Hey there everyone. The clutch is starting to go on my DOHC so I am about to replace it with a new SPEC stage 2+. While i've got it apart, I figured I might look into getting an aluminum flywheel. How many people out there have tried an aluminum flywheel on this motor? Would you suggest getting one, or is the extra expense not really worth it? If you have tried one, which brand was it, and how did you like it?
Any info is appreciated. Thanks ahead of time, Jeff Wessel
There's been a lot of owners that have purchased them. I haven't ever really heard anyone with absolute praise for them like I have the Northstar. But I personally would like to pick one up soon.
Hey there everyone. The clutch is starting to go on my DOHC so I am about to replace it with a new SPEC stage 2+. While i've got it apart, I figured I might look into getting an aluminum flywheel. How many people out there have tried an aluminum flywheel on this motor? Would you suggest getting one, or is the extra expense not really worth it? If you have tried one, which brand was it, and how did you like it?
Any info is appreciated. Thanks ahead of time, Jeff Wessel
I have a Fidanza aluminum flywheel on my DOHC. I don't think its worth the extra cost.
I have a Fidanza aluminum flywheel on my DOHC. I don't think its worth the extra cost.
Would you mind elaborating a bit more on your opinions? How does it feel compared to stock? Does it rev a lot quicker? Any extra info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
Originally posted by bluefiero: How does it feel compared to stock? Does it rev a lot quicker? Any extra info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
It doesn't rev a lot quicker. In fact, it's hard to even notice that it revs differently at all. It's half the weight of the stock flywheel but the pressure plate still weighs an ungodly amount so it doesn't make the massive difference I thought it would. It seems to run rougher at idle but I don't know if its because of the lighter flywheel or just something with my engine tuning. If you want it to rev like a sportbike, you're going to need a button flywheel and a multi-disk clutch setup. That won't be streetable. I have a Spec Stage III and driveability isn't greatly affected. I did drive on this same clutch with an iron flywheel. You have to slip it a bit more but its not undriveable in traffic or anything. Also, Fidanza's flywheel has some problems... the counterbores for the flywheel bolts are too small so its hard to get a socket around them. I imagine it would be easy to strip the already-thin flywheel bolt heads if you aren't careful. Also the flywheel bolt holes are much larger than the bolts themselves. On the OEM iron flywheel the bolts acted not only to provide clamping force but also as dowels. They don't on the aluminum flywheel. Also, the flywheel bolts have small flat areas under the heads that are there to provide a nice bearing surface while tightening them down so you don't gall the metal. Since the bolt hole is larger than it should be, the surface area in contact is marginal at best. If you still decide you want an aluminum flywheel, get a SPEC flywheel (if it doesn't have that problem) or the WCF flywheel (I know it doesnt have the counterbore issue or the oversized bolt hole problem).
It doesn't rev a lot quicker. In fact, it's hard to even notice that it revs differently at all. It's half the weight of the stock flywheel but the pressure plate still weighs an ungodly amount so it doesn't make the massive difference I thought it would.
How much does your pressure plate weigh? My SPEC 3 weighs 9 lbs. That with my 8 lb flywheel and 6 puck I have about 19 lbs . I contacted Jeremy at SPEC and he said they do not an aluminum pressure plate for the Fiero even though they offer it on other apps.
It doesn't rev a lot quicker. In fact, it's hard to even notice that it revs differently at all. It's half the weight of the stock flywheel but the pressure plate still weighs an ungodly amount so it doesn't make the massive difference I thought it would. It seems to run rougher at idle but I don't know if its because of the lighter flywheel or just something with my engine tuning. If you want it to rev like a sportbike, you're going to need a button flywheel and a multi-disk clutch setup. That won't be streetable. I have a Spec Stage III and driveability isn't greatly affected. I did drive on this same clutch with an iron flywheel. You have to slip it a bit more but its not undriveable in traffic or anything. Also, Fidanza's flywheel has some problems... the counterbores for the flywheel bolts are too small so its hard to get a socket around them. I imagine it would be easy to strip the already-thin flywheel bolt heads if you aren't careful. Also the flywheel bolt holes are much larger than the bolts themselves. On the OEM iron flywheel the bolts acted not only to provide clamping force but also as dowels. They don't on the aluminum flywheel. Also, the flywheel bolts have small flat areas under the heads that are there to provide a nice bearing surface while tightening them down so you don't gall the metal. Since the bolt hole is larger than it should be, the surface area in contact is marginal at best. If you still decide you want an aluminum flywheel, get a SPEC flywheel (if it doesn't have that problem) or the WCF flywheel (I know it doesnt have the counterbore issue or the oversized bolt hole problem).
Thanks for the info. I started reading about that issue on RFT, and was thinking about getting the SPEC aluminum flywheel and also the lightweight clutch option. I just talked to SPEC, however, and they said the lightweight clutch option would only save a pound to a pound and a half, so it most likely wouldn't make much difference than the regular one. Thanks again.
Thanks for the info. I started reading about that issue on RFT, and was thinking about getting the SPEC aluminum flywheel and also the lightweight clutch option. I just talked to SPEC, however, and they said the lightweight clutch option would only save a pound to a pound and a half, so it most likely wouldn't make much difference than the regular one. Thanks again.
It will make a difference but you may not be able to notice. I have the lightweight one and a pound less in rotational mass is a good thing IMO for an engine that loves to rev....note this is a N* setup but would be the same with the high revving DOHC
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 02-26-2008).]
The reason I wanted an aluminum flywheel was to eliminate some of the shock loading on the transmission, The lighter weight will help to lower the Mass moment of inertia. So when the clutch is engaged the resulting shock force applied to the transmission is lower. Hopefully my transmission will live a slightly longer life, that is until I can afford the g6 6 speed (need a real job first), even though the gearing doesn't thrill me, its strength pleases me.
I have a question that I dont think was asked or discussed. Has anyone kept and used the LQ1 factory dogbone mount? I have an idea for it, but I don't know if it will work.
Yeah, someone made a really long brace that went from the stock location down to the cradle. I can't remember who it was for the life of me. Check through the build links on the first page.
That car already has a spec stage 2 or higher clutch in it. In fact I think it has the stage three. If you are having problems with it slipping you need to replace it with a stage three. I know for fact it's got a stage 2 or higher already.
BTW, what application are your injectors that you picked up from (year/model). I'm having one hell of a time finding the correct fitament application for them. If you have a part number that would be great.
Thanks! Jeff
------------------ --180* t-stat, cams, 96-97 intake swap, FFP pulley, A/C Idler, P/S idler, ported exhaust mani's, ported lower intake, flowmaster exhaust, EGR delete, K&N filter, Darth Chip-- --13.8 @ 99 (before cams full street trim)-- --Check out the Fiero Kingdom!-- Beater: Flat black 90 CRX with a JDM D15 VTEC <--ballin'!
I am running a stock v6 Fiero replacement clutch/pressureplate and have never had any problem with slipping with my DOHC while romping it from a dead stop, although, I do not drop the clutch at 7k. I allow the gearing to ramp up the engine to 7k without spin and jump out of the hole. The DOHC needs stiff gearing
Originally posted by fieromadman: That car already has a spec stage 2 or higher clutch in it. In fact I think it has the stage three. If you are having problems with it slipping you need to replace it with a stage three. I know for fact it's got a stage 2 or higher already.
That car already has a spec stage 2 or higher clutch in it. In fact I think it has the stage three. If you are having problems with it slipping you need to replace it with a stage three. I know for fact it's got a stage 2 or higher already.
BTW, what application are your injectors that you picked up from (year/model). I'm having one hell of a time finding the correct fitament application for them. If you have a part number that would be great.
Thanks! Jeff
i know it def doesnt have a stage 3 bc my other car had one in it and it feels nothin like it. i believe it has a stage 2 bc i replaced the other one with a 2+ and it still felt a bit stiffer. idk maybe its just me. But the 2+ is supposed to support 400 ft/pounds so it should hold up. only at 220ish right now.
i found a set of 8 36pound accel injectors on ebay for a great price so i snagged them up. i saw them on summit bc that is how i knew they would fit. ill see if my dad can look up the part number tonight for you.
Well Stage 2 it is then. I am running a Stage 2 without any problems behind mine. I would still upgrade if I were you though, since that one didnt last.
How much does your pressure plate weigh? My SPEC 3 weighs 9 lbs. That with my 8 lb flywheel and 6 puck I have about 19 lbs . I contacted Jeremy at SPEC and he said they do not an aluminum pressure plate for the Fiero even though they offer it on other apps.
I have a SPEC stage 3 as well. The darn pressure plate weighs more than the flywheel! SPEC just provides a repainted stock replacement pressure plate for the Fiero.. as does every other manufacturer out there except those that sell 9 11/16" diameter clutches, since as far as I know those don't even use a Fiero pressure plate.
The reason I wanted an aluminum flywheel was to eliminate some of the shock loading on the transmission, The lighter weight will help to lower the Mass moment of inertia. So when the clutch is engaged the resulting shock force applied to the transmission is lower. Hopefully my transmission will live a slightly longer life, that is until I can afford the g6 6 speed (need a real job first), even though the gearing doesn't thrill me, its strength pleases me.
This is definitely a valid reason to decrease moment of inertia in the flywheel/clutch assembly. If you think that the ~25% reduction in moment of inertia (not including internal engine components) is reasonable for the extra 600% cost (assuming you get a Fidanza flywheel for $300 vs the stock iron flywheel for $50).... by all means go for it! Personally, I would do research on lighter pressure plates.. see if you can find something that can be made to work, and get a custom flywheel made that will allow you to use that pressure plate (or modify the SPEC or WCF aluminum flywheel). Actually WCF can put any pressure plate or flywheel hub pattern in it that you want.. so if you find a pressure plate you could call them about having one made. There's a guy on here that does custom aluminum flywheels too; Race-Tech is his handle on here I think. If you can get a 5 lb pressure plate and a 6 lb flywheel.. now you're down to 11 lbs + clutch disc... which would probably still be driveable yet give you some more noticeable benefits.
Will advocates a button flywheel setup with a multi-disk Tilton clutch. That doesn't just decrease overall mass but makes the overall diameter of the rotating components much smaller, making for a MASSIVE reduction in moment of inertia. However, the mass is reduced so much that they can't take much slippage before they overheat and warp the floater disks, rendering the whole thing useless. This clearly isn't so useful on the street.
Good luck finding a happy medium! IMO just an aluminum flywheel isn't enough to make a difference over the stock 60* V6 iron flywheel. For other swaps where the iron flywheel is over 20 lbs, it can be very significant.
This is definitely a valid reason to decrease moment of inertia in the flywheel/clutch assembly. If you think that the ~25% reduction in moment of inertia (not including internal engine components) is reasonable for the extra 600% cost (assuming you get a Fidanza flywheel for $300 vs the stock iron flywheel for $50).... by all means go for it! Personally, I would do research on lighter pressure plates.. see if you can find something that can be made to work, and get a custom flywheel made that will allow you to use that pressure plate (or modify the SPEC or WCF aluminum flywheel). Actually WCF can put any pressure plate or flywheel hub pattern in it that you want.. so if you find a pressure plate you could call them about having one made. There's a guy on here that does custom aluminum flywheels too; Race-Tech is his handle on here I think. If you can get a 5 lb pressure plate and a 6 lb flywheel.. now you're down to 11 lbs + clutch disc... which would probably still be driveable yet give you some more noticeable benefits.
Will advocates a button flywheel setup with a multi-disk Tilton clutch. That doesn't just decrease overall mass but makes the overall diameter of the rotating components much smaller, making for a MASSIVE reduction in moment of inertia. However, the mass is reduced so much that they can't take much slippage before they overheat and warp the floater disks, rendering the whole thing useless. This clearly isn't so useful on the street.
Good luck finding a happy medium! IMO just an aluminum flywheel isn't enough to make a difference over the stock 60* V6 iron flywheel. For other swaps where the iron flywheel is over 20 lbs, it can be very significant.
Well, in my defense, When I has purchased both my clutch and flywheel I had never really held either in my hand before that point, and I hadn't realized the massive weight of the pressure plate, or yes I would have been a little apprehensive on purchasing the flywheel. Now that I look back it really wasn't worth the cost, due to the minimal weight savings. I also dont really want a tilton clutch, Ive never driven one, and get the impression they aren't the most street friendly clutch out there. I'm not looking to build a race car, just a well spirited car. The Flywheel for me was on sale for 275. But I do understand the gain is not great. Overall I have yet to know since theres snow and ice everywhere and its way to cold in my garage to finish my swap.
Guys Im getting all my major expensive parts together for my swap. Im debating on clutches, talked to a spec representative today and he was saying between stage two and three he would recommend the 2+ but I mean, maybe thats just cause it costs more. I was going to opt for the stage 3 clutch but I just don't want to regret it if its not very streetable. Just wondering what your guys opinions are, maybe a total different brand? But I've heard good things about spec thus far, aside from TO bearing misshaps.
Guys Im getting all my major expensive parts together for my swap. Im debating on clutches, talked to a spec representative today and he was saying between stage two and three he would recommend the 2+ but I mean, maybe thats just cause it costs more. I was going to opt for the stage 3 clutch but I just don't want to regret it if its not very streetable. Just wondering what your guys opinions are, maybe a total different brand? But I've heard good things about spec thus far, aside from TO bearing misshaps.
I'm not a clutch expert or anything by any means. But I originally had the stage 3 on my turbo 3.4 pushrod, and yes it was streetable, but it was very stiff and I didn't really like it that much. The DOHC car I bought came with a stage 2 already on it, but the clutch wore out pretty quick. That is why I am now going with a stage 2+ on both my turbo 3.4 pushrod and my 3.4 DOHC. Correct me if im wrong, but I believe the 2+ is basically a combination of the 2 and 3 together. It is supposd to hold up like the stage 3, but feel more like a stage 2. But it also all depends how much power you are planning on making. If you go forced induction, stage 3 would probably be better. But if you stay N/A I personally would suggest 2+. Hope this helps.
The stage 3 is very streetable... I've been in stop and go traffic several times without problems. One of the biggest factors is how you mount your motor. Polyurethane mounts will multiply the stiffness 2 fold, while the dodge mounts and stock mounts will allow for much more play. I use poly and the stage 3, and while it doesn't slip like a normal clutch, I can still slip it very well, it just takes some getting used to.
The 2+ is just Kevlar on a round disc instead of pucks. More surface area contact = more bite. I haven't heard the best things about the stage II material. I'd recommend the stage III personally, unless your building a comfortable show car that you plan to just mosey around town in.
I need some help... So here is my problem: I have a 96' DOHC without an an alt. and starter. Are there any which will work in place of the origional? Anything better/smaller then origional? I will hit the car/junk yard once it gets warm.
Is that car going to be done this summer so we can whoop up on some imports together? I need to get my car back to da grove... hint hint wink wink.
Thats my plan, I pretty much have all the parts, but when I have time my garage is always frozen solid.I have my second spring break in a few weeks, if it doesn't warm up old man winter gets a leg beating. i really need one of those kerosene heaters.
The Stage II is a very nice durable clutch that will withstand some abuse. It doesn't have the best holding power (275 ft lbs or so?) but will last almost forever. It's Clutchtex. Look it up. They use it on trucks and whatnot due to its wonderful wear and holding properties.
I have a Stage III in my car now because my Getrag puked tranny fluid all over the Spec Stage II and I'm thinking about going turbo so I want the holding power. Besides being slathered in oil the Stage II had no visible wear on the friction surface after 12,000 miles of hard driving. The springs all rattled though! I don't know if they'd ever fall out (they looked secure) but they were getting worn or something. Anyway.. the Stage III is plenty streetable. I have one in my 88 Fiero 3.4 DOHC with a Getrag and a Fidanza flywheel. Drives nice.
Just incase someone is interested, I was looking at some websites to find the best price for Spec clutches and came across this website www.treperformance.com . I have it listed for the Pontiac fiero 2.8 5 speed, and they have a "billet aluminum ultra lightweight pressure plate" for $199.99 extra. Supposed to be 40% weight reduction. Not sure how true/good it is. Just thought I would put that out there for anyone who might be interested.
So far I have found thats www.lmperformance.com is pretty cheap for the spec clutches. Anyone else have any other cheap sites?
[This message has been edited by bluefiero (edited 03-02-2008).]
Just incase someone is interested, I was looking at some websites to find the best price for Spec clutches and came across this website www.treperformance.com . I have it listed for the Pontiac fiero 2.8 5 speed, and they have a "billet aluminum ultra lightweight pressure plate" for $199.99 extra. Supposed to be 40% weight reduction. Not sure how true/good it is. Just thought I would put that out there for anyone who might be interested.
I called Jeremy the tech guy @ SPEC and he told me SPEC does not offer the aluminum pressure plate for the Fiero.
Thats my plan, I pretty much have all the parts, but when I have time my garage is always frozen solid.I have my second spring break in a few weeks, if it doesn't warm up old man winter gets a leg beating. i really need one of those kerosene heaters.
Haha, yeah this weather is really starting to piss me off. I can't wait for winter to be over. Been working on my borthers Integra this winter in the folks garage. BRRR!! If you get a heater bring it my way! lol
Keep in touch and let me know if you want some help or when your ready to roll. Still got my phone number?
BTW, if, and thats a big IF, I get my car running 100% early this spring, I will be going turbo this summer, but my guess would be that my idle issues will continue to haunt me and my wallet enough so that I can't do that this year. In that case, ported heads it is. Either way you need to get another ride in my car this summer.
BTW, if, and thats a big IF, I get my car running 100% early this spring, I will be going turbo this summer, but my guess would be that my idle issues will continue to haunt me and my wallet enough so that I can't do that this year. In that case, ported heads it is. Either way you need to get another ride in my car this summer.
What size turbo are you plannin on running? I have been debating on turbocharging for a while now. My plan is to keep the DOHC motor, but use the custom yellow body I have on my turbo 3.4 pushrod, and getting rid of that engine. I actually have a brand new turbo thats been sitting for about a year now. It's a .60 a/r intake .83 a/r exhaust. Trying to decide how well it will work. The only other problem is thats its an xspower turbo, which I have heard some bad stories about.
Had a friend with a 57 trim t3/t4 on a Civic. The seals went within 5000 miles and he had the correct pressure reducer on it too. If you're going to turbo dont go the cheap route.
I plan on going GT35r when I do it. I'd rather do it the right way first than have to re-do it all when I'm not happy with it. The only question then is when am I going to be able to do it. To be honest though I havent really been checking into the correct a/r ratios, so its hard for me to say exact specs. That shows how much I can actually for-see me doing the turbo this summer. lol
But ported heads would be a real kick in the pants too!
Lol yea. That is exactly what is stopping me right now from putting the turbo on. I know it is a junk turbo and wouldn't plan on running it very long. Was thinking of mainly using it for a mock up, in order to get everything else taken care of until I can afford a nice one. But we will see.
