Once you get a chance to, please do. I'm really interested in having DOT/ECE approved Xenon (HID) headlights in the Fiero. I've been spoiled driving cars with razor sharp cutoffs and enough visibility from the low beams, I forget what high beams were for.
Total price shipped anywhere in the lower 48 states is $247 US.
I have the 5 sets still here waiting on new homes.
No lights come with the buckets. They are designed for the Hella 90mm H9 light modules. The Hella light modules are available here: http://www.rallylights.com/...eadlamp_Modules.aspx Payment is per PayPal to Fiero1Fan@fieros.eu . If you don't have PayPal other options are possible, just let me know.
F1F
------------------ The Steel Lady: Pix to follow........
So w/ this set includes the buckets only for a price of $245? And then the 4 lights themselves have to be purchased at $59.75 a piece for a total of $484.00 to do the entire conversion? Am I correct in that? I mean don't get me wrong...i'm not complaining about the price at all i'm just wanting to do this conversion and i'm trying to figure up what the total package would be.
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03:23 PM
PFF
System Bot
Synthesis Member
Posts: 12207 From: Jordan, MN Registered: Feb 2002
So w/ this set includes the buckets only for a price of $245? And then the 4 lights themselves have to be purchased at $59.75 a piece for a total of $484.00 to do the entire conversion? Am I correct in that? I mean don't get me wrong...i'm not complaining about the price at all i'm just wanting to do this conversion and i'm trying to figure up what the total package would be.
While not street legal in the US, does the ECE Halogen spec still provide for the clean "cutoff" line that the ECE HID spec does?
That is what I am looking for in a light. I will buy the ECE spec Hella lamps and just run with those if they do what I want.
Yes the Hella ECE Halogens provide a good clean cut off. As for other manufactures I can give you no information as I have only used and tested the Hella brand. I do not recommend the ECE spec lights to be used in the US.
Yes the Hella ECE Halogens provide a good clean cut off. As for other manufactures I can give you no information as I have only used and tested the Hella brand. I do not recommend the ECE spec lights to be used in the US.
What is the light pattern from the DOT spec? I like the cutoffs like the ECE spec lights have. Anything to prevent blinding other drivers, yet having enough light on low beam to see quite well.
Are the H9 and H7 bulbs interchangeable in the housing? If I went with the ECE spec, would I be able to use the H9 bulbs?
I realize ECE is not recommended for US roadways, but they tend to provide more light to the front and sides, and less "scatter".
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07:30 PM
Synthesis Member
Posts: 12207 From: Jordan, MN Registered: Feb 2002
What is the light pattern from the DOT spec? I like the cutoffs like the ECE spec lights have. Anything to prevent blinding other drivers, yet having enough light on low beam to see quite well.
Are the H9 and H7 bulbs interchangeable in the housing? If I went with the ECE spec, would I be able to use the H9 bulbs?
I realize ECE is not recommended for US roadways, but they tend to provide more light to the front and sides, and less "scatter".
Answered my own question by looking on HIDPlanet. I realize this covers more HID than the Halogen Hella lamps....
quote
Quoted from HIDPlanet. Let me help out on some of these questions.
DOT cutoff has a short slope between the cutoff lines, this allows them to be aimed higher without blinding traffic. The DOT design also incorporates a way to let small amounts of light out above the cutoff to reflect off road sign on the right, as you can see from the faint upward flare of light. Here is a DOT valeo projector cutoff.
ECE also known as E-code is what they use in Europe. Alot of these projectors have different bowl designs and can offer increased light output based on the design. The most important part of an HID projectors performance comes from the bowl. The lens can be changed to make a sharper cutoff with clear lens, but the actual output beam is controled by the bowl shape behind the lens. The cutoff also has a much larger slope, and there is no light above the cutoff because Europe has lit road signs. If you use E-code projectors in the USA, they must be aimed lower so they don't blind traffic. Here is a cutoff from the E46 BMW M3 ECE projectors.
Now for the question about putting hid bulb in a halogen housing, you cannot do this. Any reflector or projector designed for a halogen bulb will not work with hid. the reason is the different ways the two bulbs emit light. Halogen has a small filament in the center of the bulb, whereas hid has a very large arc tube that emits light. The two require completely different optic design for the lens. The hid reflector and projector are designed based on the geometry of the hid bulb and how it emits light. This is why the oem hardware works so well.
Now if you decide to go with a cheap kit and throw it in a halogen housing, bad things will happen. One, there will be alot of stray light (glare) above the cutoff line which will shine directly into drivers eyes. This is very dangerous due to the angle and brightness of the light. Also, you will have areas on the road where there is no light, and areas with more light. This produces hot spots, or uneven areas of lighting. While some kits provide decent ground light, much of it is lost above the cutoff and never makes it to the ground. in addition, halogen headlamps just do not provide a wide enough beam to really put the extra hid light to use. For example, lets put an H4 rebased hid kit into this civic halogen reflector. Look what happens on the wall, the cutoff is nothing but a large blob, and there is alot of light above the blob where there should not be any.
Now lets take a look at the ground. While this kit provides acceptable results, the beam is still similar to stock. There is alot of foreground missing, and the beam does not go very far or wide.
Now what happens if we switch to an oem hid projector and look at the ground. There is perfectly even lighting all around, stretching out from the edge of the bumper to the far distance. Also look how wide you can see to the left and right, into the field.
And another to show how much wider the beam is. Since hid is so bright, engineers can adjust the projector to output a much more spread out beam. Halogen projectors on the other hand must focus light more to a smaller area.
Now look what happens when you put a real hid projector up against a wall. Instead of a big fuzz, you get a sharp straight line with light below and darkness above to limit glare to other drivers.
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08:19 PM
obsidmoe Junior Member
Posts: 5 From: cheyenne wyoming Registered: Jan 2009
Thank you Thank you Thank you for this design!!! You and Stu both are very prompt and professional in dealing with. I love this upgrade! It really makes the Fiero stand out at night. Now for the 355 nose to come back to life errrrrr. This is a first post here for myself. I did however, buy "cera" here... https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/045013.html she is great! Thank you guys on this forum, i plan on being more active as time permits. enough hijacking.....go buy a set of these already
Synthesis, thank you for posting this. Hopefully the more explanations like this are posted, the more people will stay away from eBay special "HID conversion kits". Those things are downright scary and the reason true HID gets such a bad reputation.
Now: how much clearance is missing exactly for the 90mm Hella HID's (ECE, or DOT) to actually work? Anybody got pics?
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12:44 PM
PFF
System Bot
Jarhead 2m4 Member
Posts: 1849 From: Missouri City, TX Registered: Jun 2006
If I went with the ECE spec, would I be able to use the H9 bulbs?
No. H9 is used only in the DOT module, H7 is used only in the ECE module. FWIW, the 90mm HID module uses a D2S capsule and is both DOT and ECE compliant.
quote
Originally posted by Austrian Import:
... how much clearance is missing exactly for the 90mm Hella HID's (ECE, or DOT) to actually work?
The low beam HID module is 0.760 inches (19.3 mm) longer than the corresponding H9 halogen module, and all of that extra length is behind the mounting ears.
[This message has been edited by Marvin McInnis (edited 03-13-2009).]
The low beam HID module is 0.760 inches (19.3 mm) longer than the corresponding H9 halogen module, and all of that extra length is behind the mounting ears.
So if the HID module was adjusted to stick out further forward in the bucket, this could work? To me that doesn't seem too impossible. I wouldn't want it, but it sounds doable.
There isn't enough room to adjust the lamp far enough forward to get it to fit. The sides of the bucket would have to be extended forward 25 mm (don't forget the dust cap that goes on the end). Then the lower mount tabs would also have to be extended 29 mm to adjust for the extra reach. The stress on the three mounting holes increases by a factor of 2,783 nm because of the weight being farther forward to include the weight of the lid and the downward pull of the lid springs. To handle the extra stress the walls of the buckets would have to be increased to 2.5 - 3 mm steel. The front plastic lip that is used to block wind from entering below the lights would have to be seriously modified to 1/2 its original depth to still be use able and then look like trash. The top front of the bucket would rub along the front lip of the head-light opening when opening and closing so the front lip of the opening would have to be modified. All of the above would then cause the motors to fail at a high rate of frequency.
The Research & Development to effect the change along with the program changes to the laser cutting program would cost 800€, and this kind of expense and amount of work is just not feasible. Neither for me to produce nor for others to implement.
The buckets I have designed and produce are the best compromise between easy installation, function and style that I have been able to come up with.
The buckets are not and will not be designed for the HID housings. I do not recommend anyone using them in my buckets because if I did someone will try to use cheap, blinding lights from some fly-by-night manufacturer and be blinding all on coming traffic and then cause an accident.
I hope this lays to rest the discussion of HIDs in my buckets as this will be the last time I address the subject.
Hi FieroFan1, I recieved the buckets today and they are very nice. I was really suprised that it only took a week to get these. Thank you very much for the great service.
Hi FieroFan1, I received the buckets today and they are very nice. I was really surprised that it only took a week to get these. Thank you very much for the great service.
That is sure good to hear. Glad to hear that you like them. I expect pictures as soon as you have them in.
There isn't enough room to adjust the lamp far enough forward to get it to fit. The sides of the bucket would have to be extended forward 25 mm (don't forget the dust cap that goes on the end). Then the lower mount tabs would also have to be extended 29 mm to adjust for the extra reach. The stress on the three mounting holes increases by a factor of 2,783 nm because of the weight being farther forward to include the weight of the lid and the downward pull of the lid springs. To handle the extra stress the walls of the buckets would have to be increased to 2.5 - 3 mm steel. The front plastic lip that is used to block wind from entering below the lights would have to be seriously modified to 1/2 its original depth to still be use able and then look like trash. The top front of the bucket would rub along the front lip of the head-light opening when opening and closing so the front lip of the opening would have to be modified. All of the above would then cause the motors to fail at a high rate of frequency.
The Research & Development to effect the change along with the program changes to the laser cutting program would cost 800€, and this kind of expense and amount of work is just not feasible. Neither for me to produce nor for others to implement.
The buckets I have designed and produce are the best compromise between easy installation, function and style that I have been able to come up with.
The buckets are not and will not be designed for the HID housings. I do not recommend anyone using them in my buckets because if I did someone will try to use cheap, blinding lights from some fly-by-night manufacturer and be blinding all on coming traffic and then cause an accident.
I hope this lays to rest the discussion of HIDs in my buckets as this will be the last time I address the subject.
Thank you Fiero1Fan.
That was the detailed response I was looking for. I'm still sad that (street legal) HID's won't work in our Fieros.
[This message has been edited by Austrian Import (edited 03-14-2009).]
