quote Originally posted by Formula88: There was no internet when the Founding Fathers wrote the First Amendment, either. Should we ban or regulate any speech that isn't created on one of these? They certainly couldn't have foreseen in the 18th century how much and how fast individuals can communicate with the rest of the world in the 21st century. If we're going to talk about "need" then we'll want to look at everything a person has and if they truly "need" it. Why should "need" only be applied to one specific right or product? Do you "need" alcohol? It's bad for your health and kills far more every year than firearms do. Where's your desire for sensible alcohol control? Binge drinking is part of Australian culture in spite of government efforts to curb it.

Thank You! If we are talking about NEEDS, then what do you really need in life? I dont need to be eatin doughnuts and drinkin crown royal black n redbull every day. The government could deem that super unhealthy and ban those couldnt they? I like to take road trips to where I used to live in kalamazoo to go to eat at taco bobs during the summer cause I enjoy the food there. The government could see that as a waste of fuel and restrict my mileage on my vehicle cause its unnecessary to waste the recources to drive that far to eat unhealthy food right? I like to go to dairy queen and get a medium cherry mr misty freeze and suck it down and go riding on my motorcycle. Motorcycles could then be deemed dangerous by the government and Im lactose intolerant so I should be restricted from ordering anything dairy per the government for my safety right? This all could happen should we lose our right to defend ourselves from the tyranny and oppression of our current regime. Before I am roasted on my word choice of 'regime', think about it: 'Nowadays the political use the word regime is most commonly[citation needed] applied to any government that imposes strict and often arbitrary rules and laws on the people that are, because of the undemocratic nature of the government, non-negotiable.' Sound familiar? No? Well, we're movein that way, and Im feeling that any day now we are going to have a serious government VS people clash...and somehow, I dont feel the government is going to win too easily...

quote Originally posted by HoMiE_TeLeFrAgGeD: I dont feel the government is going to win too easily...

They have so far....

quote Originally posted by User00013170: They have so far....

Unfortunatley for us, you are correct sir... >_>

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: The gun nuts seem to be in constant fear right? If you have not travelled the world and seen life outside the USA don't even bother responding as you are living in a bubble. You would be just making a fool of yourself. Oh, a trip to Canada is not considered travelling the world.

I have lost of guns, I have zero fear of society or others, I am mentally prepared for anything except the death of my family.

I do live in a bubble and I am ok with it. My Mexican friends are not happy to visit home because they fear the police almost as much as the gangs, the police stole all their cash. I might have got lucky when I told the local thug in Mexico that I already spent my money on the dancing girls and showed him an empty wallet So, I am ok with my bubble and I have enjoyed my trips to Canada. I like going into sporting goods stores and asking where the gun section is.

I keep a "simi"auto pistol nearby, locked up but, nearby. I can hit a quarter sized target reliably at about 40 feet. I keep it there should I need to help another. At least for now I would do fine against most other humans in hand to hand but, that time is quickly passing. When I get to 60+ I would like the choice to carry.

When I had asked about getting a carry permit, the local sheriff deputy refused to give me an application. Yea, prove I am sane enough to own a gun to get a permit? Must be from the same Sheriff department! How about if someone records that I am a mental concern first because here we are innocent until proven guilty?

Bhaa, have you traveled in the USA? I have had very few problems. The exceptions outside of primary school have been a few aggressive bums / homeless, one overly prison tattooed large mexican, one group of 12 mexicans(and the only time that I have a gun and was glad to have it, 12 to 2 would have sucked) and several incidents with black men that I am now sure is a California bay area untraveled racism on their part thing. Not to bad a run for 46 years. I have never fired a gun in anger(response to a threat) as many incidents happen every day in the USA but, we have a choice.

quote Originally posted by htexans1: Someone from Australasia talks about guns in America. No problem. Here is my take. I have guns. semi automatics, pistols and rifles. Shotguns even. They are for protection and sporting uses. Why do I have them? Because I can have them. I use them for protection and for educational purposes. Am I afraid as a gun owner? Yes I am. I am afraid of the mess I am going to make on my woman's new entry hall carpet when I shoot whoever is breaking into my home. Of course I wonder with fascination why foreigners seem to be interested in what is clearly an internal American matter. lol Being in the military here shows one an appreciation for arms, I have no problem passing that appreciation on to our younger generation either.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Because I can. I don't have to get into penis envy or explain why I need a magazine fed shotgun with a 20 round drum. Because I can My constitution did not say anything about hunting, sporting, or defensive, as reasoning. Austrailian gun laws are just that, Austrailian. Your history is different, your culture is different, your mannerisms are different, your laws are different, as is any statistic you care to put forth the two will be dissimalar. Bottom line yours work for you over there, if you like them more power to you. In the mean time I'll enjoy all of mine for all legal purposes and laugh at those like you who think that you know more than the thousands of lawyers over time who have litigated against my right to own my firearms and have failed. Do you honestly think you are smarter than every anti gun lawyer, senator, congressman, etc ever to live in the USA?. I have them and don't have to explain to you why I need it. If I wanted to use my Mini Draco (AK-47 pistol) to hunt deer with, as long as it's legal.....it is BTW........I don't have to explain why ( I prefer my bolt gun for hunting by the way). If I wanted to use a Saiga 12 guage to trim branches and trees.........well you get the point. I don't need them to repel hordes of zombies as well. But I like shooting and reloading, especially competitively with my brother, and collecting different guns So I have several. You cannnot have my 30 rounders and drums either they are mine and so long as I play by the current laws I get to keep them. And since I keep them in my safe under my secure supervision away from my kids I feel I have done my part.

[This message has been edited by slims00ls1z28 (edited 01-06-2013).]

Automatics are just illegal. You can get a permit, but they are very expensive and VERY difficult to get. Criminal gangs do have illegal ones. They have auto AKs, Mac10s and Uzis. The weapon of choice for American criminals is a gun, any kind of gun. No gun control laws have ever worked here, they only affect those that obey the law in the first place. Criminals care less about whats legal or not...theyre committing crimes in the first place. The government could pass a law making every gun...even BB and paint guns illegal and take every one they can find and throw the owners in jail.....yet the criminals will ALL still have them. They execute you here for illegally committing murder and yet there are hundreds of murders every day anyway.

Officials obviously never figured out controls dont and wont work ever at all. They cant even define any kind of weapon to ban it.

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: I am going to use my country as an example. All the sane people are quite free to own guns, including hand guns.

Oh geeze... I did finish reading your post, but you don't know what you claim to know. All of the rifles you talk about are unavailable to normal citizens in fully automatic form.

I'm sure Australia gives you ever right to criticize the US, as you would have if you lived here too. So I'll give you some advice... you guys need to take care of your fatties first before you worry about our guns. You guys are dying left and right from heart disease and every other condition. You guys have the fattest population on the ENTIRE planet.


Todd

quote Originally posted by 82-T/A [At Work]: You guys have the fattest population on the ENTIRE planet. Todd

So, now we have gone from gun control to gum control.

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: There are people in this country who would sacrifice their children before even considering the possibility that free access to anything that fires a projectile may be a bit of overkill.....

Oh, and don't forget about those "holier than thou" military guys that sacrificed themselves. Must be some exceptional nutjobs there am I right?

[/sarcasm]
Brad

quote Originally posted by williegoat: So, now we have gone from gun control to gum control.

"The gum that chews you!"

Although gums go off by themselves alot easier and more frequently than guns.........

quote Originally posted by Fats: Oh, and don't forget about those "holier than thou" military guys that sacrificed themselves. Must be some exceptional nutjobs there am I right? [/sarcasm] Brad

You're comparing military engagements with people on the street?

Yup....must be an exceptional nutjob indeed.

quote Originally posted by AusFiero: I don't feel I need a gun to survive. I am not scared of just living my life. The gun nuts seem to be in constant fear right?

I don't need a gun to survive but I might. I am not scared just living my life nor am I in constant fear, because I do have a gun.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Let's see. Military engagements with people on the street. Perfect comparison. How do you feel about all those dead Muslims on the streets of Syria killed by military engagements with people on the street ?

Well.....that didn't take long.

Would you like to go for two?

I've got a lot of respect of Aus for a number of reasons and when it comes to certain topics, I listen to his advice with great interest.

On this topic, I care not what any person that is not an Amercan citizen thinks. I don't really care what any expatriot American living somewhere other than the USA think either.
This is our issue, no one elses. Doesn't matter to me which side of the debate they land on.

I don't own a hand gun, a rifle or weapon of any kind that is safe to fire. I do have a 100 + year old single shot shot gun that has been passed down through the family that I would consider using as a club should the need arise but, the fact is, I don't currently own any viable firearms. And yet, due to the move to restrict or eliminate my right to own a weapon of choce as provided by our constitution, I am now in search of a semi-auto pistol. Why, because it is my right to own one, not because I fear for my life but because I can. Although the current market may keep me from purchasing such a weapon, it seems the price of one has sky rocketed since the Libs got their motor running. I have no problem with those Americans who don't want to own or possess a weapon but, that doesn't mean they can take away my right to own one.

Whether or not anyone that is not an American citizen understands or agrees with me is of no concern. It's not any of their business as far as I'm concerned.
Aus, while I do respect your opinion on many things, this is not something you have any say in or on. You can condemn all you want, that condemnation falls on deaf ears here.
Have a nice day.

Edited: BTW, this is not meant as an attack on Aus, just making sure that he understands where I am on this. To each or you, have a great day and support the US Constitution.

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Ron
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
So, what do ya think, are we there yet?

[This message has been edited by blackrams (edited 01-06-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Doni Hagan: Aus......you must be in a truly masochistic mood today. You've questioned the biggest religion in America by far.....Gun Worship. There are people in this country who would sacrifice their children before even considering the possibility that free access to anything that fires a projectile may be a bit of overkill.....pun completely intended. Let's not forget the subliminal aspect of the issue...... "Big guns, big trucks.....it's a shame about your willy though. " Anyway, Jim, have at it if you've got some disposable free time or are simply in the mood for a s#1tload of cyber-abuse. Talking about it here is an exercise in mental masturbation. And if your gonna have a wank, at least get more pleasure out of it.

LOL Doni. You have always been good for a smile.

As for most comments I am not seeing a lot of sense. Stats don't lie. The USA is killing itself with guns. The world cares, but apparently the USA doesn't.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I am not scared just living my life nor am I in constant fear, because I do have a gun.

Me either, and I do not.
I do not own a fire extinguisher, either.
But I DO have a spare tire.

It's all about percentages.
There is a far greater chance that I will have a flat, then a fire or a gunfight.
I've known lots of people who have had a flat, but I have never known anyone that needed a fire extinguisher or had to use a gun on someone.

The world I walk around in doesn't require me too be armed to be safe.

P.S. And before the dogs of war are loosed upon me here, I love guns.
I actually want everyone to have as many as they want of any type they want.
No bans, no limits, no infringement what-so-ever.
No regestration, no serial numbers, no tracking.
Auto, semi-auto, expanding, non-expanding.
Open carry, concieled, loaded, chambered, cocked & ready to rock.
The works.

It would be very interesting to see how it played out.

[This message has been edited by Boondawg (edited 01-06-2013).]

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I've got a lot of respect of Aus for a number of reasons and when it comes to certain topics, I listen to his advice with great interest. On this topic, I care not what any person that is not an Amercan citizen thinks. I don't really care what any expatriot American living somewhere other than the USA think either. This is our issue, no one elses. Doesn't matter to me which side of the debate they land on. I don't own a hand gun, a rifle or weapon of any kind that is safe to fire. I do have a 100 + year old single shot shot gun that has been passed down through the family that I would consider using as a club should the need arise but, the fact is, I don't currently own any viable firearms. And yet, due to the move to restrict or eliminate my right to own a weapon of choce as provided by our constitution, I am now in search of a semi-auto pistol. Why, because it is my right to own one, not because I fear for my life but because I can. Although the current market may keep me from purchasing such a weapon, it seems the price of one has sky rocketed since the Libs got their motor running. I have no problem with those Americans who don't want to own or possess a weapon but, that doesn't mean they can take away my right to own one. Whether or not anyone that is not an American citizen understands or agrees with me is of no concern. It's not any of their business as far as I'm concerned. Aus, while I do respect your opinion on many things, this is not something you have any say in or on. You can condemn all you want, that condemnation falls on deaf ears here. Have a nice day. Edited: BTW, this is not meant as an attack on Aus, just making sure that he understands where I am on this. To each or you, have a great day and support the US Constitution.

Thanks for the balanced reply Rams. I like an open discussion on things where we can all have our opinions.

quote Originally posted by blackrams: On this topic, I care not what any person that is not an Amercan citizen thinks. I don't really care what any expatriot American living somewhere other than the USA think either. This is our issue, no one elses. Doesn't matter to me which side of the debate they land on. Whether or not anyone that is not an American citizen understands or agrees with me is of no concern. It's not any of their business as far as I'm concerned.

How many jackass arrogant Americans think they have the right to tell the rest of the world how they should do things? How many times have we shoved ourselves into situations that were actually none of our business? How many times have we told the rest of the world that they and their policies were inferior to us and ours? We invite criticism and are deserving of the reciprocation. Aus has some valid points, and was met with rubbish responses for the most part. I wish people here would stop trying to speak for American values and viewpoints. I've said it before, I sincerely hope our brothers and sisters in other countries don't think we're all the way that some here portray us to be.

[This message has been edited by mptighe (edited 01-06-2013).]

quote Originally posted by mptighe: I've said it before, I sincerely hope our brothers and sisters in other countries don't think we're all the way that some here portray us to be.

The ones I have met do.

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: The world I walk around in doesn't require me too be armed to be safe.

Nobody needs a gun... until they do.
Same for that spare tire or fire extinguisher.
Odds are you'll never need a gun to defend yourself. That's a good thing.

It is a percentages game, though. You're very right about that.
That's one reason I consider the assault weapons bans so ridiculous. They're used in a statistically insignificant percentage of violent crimes. True, they are particularly horrifying when it happens, but it's not a common occurrence. You're more likely to die in a traffic accident or be beaten to death with a baseball bat, and there's no outrage or concern over banning cars and baseball.

quote Originally posted by mptighe: How many jackass arrogant Americans think they have the right to tell the rest of the world how they should do things? How many times have we shoved ourselves into situations that were actually none of our business? How many times have we told the rest of the world that they and their policies were inferior to us and ours? We invite criticism and are deserving of the reciprocation. Aus has some valid points, and was met with rubbish responses for the most part. I wish people here would stop trying to speak for American values and viewpoints. I've said it before, I sincerely hope our brothers and sisters in other countries don't think we're all the way that some here portray us to be.

Bubba,
May I call you Bubba? Maybe I wasn't quite clear, I simply don't care what any Non-American Citizen thinks about this issue. As far as what happens on other issues concerning us versus who ever on what ever topic. I might agree with you on some, all or none. I don't get to decide quite a few things around here much less for this country. If we were discussing foreign aid that we give out to influence other countries, then I'd be almost 100% in agreement, I don't think we should but, that's a horse of a whole different color. This is strictly an American Constitutional issue. Nothing else.

Your turn.

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Ron
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
So, what do ya think, are we there yet?

my reason to own and carry a gun is the same reason i keep a rubber in my wallet. Id rather have one and not need it than need it and not have one.

The thread title asks if the average American citizen understands what gun controls are. I don't know if I qualify as an average citizen, but I understand quite well the control mechanisms on my guns, and how to operate them.



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[This message has been edited by Blacktree (edited 01-07-2013).]

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: my reason to own and carry a gun is the same reason i keep a rubber in my wallet. Id rather have one and not need it than need it and not have one.

Not me, it's depressing.

quote Originally posted by pontiackid86: my reason to own and carry a gun is the same reason i keep a rubber in my wallet. Id rather have one and not need it than need it and not have one.

Not real sure about the gun thing but, I'm pretty sure that condom has a shelf life, ya might wanna consider changing out supplies just in case.

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Ron
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
So, what do ya think, are we there yet?

Question, Aus. Why do you even care?

Or are you just stirring the pot?

Don't like or agree with our right to bear arms? Fine, don't come here. I promise you, no one will give a single **** if you never darken our doorsteps.

Love or hate the second, until it's repealed/amended it's not up for debate. Least of all from a Bogan on the wrong side of the planet.

~Tyler

So...Aus likes stats. Here are some for him.

quote Originally posted by avengador1: So...Aus likes stats. Here are some for him.

Well yes, all that is true, but there are laws, regulations, and initiatives (of various kinds), about drinking, drinking and driving, and also about what hospitals and physicians have to do in order to avoid malpractice incidents. Laws, regulations and initiatives, already in place, and subject to continual revision in the search for improvement. As is (or should be) the case with firearms..

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 01-07-2013).]

quote Originally posted by mptighe: How many jackass arrogant Americans think they have the right to tell the rest of the world how they should do things?

Ironic. This thread was started by an Australian telling us Americans how we should do things (more or less).

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I've got a lot of respect of Aus for a number of reasons ...

As do I. I have no qualms whatsoever with his post on this subject.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: As do I. I have no qualms whatsoever with his post on this subject.

I agree Cliff, I don't have an issue with him or anyone else having an opinion, I simply don't think it matters because it's not their issue.

Nothing personal Aus. I surely don't have a qualified opinon about the issues down under. But, I also am not informed on those issues, whatever they may be, nor is it my place to tell anyone in your country how to do what ever.

Ron

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: Well yes, all that is true, but there are laws, regulations, and initiatives (of various kinds), about drinking, drinking and driving, and also about what hospitals and physicians have to do in order to avoid malpractice incidents. Laws, regulations and initiatives, already in place, and subject to continual revision in the search for improvement. As is (or should be) the case with firearms..

So what yo are saying is with all these laws in concern with drinking and driving and medical malpractice we should reduce numbers? Should we reduce the numbers of doctors?Reduce the types of medical fields? Reduce the amount of alchohol sold?Reduce the types? I believe the prohabition was a complete failure and reducing the amount of doctors out there won't help malpractice. Although with less doctors the idiots that do stupid things and wind up in the trauma center might thin the herd a bit, you know longer lines at the ER less beds,more people bleeding out in the hospital waiting room. Makes sence.

Reducing the number of guns won't help. Limiting law abiding citizens will not help. It will create a strain on law enforcement because crime rates WILL rise! It's been proven already! More crime= police thinned out responding to more calls. Criminals will reap the reward of fewer armed law abiding citzens. Want to change the statistics on gun crime? How about the death penalty for those who commit a crime with a gun. No three strikes you are out crap either. That should slow criminals down real quick. Also enact castle laws so people can use deadly force in thier own home with out fear of being sued or convicted. When criminals realise the rewards are not worth the risk they will not act. Now for the nutjobs........
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ARCHIES JUNK IS FASTER THAN SHAUNNA'S JUNK
12.3 is faster than a 13.2

[This message has been edited by FIEROPHREK (edited 01-07-2013).]

quote Originally posted by blackrams: I don't have an issue with him or anyone else having an opinion, ...

Depends on the opinion Ron. The assertions that we are nut jobs, want to cling to our guns and Bibles, etc, and other non logical unsupportive opinions I take offense to.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Depends on the opinion Ron. The assertions that we are nut jobs, want to cling to our guns and Bibles, etc, and other non logical unsupportive opinions I take offense to.

Well, although you may be right, I don't take offense to that. I take that as an over reaction and a internet thing. Doesn't really matter as far as I'm concerned.

Heck, we both know I'm nuts and you still like me. I think you're crazier than a pet coon and I still like you. Although, I do wonder about your wife's taste in men.

------------------
Ron
A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury.
So, what do ya think, are we there yet?

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: Well yes, all that is true, but there are laws, regulations, and initiatives (of various kinds), about drinking, drinking and driving, and also about what hospitals and physicians have to do in order to avoid malpractice incidents. Laws, regulations and initiatives, already in place, and subject to continual revision in the search for improvement. As is (or should be) the case with firearms..

The laws and initiatives you speak about are being actively enforced and pursued, as they well should be.

Not so when speaking about the very strict and comprehensive firearms laws, NOW ON THE BOOKS, and where is the mental health system in this country?

quote Originally posted by cliffw: I am not sure what you mean Doni but sure, why not ? You never did answer the question.

Sorry....I don't see the relevance between shootings on the streets of American cities and shootings by the military during what is defined as "wartime" in the Middle East....unless it was simply used as a means of injecting Muslims in to what was heretofore a non-sectarian discussion. That usually occurs when it becomes necessary for one to utilize a "fallback" tactic because I've managed to get under someone's skin.

The only problem with that, as I see it, is after you or someone else goes there, the discussion becomes akin to trying to discuss quantum physics with Ernest T. Bass.

Did that address your inquiry?

[This message has been edited by Doni Hagan (edited 01-07-2013).]