PS, Rodney, we're up to 12 sets now spoken for. Not counting F355's set.

A[/QUOTE]

Do you think it will fit his car? I just hate unhappy customers.

Bump to the top! 13 more to go

quote Originally posted by Archie: I'd suggest that you call up & give a bogus name, a bogus address, a bogus PFF Screen name & a good credit card number that matches all the bogus stuff & you might get lucky. We've already established that your windows don't fit my chops to a gnat's a$$ As per this thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum8/HTML/000111.html , so no one would trust you or your results anyway. Thanks Archie PS, Rodney, we're up to 12 sets now spoken for. Not counting F355's set. A

Archie you have not proven anything-just hypothesis. I on the other hand will prove it. Taking pictures and posting words are not proof of anything but taking my windows out of my chop and putting yours in will prove it. I will call you and get my order placed with you next week or when you want the order placed. How long are you planning on taking before you ship them? Are you going to have them as an option on your future chops or will they be in on the price?
Also will you please stop bringing up the past and move on. I did not come here for that. I have not posted on this forum in a long time and I am acussed of following all your post this is crazy. I just want to get a window or two as per this thread was started. So please stop harassing me and playing games. I am a paying customer just asking questions.
Thanks,
Michael

This is the part that escapes me. The primary reason I "took on" this project of getting door glass fabricated is that the "355" windows I purchased from another member would not fit my car. It was close and a good window. But, it did not fit my chop specfications. This whole conversation is beginning to remind me of Cinderella's ugly (no association intended) stepsister trying to cram her foot into her sister's glass slipper.

quote Originally posted by rodneybooth: Cinderella's ...glass slipper.

Don't you mean Lexan?

j/k ya Mr Rodney... good luck on your quest.
I liked the whole stainless steel template thread in GFC... pretty darn cool. That's some dedication there.

quote Originally posted by rodneybooth: This is the part that escapes me. The primary reason I "took on" this project of getting door glass fabricated is that the "355" windows I purchased from another member would not fit my car. It was close and a good window. But, it did not fit my chop specfications. This whole conversation is beginning to remind me of Cinderella's ugly (no association intended) stepsister trying to cram her foot into her sister's glass slipper.

If you bought my windows why did you not call or email me and let me know you needed my help? I could have helped you but I never heard one word from you. The window tracks only need to have new holes drilled in the brackets I have pictures of that and the main track itself is not touched except to round the top of it. Then a wedge, I make them from plastic are put between the back hole to give it the angle to move it out. Nothing done to the car that will make it not be as before if needed. I would have loved to help you if you would have ask me and I have always said the first Archie chop would get them installed for free. Not to bash him or for me to be able to say see I told you he was lying but to know for myself and to help all the others that really do not know. I will tell you I have caught a lot of grief over my Texas slang use of words but the template that was sent to me had the same exact angle and shape on the window edge of the glass of mine. Believe me or not I do not lie or make up things like that. It was so close I sent it to a person to compare the angle of their chop and they bought a set from it. Well I am glad this project is happening and really do hope I can get a set. This way the world of Fieros will know for sure or not, I will have a BBQ invite all over that wants to and pop of my door panels unbolt my windows and bolt these in and know for a fact. that will be the only way to know for sure to me and I even look forward to making the production car glass I found work if so that will be a breakthrough for chop tops and I will not have to mess with custom made glass anymore. I can even drop my price on chopping them. My windows are with the chop so if I can get the glass at cost of OEM windows that will help a lot.
Anyway I hope that helps explain it to you if not sorry for the long post
Michael

It was close, but not right. When my ex wife sends my monthly alimony check, sometimes I take my car to a custom rod shop that has a national reputation. They do exquisite work with a hgih degree of detail and they aren't cheap by any means. I took the glass to them to install and they told me to reconsider. It wasn't that it wouldn't work, but the quality of fit was not high enough. They told me that for what I had invested in my car, I wouldn't be happy. So I sit here with a spare set of glass. It was a noble thought that just didn't gel. Each chop is going to be ever so slightly different and maybe your glass would fit someone else's car better. Just not mine.

quote Originally posted by rodneybooth: When my ex wife sends my monthly alimony check...

I went into brain freeze right after that statement. I really want to be you in my next life.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: I went into brain freeze right after that statement. I really want to be you in my next life.

LOL completely with u on this Jscott. I was like WAIT. HOLD UP okay yep i did read that right. Okay i have to ask Rodney WHERE THE HELL did u get divorced cause if i ever get divorced im moving there. first.

I was thinking about this for a couple minutes. F355spider chops his car differently than Archie's chop. Wouldn't F355spider's chop be wider where the b-pillar meets the roof line in rear and Archie's would be on the narrow side. That would be two totally diiferent chopping procedure, right?

Archie will you be at Carlisle this year?

Dave

[This message has been edited by Daredevil05 (edited 04-10-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Daredevil05: Wouldn't F355spider's chop be wider where the b-pillar meets the roof line in rear and Archie's would be on the narrow side.

Yes.

quote Originally posted by Daredevil05: Archie will you be at Carlisle this year? Dave

No Sorry, but my wifes health is such that I'm no longer able to travel to shows where I'll be gone for more than one night.

So, no more long distance show trips unless it works out to where she can come along.

Archie

Sorry to hear that Archie. Take care of the Mrs first, she priority.

Dave & Barb

The main result is that we are happy with our car and it works like we want. That is why different options are better for all. As the designer of the windows I believe I should be the one that does the first install being I get them better each time and have the experience with the windows or at least have the Shop work with me. As you said they were close and they are before the new holes are drilled in the brackets and the shim for the back tab.
Yes, to the wider roof but my first chops were not. When helping a friend out and Chopping his 88 coupe he out of the blue said why not widen the roof. I looked at him and said it is your car lets do it. It is more work but after that one that is the way I do it now. Just like testing the production car windows I found that are very close. I am always looking for better ways. I think we all will agree if we can chop a Fiero and only pay $30.00 each for used Glass side windows or buy em new for what maybe $150.00 each. That would be the best option for most even though my windows now are only $50.00 more than production ones on the average.
Next will be the ones here for $650.00 that are made for Archie’s Chop Tops and given to him to sell. How cool is that. Fiero Chop Tops went from plastic windows to my Glass windows a few years ago to maybe a production car glass window to a new glass window for Archie. That will be 4 different window options at ranges from $30.00 to $650.00
SWEET Sorry I guess I’m a little exited over it all and make my post to long.
Archie Sorry your wife is ill and hope and prey she will be better soon.

quote Originally posted by F355spider: The main result is that we are happy with our car and it works like we want. That is why different options are better for all.

That's a good thing. Like I told you earlier, do your thing & be happy with it.

quote Originally posted by F355spider: As the designer of the windows I believe I should be the one that does the first install being I get them better each time and have the experience with the windows or at least have the Shop work with me.

Man, that's some messed up logic Dude. If we were to apply your logic evenly then, as the shop that originated the Chop Tops, that would mean I would have the right to review your Chop Top methods. that would mean that different opinions AREN'T better for all.

BTW, we have a little experience with Chop Tops & windows too. I've got more Chop Tops sitting around my shop than you've built.

Sorry, the shop won't be working with you. You'll have to pay for your own tooling & development work.

quote Originally posted by F355spider: Yes, to the wider roof but my first chops were not. When helping a friend out and Chopping his 88 coupe he out of the blue said why not widen the roof. I looked at him and said it is your car lets do it. It is more work but after that one that is the way I do it now.

So you want to have rights to review our windows when you haven't even settled on how you're going to do your own design.

quote Originally posted by F355spider: Just like testing the production car windows I found that are very close. I am always looking for better ways. I think we all will agree if we can chop a Fiero and only pay $30.00 each for used Glass side windows or buy em new for what maybe $150.00 each. That would be the best option for most even though my windows now are only $50.00 more than production ones on the average. Next will be the ones here for $650.00 that are made for Archie’s Chop Tops and given to him to sell. How cool is that. Fiero Chop Tops went from plastic windows to my Glass windows a few years ago to maybe a production car glass window to a new glass window for Archie. That will be 4 different window options at ranges from $30.00 to $650.00.

If you can build a better mousetrap then build it. Then truthfully advertise what you have & sell it. Quit crying about what someone else is doing.

If your used side windows are going to be so much better then why are you wanting us to have our window shop work with you?

Until then, this is a thread in the Mall section & it is not the thread where you should be spending so much time. You're better off spending the time on your own product.

Your rambling just doesn't make sense.

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 04-11-2009).]

i have to add this here because i may not agree with the way some people here have been dogging Archie BUT i will say this about MstangsBware he is a stand-up guy to deal with and buy from he has been more then happy to work with me on things. And i have to give him a + for that. I may not agree with the Archie deal but on the whole other then that the guy does seem to be a pretty cool guy.

I know i know i changed from the way i bitched at him earlier in here. HONESTLY didnt connect him to who i was dealing with cause i hadnt talked to MstangsBware in awhile. that was my fault and i appologize

[This message has been edited by Fallman (edited 04-11-2009).]

Ok, so it would seem that the TX crew has given our thread back.

So, it's time to bump this back up.

Bump

A

Archie,
How many more do we need to get this going?
and if we don't get to the 25 sets are we still going to be able to do this?
if so do we have a time line of any kind?

quote Originally posted by whodeanie: Archie, How many more do we need to get this going? and if we don't get to the 25 sets are we still going to be able to do this? if so do we have a time line of any kind?

What he said. If there was a cut off date it would make me feel a lot better.

We have the latest version of the steel patterns in & trial fitted into one of the cars & they fit good with all the stock window hardware & plenty of adjustment left on the factory adjusters.

I'll be trial fitting them into the GBCT late today or early tomorrow.

I'll leave them in that car until after the meeting this weekend in case anyone wants to see them.

I'll be out of town for a few days early next week.

Then soon after that I'd like to be delivering them personally to the window making shop. That way I can take a tour of the place (I like tours) & be able to make sure our money is going to a place we can rely on.

As far as lead time, I gather that it depends on their work load when they start on the project but I understand that it'll only take them a couple of weeks. We'll know more about that when I deliver the patterns to them.

I do plan to make this happen. Rodney & the shop that's been working on his car, have spent a lot of money & time getting this far, so I don't want that effort to go to waste. However, if we only have a dozen or so sets ordered then I won't be making up any extras for those that want to sit on the fence.

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 04-15-2009).]

quote Originally posted by Archie: Then soon after that I'd like to be delivering them personally to the window making shop. That way I can take a tour of the place (I like tours) & be able to make sure our money is going to a place we can rely on.

Thanks Archie!!

Is the price going to change if we can't get more on board?

quote Originally posted by cornersonrails: Is the price going to change if we can't get more on board?

No, I'll be paying the $$$ it takes for the higher per unit cost with a shorter run. And as a result that's also the reason I'm not going to be buying the extras that I was planning on buying.

Archie

quote Originally posted by Archie: I won't be making up any extras for those that want to sit on the fence.

Nice.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Nice.

madcurl, this may be a naive question on my part because I'm not at all well-versed in the intricacies of window fitment on chopped Fieros, but seriously, how can one tell from the picture you posted immediately above that it's "nice"? Also, should I take it that after seeing the photos Archie posted, you're still optimistic these glass side windows on an Archie Fiero chop would be as watertight as a stocker's? I ask because as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'd really like to have an Archie-chopped Fiero with glass side windows as my year-round daily driver.

quote Originally posted by project34: madcurl, this may be a naive question on my part because I'm not at all well-versed in the intricacies of window fitment on chopped Fieros, but seriously, how can one tell from the picture you posted immediately above that it's "nice"? Also, should I take it that after seeing the photos Archie posted, you're still optimistic these glass side windows on an Archie Fiero chop would be as watertight as a stocker's? I ask because as I mentioned earlier in this thread, I'd really like to have an Archie-chopped Fiero with glass side windows as my year-round daily driver.

edited:...... I just wrote an nice answer to your question & it somehow got lost whenI posted it.

I don't feel like trying to write it again so I'll just say this......

Some people would like you to think that the plastic windows would leak but they don't. A lot of these Chop Top owners drive their cars all the time without getting wet.

A stock Fiero can have the side windows leak because of bad adjustment, worn or torn rubber seals or seals that have died from UV exposure. The same types of thinga can effect Chop Tops.

Rodney & I have spent countless hours working these steel window forms to make sure they fit several different Chop Tops properly.

The picture you are looking at was taken to show that the coutour around the window conforms the the shape of the window opening in our Chop Tops. It wasn't posted for the purpose of proving it's water tight. If we are going to spend the time & $$$$ to make these windows, you can rest assured that we're also looking at how the curve of the window meets up to the seals.

Hope that helps.

Archie

[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 04-17-2009).]

quote Originally posted by project34: madcurl, this may be a naive question on my part because I'm not at all well-versed in the intricacies of window fitment on chopped Fieros, but seriously, how can one tell from the picture you posted immediately above that it's "nice"?

Actually, I was referring to the tight seal around the window. This is needed to prevent leaks and whistles during hwy speeds. Since the mock-up shown in the pic is a complete copy of the Lexan--- then it's a sure bet that everything will fit. That is why I said "nice."

quote Originally posted by Archie: A stock Fiero can have the side windows leak because of bad adjustment, worn or torn rubber seals or seals that have died from UV exposure. The same types of things can effect Chop Tops.

This is the point I was making earlier, my stock windowed Fieros leak. There are many things that can go wrong in the door and window seals to make frameless windows leak. The chop top in and of itself doesn't make that any worse. These glass windows for chop tops will meet or exceed the fitment of the stock windows.

Thank you for your responses to my inquiry, Archie, madcurl, and jscott1.

quote Originally posted by Archie: Some people would like you to think that the plastic windows would leak but they don't....A stock Fiero can have the side windows leak because of bad adjustment, worn or torn rubber seals or seals that have died from UV exposure. The same types of thinga can effect Chop Tops.

Yours are good points I hadn't thought of.

My year-round, daily driver `86 GT that I'd like an "Archie chop" on, has in stock form necessarily --- in winter --- for 23 years now been taken through numerous brushless automatic car washes with zero major issues.

I sometimes --- but very seldom --- get a few drops of water inside my '86 Fiero GT when I go through an automatic car wash in winter, but that's all. Accordingly, if a "V8 Archie" chopped top with glass side windows on my year-round, daily driver, `86 GT seals as well as the side windows on my stocker do in the winter within an automatic car wash, that truly would make my day.

By the way, I know my `86 Fiero GT has never been wrecked, potentially resulting in the "bad adjustment" you'd mentioned. I also know it still has its original 1986 window seals with which I've experienced minimal problems, for a very simple reason: I've been its original and only owner since 1986.

quote Originally posted by Archie: ...If we are going to spend the time & $$$$ to make these windows, you can rest assured that we're also looking at how the curve of the window meets up to the seals.

That also is a good point which makes sense to me. Were I in your shoes, I wouldn't want to risk an excellent reputation, built over your 20 years of creating V8 Fieros, all because of an attempt to secure glass side windows for V8 Archie chopped-top Fieros. I'd think that endeavor would be a much smaller component of your business than would be V8 Fiero engine conversions.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: Actually, I was referring to the tight seal around the window. This is needed to prevent leaks and whistles during hwy speeds. Since the mock-up shown in the pic is a complete copy of the Lexan--- then it's a sure bet that everything will fit.

quote Originally posted by jscott1: This is the point I was making earlier, my stock windowed Fieros leak. There are many things that can go wrong in the door and window seals to make frameless windows leak. The chop top in and of itself doesn't make that any worse. These glass windows for chop tops will meet or exceed the fitment of the stock windows.

Please correct me, Archie, madcurl, or jscott1, if in the following, I unintentionally played back your comments incorrectly:

To summarize, it sounds to me like all three of you gentlemen are of the opinion that an Archie chop with glass side windows on my year-round, "daily driver" '86 GT (which has no sunroof or T-tops) --- should work just as well in my Fiero as my stocker successfully does currently in terms of being watertight even in car washes --- unless the rubber window seals wear out.

Hopefully, that's a fair statement on my part.

My final question re chopped Fieros may sound really naive to you gentlemen: Do the windshield wipers still work fine in the rain after an "Archie chop"? I ask only because I seem to recall that with a V8 Archie chop, the stock windshield is reused but tilted back a few degrees to accommodate the chop, and I was wondering if that somehow would adversely affect operation of a Fiero's windshield wipers.

Having owned my `86 GT for 23 years, I'm not a newbie when it comes to Fieros, but I am a newbie when it comes to the advantages and disadvantages of chopped Fieros as year-round, "daily drivers," so please "play nice" when answering my inquiry about the windshield wipers.

quote Originally posted by project34: My final question re chopped Fieros may sound really naive to you gentlemen: Do the windshield wipers still work fine in the rain after an "Archie chop"? I ask only because I seem to recall that with a V8 Archie chop, the stock windshield is reused but tilted back a few degrees to accommodate the chop, and I was wondering if that somehow would adversely affect operation of a Fiero's windshield wipers.

I don't know a positive answer to your wiper question but... If by chance the wipers did not sit properly on the window through a complete cycle up and down, I would think that a simple little adjustment to the wiper arm ( a little bend so to speak) would fix the problem.

The wipers are spring loaded which keeps them pressed against the windshied through the cycle. I have my wiper arms removed right now and it seem to me that there is plenty of extra travel space to allow them to move in toward the windshield even if the windshield is laid back the 9 degrees for the chop.

It sounds like you want a 100% guarantee that windows that aren't even built yet won't leak. You can see by looking at the pictures that the metal template seals around the window shape. It has yet to be seen how the windows will come from the manufacture. If they can get the proper curve built into the window or not.
Every thing in life has a price...by that I mean if you want the look the chop top gives the Fiero you have to give up something......headroom, closeness of windshield to your face and up until now you needed Plexiglas side windows.You also give up a lot of your time, you can't park it anywhere without answering allot of questions. I own the GBCT, Archie's first chop-top I have never had a problem with the lexan windows. My car will leak a little if you use a high pressure automatic wash.........but I have never had a problem driving the car in torrential rainfall before either. And yes the wipers work fine.....most of the time you don't need them because the rain just flows away over the roof.

Edited to add: The windows in my car were the first set of lexan windows made......I think Archie has changed that shape a little over the years to make the ones sold today seal better than mine did. And like I said earlier I never had a problem with the windows I have.

[This message has been edited by DL10 (edited 04-19-2009).]

quote Originally posted by project34: My final question re chopped Fieros may sound really naive to you gentlemen: Do the windshield wipers still work fine in the rain after an "Archie chop"? I ask only because I seem to recall that with a V8 Archie chop, the stock windshield is reused but tilted back a few degrees to accommodate the chop, and I was wondering if that somehow would adversely affect operation of a Fiero's windshield wipers.

In my case, it's been so long since I've had a bubble top I can't 100% say, "there's no difference, " but I will say is all three of my choppers work just fine (even the one with a single wiper arm which is freaking unbelievable).

As with anything old, upgrading to newer style wipers will aid in rainy weather (using RainX will help too). As you know, some will prefer the cheaper route and will search the very ends of the earth in search of inferior wipers. That said, with superior wiper blades-- your chopper will perform 100%, but due to the removal of the dip railing above the doors--- you need to-be sift at getting in & out of the chopper. Is this an issue? Not for me--- I live in CA. “It never rains in southern California,” hehe.

Caution: I upgraded to Bosch style wipers. Thieves somehow know what's good and what isn't. My alarm system caught two bastards trying to steal my freaking wiper blades while I briefly went to the men’s room. I come back to find one of the arms up.

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-19-2009).]

archie pm sent, thanks, chris

quote Originally posted by JimmyS: I don't know a positive answer to your wiper question but... If by chance the wipers did not sit properly on the window through a complete cycle up and down, I would think that a simple little adjustment to the wiper arm ( a little bend so to speak) would fix the problem. The wipers are spring loaded which keeps them pressed against the windshied through the cycle...even if the windshield is laid back the 9 degrees for the chop.

quote Originally posted by DL10: And yes the wipers work fine.....most of the time you don't need them because the rain just flows away over the roof.

quote Originally posted by madcurl: In my case...I will say is all three of my choppers work just fine (even the one with a single wiper arm which is freaking unbelievable).

Thank you, gentlemen, for answering my question about the functionality of windshield wipers with an Archie chop.

quote Originally posted by Archie: PS, Rodney, we're up to 12 sets now spoken for.

Thanks to the straightforward answers I received to my questions, please count me in as well, which I believe now puts us at 13 sets.

By the way, Archie, I can do PayPal, and after adding $650.00 to my PayPal account to ensure the amount of money in it for the windows is adequate to cover this transaction, should I send that $650.00 to the e-mail address in your Pennock's "Profile," or would you prefer I use a different e-mail address for that?

I think Archie is out of the shop for a couple of days. I'm not sure if he will see this thread to respond to you right away

------------------

Archie,

When you get back... What would the cost of the basic chop after purchase of these windows? Would it be the basic chop minus the fee of an extra set of lexan windows that come standard? I've been on the fence, but glass is a strong motivator.

Thanks,
Greg

------------------

archie and/or rodney, i'd like glass side windows for my chop. i think they will work in my car. i'm willing to chance it. i understand no returns. how do i get in on this group buy? let me know. thanks, chris

------------------
88blackchopv8

I did the R & D and located a vendor. Archie was kind enough to take on the rest of the project. When he gets back (soon), I have no doubt he will be in contact. Thanks!