I am looking at some new single stage snowblowers, and am unsure how to compare engine sizes across 2 cycle vs 4 cycle machines.

For instance, the 4 cycle machines go up to 208cc engines, where as the 2 cycles (at least the few I see) seem to top out at 141cc.

Do the 4 cycles make less power per displacement?

Generally speaking - yeah. 2 cycles have a power stroke every rotation of the crank. 4 cycles have a power stroke every 2. So for the same displacement, 2 cycles will have twice the power............. not 100% correct of course, but maybe 50% due to cylinder filling properties?

Ok, that makes sense then. Based on the sizes I am seeing, it may not be a 2 for 1 difference, as I would imagine the top of the line versions would produce similar power.

Keep in mind, with the 2 stroke engine your going to have to mix the oil and gas, at a cost of about $2.50 (you wont use the whole bottle per tank and I think some stores sell it in quarts).I beleave the 2 strokes are noiseyer. Ide go with the 4 stroke. Be sure to give the motor a pull befor buying, those larger motors can be a beyotch to pull.

2 cycle get more emission than 4 cycle... Is why USEPA and some states are/will ban 2 cycle on mowers and snow blowers.

2 cycle on small units only to save weight.
I have a small unit with a two cycle engine and single stage blower. I mix a quart of gas and an ounce of oil to fill up the tank.
It's good for light snow is about it.

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Unless you plan to carry the snowblower on your back, don't bother with a 2-stroke model. They're stinky (because of the mixed gas) and noisy.

4-stroke FTW.

Being in Buffalo, I would think you want a nice two stage snowblower. At least that is what we use around here, for the most part and they just cut through the snow. I have an 11HP two stage and some times I wish it was even larger.

2 cylces DO NOT have twice the power. they have the similar power but are twice as responsive

quote Originally posted by Fformula88: I am looking at some new single stage snowblowers, and am unsure how to compare engine sizes across 2 cycle vs 4 cycle machines. For instance, the 4 cycle machines go up to 208cc engines, where as the 2 cycles (at least the few I see) seem to top out at 141cc. Do the 4 cycles make less power per displacement?

2 strokes get power earlier in the rpm band. But, they don't produce net more power per cc. I am in London, just down the road. I have an 11.5 hp engine one. It has saved my hide countless times with heavy snow. There is not a 2 cycle snow blower out there that can stay with it. Better big with an electric start.

Arn

quote Originally posted by jaskispyder: Being in Buffalo, I would think you want a nice two stage snowblower. At least that is what we use around here, for the most part and they just cut through the snow. I have an 11HP two stage and some times I wish it was even larger.

I have been using single stages predominantly for about 20 years. The first was a small Murray machine. It would handle snow easily up to about twice the height of it's intake. I supplemented this with a 2 stage machine for really bad/deep storms. I was using the 2 stage about twice a year.

In more recent times, I had been using a Toro Snow Commander, which for lack of better description, might be considered a super single stage. It had a 15 inch high intake, 7 HP 2 stroke motor. I think I touched the dual stage thrower once or twice, total, in the about 10 years of owning the Toro.

The single stage does get overmatched, or close to it, if we end up with one of those once a decade storms, that dumps feet at a time, and you let it pile up too much between cleanings. Otherwise, I find them much better for those up to 1 to 6 inch snows we typically get.

Unfortunately, they discontinued the snow commander, but still sell the larger engine in their largest single stage. I think it will be sufficient for 98% of the snows I will see.

2 cycle snow blower works well for about 4" or less. Since your in buffalo and get lake affect snow then I would go with a 2 stage 4 cycle snowblower. Get one with 11 hp or bigger and with electric start, and self propelled. If you get a heavy snow fall you will be fusing yourself out with the little one. That is my 2 cents

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: 2 cylces DO NOT have twice the power. they have the similar power but are twice as responsive

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: 2 strokes get power earlier in the rpm band. But, they don't produce net more power per cc. I am in London, just down the road. I have an 11.5 hp engine one. It has saved my hide countless times with heavy snow. There is not a 2 cycle snow blower out there that can stay with it. Better big with an electric start. Arn

Yamaha YZ250F - 4 stroke, 250CC 34HP @ 11,500rpm
Yamaha YZ250 - 2 stroke, 250CC 48.8HP @ 8,800 rpm

44% more power per displacement for the 2 stroke

O.S. 1.2ci Four Stroke Glow Engine - 2.1HP @ 12,000rpm
O.S. 1.2ci 2 Stroke Glow Engine - 3.3HP @ 9,000rpm

57% more power per displacement for the 2 stroke

I think I did alright when I pulled 50% more power out of the air per displacement for the 2 stroke!

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Yamaha YZ250F - 4 stroke, 250CC 34HP @ 11,500rpm Yamaha YZ250 - 2 stroke, 250CC 48.8HP @ 8,800 rpm 44% more power per displacement for the 2 stroke O.S. 1.2ci Four Stroke Glow Engine - 2.1HP @ 12,000rpm O.S. 1.2ci 2 Stroke Glow Engine - 3.3HP @ 9,000rpm 57% more power per displacement for the 2 stroke I think I did alright when I pulled 50% more power out of the air per displacement for the 2 stroke!

this is also coming from a company that was found guilty of overstating the power of thier motors. (amonst many others) and what ive been taught not only by my small engines instructor but my diesel instructor is wrong. im not trying to be an ass but i believe them over internet statistics.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Yamaha YZ250F - 4 stroke, 250CC 34HP @ 11,500rpm Yamaha YZ250 - 2 stroke, 250CC 48.8HP @ 8,800 rpm 44% more power per displacement for the 2 stroke O.S. 1.2ci Four Stroke Glow Engine - 2.1HP @ 12,000rpm O.S. 1.2ci 2 Stroke Glow Engine - 3.3HP @ 9,000rpm 57% more power per displacement for the 2 stroke I think I did alright when I pulled 50% more power out of the air per displacement for the 2 stroke!

Ryan you can't use those engines as representative of the subject. They are both purpose built and I can safely stand by my original statement. Please find us a 2 stroke snow blower that can throw snow like a 2 stage 11 hp Tecumseh. It just ain't gonna happen. Moreover, as you move up the scale it gets more pronounced. Look at your 1000+ cc class of bikes. I also have a 2 stroke Murray single stage blower. Sure it works for its size, but, the ability to move snow is pretty limited.

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Ryan you can't use those engines as representative of the subject. They are both purpose built and I can safely stand by my original statement. Please find us a 2 stroke snow blower that can throw snow like a 2 stage 11 hp Tecumseh. It just ain't gonna happen. Moreover, as you move up the scale it gets more pronounced. Look at your 1000+ cc class of bikes. I also have a 2 stroke Murray single stage blower. Sure it works for its size, but, the ability to move snow is pretty limited. Arn

I'm not saying a 2 stroke snow blower is better than a 11hp Tec..... The 2 stroke is maybe 4hp. Apples and oranges. 350+cc 4 stroke vs 100cc 2 cycle?

I don't think 1000cc 2 stroke bikes exist....... They would get very, very bad gas mileage and I doubt they could pass emissions. But I can compare snowmobile engines?

Polaris 750cc 4 stroke - 80hp
Polaris 600cc 2 stroke - 125hp
(http://www.snowmobile.com/manufacturers/polaris/2010-polaris-widetrak-iq-options-1130.html)

Now that one is almost a 95% improvement, compensating for displacement........

quote Originally posted by Niterrorz: this is also coming from a company that was found guilty of overstating the power of thier motors. (amonst many others) and what ive been taught not only by my small engines instructor but my diesel instructor is wrong. im not trying to be an ass but i believe them over internet statistics.

Why do I feel like I'm trying to convert someone to a new religion? It's simple physics. Twice as many explosions per second = twice as much power. The 2 stroke is less efficient than a 4 stroke, which means less power per stroke, but still easily 50% more power per displacement. That's also why they're gas hogs.

"Since your in buffalo and get lake affect snow then I would go with a 2 stage 4 cycle snowblower. Get one with 11 hp or bigger and with electric start, and self propelled. If you get a heavy snow fall you will be fusing yourself out with the little one. That is my 2 cents"

I live in metro MN, no lake effect.. my 5hp 4 cycle requires multiple trips during heavy storms.
Shop Craigslist now, find a monster for cheap and never worry.. You live in the snowbelt never ever go small cheap. You'll only regret buying one of those small 2cycle dusters.. Waste of money.. First real storm and you'll be out all night every hour on the hour to clear.
Get a solid Ariens, Toro, Craftsman etc 6+ HP, sleep in, wake up and knock that mess out of the way.

quote Originally posted by ryan.hess: Why do I feel like I'm trying to convert someone to a new religion? It's simple physics. Twice as many explosions per second = twice as much power. The 2 stroke is less efficient than a 4 stroke, which means less power per stroke, but still easily 50% more power per displacement. That's also why they're gas hogs.

well your feelings are semi correct. im open to new things and originally i thought the same thing when i asked both of my instructors if 2 strokes make more power since they fire twice as many times and both of them said they do not they are only more responsive. im not saying your wrong persay im just saying i believe them over you because they have 60-70ish combined years in the field and thats what they get paid to do. now im not saying they arnt failible but im gonna need some real hardcore proof i can throw in thier face when i see them next time and im so not kidding about that. theres one thing i love doign and thats proving college teachers wrong so other than whats youve stated already if you can give me something that really hits home ill be golden

quote Originally posted by coxguy1: 2 cycle snow blower works well for about 4" or less. Since your in buffalo and get lake affect snow then I would go with a 2 stage 4 cycle snowblower. Get one with 11 hp or bigger and with electric start, and self propelled. If you get a heavy snow fall you will be fusing yourself out with the little one. That is my 2 cents

Thanks for the advice, but your selling 2 cycles short. I have been using them for a couple decades... in Buffalo. I am very familiar with what they can handle. They work very well for 98% of snowfalls.

I did end up picking one up yesterday too. It's a 2 year old Toro that someone was selling who is moving. Rarely used. The skid underneath and paddles look brand new! New it is a $700 machine, loaded, 141cc 2 cycle motor. Sold it to me for $350. So I am pleased!!
If it proves inadequate in the worst of storms, I do have a 30 year old Simplicity 2 stage I can fall back on, but I have not had to pull that machine out in 5 years!

[This message has been edited by Fformula88 (edited 09-22-2012).]