This persons name was given to me by Ellen Bireley who is the director of the Indy Museum. She informed me this is the person that has handled logging pace cars when received at the speedway and would know who was to be in each car. For some reason he no longer has that job. As you know Fred and I have been working with Ellen to get the Festival Vins for at least two years. She does have the detailed badge info just waiting for her to get it to me. I must be patient. Our relationship with IMS is very good and we want to keep it that way. The speedway does not have the documentaion of the VINS. Fred and I have had conversation with him. I do not know at this point what I can try and work out with him.
RT
Well, that's different. If the speedway says this is the person that kept the records then he is not just "a person that has a list".
OK Pal…. You’ve torked me off for the last time. Ron (paced84) is the most honest and trustworthy person on the forum. If he tells you that Easter is on a Thursday next year believe him. You want to bash me and Todd go right head. I think you’re a pathetic piece of pond scum and Todd could buy and sell you twelve times over. Ron and Fred know what they are talking about…unlike your self. Do everybody here a favor… Don’t go away mad….Just go away
I never said a damn thing about Ron! Why do you idiots ALWAYS have to twist things around & not get your facts straight???
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 08-14-2008).]
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09:39 PM
ohioindy Member
Posts: 2137 From: Wooster Ohio Registered: Nov 2003
Oh dear God in Heaven...you just have a VERY negative streak in you don't you? Apparently no one is honest in this world except you.
Well if you've been ripped off as much as I have & have had as much **** STOLEN from you as I have you tend to be very careful. "A person" that wants a "rediculious" amount of money tends to make me wary. It dosen't help that I just got back from meeting (120 mile round trip) with a guy that was picking up a car he bought from my brother (on egay). He was supposed to bring $5,700 CASH, & he shows up at our bank (the meeting place on the way to the car) with $700 & wants to write a check for the rest - & pick up the car. I heard him talking to my brother on the phone & saying "I don't know if it's a rusted out peice of **** or not". Well he had ten days to go look at it if he wanted to. I know he was planning to cancel the check as soon as he got the car. When we refused to take the check (edit: without waiting for it to clear before releasing the car) , he said he didn't want the car anymore. This after paying $500 deposit via paypunks. So he's ready to loose $500 - why? Because his scam didn't work this time. Otherwise, if he wanted to pay for the car he would have brought cash like he said he was. Now: watch todd & OhioIndy (I used to have some respect for you Ohio) jump in here & bash me claiming I refused to pay for that floor mat! When in reality Indy said he'd buy it from me & I said for him to just buy it direct from todd & save shipping. Just watch....
quote
Originally posted by CenTexIndy:
I keep saying that I am going to ignore this thread and certainly not post in it...but it is like a bad accident...you just can't help but watch.
Yeah, you should ignore it because as usual todd has managed to post more BS & put it off topic anyway. I have one person interested (maybe), & if anyone else wants to look at it they can PM or email me at ImThaDriver at yahoo. If I'm not online any longer they can reach me through the folks at the Ga. Fiero club. Ron can start a thread about the VIN's - he needs to anyway. The info will get lost in this thread. Thanks for the news BTW, Ron. If it turns out legit & you need for everyone to share the costs please email me. No need for anyone to post anything else here at all.
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 08-14-2008).]
Ok guys. I have finally made contact with the person who has the complete list of Indy Fieros that were on the track, who was asigned to that car, car #-,- vin#, if one of the cars was unable to run, he has the replacemant car# with same info. includes parade festival cars, support vechiles, etc. He has been doing this sense 1979 for Indy pace cars at Indy until 2008. The bad news is that his cost if you want the documentation is rediculious. If you think you might want to spend big bucks for that info and if and you feel your car is a Festival car contact me at 84ND500@comcast.net I am still trying to work something out with him, but right now were at a road block. To the best of my kmowledge Fred and I think there were 150 total parade, track Indys. The photo of Indys on the track that I have shows 81 track cars. If I ever can make sense with the individual I will know for sure. My next avenue is to contact Pontiac Historical Services to see some options on the Indy Festival cars. I will not give up on this as I have stated before. When anything comes up you will be informed.
Ron T
Ron-how many figures are we talking about here-for the whole list? $xxx? $xxxx? $xxxxx? Will he sell the whole list--or is he just charging a "per vehicle vin # " fee? Don
Show me where I EVER stated in this thread that you didn't pay for the mats. I have not brought up the mats at all in this thread!
You know, taking a look at the threads you start it is VERY obvious that you just want to pick a fight.
Do me and everyone else here a favor and go pick your nose instead of a fight.
If we ignore you will you just go away? It is clear this is all for attention.
I will have the kids in the classes that I teach read your threads so that they can discover how NOT to act.
Buh-bye!
Sorry - wrong "Indy"! I should have been more specific. I was talking about Ohio since he's decided to bash me when he gets a chance. This in spite of the fact that I've done nothing to him at all. EDIT: fixed it
Please Tex; show me where I'm trying to start a fight. PM if you like. I just want to know where you got that impression.
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 08-14-2008).]
Rick, Sorry about that. I did call Jim Mattision Thur about our conversation, but had to leave a message. . What ever I find out You and Fred will be first to know. Then we can go on from there.
RT
------------------ signature by F-I-E-R-O (My Indy on right / #1 IMS)
Sounds good but I wouldnt put in in post like this again. Once the info is at hand then lets work with it from there especially if we have to buy it. This thread is ruined. Rick B
Sounds good but I wouldnt put in in post like this again. Once the info is at hand then lets work with it from there especially if we have to buy it. Rick B
If you folks need/ or will accept contributions to help with this matter, let us know.
The more I hear you all talk about Fiero Indy's... The more I WANT ONE! Dammit I need to get some money together sometime and finally buy 1 of these.
I will put a 3800SC in it though.
J/K Ohio
Also: too bad you didn't get the first Indy I had. It had a bad engine (or head at least) & needed some interior work & paint & I sold it for 400 bucks. Of course it wasn't a parade lap car either.
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01:56 AM
Aug 18th, 2008
katatak Member
Posts: 7136 From: Omaha, NE USA Registered: Apr 2008
Yeah, you should ignore it because as usual todd has managed to post more BS & put it off topic anyway. I have one person interested (maybe), & if anyone else wants to look at it they can PM or email me at ImThaDriver at yahoo. If I'm not online any longer they can reach me through the folks at the Ga. Fiero club. Ron can start a thread about the VIN's - he needs to anyway. The info will get lost in this thread. Thanks for the news BTW, Ron. If it turns out legit & you need for everyone to share the costs please email me. No need for anyone to post anything else here at all.
Well..... I kept telling myself not to post here but I have too. This guy needs to spend some time with Dr. Phil. His stories have more wiggles and wags than I can count. For every piece of info someone else digs up, this guy calls BS on, or has already done it, or has 2 more in better shape, etc. etc. He keeps talking about all these projects he has going and on and on. Anyone seen any posted pics of these? I question as to weather he actually has an Indy let alone any other Fiero! If it smells like BS, it probably is BS.
Out
Edit to add----- Poor Charlie Brown aka Tha Driver - "Why is everybody always pickin on me"
[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 08-18-2008).]
Well..... I kept telling myself not to post here but I have too. This guy needs to spend some time with Dr. Phil. His stories have more wiggles and wags than I can count. For every piece of info someone else digs up, this guy calls BS on, or has already done it, or has 2 more in better shape, etc. etc. He keeps talking about all these projects he has going and on and on. Anyone seen any posted pics of these? I question as to weather he actually has an Indy let alone any other Fiero! If it smells like BS, it probably is BS.
Well, show me where I've been wrong or posted BS or lies. I have said BS on WHAT exactly? SHOW ME! I have already done WHAT exactly?? SHOW ME! I have two more WHAT in better shape? SHOW ME where I've said these things! Pics of my indy ARE posted here, as well as my '88 custom project. The custom car is here: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/A...070315-1-061103.html It's the black & primer car about halfway down the page. Sorry I didn't save the URL for the thread with pics of my Indy. There are pics of my two VW baja bugs & the Z on my homepage. The blue bug: http://angelonearth.net/me.html . Annie the yellow baja: http://AngelOnEarth.net/photo.html The V8 Z car: http://angelonearth.net/ZCar/ZCar.html These are old I've done a lot to it since then & I still gave a looong way to go. It now has WIDE flares, Z4 taillights, etc., and actually the bumpers are on the BMW now. I might add the homepage is about 5 years behind in updating... The mid-engine V8 VW Cabriolet? The BMW? The Sportster? The lightweight solo Fiero? If you like I'll upload pics of them to my homepage server too, as soon as I get the time to install my FTP program (I recently had to replace the harddrive). I need to do that anyway.
Edit: Never said I wasn't CRAZY, though. Edit again: Ohio or CenTex has the pics of my Indy & posted them to one of the threads. MAYBE they'll be nice (to me) & post that URL for you.
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 08-18-2008).]
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04:35 AM
CenTexIndy Member
Posts: 3061 From: Waco, Texas, USA Registered: Mar 2006
I question as to weather he actually has an Indy let alone any other Fiero!
OK - I was not planning on posting any more in this thread - but this makes it to where I have to.
He DOES have an Indy. I have seen pics of it and I can't remember if it was myself or Ohio that posted them. I don't have time to look for them right now, but I can assure you that he does have one.
While Driver does seem to call BS on a lot of stuff, it is not fair to him on this instance to call BS on him. He has it. It may or may not be for sale (I know how hard it can be to decide to sell an Indy).
Would it help if he posted pics? Sure. I have to be out of town for most of the day, but when I get a chance I will see if I can find the thread with the pics to help him out.
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08:59 AM
Patrick Member
Posts: 37643 From: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Registered: Apr 99
LOL! I can't believe todd said that **** about me living in the attic of my dead mother's garage. I built this shop/living quarters - such as it is - with my own two hands, on my own property which is paid for. It my be hell living here, but it's MY hell!
And thanks CenTex: as I've said, I've never had a beef with you.
I don't have a beef with Ohio, either. Don't know why he posted about the mats above in such an "argumentive" attitude, & called me a lost cause. If I had not told him to go ahead & buy the mats straight from todd to save on shipping, they would have cost him more. I'm glad he made money on them.
Edit to add----- Poor Charlie Brown aka Tha Driver - "Why is everybody always pickin on me"
Edit: Jeeze dude, you must be older than I am. I think I actually have that 45, but recently gave/loaned it to my brother ( a whole stack of 45's). I had some from the 50's & 60's, that originally belonged to him (he's 5 years older tham me) & our parents. When I read that line, I have to sing it in a deep voice (in my head) like the record.
One in not too bad a shape just brought $800 ON EBAY.
Wish I had seen that. Don't know why: I'm spending my money on the other projects at this time & don't need another one - especially another Fiero... Of course, it wasn't a *documented* parade lap car. Edit: Checked it out. One RIUGH car! No wings, paint & decals are toast. The rear spoiler blew off in the wind? Can you say "completely rusted out"? I'd think it's a parts car at best. But only for a few interior parts.
[This message has been edited by Tha Driver (edited 08-19-2008).]
I got in touch with the buyer. He said he backed out of the deal. Funny how someone who bids after reading that it's a CONTRACT can just back out - but that's ebay. Maybe it's payback for the seller, if he's one of those guys that end their auctions early because their item(s) didn't bring enough money. I can't tell you how many times that's happened to me!
katatak: Still waiting for you to show me where I've been wrong or posted BS or lies. I have said BS on WHAT exactly? SHOW ME! I have already done WHAT exactly?? SHOW ME! I have two more WHAT in better shape? SHOW ME where I've said these things! (I'm still getting this type of B.S. from folks that make these claims but cannot back them up.) Oh you can't? Gee could that be because I haven't said these things? (yeah I'm a stubborn old fart...) I'm posting again here to show you (& others that may be interested) the pics of my BMW. Just recently finished the fiberglass bumpers, welding in the hood peices for the Z hood vents, & shaving the emblems & side markers. Ignore the big wing: it's a stock Fiero & I have a fiberglass reproduction that I'm cutting down (narrowing & shortening) to better fit the car.
Try using a decent browser, or making an effort. The pics are there, & they load just fine on PFF in Opera. Guess it's FAR too much to ask for an apology, since you STILL doubt anything I say or do, in spite of you not posting a SINGLE EXAMPLE of me doing what you've accused me of! What an ass.
Have you ever located your vin as of yet to document on FPC?
John
Just haven't taken the time. I'm trying to get several cars painted for my brother, A Mera painted for a friend, & some work done on several of my projects.
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09:07 PM
PFF
System Bot
katatak Member
Posts: 7136 From: Omaha, NE USA Registered: Apr 2008
That's BIG ASS to you mister. Get over it and move on.... If you are looking for an apology from me due to my opinion of you, do not hold your breath. BTW, you know what opinions are like.......Everybody has one.....
Edit to add: No need to post anything - your threads are full of it.....Just callin it how I see it.....
[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 10-08-2008).]
That's BIG ASS to you mister. Get over it and move on.... If you are looking for an apology from me due to my opinion of you, do not hold your breath. BTW, you know what opinions are like.......Everybody has one.....
Edit to add: No need to post anything - your threads are full of it.....Just callin it how I see it.....
You can't post an example because all you're doing is blowing smoke out your ass. Callin' it like you see it? You must be blind. Get a life.
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02:13 AM
m0sh_man Member
Posts: 8460 From: south charleston WV 25309 Registered: Feb 2002
excuse my ignorance, but what makes a parade lap car so special, to me its no different than any other indy, sure it made a couple laps around a track for a photo op, but it shouldnt make it anymore special than any other indy.
im in the process of stripping an indy right now to make an indy clone on a 88 chassis, doesnt bother me a bit that im stripping a car thats 1 of 2000
and *IF* 100 indy's paced the parade lap, than means your's is at best 1 of 100 that paced the track, however does that matter? if i took my 1998 subaru forester out on the track and ran a lap with over 120,000 miles on it, would that make it worth anymore, there's something to think about.
matthew
my post is not intended to flame anyone.
i still stand at my previous post that the car is probably worth $2500-5000, as i have not seen photo's of the car, im leaning towards the 2500 side due to the condition he discribed of the car (headlight issue, and other small problems)
excuse my ignorance, but what makes a parade lap car so special, to me its no different than any other indy, sure it made a couple laps around a track for a photo op, but it shouldnt make it anymore special than any other indy.
im in the process of stripping an indy right now to make an indy clone on a 88 chassis, doesnt bother me a bit that im stripping a car thats 1 of 2000
and *IF* 100 indy's paced the parade lap, than means your's is at best 1 of 100 that paced the track, however does that matter? if i took my 1998 subaru forester out on the track and ran a lap with over 120,000 miles on it, would that make it worth anymore, there's something to think about.
matthew
my post is not intended to flame anyone.
i still stand at my previous post that the car is probably worth $2500-5000, as i have not seen photo's of the car, im leaning towards the 2500 side due to the condition he discribed of the car (headlight issue, and other small problems)
Most collectors would pay a lot more for a car with the race history: in fact some of them would not even want one without it. Just being on the track dosen't matter - being part of the Indy 500 does. My car is one of 100 (or however many), but one of a very few documented parade lap cars left. I still have yet to see another with real documented proof that it's a parade lap car. However, you're right: these cars are not bringing very much money yet.
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07:02 PM
ckfiero Member
Posts: 305 From: New Orleans LA Registered: Sep 2008
Most collectors would pay a lot more for a car with the race history: in fact some of them would not even want one without it. Just being on the track dosen't matter - being part of the Indy 500 does. My car is one of 100 (or however many), but one of a very few documented parade lap cars left. I still have yet to see another with real documented proof that it's a parade lap car. However, you're right: these cars are not bringing very much money yet.
Not trying to flame but I didn't really see any definitive proof that this car actually was on the track at all. Lots of circumstantial evidence, some of which could have been doctored up before you even owned the car. As far as a true collector piece though, no definitive provenence ensuring it was actually there. And if its going to have any additional worth, I would say a serious collector paying a premium will need air tight iron clad documentation that the car was genuinely on the track. I don't think that has been determined yet, although I did see a few cars out there in the past that had the original versions of the actual registration and transfer documents of the actual cars to indianapolis motor speedway. I dont believe I read that as part of the documentation you had however... at this point, barring that there is no true provenence.
Is it worth stashing away and hoping a way pans out to absolutely prove which indy fieros were on the track? Sure, if you have the space, its not like the car is worth much as it sits, maybe $2-3k tops so its not a huge investment.
Asking for money from someone speculating that it looks like it *probably might have potentially been* one of the parade cars.... thats no better than the mortgage speculators that got the general economy screwed up as ad as it is right now. Find a buyer who goes for that I've got a bridge for sale....
Of course, a signed sworn statement, notorized, with your signature, volunteering to recompense a purchaser for any diminished value, plus interest, if the car could not be proven to be a parade car, that might go a little bit of the way to help. It'd also prevent you from being charged with fraud and intent to commit fraud for selling it as a parade car if it really isnt as well...
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07:57 PM
katatak Member
Posts: 7136 From: Omaha, NE USA Registered: Apr 2008
Not trying to flame but I didn't really see any definitive proof that this car actually was on the track at all. Lots of circumstantial evidence, some of which could have been doctored up before you even owned the car. As far as a true collector piece though, no definitive provenence ensuring it was actually there. And if its going to have any additional worth, I would say a serious collector paying a premium will need air tight iron clad documentation that the car was genuinely on the track. I don't think that has been determined yet, although I did see a few cars out there in the past that had the original versions of the actual registration and transfer documents of the actual cars to indianapolis motor speedway. I dont believe I read that as part of the documentation you had however... at this point, barring that there is no true provenence.
Is it worth stashing away and hoping a way pans out to absolutely prove which indy fieros were on the track? Sure, if you have the space, its not like the car is worth much as it sits, maybe $2-3k tops so its not a huge investment.
Asking for money from someone speculating that it looks like it *probably might have potentially been* one of the parade cars.... thats no better than the mortgage speculators that got the general economy screwed up as ad as it is right now. Find a buyer who goes for that I've got a bridge for sale....
Of course, a signed sworn statement, notorized, with your signature, volunteering to recompense a purchaser for any diminished value, plus interest, if the car could not be proven to be a parade car, that might go a little bit of the way to help. It'd also prevent you from being charged with fraud and intent to commit fraud for selling it as a parade car if it really isnt as well...
BINGO...... Tha Driver makes a lot of claims. Multiple requests for the VIN have been met with excuses as to why the VIN has not been offered. Here's what I understand about the Indy's that were there. There were at least 150 Indy's of which not all ever got on the track or the parade becuase they were back up cars for every Indy that hauled a Driver, The Queen and her court, Dignitaries and Officials. He may have a pile of paperwork that shows it is indeed plate #36 but it does not prove that the car was even driven. It may have been a back up car. Also, if I am correct (and I am confient that someone will correct me if I'm wrong) the Indy's that were there had 2 dealer transfers before being sold to the public. 1 transfer for the parade and race and one for the retail sale of the car.
Until the real Indy guys can come up with some docs from the Indy people, we will never know. I believe that if someone wanted to be shifty, a lot of the doc's could be duplicated, bought online, at private sales, auctions, garage sales, etc. I have 2 original titles for 69 Hemi Dodge Darts. Picked them up at a garage sale with a whole box of other mopar doc's like build sheets, ID Tags, window stickers, etc. Someone could simply claim to have them but never produce them.
I don't doubt that he has an Indy. Others on here have confirmed he has one. I have a problem with someone claiming that his Indy is a "one of one" and "the last documented parade car" and when asked for a VIN number, will not or can not produce it. When he is questioned or pushed about it, he gets defensive and or changes the subject. Calls people names. I do not need to post any of this. All you have to do is read this thread from start to finish and it will be clear. Others do not make these pie in the sky claims about thier Indy's because they know better. It is extremely difficult to prove that any particular Indy was actually in the parade and or on the track. Those Indy owners out there that have all the documentation do not need to brag about it.
I think that if you could prove that it was an actual car that one of the drivers rode in, it was in pristine show room condition with under 10k miles and you had all the maintenance, registration, etc. it may be worth 25k to the right person.
Paul, I questioned the claims you were / are making about your car in this thread. I have yet to see anything in this thread that substantiates your claims other than one member posting that he knows that you do own an Indy and he in fact had at one time posted pics of it for you. Now, does he believe you own the car beacuse you sent him pictures of an Indy that you say is yours? I can post a million pics of cars and claim to own them. A few members have asked you in this thread and others for the VIN. I have not seen it yet. Your failure to produce a VIN makes me not believe the claims you are making. It's that simple. Now if you want to go on raging about how everyone is bashing you and calling you names and calling you a liar, flame on. If not, I challenge you to "Put Up or Shut Up".
[This message has been edited by katatak (edited 10-09-2008).]
ckfiero: I doubt you'll ever be able to prove if ANY of the parade lap cars were ON the track, or there for backups. I doubt it matters.
quote
Originally posted by katatak:For every piece of info someone else digs up, this guy calls BS on, or has already done it, or has 2 more in better shape, etc. etc. He keeps talking about all these projects he has going and on and on. Anyone seen any posted pics of these?
katatak: Just STFU! I've ALREADY proved to you that I have the cars I claim. YOU have yet to post a SINGLE example of me claiming BS, or something I said I had already done, or where I said I had two of something in better shape THAT YOU CLAIMED I'VE DONE IN YOUR ABOVE POST. YOU need to "put up or shut up"! WHEN I GET TIME & IF I FEEL LIKE IT, I'll post a scan of the original Indiana bill of sale. But not to prove anything to an ass like you. I have TWO cars here of my brother's to paint, & he has over 60 other cars (actually the last time I counted it was over 80, but he's sold at least a dozen or so) that he wants to do something with (lots are parts cars). Am I going to prove THAT to you? Hell no, 'cause I don't give a frack if you believe me or not! I also have a Mera here to paint, & all my projects to work on. I don't have time to just jump at every request you make for me to sustantiate my claims. I say again: STFU!
BTW if anyone wants any Mopars from the '60s & '70s that's most of what my brother has.
So here's the question: What's it worth? As best as I can tell, it's the LAST documented parade lap (flag lot) car from the '84 Indy 500. I've posted here & on the Fiero Indy page & no one has come forth saying they have any documentation on thier car.
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver: Speculation is that in *nice* shape, being the last DOCUMENTED Parade Lap car, it would bring $25,000 + at a Barret-Jackson auction. It would need a little work to bring that, including some paintwork, a floor mat, a seat bolster repair, one plastic rocker trim, & detailing (especially the engine compartment & suspension). Of course, I'm not looking for anything near that. I can email pics to SERIOUS buyers or for someone to post here. Or later I might can upload them to my homepage servers to link to (due to a recent format I have to re-install the FTP software to do that). Any offers?
The quotes from the first post in the thread make it sounds like the car should be worth more for being a parade lap car on the track...
quote
Originally posted by Tha Driver:
ckfiero: I doubt you'll ever be able to prove if ANY of the parade lap cars were ON the track, or there for backups. I doubt it matters.
The last post contradicts that and implies you feel it doesnt matter if it was on the track or not for value?
Which one is it? Is this a run-of-the-mill $2-3k indy fiero needing work with over 100k miles, or is it the highly valuable for having been on the track during the parade variety for the collector?
I think perhaps the thread is so long, and so old, that people aren't sure what the car is being represented as anymore???? I first read it seeing how I am contemplating an indy myself, although this car has more mileage than I was looking for and wouldnt fit my personal needs, there may be others who could have more interest... depending on knowing exactly what you are representing this car as being, and the price point it should be at.
