So here's the question: What's it worth? As best as I can tell, it's the LAST documented parade lap (flag lot) car from the '84 Indy 500. I've posted here & on the Fiero Indy page & no one has come forth saying they have any documentation on thier car.
The documentation that goes with the car is:
1) Remainder of the Flag Lot sticker (#36) left on the windshiled.
2) The envelope the Flag Lot sticker came in.
3) Note that came with the sticker telling what gates to enter etc.
4) A reproduction of the Flag Lot Sticker.
6) The original Indiana Motor Vehicle Certificate Of Registration, showing plate number 36.
6) The original new car invoice.
7) Original state inspection paperwork.
8) Original Pontiac service procedures book.
9) "Important Matainance Information" book. Eight pages, color pictures.
10) Cardboard fire warning sign (no joke!).
11) Factory lugnut instructions.
12) Factory "Parking Brake Lever Operating Instructions".
13) Original Owner's Manual. About 1/4" thick; 53 pages.
14) Burgandy "Fiero" book, with pocket inside rear cover. Introductory sentence says: "This book provides introductory "enthusiasts" information and "do it yourself" procedures for the 1984 Fiero 2M4.". Fourty pages, including (but not limited to) info on the mid-engine design, spaceframe, & body panels; and specifications.
15) Factory "1984 Fiero Maintenance Schedule" book (16 pages).
16) Factory "1984 Fiero Maintenance Schedule - REVISED" book (14 pages).
17) Pamplet "The Uniroyal Hideaway Spare".
18) The "1984 Fiero Warranty And Owner Assistance Information" book (23 pages).

It's an automatic with sunroof, electric windows, all 3 map pockets, etc. - a tad over 100,000 miles. Runs & drives great, of course. A real pleasure to cruise around in.
Speculation is that in *nice* shape, being the last DOCUMENTED Parade Lap car, it would bring $25,000 + at a Barret-Jackson auction. It would need a little work to bring that, including some paintwork, a floor mat, a seat bolster repair, one plastic rocker trim, & detailing (especially the engine compartment & suspension).
Of course, I'm not looking for anything near that.
I can email pics to SERIOUS buyers or for someone to post here. Or later I might can upload them to my homepage servers to link to (due to a recent format I have to re-install the FTP software to do that).
Any offers?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tha Driver:

So here's the question: What's it worth?

with 100,000 + miles on the car its lost 90% of its collector value, especially being un-restored, in 20-30 years that value may come back, however i wouldnt be surprised for the car to get an interested buyer around $2500-5000 Indy's just dont sell near as well as expected.

matthew

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: it would bring $25,000 + at a Barret-Jackson auction.

ummmm......yeah.....we are still in the process of getting the VINs of the parade cars, so sorry, right now I am NOT convinced that yours is a documented one. I know you hae all this paperwork and the sticker (which you can buy on a number of websites) but I know that someone (not saying you are doing this) can make a car appear to be something it is not. While we do not know for certain how many parade cars that were at the track, we do know that there were more than 36, so this car is NOT the last documented car...sorry.

I agree that with over 100K and what sounds like quite a bit of restoration work to be done you may be lucky to get $2000 for the car.

Take the time and work on it some if you think you can get more for it....but not many get their $$$ back that they have put into a Fiero and unfortunately an Indy is not that different from any other Fiero from that aspect.

The Indy may end up being worth more than other Fiero models...but not right now, and it will have to be a mint low-mileage version to ever get anywhere near the B-J price you posted.

Just put a price you are wanting to sell for and see if you get any bites. One of my personal pet-peaves when I am car shopping is when a seller will not put a price on the car.

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver:being the last DOCUMENTED Parade Lap car, it would bring $25,000 + at a Barret-Jackson auction.

I have some experience with Indy prices, I'd guesstimate you have one too many zeros.

------------------
4 Indys, 1 is A/C delete
85 GT speedster project
86 GT Corvette Yellow
2 88 Formula T-Tops
91 Grand Prix GTP, 3.4 TDC, 5 Speed
01 GMC "1 ton of fun" Crew Dually Diesel
08 Ford Escape

However......
"Time is the most precious and perishable of my possessions."

Buy IRM, again! at www.fierowarehouse.com

quote Originally posted by CenTexIndy: ummmm......yeah.....we are still in the process of getting the VINs of the parade cars, so sorry, right now I am NOT convinced that yours is a documented one. I know you hae all this paperwork and the sticker (which you can buy on a number of websites) but I know that someone (not saying you are doing this) can make a car appear to be something it is not. While we do not know for certain how many parade cars that were at the track, we do know that there were more than 36, so this car is NOT the last documented car...sorry. I agree that with over 100K and what sounds like quite a bit of restoration work to be done you may be lucky to get $2000 for the car. Take the time and work on it some if you think you can get more for it....but not many get their $$$ back that they have put into a Fiero and unfortunately an Indy is not that different from any other Fiero from that aspect. The Indy may end up being worth more than other Fiero models...but not right now, and it will have to be a mint low-mileage version to ever get anywhere near the B-J price you posted. Just put a price you are wanting to sell for and see if you get any bites. One of my personal pet-peaves when I am car shopping is when a seller will not put a price on the car.

I agree with everyone: none of the Fieros are bringing what they should as a collector car.
But what I mean as the last DOCUMENTED parade lap car is not that it was the last in line or made, but that it's the ONLY one left with documentation. The Original Indy registration proves that it was a parade lap car, and NO ONE else has come forth saying they have documentaion for theirs. IF this is true, it's a "one of one" peice of Indy Racing History. The folks at B-J love things like that....
I do plan to "restore" it (it needs very little) in the future, if no one makes a good offer. But yes it'll have to be very detailed to bring top dollar (whatever that is).
The '88 T-Top on the other hand, is a different story. I've made a final offer to one person to sell it to them, & if they don't want it, tonite I'm using it for target practice & then cutting it up for scrap. I'm SOOOOO tired of spending my time emailing people & sending pics & talking to them on the phone only to have them change their mind at the last minite (after wanting it soooo badly). I'm tired of wasting my time.
But it's OK if no one wants the Indy. It's a fun car to drive & everyone loves it so I'll keep it & enjoy it. In fact, if someone wanted it for an investment. I was thinking of buying another to drive; I just don't really want to drive around TOO much in a one-of-one collector car...

Edit...

Not worth the effort

[This message has been edited by ohioindy (edited 08-12-2008).]

quote Originally posted by ohioindy: Edit... Not worth the effort

No? No words of wisdom? No enlightenment? You give up on me?

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: No? No words of wisdom? No enlightenment? You give up on me?

I know a lost cause when I see one.
Oh…I sold your Indy floor mats that you bashed Todd for.
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/087545.html
I made 75 bucks on the deal.
Just figured you wanted to know

[This message has been edited by ohioindy (edited 08-12-2008).]

Tha Driver:
Where in "S.E USA do you live?
Describe the physical condition (interior and exterior) of your Indy in detail please-pm if you prefer.
Describe the starting, running, driving condition in detail please. Pm if you prefer.
Don

Oh goodness...Don is thinking about TRIPLETS!!!!!!

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Tha Driver: Where in "S.E USA do you live? Describe the physical condition (interior and exterior) of your Indy in detail please-pm if you prefer. Describe the starting, running, driving condition in detail please. Pm if you prefer. Don

The car is now kept on my Ga. property, near Commerce (about 10 miles from the Atlanta Dragway).
Interior is damn near perfect, except for the (famous?) hole at the heal in the driver's floor mat, a little wear (split) in the driver's bolster (on the seat back), & a broken right side trim peice at the rocker. Oh & a couple spots on the leather (driver's armrest) that needs dying.
The exterior has the usual stress cracks in the front bumper, & a few chips here & there, including a couple that skinned small areas of the red stripe.
Starting, running, & driving is A-OK. Starts right up every time, shifts out great, runs smooth. Handles & drives great too. If it needs anything mechanical, it *might* be a master cylinder (althopugh it stops fine too).
I love this car, but if I can get a reasonable amount for it (if it IS truely the last documented Indy Flag Lot car), it would give me some money to go toward my project cars. I REALLY want to get the SBC mid-engine VW Cabriolet (With '88 Fiero suspension/running gear) up & running asap.
Want pics? Email address? (PM it to me)
Thanks,
Paul

Hello, getting back to the parade car story. I did run across a fella with an Indy at the 25th who had documentation showing his car was a parade car. He had the license plate number 121 and a sheet stating that his car was #121. What sequence number car is yours on FPC and if you don't mind I would like to get more information on your documentation.

As far as price, I have been into this for the last two years and spotted a lot of cars for sale and the price varies greatly. It all depends on what someone is willing to pay. I would say for a car that you can drive 2k is a good place to start with.

John

A/C work?
Cruise work?
Both headlight motors work correctly?
Will it follow a straight line down the hiway with little driver input?
Headliner condition?
Any chips in the windshield?
Electric windows work OK? Any scratches in the door windows?
Condition of the dew wipes?
Rad fan operate correctly?
Condition of the carpet in the rear storage compartment?
Tail light lens condition?
Oil & filter change interval while you have owned the vehicle?
Decals on the car and accurate?
Indy wings on the car?

pm sent

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-12-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Johngee: Hello, getting back to the parade car story. I did run across a fella with an Indy at the 25th who had documentation showing his car was a parade car. He had the license plate number 121 and a sheet stating that his car was #121. What sequence number car is yours on FPC and if you don't mind I would like to get more information on your documentation. As far as price, I have been into this for the last two years and spotted a lot of cars for sale and the price varies greatly. It all depends on what someone is willing to pay. I would say for a car that you can drive 2k is a good place to start with. John

I wish he would post in my thread. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/090219.html I'd like to know the truth about how many are left. What kind of "sheet"?
I don't know if it's even listed on FPC.
2K? Naw, I'll drive it.

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: I bashed todd fior his attitude, & calling me a bastard & other names in his FIRST POST when I was trying to work things out. EVERYONE - including you - AGREED that the mat was not as he described.

Every word of that statement is a lie. You never tried to "work things out". And I sent you half a dozen emails before calling you a bastard you bastard. And Ohio NEVER agreed with you and neither did anyone else who actually saw the mats in real life.

You really need help.

$25,000 for an Indy with 100,000 miles and a hole in the driver mat? And you have the nerve to stand by that fairytale that I had unrealistic expectations on the value of my floor mats?

Now the guy who eventually bought them (and actually saw them in real life, unlike you) is telling you that you didn't know what you were blabbering about and that he actually made a huge profit selling my mats to yet ANOTHER happy buyer...And you can still sit there and defend your BS?

EVERY thread you have ever started begins with some horse **** about how everyone is out to get you. This lame thread about the Police, the judges, the insurance companies, the DMV, and everyone else on Earth ganging up on poor little you is all ANYBODY needs to read to discover who has the attitude problem.

https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/058334.html

The first words out of his mouth to the judge were:

quote [The Judge] found the paperwork, & asked me why I was there. I told him "The Fort Payne police department does not know the state law.".

The fact that you are living in the attic of your mother's garage with no wife, no kids, no love, and nothing but criticism of everything on Earth makes me wonder why I haven't seen you in a clocktower with a rifle yet. The only thing that could make your life more pathetic than it is is if you actually were in your 50's as you claim. Be gald you're only 20, you might still have a chance for happiness if you learn to stop expecting the world to bend to your random will and start trying to get along with people.

Either way, I really don't care. But whatever you do, STOP invoking my name and STOP marrying it to this delusion you are living with.

Back to the Indy that is posted here. The papertrail provenance you have is certainly a plus for selling the Indy for now, but eventually, a vin list of the parade cars will be compiled( IMO), and the provenance will be of less importance, tho still an interesting, albeit less valuable piece of the car's history. My top offer for almost any Indy right now would still be in the 4 figure range and only about 3 Indys at the very most come to mind that might be an exception to that, and I would have really really think about even those Indys. I do believe, at some point, an Indy will come up at one of the hi visibility auto auctions, and the paradigm may or will change at that point, but I do not see that happening for at least a few more years.

The mileage will hurt your sale. Notice the showroom condition 88 in the auction section-less than 5K miles, is currently bid at $20,000, which is great but still below the "buy it now" price and $5000 less than you have stated you think your's might bring.

[This message has been edited by maryjane (edited 08-13-2008).]

Very well said Don.
The 88 for $20,000 though has no bids on it currently.

Tha Driver has stated that he believes it would bring $25,000 at B-J, which IMO is WRONG. There were 2 Fieros on B-J earlier this year or at some point last year, one of which IIRC was a prototype and neither went for more than $12,000. So the mere idea that a 100K not restored Indy would bring more than those is just...well...absurd doesn't quite cover it.

Don - you have 2 very nice Indys....you could always get this one as a DD and work on it.
Triplets would just make Ohio completly jealous...ahhhh....what a thought.
Not to mention, maybe you could get the "famous" floor mats and put them in the car and then there would be a really long, drawn out, often full of BS story to go along witht he other documentation you would receive with the car.

Yea...Don't get a third....I would have to go into full "Indy Hunt" mode

quote Originally posted by maryjane: Back to the Indy that is posted here. The papertrail provenance you have is certainly a plus for selling the Indy for now, but eventually, a vin list of the parade cars will be compiled( IMO), and the provenance will be of less importance, tho still an interesting, albeit less valuable piece of the car's history. My top offer for almost any Indy right now would still be in the 4 figure range and only about 3 Indys at the very most come to mind that might be an exception to that, and I would have really really think about even those Indys. I do believe, at some point, an Indy will come up at one of the hi visibility auto auctions, and the paradigm may or will change at that point, but I do not see that happening for at least a few more years. The mileage will hurt your sale. Notice the showroom condition 88 in the auction section-less than 5K miles, is currently bid at $20,000, which is great but still below the "buy it now" price and $5000 less than you have stated you think your's might bring.

You're absolutely right. These cars are not bringing near what they should. But the '88 - did they only make 100 of them? Was it on the track at the '84 Indy 500? Personally I can't believe it's bringing 20 grand. Most of them won't bring 5k, is the low mileage really worth 15k+? It all just depends on the buyer.
But hey that's OK: I'll just drive mine. I'll get my projects done sometime - or die first & not have to worry about it.

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: But the '88 - did they only make 100 of them?

Are you saying that there were only 100 Indys made? ---- You know better than that.

Are you saying that there were only 100 Indys at the track? ---- While still awaiting definitve proof, many people spoke with the original owner of an Indy at the 25th that has absolute proof that his car was #121 (stated clearly in an above post. So you know better than this as well.

So, I am very curious....what do you mean by that?

quote Originally posted by Toddster: (snip - lots more of todd's bullcrap & lies)

Moved back to where this discussion belongs:
https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/087545-4.html#p120

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver:I would agree for any other Indy. But... IF this is truely a one-of-one, what would your "gesstimate" be then?

I have an A/C delete Indy, probably the only one produced this way (and I have to wonder why anyone WOULDN'T want A/C?), have papers to prove it. I'd never expect $25K. Its all about condition.

Drive it!

------------------
4 Indys, 1 is A/C delete
85 GT speedster project
86 GT Corvette Yellow
2 88 Formula T-Tops
91 Grand Prix GTP, 3.4 TDC, 5 Speed
01 GMC "1 ton of fun" Crew Dually Diesel
08 Ford Escape

However......
"Time is the most precious and perishable of my possessions."

Buy IRM, again! at www.fierowarehouse.com

quote Originally posted by 007DOUG: I have an A/C delete Indy, probably the only one produced this way (and I have to wonder why anyone WOULDN'T want A/C?), have papers to prove it. I'd never expect $25K. Its all about condition. Drive it!

Yeah, basicly "one of 2,000" but without a populiar option. I've restored cars (show quality cars) for over 35 years. I've found rare dosen't mean anything if it's not desirable.
I plan to.

quote Originally posted by ohioindy: Yea...Don't get a third....I would have to go into full "Indy Hunt" mode

God help us all!

There is a 3rd one in my future at some point, but it will have to be a replacement for the one I got from Maryland, which means it will have to be in as good or better shape than that one-but with lower miles. I will then start driving the Maryland Indy more-since it has over 100K already. I've put less than 100 miles on it since I got it in May-June. Right now, I really do not have room for another one under roof, and I do not want to let one sit out in the E. Texas weather. But, if the right one came along, I could keep one in my sister's garage till I expand mine.

Tha Driver:
I got the pics, and it does look good, but it is not what I am looking for right now. Appreciate your effort and your honest description. Good luck with it--and protect those red seats!! Sunlight will fade them to different shades.
Don

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Moved back to where this discussion belongs: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/087545-4.html#p120

The TRASH CAN! Finally we agree on something.

Be sure to thank Cliff for his "UNbiased opinion" of your thread.

quote Originally posted by Toddster: The TRASH CAN! Finally we agree on something. Be sure to thank Cliff for his "UNbiased opinion" of your thread.

Good, at least you won't be able to post any more of your lies there. It's a shame he dosne't put you in the same place.
You never did answer my question: How many lies do you tell in one day? Now, for once in your life, actually tell the truth & give us an honest number. I'm sure if I counted, I'd find 50 or so just in the threads about the floor mat with your lies to me about that.
Funny how you claim you don't want this mentioned anymore but you keep bringing it up & posting about it again & again.

Ok guys. I have finally made contact with the person who has the complete list of Indy Fieros that were on the track, who was asigned to that car, car #-,- vin#, if one of the cars was unable to run, he has the replacemant car# with same info. includes parade festival cars, support vechiles, etc. He has been doing this sense 1979 for Indy pace cars at Indy until 2008. The bad news is that his cost if you want the documentation is rediculious. If you think you might want to spend big bucks for that info and if and you feel your car is a Festival car contact me at 84ND500@comcast.net I am still trying to work something out with him, but right now were at a road block. To the best of my kmowledge Fred and I think there were 150 total parade, track Indys. The photo of Indys on the track that I have shows 81 track cars. If I ever can make sense with the individual I will know for sure.
My next avenue is to contact Pontiac Historical Services to see some options on the Indy Festival cars. I will not give up on this as I have stated before. When anything comes up you will be informed.

Ron T

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signature by F-I-E-R-O (My Indy on right / #1 IMS)

[This message has been edited by paced84 (edited 08-14-2008).]

quote Originally posted by paced84: Ok guys. I have finally made contact with the person who has the complete list of Indy Fieros that were on the track, who was asigned to that car, car #-,- vin#, if one of the cars was unable to run, he has the replacemant car# with same info. includes parade festival cars, support vechiles, etc. He has been doing this sense 1979 for Indy pace cars at Indy until 2008. The bad news is that his cost if you want the documentation is rediculious. If you think you might want to spend big bucks for that info and if and you feel your car is a Festival car contact me at 84ND500@comcast.net I am still trying to work something out with him, but right now were at a road block. To the best of my kmowledge Fred and I think there were 150 total parade, track Indys. The photo of Indys on the track that I have shows 81 track cars. If I ever can make sense with the individual I will know for sure. My next avenue is to contact Pontiac Historical Services to see some options on the Indy Festival cars. I will not give up on this as I have stated before. When anything comes up you will be informed. Ron T

Sounds like a scam to me. Who is he? How can we be certain his info is accurate?
Several of us have contacted the speedway & have not heard back from them. IF they have that documentation, I'm sure it can be obtainted without breaking the bank.
I'll also bet the 150 figure (if accurate) includes ALL of the support vehicles, which include several pickups, SUVs, & other pontiacs.
I KNOW my car was there, but if the folks at the SPEEDWAY (or Pontiac) can verify that it would be worth a few bucks to me.

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Sounds like a scam to me.

Oh dear God in Heaven...you just have a VERY negative streak in you don't you? Apparently no one is honest in this world except you. I am so thankful that my life is good even with it's ups and downs and that I am not like...well...anyway.

150 Fieros would be about right. If you were to include the other support vehicles, there would be well more than that. Each driver had a Fiero to ride the parade lap in. Each VIP had a Fiero to ride the parade lap in. The Queen and several members of her court had a Fiero to ride the parade lap in. Uh-oh...by my math we are already well over 50 by a large amount.

The Blazers and S-10 trucks were used for debris pick-up during cautions and to help dry the track during the long rain delay (you do know the history of the 1984 Indy right?).

I keep saying that I am going to ignore this thread and certainly not post in it...but it is like a bad accident...you just can't help but watch.

This persons name was given to me by Ellen Bireley who is the director of the Indy Museum. She informed me this is the person that has handled logging pace cars when received at the speedway and would know who was to be in each car. For some reason he no longer has that job. As you know Fred and I have been working with Ellen to get the Festival Vins for at least two years. She does have the detailed badge info just waiting for her to get it to me. I must be patient. Our relationship with IMS is very good and we want to keep it that way. The speedway does not have the documentaion of the VINS.
Fred and I have had conversation with him. I do not know at this point what I can try and work out with him.

RT

------------------

signature by F-I-E-R-O (My Indy on right / #1 IMS)

[This message has been edited by paced84 (edited 08-14-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Sounds like a scam to me. Who is he? How can we be certain his info is accurate?

You are so negitive all the time. It seams that you are only happy when you are sturing the pot.

quote Originally posted by paced84: This persons name was given to me by Ellen Bireley who is the director of the Indy Museum. Our relationship with IMS is very good and we want to keep it that way. The speedway does not have the documentaion of the VINS.

Hey Ron,

Ellen is a GREAT person! She really really helped me and my son back at the Pace Car Reunion. It is wonderful that she has been as helpful as she has been with you and Fred about everything.

You do realize though, that it would only take a very negative person to change all the hard work.

quote Originally posted by Tha Driver: Sounds like a scam to me. Who is he? How can we be certain his info is accurate?

OK Pal…. You’ve torked me off for the last time.
Ron (paced84) is the most honest and trustworthy person on the forum.
If he tells you that Easter is on a Thursday next year believe him.
You want to bash me and Todd go right head.
I think you’re a pathetic piece of pond scum and Todd could buy and sell you twelve times over.
Ron and Fred know what they are talking about…unlike your self.
Do everybody here a favor… Don’t go away mad….Just go away

quote Originally posted by ohioindy: Do everybody here a favor… Don’t go away mad….Just go away

Driver, I have plate number 217 which shows there were more than 150 cars and trucks. There were well over 100 cars at the track and cars used by everyone who was involved. I have been going to Indy for many years and back then they used well over 100 cars for many purposes..

Spend the money with the Historical society and you will get the transfer which if it is a festival car it will show two car lots having it. I found this out and told Ron and Fred about this. You will find one dealer transfer before the Race day and one after unlike a standard car showing only one dealer sales. I have seen this already and discussed it with Ron who I am surprised he didn't put my name in the post above?????