Originally posted by dennis_6: Neighbors of Pakistani Christian girl in blasphemy case living in fear
Muslim imam arrested in Pakistan blasphemy case
Pakistani police have arrested an imam accused of planting burnt pages of the Koran in the bag of a Christian girl accused of blasphemy, officials say.
The girl was detained two weeks ago after after an angry mob demanded she be punished for the alleged crime.
However, a witness has testified that imam Khalid Chishti put the pages in the bag himself, local media say.
The case of the girl, named as Rimsha, who is said to be about 14, has sparked international condemnation.
A report by a government-appointed medical board seen by the BBC suggests the girl has a mental age of less than 14.
Earlier this week, a court extended Rimsha's detention at a maximum-security prison by a further two weeks.
Her father has said he fears for his daughter's life and for the safety of his family. He has called on Pakistani President Asif Ali Zardari to pardon her.
Rimsha's parents have been taken into protective custody following threats, and many other Christian families have fled the neighbourhood.
Pakistan's strict blasphemy laws are often used to settle personal vendettas, correspondents say.
Last year two leading politicians were assassinated after speaking out against the legislation.
I'll bite. It won't happen overnight largely for the same reason that the huge body of good, devout, European Christians took so long to "stand up" against The Inquisition: well-founded fear. Well, fear combined with habitual submission to authority, a desire to just live their lives in peace, and a fervent hope not to attract the attention of the religious zealots among them. We tend to overlook the fact that the religious tolerance our Founding Fathers enshrined in the Constitution was something rather unique in modern human history.
Lots of things do happen overnight tho. All within 48 hrs... Pakistan Afghanistan Kashmir Beruit Cairo Solo Java Turkey London
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-04-2012).]
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01:38 AM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Mob action has always been easier to incite than to disperse, and there have always been extremists willing to incite. That said, all those photos appear to be of passionate but largely peaceful political, rather than primarily religious, protests. As distasteful as it may sometimes be, peaceful protest is the very antithesis of mob violence. Our Founding Fathers understood that.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 09-04-2012).]
My point exactly--mainstream Islam simply isn't willing to stand and incite opposition to violence.
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If the 2 billion people who globally self-identify as muslims would stand as one and throw extremism and violence out, there would be a lot less violence in the world, but that ain't gonna happen and there's a reason it won't.
It's not that the Imams and clerics aren't capable of ordering or asking their followers to do it--it's that they simply choose not to. They can (and have) put a million Muslims in the streets in any and every corner of the world at the drop of a hat for any reason, but we will never see them do so in opposition to violence and terrorism. Ever.
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02:06 AM
rinselberg Member
Posts: 16118 From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA) Registered: Mar 2010
I read it. I now have 3 different tabs open trying to follow your train of converstaion here, but they all echo the same thing and all avoid the crux of the problem. Tolerance, has to work both directions and in regards to violence and terrorism in religios context, it rarely if ever does. IF Mr Patel had actually stood in front of an audience and microphone, publicly and emphatically called for all extremist in his religion to be cast out of Islam, or hunted down and imprisoned, I would applaud his efforts and say "Great--only 1,999,999,999 more to follow his lead and we'll see some real results". He hasn't and won't.
It's nothing new, and this won't end untill tolerance works both directions. This nation got it's first real look and firsthand experience with Islam in 1785, during the Barbary Pirate conflict and controversy. In an effort to negotiate a peaceful end to piracy, several US diplomats attempted to reach a peaceful accord with Tripoli and were aghast at what they were told. Not much has changed since then.
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Various letters and testimonies by captured sailors described their captivity as a form of slavery, even though Barbary Coast imprisonment was different from slavery practiced by the U.S. and European powers of the time.[11] Barbary Coast prisoners were able to obtain wealth and property, along with achieving status beyond that of a slave. One such example was James Leander Cathcart, who rose to the highest position a Christian slave could achieve in Algeria, ending up as an adviser to the Algerian Dey, or king.[12] Even so, most captives were pressed into hard labor in the service of the Barbary pirates, and struggled under extremely poor conditions that exposed them to vermin and disease. As word of the poor treatment reached back to the U.S., through freed captives' narratives or letters, American civilians were pushing for direct action by the government to stop the piracy against U.S. ships. In March 1785, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams went to London to negotiate with Tripoli's envoy, Ambassador Sidi Haji Abdrahaman (or Sidi Haji Abdul Rahman Adja). Upon inquiring "concerning the ground of the pretensions to make war upon nations who had done them no injury", the ambassador replied: It was written in their Koran, that all nations which had not acknowledged the Prophet were sinners, whom it was the right and duty of the faithful to plunder and enslave; and that every mussulman who was slain in this warfare was sure to go to paradise. He said, also, that the man who was the first to board a vessel had one slave over and above his share, and that when they sprang to the deck of an enemy's ship, every sailor held a dagger in each hand and a third in his mouth; which usually struck such terror into the foe that they cried out for quarter at once. [19]
It was this barbaric and brutally truthful reply that led the later President Jefferson to change his mind about a standing navy and army, and it was also this conversation that led the young US to it's 1st military engagement without congressional approval or declaration of war. We do indeed, have a lot to thank Islam for.
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-04-2012).]
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03:19 AM
rinselberg Member
Posts: 16118 From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA) Registered: Mar 2010
Looks fine to me and I reviewed my post afterwards and saw nothing wrong either. (Chrome bowser) And it's not me--look at the tags in your url and quote up above. A loose bracket
[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 09-04-2012).]
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03:27 AM
rinselberg Member
Posts: 16118 From: Sunnyvale, CA (USA) Registered: Mar 2010
Originally posted by maryjane: If Mr Patel had actually stood in front of an audience and microphone, publicly and emphatically called for all extremist in his religion to be cast out of Islam, or hunted down and imprisoned, I would applaud his efforts and say "Great--only 1,999,999,999 more to follow his lead and we'll see some real results".
So we have different ideas about how Islam could be reformed. Different ideas about what particular methods are actually available to modern-thinking Muslims (like the U.S.-based Eboo Patel) who say that they want to bring about a renewal of Islam that would promote peace and tolerance among different nations and faiths.
I think that the only practical course for well-intentioned Muslim leaders is to offer a competing message to Muslims--a message that Muslims can stack up against the messages that are coming from Islamic extremists--and find more truthful than the messages that are coming from Islamic extremists.
I think that is what the more progressive Muslim leaders are trying to achieve with the interfaith projects that involve Muslims meeting with and cooperating for common goals with people outside the Muslim faith.
[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 09-04-2012).]
There are no options off the table--nothing UNavailable.
Why did I know the words "modern-thinking" and "progressive" would enter into this conversation? (couldn't find a way to interject "enlightened" as well?)
It boils down to one thing and one thing only, and I won't sugar coat it. No balls.
