quote Originally posted by newf: Great another equal opportunity bigot.

fixed that for ya!

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: funny I remember video(and quite a few) of muslums jumping up and down like it was a party when 911 was happening LIVE.. you know the ones here.. wonder why they have a stereotype that they do.. shocking action, actions, actions not words..

OK. Let's say I'm a Muslim and I hear or read about this suggestion that came up on an al-Qaida website to go start a forest fire somewhere. And I decide to ignore this suggestion. Not to start a forest fire.

Is that an action?

That's what the first post on page one of this thread was about--a new posting on an al-Qaida website.

Or is that not enough?

So, as a good Muslim living here in the U.S., I'm required to stop doing whatever else I might be doing, suspend my whole life for a day and do what? Tell another Muslim not to start any forest fire? That's going to be reported to you on the evening news? Start a mass demonstration in the streets, about this latest al-Qaida website posting? What should I do tomorrow, when there's another posting on the al-Qaida website?

Oh I know. I should have called my good friend E. Furgal and assured him that I wasn't about to start any forest fires.

You're not making much sense to me.

Or is this really about 9-11..? As if the whole world, including its Muslims, hasn't ever reacted to that event. Did you know that not too long ago, Muslims in Michigan burned Osama bin Laden in effigy?

I don't want PFF posters to give Muslims a free pass for everything that goes down from one day to the next.

I just wonder what Muslims in the U.S. are supposed to do from day to day whenever al-Qaida posts a new incitement on their website, or whenever some Muslim nut job in Saudi Arabia decides its time to destroy the Pyramids..?

It's a practical question for you.

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: OK. Let's say I'm a Muslim and I hear or read about this suggestion that came up on an al-Qaida website to go start a forest fire somewhere. And I decide to ignore this suggestion. Not to start a forest fire. Is that an action? That's what the first post on page one of this thread was about--a new posting on an al-Qaida website. Or is that not enough? So, as a good Muslim living here in the U.S., I'm required to stop doing whatever else I might be doing, suspend my whole life for a day and do what? Tell another Muslim not to start any forest fire? That's going to be reported to you on the evening news? Start a mass demonstration in the streets, about this latest al-Qaida website posting? What should I do tomorrow, when there's another posting on the al-Qaida website? Oh I know. I should have called my good friend E. Furgal and assured him that I wasn't about to start any forest fires. You're not making much sense to me. Or is this really about 9-11..? As if the whole world, including its Muslims, hasn't ever reacted to that event. Did you know that not too long ago, Muslims in Michigan burned Osama bin Laden in effigy? I don't want PFF posters to give Muslims a free pass for everything that goes down from one day to the next. I just wonder what Muslims in the U.S. are supposed to do from day to day whenever al-Qaida posts a new incitement on their website, or whenever some Muslim nut job in Saudi Arabia decides its time to destroy the Pyramids..? It's a practical question for you.

OK, lets say I am NOT a Muslim, or an Xtian, or a Judiast, or a Spaghettist (is that a word?)...and I choose NOT to comply with the tenets, beliefs or values of any of them, simply because it is my right to do so...

BUT for refusing to comply, some extremist spaghetti-lover decides to call for burning down my home. AND, a whole big wack of tomattoe-sauce sympathizers decide to do nothing in protest or to defend me and my right not to join (funny thing about religious people--very few will stand up for your right NOT to be part of their group), and another big bunch of garlic-heads decide to take up pitchforks, torches and AK-47's to burn the heretic...BURN THE HERETIC...(its been going on between humans for 50,000 years---kill anybody who wont think like we do)

Well, if they want sympathy from the heretic, its in the dictionary....between sheet and syphilis....and I like Lasagna a lot better than spaghetti anyway. With lots of fresh-ground pepper. And garlic...the more garlic-heads I murder to make my noodles with, the better it is for me. If the clover dont like it, thats just tough--I will slaughter entire clover-fields and clover-famalies to defend the great garlic. Let not get into extra-virgin olive oil, or I will have to burn down entire dandelion fields !!!!

quote Originally posted by yellowstone: We're the only species that knows what we inflict on others (man or beast) and still do it and often even enjoy it.

and how can we be so sure about this..

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: The Koran is a long book. It says a lot of things. On one page it says "Kill all infidels." On another page it says "Be just and merciful to all." There's at least as much to like as not to like in the Koran. Even from the viewpoint of an "infidel". Some posters (like dennis_6) have cherry-picked the Koran to illustrate just the one side of the Koran that they (dennis_6, et al..) are hanging their hat on. You cannot read the Koran in the same way that a Christian fundamentalist reads the Bible, as a simple, straightforward, internally consistent and perfectly literal prescription of how to live in the modern world. A Christian fundamentalist doesn't need (or at least thinks that he doesn't need) to have the Bible interpreted for him through the intermediary of Christian scholarship--professional Christian clergy. So the Koran says on page 973 (or whatever) "Kill all infidels." The question is what does that mean in the modern world? What does it mean in the light of page 1024 (or whatever) that says "Be just and merciful to all."? And that's where Islamic scholarship and tradition must be taken into consideration by a true Muslim. And that gets us to the Amman Message, which is trying to establish a newer and more modern Islamic scholarship and tradtion that is better suited for the modern world. I said before that--to the best of my understanding--you can't just sit down by yourself, read the Koran from front to back and try to be a Muslim without reference to the latest in Islamic scholarship and tradition--without consulting the intermediary or interpretative function of Islamic clergy. You can't really be a Muslim fundamentalist because you would have to be both merciful and merciless to non-believers, all at the same time. People who try to be Muslim fundamentalists end up like Osama bin Laden. So I hold that a Muslim fundamentalist is the kind of Muslim who is out of line with true Islam, as defined by the Amman Message. A Muslim fundamentalist is a radical Muslim is an Islamic radical is an Islamist--and I condemn them all. The real question is when will more Islamic scholars and clergy around the world get in step with the intent of the Amman Message, which I think is the best new direction for Islam (that I know of). Even Jordan, where the Amman Message originated, still has blasphemy laws to punish anyone who insults Islam--although the punishment on the books in Jordan is somewhat less draconian than the new blasphemy law that is being instituted in Kuwait. I think that the U.S. is one place, especially, where the Amman Message may take hold as the predominant flavor of Islam. I could point to certain signs, like this Muslim blogger in Texas (thanks to maryjane). Or the Cordoba Initiative, which I already referenced in one of my many posts on this subject. Even if there are only a relatively few "good" Muslims, I don't like to see them being thrown into the same bucket as the many, many bad ones around the world. When you throw all Muslims under the bus, you go down the same slippery slope of uncritical stereotyping as Toddster did here.. and that ain't right!

Do not for get the other books that go along with the coran. They also think that the doings and other teachings of muhomid ar a part of the religion. DO NOT underestimate the books they call hadith. They are the recored doings and teachings of the god they call mohomid. The first hand recordings are considered the most acurate. The more "pastdown" the recordeings =the less acurate. Firsthand hadith are as "godyl" as the coran.

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: untill the ones around me, stop hi 5's each other when the news reports another troops death.. I'll have my opinion of the non extreme muslums.. thats not being a bigot.. learn the meaning of the word

Bigot - : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.

quote Originally posted by E.Furgal: just as it does with catholic priest, and jews, and irish ,etc etc, they ok what the extremist do. by being passive..

You were saying?

quote Originally posted by F355spider: Why change it they are the same thing.

maby he has a point here...

Muslims = Al Qaeda

Christians = Westboro group...

No difference right?