So the REAL difference in the Hella low and high beams is NOT in the bulb, but in the HOUSING - the high beam housing projects the light higher and wider than the low beam ?
Thanks for all the input on this topic - this may help prevent serious problems as people modify their headlights. I've been asking in regards to ALL the options on lights, not only the round Hellas. I was thinking that (4) 55 watts might be a nice way to go, but since I have (1) car recently demolished, another with front AND rear damage and I hold my breath everytime I get into my Formula, a headlight project may be a while .....
IP: Logged
09:00 PM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
So the REAL difference in the Hella low and high beams is NOT in the bulb, but in the HOUSING
Exactly! The difference is in the housing, the reflector, and the optics. The 90mm high beam is just a very sophisticated (computer designed, no doubt) free form reflector in a simple housing. By contrast, the projector optics of the 90mm low beam module are much more complex.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-21-2007).]
IP: Logged
11:23 PM
Mar 21st, 2007
PaulJK Member
Posts: 6638 From: Los Angeles Registered: Oct 2001
So the REAL difference in the Hella low and high beams is NOT in the bulb, but in the HOUSING - the high beam housing projects the light higher and wider than the low beam ?
Yes the low beam projector lens is designed to spread the light out wide and low. (See Marvins other thread where the upper section of the light is a flat line.) The High beams are more of a direct beam. Even though the same bulb is used.
[This message has been edited by Oreif (edited 03-21-2007).]
IP: Logged
11:26 AM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
Aarrrggghhh!!! With all the discussion concerning keeping the low beams illuminated when the high beams are on, I finally realized that it can be done without a diode or relay at all ... using just a single wire jumper! You could even insert a simple SPST switch in the jumper if you wanted to be able to switch between standard "two light" high beam mode and "four light" high beam mode.
Please remember that all the discussion concerning the adequacy of the stock Fiero headlight circuitry still applies. Neither Oreif nor I think that the stock headlight switch will survive the current demands of four 65 watt H9 bulbs ... at least not for very long. Adding a relay would still be a better solution, IMHO:
For convenient reference, here are the "wall pictures" of the light patterns (at 25 feet) of the DOT-compliant Hella 90mm modules. These were previously posted in this thread.
Got these from my powder coater, he made a test piece (also zink galvanized) that I could scratch and abuse to check if the coating is tough enough... all I can say... it's tough!! They put them in a bath adding current and the zinc reacts to that and gets "fuzzy" and an epoxy agent sticks to the surface, then they allow the epoxy to dry in a tunnel with heat and UV-light, then robotic powdercoating. The whole coating isn't thick at all.
I also got these HID ballasts that actually kicks in faster than my original Hella HID on my cosworth does... these are from an Aston Martin... the HID bulbs wasn't included so I'm using regular Bosch 6000K. I plan on redoing the entire harness from the fusebox and forward for both high and low beam using new relays and fuses just to get a clean install. I will run the halogen low beam at the same time as the HID high beam is on. The parking light that is in the bumper (old scandinavian requirement) will have to go since I now have parking lights in my high beams. I no longer wish to hide my driving lights and run with fog lights and parking lights.
The pics is a bit crappy since I took them with my cell-phone.
[This message has been edited by Intel (edited 03-22-2007).]
I also got these HID ballasts ... from an Aston Martin....
Sorry to be negative, but I seriously doubt that that ballast was OEM in an Aston Martin. It's an aftermarket ballast manufactured in China by Exsun and marketed by VVME. The big tipoff is the non-standard connectors between the ballast and HID capsule, along with the questionable "Hella Technology" labeling. See these pictures: Link 1 and Link 2. The same ballast is also custom labeled and sold under various trade names by other Asian vendors.
I hope you have better luck with those ballasts than I did. One of the two I purchased for evaluation failed after only a few minutes of operation. Too bad ... if they were reliable they would be a very good value.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-23-2007).]
Paid Timgray (raw) Xanth Joseph KrazyKurtGT Kenneth Nashco (raw)
Confirmed TorqueWench Fiero STS FieroWannaBe HIOSILVER! (Rectangular) tjuren_80 Angel_Valentino ccFiero350 blue87 wingless Fierotaz Cornersonrails (Rectangular) Team Race-Tech (Rectangular) 87GT_97114 (Rectangular) Flyguyeddy for later Unsafe at any Speed for later
Expressed Interest Fierov8 GregZ R Runner Jason G. Campbell FieroMaster88 Shadowguy 88White3.4GT AutoTech Srat110 Vladd Rodney PaulJK Tom Lesuik Htexans1 PontiacJ8 Low_key Kohburn
Is there anyone I missed or corrections that need to be made?
Products Available and pricing:
Twin Round Headlights buckets: $208 USD shipped to North America available: 25 sets
Rectangular Headlights buckets: $208 USD shipped to North America available: week of the 15th of April!!
Blank Faced Headlight buckets: $198 USD shipped to North America available: 8 sets
[This message has been edited by Fiero1Fan (edited 04-04-2007).]
IP: Logged
11:07 PM
Mar 23rd, 2007
Austrian Import Member
Posts: 3919 From: Monterey, CA Registered: Feb 2007
Sorry to be negative, but I seriously doubt that that ballast was OEM in an Aston Martin. It's an aftermarket ballast manufactured in China by Exsun and sold by many Asian vendors. The big tipoff is the non-standard connectors between the ballast and HID capsule, along with the questionable "Hella Technology" labeling. I hope you have better luck with those ballasts than I did. One of the two I purchased for evaluation failed after only a few minutes of operation. Too bad ... if they were reliable they would be a very good value.
I think he's right. I don't want to be the bearer of bad news, but I think he's right. I couldn't verify anywhere that Bosh makes HID bulbs. All I could find that there are only two manufacturers of genuine OEM type HID's. One is Phillips and the other is Sylvania. They're between 4500K and 5000K. Anything brighter than that only has a blueish tint, but isn't actually brighter. I wasn't able to verify if Hella has a true HID setup, so until proven otherwise I'm guessing their 90mm setup is genuine HID.
That shouldn't sway you though. It doesn't have to be brand name if you like it. that's all that matters. Some copies can be as good (or better) than the original. I've experienced that with many products.
-M
IP: Logged
12:25 AM
Marvin McInnis Member
Posts: 11599 From: ~ Kansas City, USA Registered: Apr 2002
I wasn't able to verify if Hella has a true HID setup, so until proven otherwise I'm guessing their 90mm setup is genuine HID.
Hella does make true HID 90mm modules, both DOT and ECE compliant versions, and they all use a standard D2S HID capsule (i.e. bulb).
You are correct that there are only a few manufacturers of HID capsules used as OEM equipment by car manufacturers ... Philips, Sylvania/Osram, and (maybe) GE ... and there are currently only six standard HID capsule types in general OEM use: D1R/D1S, D2R/D2S, and D4R/D4S. The D1R/D1S capsules include their own igniter electronics (which increases the cost substantially), while the others do not. The R suffix capsules are intended for low beam use with conventional parabolic reflector optics, and the S suffix capsules are generally used with projector-type optics. D2R/D2S capsules are by far the most common. The color temperature of most OEM capsules (e.g. Philips 85122 D2S) is 4300K, although they tend to go a little bluer as they age in operation and Philips does make a ~5000K HID capsule (marked 85122+) intended primarily for replacement use. Always look for DOT and/or ECE compliance markings on the capsule base. Incidentally, there are no legal plug-in HID replacements for halogen bulbs that are approved for highway use anywhere in North America, Europe, or Japan.
Unlike the capsules, there are many OEM manufacturers of HID ballasts and igniters, including Philips, Hella, Bosch, Sylvania/Osram, Sylvania/Valeo, Rotec, Mitsubishi, Denso, and Panasonic. A ballast must be properly matched, both physically and electrically, to one of the standard HID capsule types described above. Probably the most widely used OEM ballast is the Philips/Hella "Gen III" type, intended for use with D2R/D2S capsules. The Exsun ballast is apparently an unlicensed clone of the Philips/Hella Gen III design, which would explain the deceptive "Hella Technology" label.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-23-2007).]
IP: Logged
10:01 AM
PFF
System Bot
Intel Member
Posts: 752 From: Helsingborg, Sweden Registered: May 2002
Originally posted by Marvin McInnis: Sorry to be negative, but I seriously doubt that that ballast was OEM in an Aston Martin. It's an aftermarket ballast manufactured in China by Exsun and marketed by VVME. The big tipoff is the non-standard connectors between the ballast and HID capsule, along with the questionable "Hella Technology" labeling. See these pictures: Link 1 and Link 2. The same ballast is also custom labeled and sold under various trade names by other Asian vendors.
I hope you have better luck with those ballasts than I did. One of the two I purchased for evaluation failed after only a few minutes of operation. Too bad ... if they were reliable they would be a very good value.
Yeah I was a bit surprised by the "Hella Technology" label. The company I buy my parts from are only working on Aston, Rolls and a few others. I bought my HID 90 mm hellas and my halogen 90 mm from them. I checked with the company and the ballast is a replacement module for an aston martin. I've only been running mine for a few hours (test) and they work just as good as the hella HID and they kick in a bit faster. Will have to say that the hella hid should be a better choice, well it have to be since it's three times the price, maybe I'll swap in the Hella HID form the cosworth now when it's up for sale.
. They're between 4500K and 5000K. Anything brighter than that only has a blueish tint, but isn't actually brighter.
Those rating are not brightness. that is color temperature. I can get you a 1/2 watt 5000K lamp that is very nice as a dim reading lamp. Color temperature relates to the color of the light given off. 1000K is very red, 10000K is blue sky blue. those numbers have nothing to do with how bright a lamp is. and honestly should be ignored on any headlight bulb as marketing garbage unless you are using the lamps in a fish tank or for growing plants, then those numbers are important.
Remember those numbers are color not brightness.
IP: Logged
09:57 PM
Mar 24th, 2007
Kristian V Member
Posts: 217 From: Göteborg / Sweden Registered: Feb 2006
Originally posted by Oreif:...If you were to turn on the low and high beams of the Hella's you would be drawing 9.02 amps...
Just a smal correction that slipped by so far. 65W / 12V = 5.42A Or more likely when alternator is charging, it's 65W / 13.8V = 4.7A That's for each light. So its (4x5.42A @12V) 21.68A , or (4x4.7A @13.8V) 18.8A when all four is lit.
I would not even try and use the Fieros original light switch for twice the power it was designed for, when all you need is two extra relays, and use the original powercord for the light as signal to the realy instead, and draw a new power line directly from the battery to the lights, through the relays ofcorce. One for low, and one for high beams.
IP: Logged
02:44 PM
Oreif Member
Posts: 16460 From: Schaumburg, IL Registered: Jan 2000
Just a smal correction that slipped by so far. 65W / 12V = 5.42A Or more likely when alternator is charging, it's 65W / 13.8V = 4.7A That's for each light. So its (4x5.42A @12V) 21.68A , or (4x4.7A @13.8V) 18.8A when all four is lit.
I would not even try and use the Fieros original light switch for twice the power it was designed for, when all you need is two extra relays, and use the original powercord for the light as signal to the realy instead, and draw a new power line directly from the battery to the lights, through the relays ofcorce. One for low, and one for high beams.
Nothing "slipped by" as there was no correction needed. You just mis-read my post. The 9.02 amps was each wire. (With alternator it is 14.4V not 13.8V ) The post was about the current thru the wires running to one pair of lights not the total amps all the lights use. So all four lights would draw 18.04 but that would ONLY be thru the headlight switch, not thru each wire (or circuit) as there is one wire for low beam and one wire for high beam. See Marvin's schematic drawing above. The Tan wire goes to the low side and as you can see they jumper the right hand light off the left hand light. So the Tan wire coming from the switch going to the left light will have 9.02 amps as each bulb draws 4.51 amps at 14.4V.
IP: Logged
04:11 PM
Kristian V Member
Posts: 217 From: Göteborg / Sweden Registered: Feb 2006
I have forgotten the actual ratings, but: There are two ratings given for most car bulbs, the standard 12V and another that is ~14V. If I remember the chart correctly, the headlights are on the ~14V rating side. The 65W will be at that voltage, not the voltage that the car charges at (since some cars are different). I think sylvania has one of the charts somewhere on their site and I have seen it on some other info only sites. The chart is for the standard rating system...
I have a couple of ?'s for you. What size are the holes? Can you get custom holes made if I send you a template? I have different size lights that I would like to use.
I have a couple of ?'s for you. What size are the holes? Can you get custom holes made if I send you a template? I have different size lights that I would like to use.
Thanks
The holes on the twins are 100mm Ø. Now if you want to use other lights then I would recommend that you use my blank sets. You get all the pieces but not welded together yet. That allows you to machine the front plates how ever you need to for your lights.
The blanks are $135 + 53 shipping.
F1F
IP: Logged
08:49 PM
PFF
System Bot
Mar 27th, 2007
alex de jorge Member
Posts: 501 From: Kissimmee, FL Registered: Nov 2005
Ok, after going around and around I have decided the round headlight setup will look best on my car so put me down for a set. I will send the paypal shortly.
Are there any non-galvanized twin rounds left? It appears my timing is poor, I don't come onto PFF much anymore and I have missed this thread. I want to powdercoat mine, and it would make things easier if they weren't already galvanized. A black car with dark window tint just wouldn't look right with a shiny headlight bracket...I'll need black powdercoat!
Please let me know, if you've got non-galvanized, I'll paypal you right away to save my pair. Thanks!
Yes I have some non-galvanized here. I held 5 pairs out of the Galvanic. I can ship as soon as the payment arrives.
F1F
I paypal'd $208 to fiero1fan@fieros.eu for the uncoated twin round brackets. FYI, you may want to edit the first post in this thread with updated pricing, parts availability, paypal address, etc. It was very time consuming to go through every single page just to find out what was available and how to pay for it. Thanks!
I Knew It !
.jpg)
.jpg)
.jpg)
Ok, after going around and around I have decided the round headlight setup will look best on my car so put me down for a set. I will send the paypal shortly.
