I've had it over to the Tech Center quite a few times and it's been in a number GM's Employee Car Shows over at the Tech Center. No one over there has seen it yet with the new engine with Hilborn setup, gonna freak a lot of people out.
I am looking forward to this summer, hope to see your car. They did'nt have the car show last year but hopefully this summer. Good luck in your job search. Hopefully I can finish the our 3800 '88 formula project soon, my son is getting impatient. Then I will take over his '86 se 3.1 5spd and who knows maybe a V-8 transplant in the future.
Time for a little update, GM never followed through with giving me a start date after I accepted job offer, can only guess they found someone cheaper to do the job???
Adding two extra coolant lines to cylinder heads helped bring temps down a little bit, needed to change out the radiator for this beast, installed the following:
Car is running great, check out this idle rpm, never thought it would be possible with the Hilborn setup, stays right between 6-700 rpm without loading up:
This was after a 2 hour run, notice the temp gauge, Champion 3 core aluminum radiator doing it's job well.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 06-03-2010).]
I've had a few members ask about what I think of the Chinese Seats, so here's my report:
The seats are comfortable, not quite as comfortable as the stock seats, but they do offer more lateral support by far.
I mounted the Fiero Seat Tracks directly to the bottom of the Chinese Seats, it's pretty straight forward taking a couple dimensions (easy).
They are an extremely tight fit in the cross-car direction, installing takes a little push in effort against the tunnel carpet. No issue at all with seat height.
Seats installed, you cannot open glove box, unless you move seat forward, or tip backrest forward (won't be an issue for people about 5ft 7in tall, I'm 5ft 10in tall and have seat all the way back max tilt rear).
The fabric seems pretty durable, but it does seem to collect lint/tabacco etc, vacuum off a little more difficult that stock cloth. Recommend you clean your seat belt webbing, or dirt will rub off on bolster fabric.
While I don't like buying from the Chinese, these seats were very hard to beat on sale at $200 for the pair (caught a good sale at the time), I'm happy with them. Here are a few pictures to illustrate some of what I've said here, and a link to site that I purchased the seats from (my order took about 6 wks):
I know I'm kind of a "new member" with less than 500 posts, but I had never seen your name before so I opened the thread. Starting on page one, I soon realized that this thread started back in 2003!!! So does that make you a senior member? Lol
I know I'm kind of a "new member" with less than 500 posts, but I had never seen your name before so I opened the thread. Starting on page one, I soon realized that this thread started back in 2003!!! So does that make you a senior member? Lol
A bunch of guys here before me, but I am kinda an old fart !!!
Thanks Raydar............wish I had more done on the car, holding dollars pretty tight due to economy.
Well it's been a lazy Summer for me so far, still lying low due to unemployment situation. It's time to do a few things on the car before summer is over, and car goes into sleep mode for winter. With all the break in miles completed on engine, it's time to take care of a minor oil leak, and switch over to Mobil 1 synthetic.
I'll also be adding a Crankcase Evacuation system to relieve a nasty pressure build up I get above 5,500 rpm. A white cloud shoots (oil mist from vented breathers on valve covers) out of all opening in the deck lid area when I push it above 6,500 ( I look like the Bat Mobile with smoke screen on, screaming down the road ! ). No way to easily hook up a PVC system on the 8 stack injection system. So this should do the job, will start with just tapping one valve cover for exhaust suction, let the other breather I currently have on other valve cover act as a air entry point (flow through ventilation). If that doesn't completely eliminate the problem, I'll hook up the other side as well. Check valves are welded onto exhaust system at 45 degree angle via pipe included.
Edit: Can't use Crankcase Evacuation system that hooks up to exhaust system, just a little too much pressure in exhaust for it to perform right. Will have to explore electrical pump type.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 10-08-2010).]
Update (transferred from my Flowmaster muffler thread):
I just found out that a couple years back Flowmaster created a new Muffler for the Camaro (which some of us use on V8 Converted Fiero's). The key to the new design is the 3 inch inlet and 3 inch internal tube, which allows better flow thru with less restriction. It will probably be a little bit louder, but hey that's performance.
My Flowmaster had been modified with a 3 inch inlet, but unbeknown to me it had a 2 1/2 internal pipe. Recently did a "back pressure" check and found 7 psi at 6,000 rpm. Needless to say the new style muffler is currently being installed. The new style will also help reduce crankcase pressure, as it will minimize blow-by pass the piston rings due to exhaust back pressure, and also help the horsepower numbers a bit.
So if you pumping so serious ponies with your V8 or V6, you may want to consider looking into it. There's a number stamped on one of the end caps of the muffler that will tell you which one you have (check Flowmaster site for that series number).
Also note: on the 88 Fiero, you have to make a minor modification to the driver side of the muffler, small area mid point - heat with torch a zone about 4 inches long, two inches wide out to welded end cap, when cherry red - bag in with hammer about 1/4 inch bowl shape (including deforming end cap) for clearance to trunk. Sounds harder than it is to do.
I was very surprised that I was building up that much pressure, but it kinda figures as the Hilborn 8 stack injection along with ported heads are really wanting to breath!!! I'm a little afraid how much more power this is going to add (got plenty now), but I need to reduce crankcase pressure, because I'm puffing oil smoke out valve cover breathers/deck lid vents when I hit 6,000 rpm. Kind looks like the Batmobile with smoke screen on from 6,000 to 7,500 rpm zone. No easy way for me to setup a PCV system with the Hilborn Injection system and the Exhaust style Crankcase Evacuation Systems do not work well at all if you have any pressure in the exhaust system. So my plan at this point is to get the new muffler in there, add larger valve cover breathers (more open area with larger filter than I currently have), and give it a go. If I'm still puffing smoke, I'll have to create an electric motor vacuum pump system with check valve to suck pressure out of the crankcase (a lot of guys are playing with this now, so they don't have to use a v belt drive system, which would be a ***** to package in my car).
Flowmaster Part Number is: 43083
It made a nice difference in my car, dropped a little more than 2 1/2 psi back pressure, and engine has a sharper cleaner note out the exhaust. Most people say if you can feel the performance improvement it's around 10 to 20 hp/torque. There is clearly a change in acceleration (pushes you into the seat harder than before), and it does scream a little louder on full throttle ! I'd recommend it to anyone who feels there system is a bit tight for the power they are running.
In searching the net, so far I haven't found a suitable answer for what exhaust pressure is ideal for a SBC running through a muffler system (no one seems to know). Most people realize and have read it's good to have a little back pressure for engine performance (it's a dynamic thing), but I'll be damned if I can find a good way to determine just what the ideal number should be. Kinda funny because the Shop suggested an electric or vacuum controlled exhaust dump positioned right at the 3 inch elbow that goes into the inlet of the flowmaster, pointed straight out the back of the car. It could be controlled to open predetermined intake manifold pressure or throttle position. I'm thinking about it, just might be a cool modification, ya just don't want put your foot in it around the local police.
On the experimental side of things, my cousin in LA has sent me a Corvette Electric Vacuum Pump that he pulled from his Corvette when he swapped in his new 427 engine. I'll do a little more research on how guys are using this pump for crankcase evacuation, as I don't think the exhaust style will work at over 2 psi in the exhaust. I put larger breathers on value covers and now I don't get very much oil vapor blow out above 6,000 rpm (but there's still a little pressure in the crankcase I'd like to eliminate). Here's a photo of an electrical system someone else fabricated and is still evaluating for sucking off crankcase pressure.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 09-14-2010).]
One custom built 5spd Getrag bites the dust !!! Appears a Bearing retainer on output shaft failed (separated) allowing shaft to shift toward bell-housing, failing roller bearing on that end of shaft, and punching hole through transmission case. This trans lasted about 4,500 miles, I don't know if I gone too far with the engine (might be likely), trans had some nasty abuse during test rides by first shop that put new engine in, or freak failure of transmission part. It looks like the Bearing Retainer design can be improved upon as the walls are very thin due to allen head hole that is cut down the center of it, might get away with a smaller hole (thickening wall of shaft - the hat section just sheared off threaded base). Looks to be a 1/2 inch hex hole for allen driver to install part (same torque can be achieved with a 3/8's or smaller driver). So I'm brainstorming with shop to see if we can make a custom part that will allow higher force loads.
That being said, my backup ultrasonically treated trans is now back in the car, so we'll see how it goes. If the shop and I can determine that we can have a stronger bearing retainer made for a reasonable cost, I get them made. There are two of them in the transmission, one on the output shaft, and one on the input shaft at the case end plate zone. One is right hand thread, the other left hand thread, and appears they can be replaced without dropping the transmission out of the car. I'll try to get some pictures this week.
Long story short first photo shows failed bearing retainer on output shaft (separated by what appears to be fatigue crack, or tensile), second photo shows what happens on the opposite side of the output shaft when the bearing retainer fails. Transmission case wall is only about 1/8 inch thick across the entire flat zone where failure occurred. Naturally the rollers of that bearing where ground down considerably due to increased force loads from part on other end failing, we believe first.
There is no way to make a stronger part like I thought originally, the hole in the bearing retainer is that size due to oil troughs on the transmission end cap, that funnel oil into both input and output shafts.
At this point all I can hope for is that this failure resulted from old age of the trans (bearing retainers are OEM, and have never been replaced with new parts). Or the shop that I had problems with did some serious abusive driving on test rides (they did fry the clutch in under 500 miles). New replacement bearing retainers on order, will install in back up trans when they arrive (as they are really old as well).
Clutch is in excellent condition (we took apart and checked), pulled off road before noise excitement got too out of control. The hole in the case wasn't completely opened up like shown it photo, but open enough that scrunched bits of the rollers (in the bearing) were lying in the bottom of the clutch case cavity.
Oh, it just gets better.........shop put my other trans in, hooked up all electrical, connected battery, and alarm system goes on immediately. Crazy thing is, the aftermarket alarm system was removed when the new engine was installed, so what's activating the horn and lights to go on and off repeatedly??? Shop thinks car came stock from factory with alarm system and aftermarket just shared some of the wires. Crazy the aftermarket alarm has it's own horn, now the OEM horn on car is bleeping. So they check all the wiring make some changes, now car starts and engine quits after running a brief period, mechanic made numerous calls to the FAST ECU people, and it appears the computer is shutting the engine down. So mechanic pulled computer and harness from car and has shipped to FAST for diagnosis and/or replacement.
I'm about ready to get out of this sport / hobby!!!
According to your discription of your problem it is a on board factory alarm system gone bad and not any computers or ECM, You need to look under the dasn or there abour for a small nodule and unplug it and that should stop it what happeninf the unit is hooked up to either the fuel pump and the interrupt relay is causing the motor to start and shut off also the flashing lights.
While the car ius going through the alarm motions look for modules and hold them to feel for relays clicking on and off then just unplug it. ............... hope that helps
Long story short first photo shows failed bearing retainer on output shaft (separated by what appears to be fatigue crack, or tensile), second photo shows what happens on the opposite side of the output shaft when the bearing retainer fails. Transmission case wall is only about 1/8 inch thick across the entire flat zone where failure occurred. Naturally the rollers of that bearing where ground down considerably due to increased force loads from part on other end failing, we believe first.
There is no way to make a stronger part like I thought originally, the hole in the bearing retainer is that size due to oil troughs on the transmission end cap, that funnel oil into both input and output shafts.
At this point all I can hope for is that this failure resulted from old age of the trans (bearing retainers are OEM, and have never been replaced with new parts). Or the shop that I had problems with did some serious abusive driving on test rides (they did fry the clutch in under 500 miles). New replacement bearing retainers on order, will install in back up trans when they arrive (as they are really old as well).
I wonder is this isn't the same type failure as Matt Hawkins last getrag failure. I would trend to believe the retainer issue vs. worn differential bushings since his last failure was on a recently rebuilt getrag.
It's a chicken or the egg type of thing, if either part goes out, it's going to take the other with it, question is which failed first???
I know for a fact that my trans had all new bearings installed, gears were in great shape, and it was set up properly. The bearing retainers aren't considered a wear items, as they just butt against bearing inner race and rotate with shaft/bearing, so they get re-used with little or no inspection. Torque for the bearing retainers is 50 lbs, so after a couple remove and re-install, there is going to be a little stretch at the hat to threaded shaft zone, that can possibly cause a metal micro tear to start, after it starts it's just a matter of time and force. If they aren't too expensive it may just be better to use new parts when re-building the trans and throw the old bearing retainers in the garbage can.
You wouldn't think it's the roller bearing, because it's a pretty decent size, don't know what make it is, as no manufacture name or number could be detected on what was left of it. There always that gray area "was it some Chinese junk" ??? It would be pretty ironic to find out that a 10 dollar bearing retainer failure scrapped out a trans you put 3 grand into.
According to your discription of your problem it is a on board factory alarm system gone bad and not any computers or ECM, You need to look under the dasn or there abour for a small nodule and unplug it and that should stop it what happeninf the unit is hooked up to either the fuel pump and the interrupt relay is causing the motor to start and shut off also the flashing lights.
While the car ius going through the alarm motions look for modules and hold them to feel for relays clicking on and off then just unplug it. ............... hope that helps
Supposedly they checked that out, diagnostic equipment traced it back to FAST ECU that was shutting engine off, from what I'm told. Thanks for the post, this is the same thing we thought before he checked into it further today. I hate electrical issues as they can be a real bear to track down sometimes. It just upsets me, that I had no electrical issues prior to taking the car in to have the trans swapped out, and they disconnected/connected wires in process of changing trans - which tells me they did something wrong.
Just curious, was the transmission/motor solid mounted to the cradle?
Yes, everything is solid mounted, engine, transmission, and cradle is modified with third cross-member fore/aft that has 4 bolt points to trans/engine adapter plate. Has been that way since 1993 when it was determined that motor and trans soft mounts would fail early with the Corvette Engine that was in there.
FAST Computer shutting engine off after start up was traced by FAST to be a crack in the motherboard of the FAST ECU. They are securing a new board and will replace at no charge. No one has a clue how the crack came to be or why it would have showed up to be a problem during un-related repair on the car (transmission replacement). Going to take extra precaution an rubber mount the new computer when is shows up next week. With a little luck I'll get to drive it a few more times before winter sets in.
On the road again, the adventures of the California Kid continues. I put about 75 miles on the Kid before calling it a night, sure was great to feel the power, and hear this sucker howl.
Weather looks good for tomorrow, so I'll take it into work at the GM Tech Center, and set off a bunch of car alarms !
A GM Studio Styling guy drove this one out of the GM Styling Garage at the Tech Center today, and rumbled around the interior roads to put a few miles on it. It was pretty awesome just to see it being driven, has a nice growl to it:
I first saw your car, and took a ride in it, many years ago when it was in Keith's shop. I too have a Zumalt kit. I'm curious, are you able to mount a short water pump without hacking the chassis on the passenger side? Even though the driver's side axle is shorter than stock by 2+", and the motor/trans is shifted toward the driver's side, the pump and pulley cannot fit in my car ('88 GT) without getting into the chassis rail. That has always puzzled me because I thought that was a distinguishing feature between Zumalt's and Archie's kits (among others).
I bet you can really pull some RPMs now with the Hilborn setup as opposed to the TPI.
Ken
------------------ '88 Formula V6 '88 GT TPI V8
[This message has been edited by kennn (edited 10-08-2010).]
I first saw your car, and took a ride in it, many years ago when it was in Keith's shop. I too have a Zumalt kit. I'm curious, are you able to mount a short water pump without hacking the chassis on the passenger side? Even though the driver's side axle is shorter than stock by 2+", and the motor/trans is shifted toward the driver's side, the pump and pulley cannot fit in my car ('88 GT) without getting into the chassis rail. That has always puzzled me because I thought that was a distinguishing feature between Zumalt's and Archie's kits (among others).
I bet you can really pull some RPMs now with the Hilborn setup as opposed to the TPI.
Ken
Ken,
About 25% of the square area of my rail over the tail of the transmission was "notched" and boxed in with welded steel plate to add strength and close the open hole. It is required to properly locate the engine and trans, which will create room for the short shaft Corvette pump. If you can get ahold of Keith Huff @ West Coast Fiero's he can explain all that he did on this modification, as well as all modifications he made to the Zumalt Kit to improve it.
Not having owned the original Zumalt Kit, I cannot tell you all the changes Keith made, other than the fact that it's package pretty darn nice, and has been very durable. I'm including some pictures of my setup, so you can compare against your parts for differences. The water pump pulley is a Ford unit and I believe the diameter is 6 inches. No surgery was required to the passenger side of vehicle, there is just enough room to remove V Belt between the crank pulley and cradle. On my cradle there is a "third member" welded in at the trans to engine adapter plate, this adds additional support for engine/trans, and stiffens the cradle for twisting during cornering (or peak torque of engine).
The drivers side cradle leg is also removable, trans change be changed by removing that leg, and not having to undo anything else-engine stays in place with rest of cradle.
Regarding RPM's with the new engine, the needle actually sweeps faster at the upper end, accelerates right up to 7,500 rpm where I have the rev limiter set. I had the engine built with a cast steel crank, shot peened rods, cam profile to 7,500 instead of going all out....reason is that I didn't feel the Getrag would like going above 7,500 anyway. The injection system would easily handle 10,000 rpm with the right cam and forged parts.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 10-08-2010).]
Adding You Tube link that "Madcurl" uploaded for me, to give readers a little idea of what a fun car this is. This is just a casual drive without taking it to 7,500 shift points, but it gives the viewer an idea of the power at hand, watch the tach needle after it hits 5,000:
Look like Spring has finally surfaced here in Michigan, so I can start bullshitting about my car again. Have had it out already on a couple of nice weather days, sure was great to get that "Wow" feeling again, and the attention on the street was enjoyable.
First thing I have to take care of is the valve cover vent breathers dripping oil onto the headers, causes some white smoke to come out around the stacks, and engine compartment vent grates during some heavy foot pushes. This intake system doesn't have any Crankcase Vent like a PVC, so I can't suck off the oil laid-en fumes back into the intake. Need to buy or fabricate a vent tank and move breather's off valve covers to remote tank away from engine/headers location.
Car is running fantastic and today looks like the weather will hold for some more enjoyable driving.
The Hot Rod Power Tour got me off my butt (along with a weather temperature break) to get the Crankcase Breather Can installed, worked on it the night before the show:
Bundle of snakes I'm dealing with for the FAST computer module, believe it or not I spent a couple hours just making it look this good down there. It's going to take a couple days to re-wire this stuff so it looks good, or I may just make up a nice cover to hide the whole area.
It came out pretty decent for a quick throw together, I'll pick up two more 90 degree elbows for the breather tank, to get rid of the deforming "S" curve in the back tube, and do some detailing.
Another Summer winding down, Michigan was tough this year weather wise, mostly too hot to enjoy, or rain. The economy kind of took things down a bit this year, even cruise nights were pretty spare at times.
Caught the last leg of the Power Tour this year at Metro Beach, had a great time spending the day looking at beautiful cars and talking with the owners. A guy with a real sweet 51 Merc came by my car to look it over and we spent a long time talking car stuff. He snapped some pictures, posted them on his web site (Power Tour 2011, my car is on page 8):
The next event I attended was the GM Tech Center Employee Car Show, they had I believe a record year with more than 1,000 cars being on display. Link below has a few video's (they show up after first one plays, he posted a bunch of pictures as well).
The GM Styling Studio had a car show at 13 and Woodward the Wednesday before the Dream Cruise, had a great time with the Studio guys and guests mobbing my car. The event ran from 2 pm till the 9 pm shut down. Link to show you some of the cars:
Woodward Dream Cruise got busted this year with thunder, lightning, rain Saturday afternoon. I hit Woodward at 9:30 am that morning entering off I-696, plenty of cruisers on hand, made a northbound run, and back again. On the return run it was starting to turn into grid lock (12:00), so I finished the run and headed for home, was 10 miles from home when the storm blew in starting with some light rain. People were snapping pictures like crazy on Woodward, plenty surfaced on the internet.
[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 09-05-2011).]
I saw you going north on Woodward north of 13 Mile.
Sorry I missed you, would have been great to see you again. Didn't see too many Fiero's on Woodward this year, Dale showed up with his beautiful red NorthStar at the GM Studio Car Show Wednesday afternoon, he parked next to me at show so we got to chance to go over old times.
Season Wrap-up for the Kid, going into winter hibernation.
To sum up this summer, the Champion Performance Radiator took all the heat Michigan would throw at it without issue (highly recommended). Spark plug readings looked great (checked twice this year) to confirm tune in computer, performance with a big smile. No issues with the QuarterMaster metal clutch disks, extremely positive engagement. The replaced transmission has already gone 4 times the miles the last one went, so I chalk up the last failure to abuse by shop who screwed my car up to start with when new engine was put in (stay away from "Jakes" in Sterling Heights, MI).
A little while ago the Kid caught an electrical gremlin, door locks, and park lights starting cycling about every two minutes (even with the ignition off). Appears to be a relay that went south for the winter, could be a remnant of alarm system that was removed from the car. I will track that one down when Spring arrives.
Overall, due to our Government and Wall Street, it's been a pretty depressing year. At least I had the car to bring a few smiles to my face this past summer.
Overall, due to our Government and Wall Street, it's been a pretty depressing year. At least I had the car to bring a few smiles to my face this past summer.
And what a smile you must get driving that. Very impressive. There are a few guys and their rides that really turn heads and their work has earned my respect. Fieroguru, yourself and a few others are the ones I love to watch what you're doing. Folks like me and many others look to you guys to pioneer that new stuff and we follow along. I take every opportunity to visit with Paul (fieroguru) just to see what he's up to. If you were closer, you'd see me in your shop also. Love the work you're doing. I totally understand how this economy has affected our passion. All I can say is keep your priorties straight and do what you can, we'll be watching. Thanks for the great thread.
------------------ Ron "While you cannot control the length of your life, you can control the width and depth." Live life to it's fullest, you may not see tomorrow.
