history and science negates anybody really needing or believing in religion.

..the Atheist propaganda mill never stops..there is a war against Christians ,if the Christians dispeared tomorrow ,,America would soon disapear,,there are strong men in the world who want to control America under the Red banner or moslem banner,the more lefty lib green queers we have the better chance the real men can gain control of America ,Its part of the Chinese plan ,
.. the strong men would have your land, your money & your women,,it is the way of the world,,I have not lived as other men
I have fought Americas enemies untill injured in a scooter accident & left for dead by an illegal alien (not the lib outer space kind)
..I learn hate from the democrats, they have pushed for 50 years & every year destroy more of America ,,all you atheist agnostics,queers,democrats may win total victory, you will love the moslems controling you,or the final victory of your red totalitarian masters(They love atheist)
3 major political victories in the past 3 years were won by democrat trickery ,chicanery,wins by lawyer,,Minnesota al franken was an example, the Republican won,Coleman was his name I think,he won the recount, the democrats brought in many Lawyers A discovered car(sure) had 100s of vote in it ,ALL DEMOCRAT VOTES,a tragedy for america ,another liberal clown to the Senate
The country can not survive another 4 years of Obumbles,,I was surprised when they started there hate assault on our veterans,but the truth is out there,screw the veterans,more cash for losers
....................................................CASH FOR CLUNKERS INDEED
.....................................................TO MANY SOLYNDRA,s
.................................................... democ rats destroyed our financial system & the media ignored it??

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 04-15-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: Did that video create this motivator poster too?

Yeah not so much. More like this....

quote Originally posted by Wichita: ... Sure! Somebody can deny that the Sun rises and sets across the sky everyday and others can tell him that it does. But the person who is so unshaken in his faith that the Sun never rises or sets and what we are really witnessing is Jesus opening and closing his eyes and then you claim that those who do not believe in what you do has a closed mind and heart. ... You view them as soulless and going to hell to burn in eternity. And you are the special chosen one who gets to walk around heaven that is paved in gold, with half-naked chicks with bird wings playing harps. You have a personal mission to try to convert people to believe in what you believe in. ....

These are the odd statements that I want to single out.

Sunrise/sunset is Jesus blinking? Really? Who teaches that? Did you get taught that? I could see why you're antagonistic.... I am well aware of the relationship between the Sun, the Moon and the Earth. Sunrise, sunset, seasons, tides, all of it. How does Jesus blink on a separate schedule for someone in Mozambique? I guess that He's God, so He can do it however He wants to.... Seriously, who teaches that from the pulpit?

On the contrary, a nonbeliever is not soulless. It is because of the soul that we (do) pray. If you choose to follow another path, it saddens me, but wide is the path and many who travel it, that leads to destruction. As an aside, only God truly knows your heart, so it is not for me to decide where you go. For what I know, you gave your heart to Him hears ago, were hurt by someone in the church and now you are lashing out. OTOH, maybe you are just a jerk (and I am not calling you one, just a simple if/but statement). FWIW, I don't care either way. As I said to ray, I would that you all would find the narrow path. He know who will, and I plan on being on board that train.

As to half naked chicks with wings playing harps? All I have to do is win the lottery, and I could get that right here. I expect that Heaven is not only much more amazing that we imagine, I expect that it's much more amazing than we *can* imagine. And, if, as you say, when it's all done and you and I are in our "dirt nap," then at least I spent my life (or the latter part of it, at least) trying to make things better by following a guy who said, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself."

That said, the OP proves that Atheists are hardly ones to just let a sleeping dog lie. And they're using the billy club of the civilian courts to enforce their will on what is seen as the majority. Wasn't it another wise man who said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one"?

I will agree that faith in God - the true God, who sent His Son to die for us - is on the decline in this world. It may even become an "underground," of sorts, or, at least, it will be for a short time; for about seven years. Will I be among the last? I tend to doubt that. Science will never answer, "why?" and people need to know why.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Sorry Charlie, your wrong. Even a vampire knows that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Tau Nowhere in the Bible you'll find where the acceptance of any false gods or idols used in pure worship. It was never acceptable under any circumstances.

I was specifically referring to the Christian cross since it was a Christian cross you were accusing people of idolatry with.
But congratulations on your epic e-argument point. It doesn't have anything to do with the discussion at hand, but you did prove... something.

quote Originally posted by Patrick's Dad: These are the odd statements that I want to single out. Sunrise/sunset is Jesus blinking? Really? Who teaches that? Did you get taught that? I could see why you're antagonistic.... I am well aware of the relationship between the Sun, the Moon and the Earth. Sunrise, sunset, seasons, tides, all of it. How does Jesus blink on a separate schedule for someone in Mozambique? I guess that He's God, so He can do it however He wants to.... Seriously, who teaches that from the pulpit? On the contrary, a nonbeliever is not soulless. It is because of the soul that we (do) pray. If you choose to follow another path, it saddens me, but wide is the path and many who travel it, that leads to destruction. As an aside, only God truly knows your heart, so it is not for me to decide where you go. For what I know, you gave your heart to Him hears ago, were hurt by someone in the church and now you are lashing out. OTOH, maybe you are just a jerk (and I am not calling you one, just a simple if/but statement). FWIW, I don't care either way. As I said to ray, I would that you all would find the narrow path. He know who will, and I plan on being on board that train. As to half naked chicks with wings playing harps? All I have to do is win the lottery, and I could get that right here. I expect that Heaven is not only much more amazing that we imagine, I expect that it's much more amazing than we *can* imagine. And, if, as you say, when it's all done and you and I are in our "dirt nap," then at least I spent my life (or the latter part of it, at least) trying to make things better by following a guy who said, "Love your neighbor as you love yourself." That said, the OP proves that Atheists are hardly ones to just let a sleeping dog lie. And they're using the billy club of the civilian courts to enforce their will on what is seen as the majority. Wasn't it another wise man who said, "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one"? I will agree that faith in God - the true God, who sent His Son to die for us - is on the decline in this world. It may even become an "underground," of sorts, or, at least, it will be for a short time; for about seven years. Will I be among the last? I tend to doubt that. Science will never answer, "why?" and people need to know why.

Many people, Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Agnostics, etc have had heinous acts perpetrated against them by the various Christian churches, especially Catholicism. People are now striking back after centuries of abuses of power and influence by the church. It's not that those particular atheists are trying to be confrontational per say, it's more probable that they are tired of being subjected to inequality as far as beliefs go and they're strkiing back against something they see as an unfair system.

Again, tell the Native Americans they should have good views about Christians, or the people that suffered at the hands of the Spanish Inquisition, or even tell the Jews that Christians have always been their friends. Christianity WILL eventually fall out of favor, and another fairy tale will rise to take it's place. Then children will study the myth of Christianity in school just as they study Roman / Greek mythology now. I wasn't aiming at trying to offend anyone, and I'm sorry to be so blunt, but your stories are just stories, they don't answer why any more than anyone else's. You have the right to believe them, just as anyone else, and I actually agree with SOME of the Christian doctrine, but that doesn't mean the rest of us should suffer being told our "souls" are forfeit when we die because we don't believe in your story.

Believe what you want, but STOP trying to make everyone else believe it too. STOP trying to make everyone else follow your made up rules about what we can say and what we can enjoy. STOP telling everyone how much better you think you are and that they're less than you. This is something EVERY Christian does with their "belief". Funny I don't get this from many Muslims (not including the fanatics on that one), or Jews, or hindus, or Buddhists, etc. The Christians do it to an extreme, which is why most people who aren't Christians don't really care for their tactics, even other Christians.

You can give a Christian example after example of how things were designed to manipulate them, and how the bible even contradicts what they claim is right, and they'll still say their interpretation of faith is more important than any proof you give. This is why it is "predetermined" to fail. This is why the rest of us, however small we may be, will fight against it. It's almost like you guys are the Borg and you're trying to assimilate us, but you expect us to not put up a fight about it?

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Yeah not so much. More like this....

That is an EXCELLENT point! However, the argument never comes from Atheists refusing to listen because religions don't provide scientific proof. It's Atheists demanding religions stop believing or practicing in some way because Atheists are offended by the religious practicing their religion.

Look at this example at Camp Pendleton. Is there ANYTHING about that cross that prevents an Atheist from not listening to a Christian point of view? Are atheists who climb to the shrine to pray for their lost comrades .. oh wait - would an atheist even use the shrine? At all? Are Atheists demanding equal representation of "their non-religion" at a "shrine?"

If an Atheist doesn't believe and doesn't want to believe - more power to them.
If an Atheist wants others to not believe or restrict religious practices because they themselves don't believe - that's a problem.

..THE SELF RIGHTIOUS LIBERALS & ATHEIST WITH A SOLAR PANEL UP THIER BUTT,CONCIDER THEMSELF PSEUDO INTELLECTUALS WHO MOVE INTO BASEMENTS TO BE CLOSER TO HELL & THE DEVIL..
..COMPARED TO ANY DEMOCRAP ,IM AWSOME,A BUNCH OF CONDECENDING KNOW NOTHINGS,who
want to destroy,hurt stop.propegandise.compremde mon ami

There are a lot more complaners & whiners in the world, only way to explains the rapid increase in sniveling hate filled cross hating atheist democrats
I want to market Obumbles Biden toilet paper,,I think there is a big market of P. O.d former Obumbles supporters ?
they want to wipe away there vote shame.
,,Obumbles said Reagan would support him last week,,what further proof do you need the man is an idiot..
the women of america are better,more carefull drivers than men, but they are politically incompetent & may return slithering snake belly Obomunism..
to the white house
..all of God,s children are beautiful ??,,then why are the democratic women so monkey ugly,these squat toad,s would not need much make up for another return to the planet of the Apes
...........bring back the Winston Churchill bust to the white house ,fumigate it first !!

[This message has been edited by uhlanstan (edited 04-15-2012).]

quote Originally posted by Formula88: That is an EXCELLENT point! However, the argument never comes from Atheists refusing to listen because religions don't provide scientific proof. It's Atheists demanding religions stop believing or practicing in some way because Atheists are offended by the religious practicing their religion. Look at this example at Camp Pendleton. Is there ANYTHING about that cross that prevents an Atheist from not listening to a Christian point of view? Are atheists who climb to the shrine to pray for their lost comrades .. oh wait - would an atheist even use the shrine? At all? Are Atheists demanding equal representation of "their non-religion" at a "shrine?" If an Atheist doesn't believe and doesn't want to believe - more power to them. If an Atheist wants others to not believe or restrict religious practices because they themselves don't believe - that's a problem.

Yes, their motives will dictate whether they are being reasonable or not. You don't need to sit and listen and say "ok use scientific method to prove it to me" to refuse to want to listen. The constant barrage of brainwashing attempts causes people to shut down to it, and not want to listen even if someone had a better way of explaining. Then the truth eventually has to come out, we know you don't have proof. The same argument has been going on for centuries, and nothing has come out that proves what you're saying.

We'll talk when he / she (whoever it is you're relying on to save you from yourself) returns ok? We'll talk when you don't have people trying to prove that the Earth was actually made in 7 days, and that all scientific evidence that it took millions / billions of years is in fact wrong. We'll talk when mankind evolves to the point where we can even comprehend what's actually happening in our own bodies, then on the planet, then the universe. Right now, you guys are just as ignorant as I am, more so in some cases (not intended for anyone specifically), so I know damn well YOU don't know the secrets of anything. It's like one kindergartener telling another kindergartener what advanced calculus is before they've even learned to read.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 04-15-2012).]

Let's see the graves of the fallen soldiers of the revolutionary war were marked with crosses, and it seems to me that graves of our fallen soldiers throughout the history of this country were marked with crosses. So now an atheist group is trying to remove them from a memorial? I am guessing the graves are going to me next. And I am surprised that they haven't gone after the memorials along the side of the highway where people have been killed.
My problem is that the cross is not a religious symbol. It is a Christian symbol, and Christianity is a belief. Just like atheism is a belief. Catholicism, Lutherism, Protestantism... are Chistian religions. The muslim belief has the shiite religion and the and the suni religion. Judaism has the orthodox, conservative, and reform. The first amendment bars the federal government from making us follow any one of the several religions. The belief in God is set forth in the federal constitution and in all 50 of the state constitutions. The federal government is a little more subtle than the states however the message is there. "Blessings of liberty" and "Signed in the Year of Our Lord"
As for the states here are all the preambles:
http://www.truthorfiction.c...od-constitutions.htm

Now what would the atheists do if a school district decided to recite the preamble to the state constitution every day? Scream it is unconstitutional? The preambles are nondenominational, in other words they do not establish any of the religions, they just recognize God as the source of all we have. Which is a belief just like atheism.

It all boils down to definitions. By definition liberals want change. So the judges that are liberal tend to want to change the definition of words. God is now a religion in their minds.

I as a conservative know the definition of religion is different from belief, and know that God is a belief not a religion.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: Many people, Atheists, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Agnostics, etc have had heinous acts perpetrated against them by the various Christian churches, especially Catholicism. People are now striking back after centuries of abuses of power and influence by the church. It's not that those particular atheists are trying to be confrontational per say, it's more probable that they are tired of being subjected to inequality as far as beliefs go and they're strkiing back against something they see as an unfair system. ....

So Atheists are the caped avengers, bringing on hellfire and damnation for things that happened centuries ago....