Usually I don't post on these things...but this conversation is absolutely ridiculous. What is the point of this post? That a small portion of a religion is full of crappy people? Have you every heard of Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas? If your trying to point out that there are crappy people in a religions your beating a SUPER dead horse. Paedophilia is awful. Everyone agrees. There are also paedophiles in muslim, christian, and jewish faiths. There are also texts in the Bible that are seen as super backward and immoral, and I'm a Christian. So again what's the point of this? How about we move on.


Brian

quote Originally posted by bmac: Usually I don't post on these things...but this conversation is absolutely ridiculous. What is the point of this post? That a small portion of a religion is full of crappy people? Have you every heard of Westboro Baptist Church in Kansas? If your trying to point out that there are crappy people in a religions your beating a SUPER dead horse. Paedophilia is awful. Everyone agrees. There are also paedophiles in muslim, christian, and jewish faiths. There are also texts in the Bible that are seen as super backward and immoral, and I'm a Christian. So again what's the point of this? How about we move on. Brian

Agreed. It was the point I was trying to make as it seemed the OP was a slam against one specific faith.

And while I agree on a percentage basis Islam probably has a more radicalized segment, to paint all it's followers with the same brush is ridiculous and bigoted.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 11-26-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Wichita: That's strange. Maybe I'm wrong, but you and many others wave the "God and Country" flag and point out how evil Muslims are. That is assuming that many of you believe that Christians are better people than everyone else, publicly stated or not.

What would be the point?
If someone points out what they think is a problem, or gives me advice, it is not my reaction to think or say to them, "you just think you are more righteous than me".
Looks like we are moving on. You could start a thread about righteousness.

[This message has been edited by 2.5 (edited 11-26-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: you really have to wonder what their vested interest is Arn

our vested interest is the Truth, about the story you posted.
i didnt call or see anyone call you a liar, just wrong, which you where..

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: If you want to run interference for perverts you are welcome to do it.

like i said, and Tony said.. Obtuse.. You don't seem interested in truth, just in justifying your own beliefs about a certain segment of people.. You know full well nobody here is, or wants too, defend sick pedo's of any faith or lack thereof.. But you don't care because we called out the B.S. in the story you posted instead of reenforcing your prejudice against muslims by praising your beliefs.

not all muslims are pedo's regardless of what you want too believe.. Just like not all catholic priests love too rape little boys.. And not all non-religious people are pedo's and gay.. Like Stan believes..

There are all types of people doing all types of bad things in all kinds of religious and non religious groups.. Get used too it..

im sure another "Obtuse" reply, is coming my way but thats ok..

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 11-26-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Jonesy: There are all types of people doing all types of bad things in all kinds of religious and non religious groups.. Get used too it..

Black, white, democrat, republican, christian, muslim, man, woman, etc. etc. etc.
It's people that do bad things.
Why is it that people that so loudly preach "personal responsibility" seem to have no problem grouping the many in with the actions of the few?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Why is it that people that so loudly preach "personal responsibility" seem to have no problem grouping the many in with the actions of the few?

My answer: 1) It's easy, and 2) it doesn't take a lot of intellectual horsepower.

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: My answer: 1) It's easy, and 2) it doesn't take a lot of intellectual horsepower.

My question then becomes; Do people that do that know that?
Do they honestly believe what they say, or are the just being deceitful to feed there perceived/desired superiority?

It just don't make any sense if they know it's not true but they pretend it is.
I mean, to what end does it serve them?

Isn't the truth the best thing to have on your side?

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Isn't the truth the best thing to have on your side?

Depends on your agenda..

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Do people that do that know that?

I would tend to say, "Yes," for the most part.

quote Do they honestly believe what they say, or are the just being deceitful to feed there perceived/desired superiority?

It's virtually impossible to know. Does a car salesman (new or used) actually believe everything he/she tells you to make the sale? Does a politician actually believe everything he/she says in public speeches? Sociopathy isn't like an on/off switch. It comes in degrees, and unfortunately it tends to be progressive ... often beginning in childhood and becoming more pronounced with age and practice.

Every sociopath I have ever managed to recognize ... admittedly only a small number ... has always left a collection of stunned people in his/her wake saying, "None of what he (she) said was true, but I think he (she) may actually have believed it himself (herself)." Someone else said to me, "He told the same lies so many times that I think he started to believe them himself." With the really good ones (who tend to possess better than average intelligence and thus tend to get away with it) you can never really be sure, but it doesn't matter to them anyway. For a true sociopath there is literally no difference between telling the truth and lying; it's all the same to them. I realize it seems bizarre to normal folks, but that's the way it is, and that's why (as you may have read) most sociopaths can usually pass a polygraph (a.k.a. "lie detector") test with flying colors. I have read that up to 10% of adult Americans regularly exhibit some manifestations of sub-criminal sociopathic behavior.

Of course, some chronic liars aren't necessarily true sociopaths ... they just enjoy deceiving people and exercising power over others. Others know they're lying but do it anyway, simply because it makes them feel important. Sad but true.

quote Isn't the truth the best thing to have on your side?

I think the truth is always the best thing to seek ... even when it isn't "on your side." More than one attorney has given me the same wise advice: "Always tell the truth. That way you'll never have to worry about getting your story straight."

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 11-26-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Does a car salesman (new or used) actually believe everything he/she tells you to make the sale? Does a politician actually believe everything he/she says in public speeches?

Who knows, but the one common thread is they want you to believe it.
And that's probably the simplicity of it; All that matters to them is that you buy it.
True, false, whatever.
The object is to sell it.

Sigh...

quote Originally posted by Boondawg: Who knows, but the one common thread is they want you to believe it. And that's probably the simplicity of it; All that matters to them is that you buy it. True, false, whatever. The object is to sell it. Sigh...

Like i said, it depends on the persons agenda..

You have to be careful when you "accuse" someone of some wrong doing, not only could you get yourself into trouble if you turn out to be wrong, but you could literally ruin a person's life, or add a incorrect stigma against a certain group of people, and do some real social damage.

Now I personally do not believe Arn had any deceitful intentions by posting that article. Trying too convince everyone that Muslims in general are all pedophiles. But he obviously did believe the story in the article.. And i do believe he did more research on the topic of child marriages in Muslim countries. Do that kind of research on any religion or culture and you will no doubt find stories and evidence of it, but we all know, it isn't a singular practice done by Muslims alone, as we know it happens basically everywhere, by all kinds of people of all kinds of faiths, or lack there of.

But its also obvious that he didn't do further research on the particular story he posted in his original post. So he read it, believed it, and then publicly posted it for everyone to see. (it was already a public story, but you get what i mean.) Doing something like that can be dangerous, if you don't know 100% that the person or people your accusing are 100% guilty of what your accusing them of. Especially something like pedophilia..

Imagine if this story was slightly different. Gonna use you Boon as an example, cause i know you won't mind. Say Boonie heard a story from one of his neighbors that the guy down the street was "into" little kids, because someone else thought they saw him "eying" their little daughter. That they think he is a pedophile. And Boonie, out of concern for his and his neighbors children, tells everyone in the neighborhood that this guy is a pedophile, and tells everyone to keep their kids away from his area, which would seem like a natural reaction.. Well another parent gets too scared, and the cops get called, the guy down the street is arrested and questioned, they search his home, go through all this personal things, his computer ect.. Find zero evidence that this guy was a pedophile at all. And turns out, he's not at all..

Well, too late.. Damage done.. Sure the guy didn't do anything wrong, and does not have to worry about getting in trouble. But socially, hes done. Its already been spread around that hes a pedophile, does not matter that it wasn't ever true, the stigma has been placed, and he will have to wear it for as long as he lives there. Only choice is to move to where nobody knows who he is, and even then, a stigma like that could easily follow him. This persons life is forever damaged in a huge way, simply because Boonie heard a story second or third hand, and didn't bother to find out if it was the truth..

Something similar happened to a man who lived on my street when i was growing up. His daughters used to baby sit me as a kid, along with alot of other kids in the neighborhood.. Mr. Finley.. Didn't know him well, he didn't interact with the kids much, but he was always nice. Older guy, in his early 60's, and a retired dentist. But one day one of the kids Amy used to baby sit ended up saying that Mr. Finley "touched" him in a inappropriate way.. Well obviously it turned into a huge thing. Cops where at his house, i don't remember if he was actually arrested, but i do know he was taken "down town" for questioning. Word of it spread fast, within a few days the whole neighborhood knew the story, even all the kids at school knew about it, so no doubt their parents did as well.. Mr. Finley sexually abused that boy.. That was the story anyway, thats what everyone "thought" they knew was true.. Well a few weeks go by, and turns out the kid lied about it, he admitted it. Made the whole thing up. Don't remember the story of why the kid made it up, but it turned out he did. Mr. Finley never touched him, was all a big lie..

Well when it was found out that it was a lie.. People had a real hard time accepting that as truth.. They had no problem believing that Mr. Finley was a pedophile, that news spread around like wild fire and people held on to it.. The truth, well that didn't work its way around as well.. The stigma stuck, Mr. Finley was forever branded a child molester. I think they lasted almost a year before they finally moved.

Gotta be 100% sure that what your saying is truth before you spread it around. Especially something as horrible as pedophilia.

[This message has been edited by Jonesy (edited 11-26-2013).]

"I would like to identify two areas for change: 1- creating new fiqh rules and 2- reclaiming existing fiqh that are actually very empowering for women. Creating new fiqh is legitimate because, after all, all fiqh is by definition the product of fallible human legal reasoning– it is the jurist’s best understanding of God’s Law, but it cannot claim with certainty to actually be God’s Law. In the meantime, if a fiqh rule no longer works for us, such as the presumption of unilateral divorce only by the husband, or presumptions of child custody based only on the age and sex of the children, there is room for re-interpretation of the relevant source texts to develop new fiqh rules that serve us better today.

Child marriage is another example where the past ijtihad was performed with presumptions that do not fit our presumptions today. That is, even though there is hadith stating, for example, that “the virgin is to be asked for her consent,” nevertheless, all of the schools of Islamic law allow the father to arrange a marriage for his minor children without their consent. This applies to both boys and girls, but it is more permanent for girls because boys have a unilateral right of divorce. Why does the father have this right, even though the hadith says consent is required? Because the scholars considered marriage commitments to be one of the many things that parents arrange for their children on their behalf, until they are old enough to do so themselves, just like managing their money, their education, and so on. This might have been a reasonable assumption for older times and places, but it doesn’t fit with our sensibilities today.

So this is a logical place for new ijtihad on this question, developing a stronger fiqh rule prohibiting child marriage. . . ."


That's an excerpt from a panel discussion involving Dr. Asifa Quraishi that was held sometime (probably not too long ago) at the Islamic Center of Southern California.

So if anyone is really all that passionate about this issue, it seems to me that the most effective way to get involved would be to contact a representative of their closest mosque or Islamic center and make an inquiry about how someone (like the OP) could make a personal contribution to the "right side" of this issue. Globally. Since I assume that there are already laws prohibiting child marriages in Canada and (of course) the U.S.

Wouldn't that make better sense than posting any more of these faked-up "news reports" from the quasi-lunatic fringes of the blogosphere--like this other deceptive report that surfaced here just a few days ago--to which any Muslim could justifiably respond: "See, all you non-believers want to do is to make up lies about Islam."..?

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-27-2013).]

quote Originally posted by rinselberg: Wouldn't that make better sense than posting any more of these faked-up "news reports" from the quasi-lunatic fringes of the blogosphere--like this other deceptive report that surfaced here just a few days ago--to which any Muslim could justifiably respond: "See, all you non-believers want to do is to make up lies about Islam."..?

Great post.

And yes it would make much more sense. I am told that it didn't matter how fake the OP was though as it represents a problem. I wonder if the Author of that post would feel the same if it was a false post about something he felt close to? I doubt it.

A few members did not like the pics I used to demonstrate this issue. I asked them to supply a pic which was more appropriate.

No one did, so here is the pic of Yemeni men marrying children, not teenagers, not young women, children.



This pic was taken by Stephanie Sinclair of National Geographic

Notice the little girl in the background

Cynthia Gorney wrote this

quote These were things we learned in a Rajasthan village during Akha Teej, a festival that takes place during the hottest months of spring, just before the monsoon rains, and that is considered an auspicious time for weddings. We stared miserably at the 5-year-old Rajani as it became clear that the small girl in the T-shirt, padding around barefoot and holding the pink plastic sunglasses someone had given her, was also to be one of the midnight ceremony's brides. The man who had led us to the village, a cousin to Mr. M, had advised us only that a wedding was planned for two teenage sisters. That in itself was risky to disclose, as in India girls may not legally marry before age 18. But the techniques used to encourage the overlooking of illegal weddings—neighborly conspiracy, appeals to family honor—are more easily managed when the betrothed girls have at least reached puberty. The littlest daughters tend to be added on discreetly, their names kept off the invitations, the unannounced second or third bride at their own weddings.

and

quote Child marriage spans continents, language, religion, caste. In India the girls will typically be attached to boys four or five years older; in Yemen, Afghanistan, and other countries with high early marriage rates, the husbands may be young men or middle-aged widowers or abductors who rape first and claim their victims as wives afterward, as is the practice in certain regions of Ethiopia. Some of these marriages are business transactions, barely adorned with additional rationale: a debt cleared in exchange for an 8-year-old bride; a family feud resolved by the delivery of a virginal 12-year-old cousin. Those, when they happen to surface publicly, make for clear and outrage-inducing news fodder from great distances away. The 2008 drama of Nujood Ali, the 10-year-old Yemeni girl who found her way alone to an urban courthouse to request a divorce from the man in his 30s her father had forced her to marry, generated worldwide headlines and more recently a book, translated into 30 languages: I am Nujood, Age 10 and Divorced.

This is a legitimate problem and I have posted the countries who have "under 18" marriages. This statistic does not represent the pedophilia issue, but simply young, by western standards, brides. Most of us remember Jerry Lee Lewis marrying his 13 year old cousin. He was subsequently black listed in the music industry for about 10 years.

Both the American and Canadian governments have been struggling to eliminate polygamy, and under age marriages, but, both are strenuously investigating and prosecuting persons involved in paedophilia and child **** .

In places in the Middle East, and Southeast Asia, no such help is available for the young victims. Again, the list of the top ten, is dominated by Islamic countries compiled by pbs

Child Marriage Around the World
Percentage of girls marrying before the age of 18
1 Niger 76.6
2 Chad 71.5
3 Bangladesh 68.7
4 Mali 65.4
5 Guinea 64.5
6 Central African Republic 57.0
7 Nepal 56.1
8 Mozambique 55.9
9 Uganda 54.1
10 Burkina Faso 51.9
11 India 50.0
12 Ethiopia 49.1
13 Liberia 48.4
13 Yemen 48.4
15 Cameroon 47.2
16 Eritrea 47.0
17 Malawi 46.9
18 Nicaragua 43.3
18 Nigeria 43.3
20 Zambia 42.1

While some forum members seem more intent on attacking me over a pic, there are millions of people being victimized and that is the issue. It isn't being made up, it isn't fiction, it is a sad fact.

Arn

[This message has been edited by Arns85GT (edited 11-27-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: A few members did not like the pics I used to demonstrate this issue. I asked them to supply a pic which was more appropriate. No one did, so here is the pic of Yemeni men marrying children, not teenagers, not young women, children. This pic was taken by Stephanie Sinclair of National Geographic Notice the little girl in the background Cynthia Gorney wrote this This is a legitimate problem and I have posted the countries who have "under 18" marriages. This statistic does not represent the pedophilia issue, but simply young, by western standards, brides. Most of us remember Jerry Lee Lewis marrying his 13 year old cousin. He was subsequently black listed in the music industry for about 10 years. Both the American and Canadian governments have been struggling to eliminate polygamy, and under age marriages, but, both are strenuously investigating and prosecuting persons involved in paedophilia and child **** . In places in the Middle East, and Southeast Asia, no such help is available for the young victims. Again, the list of the top ten, is dominated by Islamic countries compiled by pbs Child Marriage Around the World Percentage of girls marrying before the age of 18 1 Niger 76.6 2 Chad 71.5 3 Bangladesh 68.7 4 Mali 65.4 5 Guinea 64.5 6 Central African Republic 57.0 7 Nepal 56.1 8 Mozambique 55.9 9 Uganda 54.1 10 Burkina Faso 51.9 11 India 50.0 12 Ethiopia 49.1 13 Liberia 48.4 13 Yemen 48.4 15 Cameroon 47.2 16 Eritrea 47.0 17 Malawi 46.9 18 Nicaragua 43.3 18 Nigeria 43.3 20 Zambia 42.1 While some forum members seem more intent on attacking me over a pic, there are millions of people being victimized and that is the issue. It isn't being made up, it isn't fiction, it is a sad fact. Arn

Wow Arn that's really amazing but of course it flies in the face of the pics you posted and of course this Threads title..... which singles out one religion and doesn't mention Marriage only pedophilia .

I think people know exactly what your post was attempting to do despite all your attempts to make it seem like you were talking about the larger issue of Child Marriage throughout the world. You can't change the title of the thread which shows your true intent.

Also I am disappointed that you felt the need to edit your original posted pictures but leave in the post where you said my actions support pedophilia. I have politely asked that you remove such slanderous words and you have refused, I will ask once more before going further.

Please rephrase or remove the offending statement towards me. I do not in any way support pedophilia, child marriage or any other form of child abuse, neither by my words, actions or any other way and the fact that you have accused me of otherwise is outrageous and slanderous.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 11-27-2013).]

I am glad you have clarified your position on the issue Newf

quote Please rephrase or remove the offending statement towards me. I do not in any way support pedophilia, child marriage or any other form of child abuse, neither by my words, actions or any other way and the fact that you have accused me of otherwise is outrageous and slanderous.

Notwithstanding your position, you did say also about me,

quote NOPE he says lots of things on here and DOES NOT do his research. That does not mean he isn't great guy and hard worker etc. just that he SOMETIMES posts and seems to believe If he bothered to research he could have found the truth about the he posted.

I did my research before I posted, and I do this all the time. I used a generic pic as an illustration which you did not like the source, and the information I posted is accurate.

I also said

quote You are so interested in trying to discredit and that you provide a convenient dodge for the perpetrators and are complicit in covering their trail. Shame on you Newf

When you take an issue and change the issue to be an attack on the poster and the motives of the poster, instead of discussing the issue, you do provide a very good distraction to try to destroy the point. That obscures the point of making people aware of the paedophiles who marry children. You may not even realize you are doing it so I'll give you that. Did you provide a distraction? yes. Did you attack me for posting a pic and insinuate I was quoting a false report? instead of contributing to the discussion? yes. Was I justified in pointing this out? yes. You could have pm'd me and told me about the story behind the original pic instead of picking a public fight.

Let's be clear about who performs wedding ceremonies. Clergy. The majority of child marriages are overseen by Imams. I have not seen a Christian minister or priest do it but I have seen stories of cultists doing it and mainstream Christians are opposed. Hindus marry children to each other. I frankly don't fully understand the rationale, but it is different than the Yemeni pic I posted.

So how about 'tit fo tat' You withdraw your unjust statements about me and I will respond.

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I am glad you have clarified your position on the issue Newf When you take an issue and change the issue to be an attack on the poster and the motives of the poster, instead of discussing the issue, you do provide a very good distraction to try to destroy the point. That obscures the point of making people aware of the paedophiles who marry children. You may not even realize you are doing it so I'll give you that. Did you provide a distraction? yes. Did you attack me for posting a pic and insinuate I was quoting a false report? instead of contributing to the discussion? yes. Was I justified in pointing this out? yes. You could have pm'd me and told me about the story behind the original pic instead of picking a public fight. Let's be clear about who performs wedding ceremonies. Clergy. The majority of child marriages are overseen by Imams. I have not seen a Christian minister or priest do it but I have seen stories of cultists doing it and mainstream Christians are opposed. Hindus marry children to each other. I frankly don't fully understand the rationale, but it is different than the Yemeni pic I posted. So how about 'tit fo tat' You withdraw your unjust statements about me and I will respond. Arn

I know you're but hurt cause you were proven wrong Arn but if you did your research as you claim then surely someone as careful about their sources as you would have checked into where your linked pictures came from and made sure that they were accurately depicting what you entitled the thread correct?


And I'm sorry my statement of "NOPE he says lots of things on here and DOES NOT do his research. That does not mean he isn't great guy and hard worker etc. just that he SOMETIMES posts and seems to believe" offended you but I see nothing incorrect about it. Can you point something out that is incorrect?


You think my statement and your slanderous and disgusting statement are the same or even similar? Wake up.

[This message has been edited by newf (edited 11-27-2013).]

So, Arn, now that you posted an authentic photograph of this practice (adult Muslim male married to Muslim female child) from Yemen, where do we go from here? I participate in the various discussions here in O/T because I find it a recreation. I'm not trying to save the world, or even improve the world in the smallest way, aside from giving some of the other forum members something unique (my POV) to think about.

Can you think of a better idea than the suggestion that I offered?

"If anyone is really all that passionate about this issue, it seems to me that the most effective way to get involved would be to contact a representative of their closest mosque or Islamic center and make an inquiry about how someone (like the OP) could make a personal contribution to the "right side" of this issue. Globally. Since I assume that there are already laws prohibiting children as marriage partners in Canada and (of course) the U.S.."

I just offered some evidence that there are, indeed, mainstream Islamic centers (mainstream, as far as what mainstream Islam comprises in the United States) that share your concerns:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...ML/103985-3.html#p91

Do you think that there are Islamic centers in Canada that have similar, progressive views (like the Islamic Center of Southern California) about what should properly define and bound the institution of Islamic marriage and the Islamic conception of gender equality?

[This message has been edited by rinselberg (edited 11-27-2013).]

Remember I posted

In Canada, we have Muslims who actually oppose Middle Eastern Islamic practices

OTTAWA, ONTARIO--(Marketwired - Nov. 20, 2013) - Eight Progressive Canadian Muslim Organizations are launching a Coalition in Parliament Hill, Ottawa on Thursday evening, Nov 21 where Minister Jason Kenny and Minister Tim Uppal shall be the chief guests. The Coalition of Progressive Canadian Muslim Organizations (CPCMO) is an umbrella for progressive Muslims across Canada who uphold Canadian values especially separation of religion and politics, gender equality, one law for all, freedom of expression and education against radicalization.

I not only have friends who are Muslim, but I also worked on more than one political campaign to get a Muslim man elected. The issue I have discussed with Muslims of my acquaintance is that the greater Muslim community is literally afraid to take on the radicals in their mosques. This movement to fight against things like Sharia Law and Terrorism is slow in developing but it is growing.

There is absolutely no doubt there are young girls victimized by forced marriages, and it is evident in which countries this is happening.

Newf said

quote You think my statement and your slanderous and disgusting statement are the same or even similar? Wake up.

and

quote Why not just man up and admit the original article (and pics) you posted are ? If you then want to discuss Child marriage or Pedophilia in different segments of society, have at it.

I quoted no article associated with the pic.

Child marriage and pedophilia are an overlapping issue. Child marriage to an adult IS pedophilia.

I interpreted the errant attack on me, (falsely accusing me of quoting an article I did not make reference to), as running interference for the perverts

I'm still trying to figure out what is "slanderous and disgusting".

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: I interpreted the errant attack on me, (falsely accusing me of quoting an article I did not make reference to), as running interference for the perverts I'm still trying to figure out what is "slanderous and disgusting".

You be stressed (beyond what's usual for us) or something like that? What you just said about "running interference for the perverts.."..?

C'mon man!

Jonesy said

quote But the actual story you posted is fake, false, faux, not true.

in other words, "you were lying"

Newf agreed with the old

quote

then

quote Why not just man up and admit the original article (and pics) you posted are ?

In other words I was being called a liar. Sorry, if I guy says that to me in person, he might not like the consequences.

So is Newf just picking a fight to have one, or some other reason? The only other reason I could see was to obscure or divert attention from the truth.

Now I see he is saying he believes there is a problem with adult perverts marrying child brides. Good.

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: In other words I was being called a liar.

Saying that something you posted is not true is not the same as calling you a liar. You became a liar when you refused to acknowledge the mistake and, instead, doubled down on it. I think doing so actually distracted from your stated intent.

quote ... if I guy says that to me in person, he might not like the consequences.

I just love Internet tough guys!

[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 11-27-2013).]

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Jonesy said In other words I was being called a liar. Sorry, if I guy says that to me in person, he might not like the consequences. So is Newf just picking a fight to have one, or some other reason? The only other reason I could see was to obscure or divert attention from the truth. Now I see he is saying he believes there is a problem with adult perverts marrying child brides. Good. Arn

If you bothered to read I have been saying it all along. Also if you bothered to read I said you failed to do your research and posted pictures associated with a very well known BS story.

What site did you link pictures from Arn?

I "picked a fight" as you put it, I would say pointed out an unfair generalization, in your post to show that it's not JUST Muslims that marry children as your post asserted.

Also I don't think anything I said comes close to accusing another member of

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: You have not stated you support pedophilia, but your actions speak otherwise. Arn

I find this statement worded poorly at best and slanderous at worst. Again you show your immaturity by not admitting you made a mistake (editing your picture without explanation) and not retracting your disgusting comment. Oh well thanks for exposing your true self more and more Arn.

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Child marriage and pedophilia are an overlapping issue. Child marriage to an adult IS pedophilia.

When people blur the lines of pedophilia with discussions of "under 18" offends me. The under 18 child definition started recently and is crap. I was 19 and had an under 18 girlfriend that I was ready to marry after a few conditions that finally were never met. It is creepy to me when a 40 something is interested in a early 20s but, somehow not illegal. I do not have a problem with 70 year old guys hooking up with 30 somethings because the 30 somethings are mature enough to understand the relationship. There is still the creepy factor.

I think if you toss out the pedophile stick to the definition: about the sexual interest in prepubescent children. For the primary sexual interest in 11–14 year old pubescents, see Hebephilia. For the primary sexual interest in mid-to-late adolescents (15–19), see Ephebophilia.

quote What site did you link pictures from Arn?

Google Images, and no I didn't check the source, my bad.

quote You have not stated you support pedophilia, but your actions speak otherwise.

Now that I know what you are talking about, sure, I'll say the phrase "speak otherwise" could have been put better.

Probably "smacks of protecting the guilty" would have been closer.

I am glad you have not only not stated you support pedophilia , but have since stated

quote No one is denying that Child Marriage is a debatable and in some cases sickening (IMO) practice.

Great!

quote It was the point I was trying to make as it seemed the OP was a slam against one specific faith.

Exactly correct. I was pointing out that the majority of the problem is in Islamic cultures, plain and simple.

There are lots of stats to back up that view, and do I have Muslim friends I would say the same thing to? yes.

Instead of pasting the poster for his choice of pics, starting a minor war, and trying to assert yourself as some sort of 'white knight' you could have simply addressed the issue of the day and pointed out the website that originated it. I would have appreciated that effort.

If we both have the same view of child marriage, we should be agreeing, not fighting.

Look at the list of countries again and the percentages. Read the article in National Geographic. Go to the sites such as the one you posted, http://www.girlsnotbrides.org/ and you will see the vast majority of the 50 countries they list have significant Islamic populations. Agreed, your are right that the practice is not confined to Islamic communities, but the worst of it is in those communities. By "worst" I am referring to the marrying of pre-pubecent girls to mature men.

Here is the web list

list of countries

Arn

quote Originally posted by Arns85GT: Google Images, and no I didn't check the source, my bad.

Why were you image searching for pedophilia?

It seems (and I address the OP--Arn--in particular) that all of this begs the obvious question:

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...ML/103985-3.html#p97

quote Originally posted by FlyinFieros: Why were you image searching for pedophilia?

I wasn't