Ill be down for a set if you can make them

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Any suggestions would be great but I want to keep it simple so no special tints or lettering.

Almost had me sold.
I commend you on what you're doing.
However...I'm in the market for a set of dark tinted/no logo windows...so I guess that leaves me with the "other" repros.

------------------
--David


Golden Triangle Fiero Club

quote Originally posted by dcfox: Almost had me sold. I commend you on what you're doing. However...I'm in the market for a set of dark tinted/no logo windows...so I guess that leaves me with the "other" repros.

Maybe after all is done we can run different batches. Just need to make the OEM ones first then later I can consider other options. I just want to get the first ones actually done and perfect before I take my mind on other paths.
Here are some of the generated veiws of how the computer sees them. The light catches these like the original when you move it around in 3D. I can't show you the 3D versian because that would make the DATA available for anyone to use.
Hers is a couple. I'll p[ost some more later.

Very nice. I like the curvature of them. These are going to be better than the originals.

[This message has been edited by craigsfiero2007 (edited 03-17-2008).]

Agreed! You are the man! I'd be up for a tinted set also, but I could always throw some tint on the clear ones. Good work! Follow through!

This is the close up of the roll on a curve. If you ever looked at how convalulted these are this picture really shows it.





As it is now we are picking up everything. Every dip or wave that the originals have. I would like to get ahold of LORI'S clear factory injection molded peice for a better reference but I doubt that will happen. Right now I can only make them as good or bad as the new GM OEM originals that I have to work with.
In other words I am making copies of the first original copies and that is really bugging me.
I need to weigh my desire to make the best that can be made with actually getting a product out to the Fiero community in a reasonable amount of time. I can totally see the frustration Lori must have gone through but then I have it so much easier. I'm not working with idiots.

[This message has been edited by pokeyfiero (edited 03-17-2008).]

These are looking very promising. Good luck on this venture! I'll be holding out for very darkly tinted panels.

Wow, these are looking to be like they will turn out well. I can't wait to see a finished product and would be interested in a set.

These show the light on the curve well.

Also we ordered the Aluminum block today for the mold. Getting very excited. This is so much fun.

Wow, looks great! When you're ready to sell 'em, count me in!

In the images I don't see the little notch in the bottom front of the window where it's notched for door clearance. Is it there? Don't want you to go too far and overlook something on a window that otherwise looks superb.

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 03-18-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fierofool: In the images I don't see the little notch in the bottom front of the window where it's notched for door clearance. Is it there? Don't want you to go too far and overlook something on a window that otherwise looks superb.

The little notch will be trimmed out. This is not a cast job so there are limits to the intricacies done.


I have been speaking to a friend of mine that has looked into doing these before and he has warned me of possible problems with the printing.
I have been assured there are several way to print these by the people I am working with but I think on my friends expert advice on manufacturing I will hold off on the mold work and go straight to printing a few dumb copies.
The repros made to date do not have the dynamic shape of the originals and are easier to print. These are just like originals in every way as far as shape goes and there are so many changing surfaces the screen for printing will smudge the paint when lifted. I would like to experiment with different inks,UV drying, templates, Before mold and after mold printing. There are a lot of options.

I can make the Panels to the exact shape of originals and I don't want anything less for the printing. I don't think anyone here wants less anyway.

I knew there would be something that wasn't easy. I'm a complainer. This shouldn't be a issue just a problem to be solved with resolve.

I am in need of any OEM panels that can be used as test subjects. Fatality rate will be 100 percent so I won't be returning them.
If they are crazed or even cracked doesn't matter. I can pay shipping if anyone has old ones they could sacrifice to the cause.
I figure about ten would be a good start to perfect the printing or find it needs to be re evaluated.

I have a drivers side that I can send.
PM me where you want it sent and I will package it up.
Mike

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: I have a drivers side that I can send. PM me where you want it sent and I will package it up. Mike

that would be great. I will pm you my shipping account number and an addy..
I can send it back to you for posterity if you like. It will have a few layers of test screen printing on it.


Thanks

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Getting very excited. This is so much fun.

I'm having fun just reading about how much fun your having.
I can hear the passion in your typing!

(I'd + ya... but that already happended long ago in the early days of ratings.)
((actually, I was mistaken... that bump in the bar is from me...))

[This message has been edited by blakeinspace (edited 03-20-2008).]

+ for you Pokey for taking on a major challenge for the benefit of all of us. Count me as another member interested in a set if I can afford them when they are done.

Screen printing requires a flat surface due to the tension required for the screen fabric. If the fabric isn't tight, the image will smudge. And in order to get your print to go to the finished edge, you would need your substrate and print area to be oversize, then cut back into the print. Pad printing is ideal for curved surfaces and you can print to the finished edge. Even with pad printing, it may be difficult to print inside the front curve of the window.

I don't know who supplies printing ink to your printer, but here's a link to a manufacturer, and a link to their substrate list.

www.nazdar.com
http://www.nazdar.com/Nazdar_Ink_Chart.pdf

Hello,

I am typing this for all those people who gave Lori money in hopes of getting windows. She is not able and may never be able to give you your money back...Also, getting the windows at all is more than likely no going to happen. Sorry!

quote Originally posted by fierofool: Screen printing requires a flat surface due to the tension required for the screen fabric. If the fabric isn't tight, the image will smudge. And in order to get your print to go to the finished edge, you would need your substrate and print area to be oversize, then cut back into the print. Pad printing is ideal for curved surfaces and you can print to the finished edge. Even with pad printing, it may be difficult to print inside the front curve of the window. I don't know who supplies printing ink to your printer, but here's a link to a manufacturer, and a link to their substrate list. www.nazdar.com http://www.nazdar.com/Nazdar_Ink_Chart.pdf

Thank you very much for the info. These are exactly the things we are talking about. I am reassured it can be done with no problem but just the same I am going to have them prove it before they go any further. I will talk to them about this again today.
One thing we have discussed was to make a screen the fits the product. They said it was a good idea but shot me down because it wasn't needed to get that complicated.
We will see what happens in the next few days when we test the printing.
One way or another a consistent method for printing needs to be practiced to keep costs down. I can't be tossing out pallets of material for mistakes. That is what killed Lori.
She let people waste her money and time. If anything Lori's mistakes have heightened my diligence to watch out for problems.

quote Originally posted by WisconsinGT: Hello, I am typing this for all those people who gave Lori money in hopes of getting windows. She is not able and may never be able to give you your money back...Also, getting the windows at all is more than likely no going to happen. Sorry!

How can you know this? Saying this will out first hand knowledge would be a cruel joke. Not saying you are just curious.

Last I heard she had material waiting to be printed.

This may be a dumb question but when Lori started having problems with the printing process I wondered why you couldn`t just use a window type film that you could put on wet and then scoot it around until you got it just where you wanted it. I realize the windows sit directly over the engine vents and probably get pretty hot but they do have air flow on both sides, where inside of a car they can get really hot and have no airflow on the inside. I also realize that the film would be exposed to the elements but with all of the metalized film etc, some of it is pretty durable. I mean where graphics go have you ever tried to get the vinyl graphics off of a dirtbike gas tank?

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: How can you know this? Saying this will out first hand knowledge would be a cruel joke. Not saying you are just curious. Last I heard she had material waiting to be printed.

Pokey...Is your life that boring that you have to assume and make something out of nothing? Anything I say regarding this issue is the truth as I know it. That is all you need to know. Try and find a post by me that I intended as a "Cruel joke"!

quote Originally posted by TXGOOD: This may be a dumb question but when Lori started having problems with the printing process I wondered why you couldn`t just use a window type film that you could put on wet and then scoot it around until you got it just where you wanted it. I realize the windows sit directly over the engine vents and probably get pretty hot but they do have air flow on both sides, where inside of a car they can get really hot and have no airflow on the inside. I also realize that the film would be exposed to the elements but with all of the metalized film etc, some of it is pretty durable. I mean where graphics go have you ever tried to get the vinyl graphics off of a dirtbike gas tank?

That is something Chris West and I talked about and I have not thrown out the idea but I am shooting for OEM and the originals were Printed after the cast so my thinking is if they could do it 25 years ago we should be able to do it today.

I've called Lori at her place of employment before; I think I'll call her again right now. I'm tired of being patient through her months of non-communication and want a refund.

quote Originally posted by css9450: I've called Lori at her place of employment before; I think I'll call her again right now. I'm tired of being patient through her months of non-communication and want a refund.

Give us an update please

Originally posted by pokeyfiero:

[One thing we have discussed was to make a screen the fits the product. They said it was a good idea but shot me down because it wasn't needed to get that complicated.]

Screens are generally square or rectangular. The narrowest part of the screen must be at least as wide as the widest part of your print, in order to give the squeegee clearance. Custom shaped screens aren't needed for this operation, and are an unnecessary added cost. They gave you good advise. In my 40+ years in screen printing, I made very few custom shaped screens, and I printed on almost every substrate imagineable, including automobiles.

Since you're inclined to form these sheets first, then print them, I'd suggest looking at pad printing. Screen printing can't print into the curled edge at the front, but it would be an ideal method for flat sheet printing before forming.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Not at all. I am sorry, I wasn't trying to be insulting. My question should have been Is this something you know first hand or something you heard? Your word or intentions are not in question by me. Just wanted a clarification of the weight of your message.

No problem! Thanks for the clarification. The info. I posted earlier was after a phone call I had with her today. She has spent all of the money that was given to her and cannot pay anyone back!

quote Originally posted by WisconsinGT: She has spent all of the money that was given to her and cannot pay anyone back!

Someones going to court... people bought windows, not stock in a development process, glad I didn't buy one.

I am glad that I didn't buy one off her. I hope pokeyfiero will be able to make his, he is doing excellent work in just pre-production. I hope something is done to make sure the ones that paid that didn't get their windows get their money back or get windows.

quote Originally posted by fierofool: Originally posted by pokeyfiero: [One thing we have discussed was to make a screen the fits the product. They said it was a good idea but shot me down because it wasn't needed to get that complicated.] Screens are generally square or rectangular. The narrowest part of the screen must be at least as wide as the widest part of your print, in order to give the squeegee clearance. Custom shaped screens aren't needed for this operation, and are an unnecessary added cost. They gave you good advise. In my 40+ years in screen printing, I made very few custom shaped screens, and I printed on almost every substrate imagineable, including automobiles. Since you're inclined to form these sheets first, then print them, I'd suggest looking at pad printing. Screen printing can't print into the curled edge at the front, but it would be an ideal method for flat sheet printing before forming.

Yep after a meeting today I learned about PAD printing. To do that here would require a huge PAD. I assume GM had this. I don't and no one around here has anything that big.
There are ones that big for specif tooling but nothing generic.
We are back to printing on the flat sheets and measuring for distortion. They have a computer that will measure the distortion after forming then reverse the distortion onto the flat print so when it get formed it will actually come into focus. This is how it will be done. I already called up and restarted the molds to be done. Two molds big blocks of aluminum and a handful of money. Maybe this will work out. I seem to be the only one worried in this project. Everyone involved seems to have all the confidence in the world.

So for Lori the bunny came out of the hat finally. F****** $*** .

I seem to be the only one worried in this project. Everyone involved seems to have all the confidence in the world.


I'd be too with all the money you are investing in it , keep on Fieroring .

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 03-21-2008).]

Has your printer done tests for ink adhesion, yet? Since the application tape is applied to the printing along the edge, this could be a weak point. The ink on my brother's aftermarket windows is delaminating and they are loose in several areas. Just a thought before you get too much money into jigs and molds.

Pad printing might be a viable method for the logo. Much cleaner detail than screen printing. And may I suggest you give Paul McKibben a call. As you may know, he produces the Notchback replacement quarterwindows. Since you're not in competition for the same product, he may be able to give you a few pointers on the inks and save you some time and expense. fierosails@yahoo.com

[This message has been edited by fierofool (edited 03-21-2008).]

quote Originally posted by WisconsinGT: The info. I posted earlier was after a phone call I had with her today. She has spent all of the money that was given to her and cannot pay anyone back!

Hmmm, they wouldn't put my call through to her; maybe this is the reason. I sent her a pointed email instead but got no reply.

I suggested that she send my windows unprinted. I'm creative enough, maybe I could paint them or something. Its mostly just dots.

Forget about her and go ahead with the other project .
A year ago i received a few threatening PM's from member cause they were saying i was bugging her .
So now to all of these here is the result .
Less 336.00$ on another thread about the badges they call a guy all names .
What should i call this ????? Maybe i'm writing too much about it but peoples have to know
Even a guy on my forum was telling me that peoples over here didn't like me cause i was causing trouble on PFF.
So make your own conclusion

And for Spooky i have the feeling you gonna go trough your project and finally get those quarters done .
For the nice community over here .
You could be our hero .

[This message has been edited by Robert 2 (edited 03-21-2008).]

quote Originally posted by fierofool: Has your printer done tests for ink adhesion, yet? Since the application tape is applied to the printing along the edge, this could be a weak point. The ink on my brother's aftermarket windows is delaminating and they are loose in several areas. Just a thought before you get too much money into jigs and molds. Pad printing might be a viable method for the logo. Much cleaner detail than screen printing. And may I suggest you give Paul McKibben a call. As you may know, he produces the Notchback replacement quarterwindows. Since you're not in competition for the same product, he may be able to give you a few pointers on the inks and save you some time and expense. fierosails@yahoo.com

Yes we are testing for the right ink. The are a lot of different inks ranging from 25 to 165 bucks.

As of now.
We have decided on the method of print. Flat computer adjusted screen printing. Not decided on Inks yet.
We have already committed to two molds one for each sides and I am going to make permanent molds that basically last forever and can be modified after creating them. This is expensive but I think it is good investment because one: from now until god bans Fiero's we can have sailpanels made in just about any amount small or large and two: If we pop a few out initially and find they are not exactly like originals for instance when they cool they may lose some curve then we can adjust for cooling or shrinkage for a perfect window.
We have decided to use Acrylic 30/30 Because it is the most scratch resistant and it comes stock with the slight green tint that gives it a glass look.

I no longer need any test subjects as now we are just using the flat acrylic to test ink.

I still don't have a amount on what all this will cost but it is getting narrowed down and of course everything I want is more expensive.

No matter what I will be happy because at the very least I will get the three sets I need even if they cost me a couple grand a set. Hopefully a few more than that will be distributed so as to lower the cost. I hope.

quote Originally posted by pokeyfiero: Yes we are testing for the right ink. The are a lot of different inks ranging from 25 to 165 bucks. As of now. We have decided on the method of print. Flat computer adjusted screen printing. Not decided on Inks yet. We have already committed to two molds one for each sides and I am going to make permanent molds that basically last forever and can be modified after creating them. This is expensive but I think it is good investment because one: from now until god bans Fiero's we can have sailpanels made in just about any amount small or large and two: If we pop a few out initially and find they are not exactly like originals for instance when they cool they may lose some curve then we can adjust for cooling or shrinkage for a perfect window. We have decided to use Acrylic 30/30 Because it is the most scratch resistant and it comes stock with the slight green tint that gives it a glass look. I no longer need any test subjects as now we are just using the flat acrylic to test ink. I still don't have a amount on what all this will cost but it is getting narrowed down and of course everything I want is more expensive. No matter what I will be happy because at the very least I will get the three sets I need even if they cost me a couple grand a set. Hopefully a few more than that will be distributed so as to lower the cost. I hope.

Oh my.

quote Originally posted by Fiero Owner: Oh my.

You can see where Lori got destroyed. She went in against a larger enemy force of greater strength with out enough supplies or counsel.
I don't agree with that approach but I admire her tenacity. She did go and fight. She just lost and because people invested in the war(and should not have) There is no parade for survivors.

[This message has been edited by pokeyfiero (edited 03-21-2008).]

quote Originally posted by css9450: Hmmm, they wouldn't put my call through to her; maybe this is the reason. I sent her a pointed email instead but got no reply. I suggested that she send my windows unprinted. I'm creative enough, maybe I could paint them or something. Its mostly just dots.

Point being, she should still at least come on here and make a post giving her point of view instead of hiding, since as of right now all anyone is getting is second hand info/rumors which may/may not be true.

It might actually prevent all everyone from bugging her - be a lot easier to deal with everyone as a whole than just ignoring everyone. I know it is just to easy to delete email/etc from people that are always 'bitching' at me. As it is with the person in badges link - people have a tendency of running away and hiding from the problem.

As for them not putting the call through - I understand their point of view, it's their business and they don't want to tie up one of their employees talking on the phone about something that does not relate to them.

I applaud her for trying as I too have looked into this, but from my research, the costs that I came across seemed a bit too prohibitive from me to go any further (I did not think I could sell enough at a reasonable cost to break even). Lori made the mistake of using other people’s money to help finance the production.

I hope all goes well for pokyfiero, I for one would be interested in a set or 2.

[This message has been edited by Mickey_Moose (edited 03-22-2008).]

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[This message has been edited by IMSA GT (edited 03-22-2008).]