Safety-wise, which is better? For all cars in general. Not just Fieros. In an asphalt parking lot. I occasionally volunteer at a local church for their oil change ministry, which does oil changes for widows, single moms, and wives of deployed soldiers. The variety of cars is large. Small sedans, large sedans, SUV's, pickup trucks, etc. On the ramps vs jack stands matter, the guy who runs the oil change ministry and I have a difference of opinion. I consider the Fiero community to be fairly competent as mechanics (we have to be), so I thought I'd poll you guys to get your thoughts. I'll share mine later. For tall vehicles like SUV's & pickups, it's really no issue since they have enough ground clearance for an oil change with all 4 tires on the ground.

I prefer ramps for stability as long as they don't slide when you're driving up them...but jacks are still very safe. Ramps generally have a larger base footprint. Both may damage the asphalt. Make sure it's level ground regardless.

[This message has been edited by Neils88 (edited 11-02-2013).]

For oil changes?
Ramps with out a doubt. Drive on and set the brake then go to work.
With the jack you waste time looking for the proper lift point and pumping, and with the jack it might be too big to fit under the lip of some cars. Then once it is on jack you have to take time to put stands under.

I personally own both ramps and a jack. The only time I use the jack anymore is if the wheel has to come off i.e. brake jobs. Anything else its on ramps, they're rated for 12K and have a slow incline so anything can drive up them.

Automatic - ramps
Stick and low clearance cars get jack stands.

[This message has been edited by Jake_Dragon (edited 11-02-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Jake_Dragon: Automatic - ramps Sick and low clearance cars get jack stands.

YUP !!!....I have burned a lot of clutch plate trying to get sticks up ramps.

I second the motion on the manual transmission and will add anything 2WD (when trying to get the front end up). I tried to drive the front end up ramps on my Fiero once, it will just push them around all day. My wife's AWD Jeep does the same thing. The vehicle isn't moving fast enough for the AWD system to put power to the front wheels so I have to put it in low range to get the front wheels to pull it up the ramps.

Jack stands worry me anyways, even when the other set of wheels are chocked. Maybe I have an irrational fear of a car falling on me...

Ramps ? Easier, quicker. Cheaper, no jacks or shimming needed.
Oil changes, yeah. "Cept, you have to consider the drain plug/oil sump drainage angle.
You ain't gonna do a brake job with ramps.

quote Originally posted by Formula Owner: ... in an asphalt parking lot

Asphalt, especially on a hot day, is a problem with both jacks and ramps. Small feet and sharp edges will sink into the relatively soft asphalt. At autocross events we're instructed to put a piece of plywood on the asphalt large enough to cover the foot print of jacks and/or ramps.

I use custom made ramps that have less of an angle on the ramps than most store-bought units. Driving up them with my 5-spd Fieros is easy.

quote Originally posted by cliffw: Yep, and you have been thrown off horses, owned by women, .... I kid.

Not quite clear, cliff.

Has MEM been thrown off horses?
Has MEM been owned by women?
Or, has MEM been thrown off horses owned by women?

Three of these things are not like the others.

[This message has been edited by heybjorn (edited 11-02-2013).]

I find ramps are bulky. I gave away my steel ramps, which were about 6' long.

I use a hydraulic jack and stands for safety. However, I do have a 5 ton chain hoist and I am kind of tempted to use it for oil changes.

But, the jack and stands are a little quicker

Arn

Ramps are great for tall cars. No car I have owned recently will drive up on ramps. All seem to hit the ramps before the tires. If you can get a car on the ramps, they work great. But anymore, I jack up the car and put in jack stands. I still don't like sliding under the car.

Ive had ramps and threw them in the dumpster. Ive never been able to drive up them without them sliding at least on one side. I had the steel ones and drove my minivan up them...lots of ground clearance. One flipped up and tore the running board and fender flares off the side.

Steel or plywood plates under the stands will prevent damage to blacktop. Never had any luck with ramps. Stands are safer and more versatile. You can't change tires or do brakes and suspension work on ramps.

quote Originally posted by tebailey: Steel or plywood plates under the stands will prevent damage to blacktop. Never had any luck with ramps. Stands are safer and more versatile. You can't change tires or do brakes and suspension work on ramps.

Plywood, never ever, ever put steel plate under a jack stand, it can slip off the plate, plywood on the other hand will allow the stand to sink in and make it more stable.

bring both, drive up on the ramps, check the position of the drain plug, you may have to use the jack stands on the back to get the drain plug in the right place to let it drain the oil pan completely. also bring a full size sheet of plywood to keep the jack from sinking into the pavement when you have to use the jack, as well as it makes a good surface to side under the car with or without a creeper. but I would also bring the creeper as well. you also should bring 4 jack stands just in case you need to get the entire car off the ground or if you both want to get going at it at the same times.

Know anyone you can borrow a big fork truck from, think boat dealer? best thing since the invention of the napkin. long forks, 6 to 8', the ones for boats are about 20' long and will go right under any car and lift it right up to what ever height you want. put a tire with no rim between the forklift mast and the car to prevent damage to the car in case you run into the car. I actually did that once, my ex-brother in law owned a boat restoration shop with one, we picked my 77 LTD right up in the air and walked under it and just changed the oil. if you pick it up that high you will need a high drain pot like they use at garages though.

Steve

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Technology is great when it works,
and one big pain in the ass when it doesn't



Detroit iron rules all the rest are just toys.

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 11-02-2013).]

quote Originally posted by heybjorn: Not quite clear, cliff. Has MEM been thrown off horses? Has MEM been owned by women? Or, has MEM been thrown off horses owned by women? Three of these things are not like the others.

HEY !!!!......I resemble that remark !!!!.....yeh, all 3 of them....

I use my ramps all the time. 5 speed manual is the easiest for me to get up. wife's grand Prix just clears them. Even get my dads 2003 beetle on them. Never had them slide, and only threw them when someone accelerated to hard. two feet method a little brake torque slowly release brake and they climb with ease. Lowest car i had up on ramps is a trade off between the beetle and Chrysler sebring convertible. The ramps I use are the Plastic ryno ramps there light weight not to big and easy to store.

I have used both. If I'm not doing suspension work, I tend to prefer ramps. I have to put a board in front of them in order for the car not to hit before the wheel meets the ramp.
If the ramp tries to slide, you can put a piece of carpet under the slope, so that the tire is on the carpet and the slope at the same time.

We have Rhino ramps at work for putting hitches on cars/ compact trucks....I've used them exactly ONCE. I put "the blue giant" (electric forklift) under the frame rails, lift it up and drop the jackstands under it. Takes all of 3 minutes...

Out at the farm, I had a standard scisor jack, cut the handle off that and use the air ratchet on it to lift the fieros.....60 seconds and I had a stand under a corner.

I not only have access to big fork-lifts, I also have access to a 40ton hydraulic lift. I've been a fork-lift mechanic for over 30yrs. No problem lifting any car, or large truck.

quote Originally posted by tebailey: I not only have access to big fork-lifts, I also have access to a 40ton hydraulic lift. I've been a fork-lift mechanic for over 30yrs. No problem lifting any car, or large truck.

I gotta get you a pic of Bertha....the spread has to be 10 feet between forks if we go to the limits both sides, we carry 30-40 foot beams on it before they are cut to lenght.....and it is a puppy to drive. Easier than the little Cats or Toyotas......

Speaking of which, ever had a handfull of liquid propane ?.....I had to change a tank today,and missed a bit of ice/ freezing rain pellet on the seal (had to carry the damn thing 750 yards across the yard) so got some blow-by when I hooked it up. DAMN !!!!!!!!---that sheet is COLD on already frozen fingers from an Ontario November rain

[This message has been edited by MidEngineManiac (edited 11-02-2013).]

I use a set of plastic/rubber ramps. Advantage is the ramps have a rubber block on the underside of the approach end allowing the ramp to bite into the pavement as the car rolls up it. I believe they are called Rhino Ramps. They work great for oil changes and the like. For the rest of the work, cradle etc., I use jack stands capable of 3000# apiece. The stands are very sturdy and I have no issue getting under them, but do back them up with the floor jack as a extra safety measure. Looking forward to the day I can get a drive on 4post lift. Tired of crawling around on the floor.

Have used steel ramps in the past, they are garbage. They tend to slide easily and never seem very stabile. For oil changes the Rhino Ramps work great!

[This message has been edited by Kevin87FieroGT (edited 11-02-2013).]

I prefer jack stands. They are more versatile and when I place a vehicle on them, I can see exactly where they are. With ramps, they slip on occasion and I am not always on the proper spot each time.

If you are handy with wood, you can build your own ramps. I have seen some nice ones on other car forums. One nice set I saw, the guy build the ramps that went onto raised platforms that gave him 3' of clearance under his car to work. All it took was a bunch of 2" X 6"'s and some plywood to cover up the sides and make it look nice.

quote Originally posted by Fiero_Fan_88: For oil changes? Ramps with out a doubt. Drive on and set the brake then go to work. With the jack you waste time looking for the proper lift point and pumping, and with the jack it might be too big to fit under the lip of some cars. Then once it is on jack you have to take time to put stands under. I personally own both ramps and a jack. The only time I use the jack anymore is if the wheel has to come off i.e. brake jobs. Anything else its on ramps, they're rated for 12K and have a slow incline so anything can drive up them.

X2, my LT1 Trans Am with the M6 makes it up the ramps with ease, every once in a while one ramp will slide forward. So much easier than lugging out a jack (or 2 for lifting both sides of the car) and stands. I like my harbor freight plastic ramps, light and easy to use. Unfortunately if I lower the car they'll be useless, they barely clear as it is. Good ramps though for $40.

http://www.harborfreight.co...ety-chock-67722.html

quote Originally posted by nitroheadz28: Unfortunately if I lower the car they'll be useless, they barely clear as it is.

More than most people are will to spend but you can buy race ramps. All Sorts of lengths and heights for low profile care.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref...=UTF8&qid=1383459933

How about a combination of ramps and jackstands? For those with lowered setups I picked up a set of short ramps off Amazon and drive my car up on them first then use my jack. These ramps get you up just high enough to get the jack under. Think I paid less than $75 for a set of 4, probably make a short set out of wood if you'd want. I prefer to buy something pre-made that suits my needs and spend my time tinkering with my car



I'll jack the car up and then slide my higher ramps under the car or install jack stands based on what I am working on. Comes down to personal preference . . .

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"There is no more formidable adversary than one who perceives he has nothing to lose." - Gen. George S. Patton
http://www.flowbenchtech.com

quote Originally posted by Kevin87FieroGT: I use a set of plastic/rubber ramps. Advantage is the ramps have a rubber block on the underside of the approach end allowing the ramp to bite into the pavement as the car rolls up it. I believe they are called Rhino Ramps. They work great for oil changes and the like. For the rest of the work, cradle etc., I use jack stands capable of 3000# apiece. The stands are very sturdy and I have no issue getting under them, but do back them up with the floor jack as a extra safety measure. Looking forward to the day I can get a drive on 4post lift. Tired of crawling around on the floor. Have used steel ramps in the past, they are garbage. They tend to slide easily and never seem very stabile. For oil changes the Rhino Ramps work great!

My experience is almost identical. I had a set of steel ramps. My Fiero air dam would hit first, and just push the ramps. I gave those away. I now have a set of Rhino ramps with the rubber block on the underside. They work perfect on asphalt or textured concrete. They will occasionally want to slide on a slick garage floor. My opinion is that, ramps involve more risk in getting the vehicle off the ground. You have to be competent enough to drive smoothly up the ramps without going too slow or too fast. But once the vehicle is off the ground, I FAR prefer being under a vehicle on ramps vs one on stands, especially when doing oil changes on a variety of cars. It's not always obvious where the jack points are, and where to put the stands. On one car, we had to re-locate the stands after I discovered that one of them prevented me from getting the drain pan in position. On another car (a minivan), what looked like a good jack point was actually an engine mount. At home, unless the wheels have to come off, I use ramps. The problem at this oil change event was that the person who delivered the cars to each station was not skilled enough to get the cars up on ramps safely. He drove all the way over the ramps one time. That was the end of using the ramps. My opinion is that, safety-wise, a car properly up on ramps, vs one properly on stands... the ramps are safer. For safety, IMO we should not have stopped using the ramps. We should have stopped using the unskilled driver.

This was my opinion before. I did some googling to see what other opinions were on this, and my opinion is still the same.

quote Originally posted by Formula Owner: He drove all the way over the ramps one time. That was the end of using the ramps. My opinion is that, safety-wise, a car properly up on ramps, vs one properly on stands... the ramps are safer. For safety, IMO we should not have stopped using the ramps. We should have stopped using the unskilled driver. This was my opinion before. I did some googling to see what other opinions were on this, and my opinion is still the same.

Bolt stops or I should say BIGGER Stops on the end of the ramps, maybe, still like the boat forklift better for all the different cars you may encounter, any church members own a boat dealership that might be willing to bring it over for the day, or even allow you to do the service at their place?

Here are some examples of just how big they are and how long the forks are, making them perfect for the job you have in mind.

https://www.google.com/sear...UoAQ&biw=960&bih=500

Plus you might get them to have a person at the boat place who knows what they are doing offer his servise driving the truck. hey it is for a good cause. The first picture on that page is like the one I used when I worked at a marina as a kid, note the storage bays behind the truck, I had to put boats into those for winter storage. I got real good, real quick.

Edit to add.

I thought you were in southern Alabama and closer to lakes or the Gulf, but after doing a Google Earth search see the only thing you are close to is churches, hell you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a church down there. So how about a church member who is a car dealer that has a lift donating the use of his lift for a day to do this, say a Sunday when he wouldn't normally be open anyway?


Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 11-03-2013).]

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I thought you were in southern Alabama and closer to lakes or the Gulf, but after doing a Google Earth search see the only thing you are close to is churches, hell you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a church down there. So how about a church member who is a car dealer that has a lift donating the use of his lift for a day to do this, say a Sunday when he wouldn't normally be open anyway? Steve

I think someone said that we serviced 83 cars yesterday, and we finished up at about 12:30 pm. We had about 14 stations running. Plus, the Women's Ministry were there. They provided food and counseling if the "customers" wanted it. It's a ministry opportunity that probably wouldn't work at a shop. Plus, who would do the servicing? Would the shop owner have to pay his employees for a day (maybe overtime)? Would the shop owner allow volunteers to operate all his equipment? I see all sorts of potential problems. I can sort of see the justification for removing the ramps. They DO present potential problems, but so do jacks and jack stands. To me, overall, it's a wash. But for those who went under the cars (that included me), I think that ramps win. There were a couple of professional mechanics there (including a shop owner) volunteering their time.

I used ramps when I replaced my CAT on the Formula... Made me a LOT less nervous...

I think I used them once on the front as well - I jacked the car up, slid the ramps halfway under the tires, and then drove it up. To get it down, I jacked up the front, and slid the ramps away.

quote Originally posted by Formula Owner: I think someone said that we serviced 83 cars yesterday, and we finished up at about 12:30 pm. We had about 14 stations running. Plus, the Women's Ministry were there. They provided food and counseling if the "customers" wanted it. It's a ministry opportunity that probably wouldn't work at a shop. Plus, who would do the servicing? Would the shop owner have to pay his employees for a day (maybe overtime)? Would the shop owner allow volunteers to operate all his equipment? I see all sorts of potential problems. I can sort of see the justification for removing the ramps. They DO present potential problems, but so do jacks and jack stands. To me, overall, it's a wash. But for those who went under the cars (that included me), I think that ramps win. There were a couple of professional mechanics there (including a shop owner) volunteering their time.

Glad to hear it worked out for you and all those you helped, would have volunteered myself for something like that, but have never seen it here, although I am not a member of any of the local churches, but they usually post things like that on the boards out front.

And a to all those you all helped with a needed service.

edit to add,

I hope you saved all that used oil and gave it to someone who has a waste oil heater in there shop.

Steve

[This message has been edited by 84fiero123 (edited 11-03-2013).]

quote Originally posted by 84fiero123: I hope you saved all that used oil and gave it to someone who has a waste oil heater in there shop. Steve

I don't really know what happens to the used oil. There were about 30 collection jugs there that we dumped our drain pan into. I don't know what they do with it afterwards, though.

If you were in MI, I'd take the old oil. We have a Clean burn furnace in the shop. Winters get pretty cold up here, and it's nice to have a warm shop to work in with out the boss screaming about the heating bills.

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I gave away my steel ramps....

I did too. I almost never used them; they just took up space in the garage. And when I did use them, it seemed like they were always in the way, like I had to slide under the car from just one direction (between the ramps). I've always found jackstands to be more versatile.

Be a man. Just use a jack.

EDIT

Meant to say, one time I drove my Fiero OVER a set of ramps. Be leery of that.

[This message has been edited by ls3mach (edited 11-03-2013).]

quote Originally posted by ls3mach: Be a man. Just use a jack.

Just in case someone thinks you're serious... Do NOT just use a jack.

Everything else is expensive, Patrick, and the car came with a jack.

This is how I change mine, but not very mobile. However, removing the grates can become a pain.



I gave up on the ramps a long time ago. When I need to do something quick, (like that ever happens), I just pull out the floor jack and stands.

I'd love to have a pit like that.

quote Originally posted by FieroTony: I gave up on the ramps a long time ago. When I need to do something quick, (like that ever happens), I just pull out the floor jack and stands.

I feel the exact opposite. If I don't need to get the wheels off, I can get a car on and off a set of ramps quicker than I can with a jack and jack stands.

quote Originally posted by Formula Owner: ...Plus, the Women's Ministry were there. They provided food and counseling if the "customers" wanted it....

My god! What were you doing to their cars that they would need counseling!!!