In other words, morons. Uneducated people who have no idea what built this country. Welcome to the Soviet States of America. Get your guns while they are still legal, a new revolution may be required if the next 4 years look as bad as the last 4.
The sad part is that I used to have faith in the intelligence of the average American and chalked 2008 up to an anomaly. McCain was a lack luster candidate and Obama was stylish and the first African American to win his Parties' nomination. The "cool" factor had to be the solution I summized. But now I have to readily accept that the average American is an uneducated sheep. Is the education system to blame? Is the Hollywood culture to blame? When people with 2 digit IQs are allowed to have a say in who is in power you will end up with 2 digit IQ Leaders. Oh well, get used to high unemplyment for an ever increasing record number of months and years, Atlas will shrug at some point.
Is that right? College students, women, and minorities are morons? Did you even see the demographics? Obama won in MOST of the larger cities, where the majority of the state populations are concentrated. You know cities right? Places where MORE people are educated? Places where MORE people have a higher exposure to culture and diversity? Funny how all of these threads about how people are going to leave, denounce, horde guns, etc came from the right if their guy didn't win. Then when their guy loses, they go on the warpath blaming the rest of America that their way wasn't accepted. Hello, maybe your way isn't what the majority wants. Maybe the guy you put up there scared the hell out of people that didn't want a religious fanatic making decisions on their freedom. Hell I didn't want either guy, but Romney scared the hell out of me. There's no way in hell I want to go backwards and have someone trying to dictate what I can and can't do based on their religion, which is one of the most far-fetched ones around right now. Sorry man, your way of seeing things wasn't accepted. You can either stay or go now. If you stay, what's the point of trying to blame everyone else because YOUR beliefs failed?
**EDIT** Yes all the hells are intentional. Considering the word of choice I wanted to use, I scaled it back.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 11-07-2012).]
Originally posted by Cliff Pennock: ... What the government doesn't seem to grasp, is that businesses are the pillars of the economy. We are the ones creating jobs. Take away our money and we can't af ford to hire people (anymore) and unemployment will rise. This is the socialist way.
More people with less income will vote for the one promising to take it from the rich and give it to the poor. ....
Very true. Add to that over here when the U.S. government says it can create jobs, it doesnt seem to realize there is usually no demand for those jobs. By that I don't mean people arent in need of a job, I mean there is no demand. Such as there is no consumer demand for it. Supply/demand. The government can "create" a supply of job openings, but the pay for those jobs will have to come from the goverment, where does the gov get its money? Then the gov can offer incentives and tax breaks to the structures it set up to manage these gov created "jobs". Those funds lost are still needed though, which raises taxes more on the real job builders out there. Private business, which always operates on supply and demand.
IMO
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04:23 PM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43231 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
....and the big cities are also where the ghettos are...mostly uneducated low lifes who thrive on robbing, stealing, murdering. A lot of them dont get past 9th grade, at least here. Most smaller towns (say under 75-100K) and rural towns dont even have a ghetto area. There mostly full of lower to middle income working families. Most of them dont even lock cars or houses. I dont have any problem going for a late nite walk or bike ride in one of them. You couldnt pay me to ride a bike...or walk around at nite with a gf here in the 'big city'. The voters for a large part of the big cities are getting free government handouts for everything from food to housing so why wouldnt they vote for someone to keep their gravy train running.
Are you kidding me? You don't actually believe this do you? From that link...
quote
This obstructionism is largely attributable to the group within the Republican Party known as the Tea Party. As filmmaker Sorkin claims, the coalition of ultraconservatives has developed into the "American Taliban." They view Darwin's Theory of Evolution as the stuff of the devil, homosexuals as diseased and women as subordinate to men. They oppose contraception and are so filled with hate in their efforts to ban abortion that they don't seem to object when violent anti-abortion activists burn down the offices of liberal doctors.
....and the big cities are also where the ghettos are...mostly uneducated low lifes who thrive on robbing, stealing, murdering. A lot of them dont get past 9th grade, at least here. Most smaller towns (say under 75-100K) and rural towns dont even have a ghetto area. There mostly full of lower to middle income working families. Most of them dont even lock cars or houses. I dont have any problem going for a late nite walk or bike ride in one of them. You couldnt pay me to ride a bike...or walk around at nite with a gf here in the 'big city'. The voters for a large part of the big cities are getting free government handouts for everything from food to housing so why wouldnt they vote for someone to keep their gravy train running.
And some of the worst areas in the country as far as poverty and illiteracy are rural areas. What's your point? Aren't you one of the people that was moving if Obama won? House up for sale yet?
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06:09 PM
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steve308 Member
Posts: 3993 From: Stafford VA Registered: Jan 2008
I occasionally read to be made aware of other points of view....not simply to verify my own.
(edited because i am collecting neg's..someone can't take a joke?) I wasn't throwing a jab, I really wanted to know if you believe any of that link? I still do.....?
[This message has been edited by WBailey1041 (edited 11-07-2012).]
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06:16 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
He's and American with a opinion - Isn't that a right, or are we squashing that right now?
I'm mainly hearing a bunch of whining that others have opinions different than their opinions and exercised those opinions through the ballot box as guaranteed by the US Constitution. It's time to accept the outcome and move forward together.
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06:24 PM
mptighe Member
Posts: 3321 From: Houston, TX Registered: Aug 2009
I'm mainly hearing a bunch of whining that others have opinions different than their opinions and exercised those opinions through the ballot box as guaranteed by the US Constitution. It's time to accept the outcome and move forward together.
Amen. However, this is the interwebz, and we're all smarter than everone else.
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06:28 PM
82-T/A [At Work] Member
Posts: 23667 From: Florida USA Registered: Aug 2002
This is what is happening in Europe right now. As it turns out, the governments have been giving away money ("social benefits") while the source (the "rich" companies) had dried up. Even so, the socialist are trying to squeeze every last cent out of that group. The result is that big companies are fleeing the continent and people like me (and my wife since she is a business owner as well) are the government's new target.
Just to re-enforce what Cliff said... here's a list of some of the more major companies that have recently left Holland due to the advanced socialism there:
KLM - Bought by Air France (which is subsidized by the French government) At one time, was the largest airline in the world. Philips - "Merged" with Magnovox, but the primary HQ is not in Holland. ABN AMRO - At one time, the second largest bank in the world, now no longer exists, it was sold off and broken up. ING - One of Holland's largest banks, just sold off most of their bank, the insurance arm to the Chinese, and ING Direct to the Canadians. Fortis - Another bank that has been sold off.
Just to name a few...
Cliff... I don't want to believe that the American people voted because they wanted more socialism, but I think you're right. Is there anyone here who would disagree with this? Is there anyone here who voted for Obama and does not support socialism?
I've argued with my Dutch relatives every time I'm there, or they come here... and they don't want to listen... they don't seem to have a problem with it, and yet they're all living in small homes with very modest jobs, and their children (my cousins) are being supported by them, with no prospects for jobs... some of them don't even bother going to college even though it's provided to them. They all came from wealth... my grandfather owned an enormous dry-cleaning conglomerate in Holland that is now owned by Rentex Interlin BV. The "kids," my uncles, sold the factory in Vassen and all of the chains to an investor. The company once employed almost 9,000 employees at one point, including fleets of trucks. They live well... but their children, like the rest of the youth (young adults) in Holland, aren't motivated anymore... at least not like their business-oriented forefathers were. They are embracing socialism...
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06:42 PM
Lambo nut Member
Posts: 4442 From: Centralia,Missouri. USA Registered: Sep 2003
Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: Cliff... I don't want to believe that the American people voted because they wanted more socialism, but I think you're right. Is there anyone here who would disagree with this? Is there anyone here who voted for Obama and does not support socialism?
Yes I'm sure there was. People are programmed to run from pain not towards pleasure. Most people who vote, do so to try to stop "the other guy" from getting in because they have some kind of disagreement with how they see things. Simply put, I don't think Obama would have been the favorite if Romney wouldn't have actually made people distrust him more than they did Obama. The familiar fear / issue is something more easily dealt with. Romney raised red flags, even within the Republican party, and he had almost NO connection with the middle or lower classes here. Most people don't even know enough about socialism to even argue about it. What they do know, is that Romney not only isn't like them, but he's openly threatening to do things that go against how they see things, openly flip-flops on things, and has been caught in many lies. He lost himself the race.
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06:50 PM
Toddster Member
Posts: 20871 From: Roswell, Georgia Registered: May 2001
Is that right? College students, women, and minorities are morons? Did you even see the demographics? Obama won in MOST of the larger cities, where the majority of the state populations are concentrated. You know cities right? Places where MORE people are educated? Places where MORE people have a higher exposure to culture and diversity? Funny how all of these threads about how people are going to leave, denounce, horde guns, etc came from the right if their guy didn't win. Then when their guy loses, they go on the warpath blaming the rest of America that their way wasn't accepted. Hello, maybe your way isn't what the majority wants. Maybe the guy you put up there scared the hell out of people that didn't want a religious fanatic making decisions on their freedom. Hell I didn't want either guy, but Romney scared the hell out of me. There's no way in hell I want to go backwards and have someone trying to dictate what I can and can't do based on their religion, which is one of the most far-fetched ones around right now. Sorry man, your way of seeing things wasn't accepted. You can either stay or go now. If you stay, what's the point of trying to blame everyone else because YOUR beliefs failed?
**EDIT** Yes all the hells are intentional. Considering the word of choice I wanted to use, I scaled it back.
Yes, I saw the dempgraphics. Most men 30 years an older voted Romney. Mopst men 30 years an older have 12+ educations AS WELL as years of experience in the work force. In other words, the people who built this country voted for Romney and the people who benefit from that construction (student, women, and minorities) voted for Obama.
Yes I'm sure there was. People are programmed to run from pain not towards pleasure. Most people who vote, do so to try to stop "the other guy" from getting in because they have some kind of disagreement with how they see things. Simply put, I don't think Obama would have been the favorite if Romney wouldn't have actually made people distrust him more than they did Obama. The familiar fear / issue is something more easily dealt with. Romney raised red flags, even within the Republican party, and he had almost NO connection with the middle or lower classes here. Most people don't even know enough about socialism to even argue about it. What they do know, is that Romney not only isn't like them, but he's openly threatening to do things that go against how they see things, openly flip-flops on things, and has been caught in many lies. He lost himself the race.
I don't know what a "connection" with the middle or lower income has anything to do with being electible or not.
As for Romney looking distrustful, mean, or flip-flopping... do you think he made himself look that way, or the main-stream media?
I for one, do not see any of that in him.
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07:40 PM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
But don't take my word for it, here are the dempgraphics [sic]. Educated people went heavily for Romney.
Way to misrepresent your own statistics! From your link above:
No high School Diploma (3% of electorate) : 64% Obama / 35% Romney High School Graduate (21% of electorate) : 51% Obama / 48% Romney Some College/Assoc Degree (29% of electorate) : 49% Obama / 48% Romney College Graduate (29% of electorate) : 47% Obama / 51% Romney Postgraduate Study (18% of electorate) : 55% Obama / 42% Romney
The only education cohort which Romney carried was the College Graduate (presumably 4-year degree) group.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 11-07-2012).]
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07:52 PM
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dratts Member
Posts: 8373 From: Coeur d' alene Idaho USA Registered: Apr 2001
[Well I'm in the first group. 72, 12+ years education, years of experience in the work force and I didn't vote for Romney. My choices were Gary Johnson first and then Obama second. Romney was a distance third even after Obamas distant second. There goes your demographics.QUOTE]Originally posted by Toddster:
Yes, I saw the dempgraphics. Most men 30 years an older voted Romney. Mopst men 30 years an older have 12+ educations AS WELL as years of experience in the work force. In other words, the people who built this country voted for Romney and the people who benefit from that construction (student, women, and minorities) voted for Obama.
Way to misrepresent your own statistics! From your link above:
No high School Diploma (3% of electorate) : 64% Obama / 35% Romney High School Graduate (21% of electorate) : 51% Obama / 48% Romney Some College/Assoc Degree (29% of electorate) : 49% Obama / 48% Romney College Graduate (29% of electorate) : 47% Obama / 51% Romney Postgraduate Study (18% of electorate) : 55% Obama / 42% Romney
The only education cohort which Romney carried was the College Graduate (presumably 4-year degree) group.
I didn't get either link to work. Even if the link backed the assertion that more educated people voted for Romney, being educated, uneducated, white, purple, employer, employee, male, female old, or young doesn't automatically make one more a more or less qualified voter or give you more or less of a voice in the selection of our government. If the GOP wants to win, they need to run a candidate that can get enough votes, it's as simple as that.
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08:08 PM
carnut122 Member
Posts: 9122 From: Waleska, GA, USA Registered: Jan 2004
If the GOP is curious about which POVs lost them this election, this sort of attitude will probably make the Top 10.
Like you said, Happy Hunting.
I regularly vote for both parties and often neither of the "big 2." I have to agree that the negativity and unwillingness to compromise displayed by the far right on the several blogs that I frequent does very little to make me want to join them.
Way to misrepresent your own statistics! From your link above:
No high School Diploma (3% of electorate) : 64% Obama / 35% Romney High School Graduate (21% of electorate) : 51% Obama / 48% Romney Some College/Assoc Degree (29% of electorate) : 49% Obama / 48% Romney College Graduate (29% of electorate) : 47% Obama / 51% Romney Postgraduate Study (18% of electorate) : 55% Obama / 42% Romney
The only education cohort which Romney carried was the College Graduate (presumably 4-year degree) group.
There you go presenting facts again!
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08:52 PM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20677 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
We have been a socialist country ourselves for a long time. Maybe not as socialist as Europe, but the only reason why we haven't been heavily socialist is because our States is a little buffer against that, allowing some independence.
"Altruism holds that being moral consists in self-sacrificially serving others. Despite its self-destructive nature, altruism is accepted to some extent by almost everyone today. Of course, no one upholds it consistently—at least not for long. Rather, most people accept it as true—and then cheat on it.
All religionists—Christians, Jews, and Muslims—are altruists. Their holy books demand it. All so-called “Secular Humanists”—Utilitarians, Postmodernists, and Egalitarians—are altruists. Their philosophies demand it.
From the Christian, Jewish, and Muslim points of view, the significant “others” are “God” and “the poor.” They are the “others” for whom you should sacrifice. From the Utilitarian point of view, the “other” is “everyone in general” (the Utilitarian principle is “the greatest good for the greatest number”). From the Postmodern and Egalitarian points of view, the “other” is “anyone with less wealth or opportunity than you have”; in other words, “the better off you are, the more you should sacrifice for others—the worse off you are, the more others should sacrifice for you.”
Sacrifice—Sacrifice—Sacrifice. Everyone believes it is the moral thing to do. And no philosopher has been willing to challenge this idea."
from Craig Biddle.
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09:21 PM
Tony Kania Member
Posts: 20794 From: The Inland Northwest Registered: Dec 2008
Plain & Simple he played the country like a fiddle !! He has all the "black" votes, Oprah support, pretty much takes up 40% + of the U.S. Obamacare gains all the welfare & the slackers that plan to go that direction. Marriage amendment will gain him all the fudgepackers & carpetmunchers. "Hope & Change" & "Forward" gets all the liberals & treehuggers. No voter I.D. gets all the illegal's & immigrants. Playing Democrat ( Socialist ) gets all the hardcore DFL farmers. The Auto bailout gets all the auto industry workers. Wallstreet bailout gets all the suits in New York & everywhere else. The bank Bailout just gets a sh!t ton more votes.
So, lets see.........who's left to vote, Hmmmm........ all the hard working REAL U.S.citizens & small business who will be left to pay for it all, or until they're run down into the welfare pool, while he takes another $4.5 million vacation & laughs at the U.S. chuming it up with the rest of his muslim buddies planning to trash America.
Socialist States of America.....how sad
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09:45 PM
mptighe Member
Posts: 3321 From: Houston, TX Registered: Aug 2009
Plain & Simple he played the country like a fiddle !! He has all the "black" votes, Oprah support, pretty much takes up 40% + of the U.S. Obamacare gains all the welfare & the slackers that plan to go that direction. Marriage amendment will gain him all the fudgepackers & carpetmunchers. "Hope & Change" & "Forward" gets all the liberals & treehuggers. No voter I.D. gets all the illegal's & immigrants. Playing Democrat ( Socialist ) gets all the hardcore DFL farmers. The Auto bailout gets all the auto industry workers. Wallstreet bailout gets all the suits in New York & everywhere else. The bank Bailout just gets a sh!t ton more votes.
So, lets see.........who's left to vote, Hmmmm........ all the hard working REAL U.S.citizens & small business who will be left to pay for it all, or until they're run down into the welfare pool, while he takes another $4.5 million vacation & laughs at the U.S. chuming it up with the rest of his muslim buddies planning to trash America.
Socialist States of America.....how sad
Didn't know you were this prejudiced. Nice insults for pretty much every demographic except yours of course. REAL U.S. Citizens = WHITE HETERO MALES? Sorry man but this view is offensive, outdated, and really doesn't have much of a place in society right now. I seriously don't know you, but for some reason I thought more of you.
BTW, unless you're a Native American then you're a descendant of immigrants too, and NOT an original American.
[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 11-07-2012).]
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09:51 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
I would like to say something meaningful, but I really am it a loss. How can some of you be SO sure how this will all end up? You couldn't even guess the next president!
You might want to stop worrying about your foolproof predictions of what "will be", and roll up your selves and get to work in a different direction then what you thought was the only way to get there. Is being right so importent?
If it helps, I even think there's still a fortune to be made out there!
Hell, they just legalized pot here, and need new farmers to do the growin'! I'm thinkin' bout' gettin' me in on some of that! There's cash to be made, if I can keep my hand out of the "cookiejar".......
[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 11-07-2012).]
I would like to say something meaningful, but I really am it a loss. How can some of you be SO sure how this will all end up? You couldn't even guess the next president!
You might want to stop worrying about your foolproof predictions of what "will be", and roll up your selves and get to work in a different direction then what you thought was the only way to get there. Is being right so importent?
If it helps, I even think there's still a fortune to be made out there!
Hell, they just legalized pot here, and need new farmers to do the growin'! I'm thinkin' bout' gettin' me in on some of that! There's cash to be made, if I can keep my hand out of the "cookiejar".......
"Don't get high on your own supply"....I'm sure I heard that somewhere
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10:07 PM
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Wichita Member
Posts: 20677 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
I would like to say something meaningful, but I really am it a loss. How can some of you be SO sure how this will all end up? You couldn't even guess the next president!
You might want to stop worrying about your foolproof predictions of what "will be", and roll up your selves and get to work in a different direction then what you thought was the only way to get there. Is being right so importent?
If it helps, I even think there's still a fortune to be made out there!
Hell, they just legalized pot here, and need new farmers to do the growin'! I'm thinkin' bout' gettin' me in on some of that! There's cash to be made, if I can keep my hand out of the "cookiejar".......
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10:16 PM
Boondawg Member
Posts: 38235 From: Displaced Alaskan Registered: Jun 2003
I voted for Romney and hoped Obama wouldn't win. It didn't turn out that way, but I can't say those who voted for Obama aren't Americans. They are Americans with a different view of what they think America should be then I have. Even so, I don't know that Romney would have been able to really change America more towards my vision of what I think America should be anyways. A President is at the mercy of what the House and Senate send to him. With a Democrat controlled Senate, I don't think the things that need fixed would have made their way to his desk for signing. What we need to do is find what works, but I don't feel either party has the formula completely correct. The Republicans are close but as has been mentioned in this thread already, and I have found several who identify as Republicans here on the board who portray their beleif in this also, the Republicans need to re-evaluate their position on some of the social issues that hurt them. I understand the idea of having principal, but when those prinicpals are based on religious faith, which our Constitutions protects us from persecution there of, they need to let them go. That's not saying everything that some draw from their faith should be forgotten, as I'm sure most Athiest also beleive theft is morally wrong, but do you really want to stand by while the opposite side of the isle continues to take the country somewhere you don't want it to go politically because you done think Sam and Stan or Jill and Jane should be able to bed down with each other in a comitted relationship with legal recognition? Do you really want to continue to watch buisness's being driven out of the country because you don't want someone to smoke a dooby? I just think the right takes to hard a line on some of the social issues and it hurts them.
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11:45 PM
Nov 8th, 2012
htexans1 Member
Posts: 9114 From: Clear Lake City/Houston TX Registered: Sep 2001
I'm mainly hearing a bunch of whining that others have opinions different than their opinions and exercised those opinions through the ballot box as guaranteed by the US Constitution. It's time to accept the outcome and move forward together.
1) The ballot box was not represented. It was trumped by the "Electoral College" and it has been for years.
2) I will unite when hell freezes over. Not the hell in Michigan, the one where there is "satan."
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12:00 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43231 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
I'm mainly hearing a bunch of whining that others have opinions different than their opinions and exercised those opinions through the ballot box as guaranteed by the US Constitution. It's time to accept the outcome and move forward together.
This is like saying all change is good. It is important to know what is defined as forward. Many disagree.
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09:00 AM
Wichita Member
Posts: 20677 From: Wichita, Kansas Registered: Jun 2002
We have been a socialist country ourselves for a long time. Maybe not as socialist as Europe, but the only reason why we haven't been heavily socialist is because our States is a little buffer against that, allowing some independence.
"Altruism holds that being moral consists in self-sacrificially serving others. Despite its self-destructive nature, altruism is accepted to some extent by almost everyone today. Of course, no one upholds it consistently—at least not for long. Rather, most people accept it as true—and then cheat on it.
.
I'm not sure your stance on this. Altruism should be be choice, on a personal level. The states should not be the only reason we arent full on socialist, there should be a buffer between individuals and government there as well.
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09:12 AM
2.5 Member
Posts: 43231 From: Southern MN Registered: May 2007
Didn't know you were this prejudiced. Nice insults for pretty much every demographic except yours of course. REAL U.S. Citizens = WHITE HETERO MALES? Sorry man but this view is offensive, outdated, and really doesn't have much of a place in society right now. I seriously don't know you, but for some reason I thought more of you.
BTW, unless you're a Native American then you're a descendant of immigrants too, and NOT an original American.
Ooooops.....my bad, i guess i was wrong to stand up for the fellow hard working american & business man that works his ass off to support a family AND the lazy welfare & immigrants that voted tat lying socialist in!!!! Cliff can see it & spell it out an ocean away, why cant the rest of stupid america figure it out under thier nose!!!????
[This message has been edited by PURPLE REIGN (edited 11-08-2012).]
