Also, just remembered. My coild pack has 3 sockets, only two connecters where on my harness. the lone empty one is a 3 pin socket. something for obd2?
It's the crank sensor socket ..goes to a 2 wire crank sensor on the side of the block. That crank wiring is separate from the main harness and its purple and yellow wires twisted to look like braid There are 2 crank sensors on the 94-97 engines and of course a cam sensor. One crank sensor goes on the side of the block, the other is behind the front crank pulley ..the 91-93 engines only have the one crank sensor on the side of the block and no cam sensor
You can use the DIS from any yr DOHC though on any of the 3 ECMs that ran them
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 07-22-2008).]
Does anyone have the wiring diagram for 91-93 cars? It would help me if I knew what wires are what and if I need to re-wire anything, I read the last few pages and they cleared up some questions I had since I am using a 96 engine with 93 cutlass harness I think. There are a lot of unused sensors on the 96 block I was freaking out hehe. Some plugs can fit into 2 possible sensors and I got all @A*#%#QT)(*!FQE#...
I may have them let me look on my laptop, I can email them to you if I do. BTW, the 96 alternator doesn't hook up plug for plug, nor does the ac compressor. This may help with the intake portion http://60degreev6.com/conte...d_Swap_9195_Engines. I had to un-loom my injector harness and move around some plugs to get the intake plugged in, all the connections for it are on there. The MAF isn't used, nor is the Cam position sensor, The 91-93 i believe has only one crank sensor, which one I don't know, I also believe the map has a different pigtail. but as you lay the stock harness where it belongs by the engine every plug lines up pretty well with the correct sensor, if you didnt completely molest it. What really helped me was the rockauto catalog in the electrical connector section since most had pictures.
files are sent, and one more thing, the knock sensors have a different style connector and the connector is on the rear of the engine in a stock harness.
As promised, here are pictures of the spark plug boots that completely seal and are water tight. Keep in mind my camera sucks.
It is a boot from a NorthStar or an Aurora 4.0 V8. You can see the full size one and the one that I cut down so that it fits with a stock plug inside it.
I put a screw driver into it so that you can see where I cut it done the middle to remove the old wire and put the new wire in. The boot is made for 7mm wire but I'm sure a with a little work a 8 mm wire will fit.
This is 3 of them installed on my engine. They are completely water tight. I poured 1/2 liter of water over these boots. Then I cleaned up the mess and pulled the boots. Not a single drop of water made it past the boot.
This is what it looks like with the 4 cyl wire inside of it. The 6 cylinder wire also fits but you have to trim the lip off of it. Of course the slack would have to be taken up when you install it. It plugs in and comes out just fine.
[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 07-24-2008).]
Ok I am going to be annoying and slightly helpful.
Back story is I bought a 91-93 wiring harness from one person and a 96' engine,header flanges,clutch, neutral ballanced flywheel,ECM, hacked up 96' harness,computer chip from another person. Did not pull the parts. Nothing is marked on the harness. Did not see where anything went. Motor did not come with any accessories. Never done a different engine swap by myself because wiring kills/confuses me- I can do everything else! Swapped other engines but they were the same/rebuilds and not completely different engines.
The following pictures are of where I am at. If anyone knows then please chime in. I will edit my pictures as I get the info and it will hopefully help others with locating where the plug ends go. Follow the link to Webshots and either comment on the picture if you have an account or let me know here what it is and what picture # it is. I will change the description then.
One thing I think is the 96' has a heated O2 ( 4 wire?) and the 91-93 is a 2 wire?
Can you guys tell me what temps your engines are running? My car seems to want to run between 210-225, my manual says the coolant relay fans don't kick in until the block coolant temp reaches 230 deg. I have been on two -three 6 mile runs with my car and she seems to be running around 220! Maybe I am being over concerned because I am so new to this engine. I just want to know where others seem to be running. I am certain I have a 195 deg therm running in mine now.
Ok I am going to be annoying and slightly helpful.
Back story is I bought a 91-93 wiring harness from one person and a 96' engine,header flanges,clutch, neutral ballanced flywheel,ECM, hacked up 96' harness,computer chip from another person. Did not pull the parts. Nothing is marked on the harness. Did not see where anything went. Motor did not come with any accessories. Never done a different engine swap by myself because wiring kills/confuses me- I can do everything else! Swapped other engines but they were the same/rebuilds and not completely different engines.
The following pictures are of where I am at. If anyone knows then please chime in. I will edit my pictures as I get the info and it will hopefully help others with locating where the plug ends go. Follow the link to Webshots and either comment on the picture if you have an account or let me know here what it is and what picture # it is. I will change the description then.
One thing I think is the 96' has a heated O2 ( 4 wire?) and the 91-93 is a 2 wire?
Im sorry the files I sent you where worthless I didn't realize it until I actually opened them yesterday. I think you are correct on the 02 sensor, but a 91-93 02 sensor should bolt right in, or just use the correct wires from the 96 sensor if you have it.
Im still stuck with what these connectors are/go to. I know like 1/2 of them are not used, but I dont know what ones. Can someone help me with my post a few up?
Also- what is the thing called that plugs into the back of the alternator? I bought a new one and I know something hooks onto the back. Any pics of that?
Ug next motor I get I will pull it for myself and use some masking take, marker, and 1000 pictures!
[This message has been edited by NYRED85GT (edited 07-27-2008).]
Dont know if 91-93 used the same compressor, but if so a complete harness will have two connectors like this the one on the front side of the engine goes to the AC compressor.
This is only on 94-97 engines, the connector is located on the front side of the injector harness on a 94-97 harness, 91-93 has no provisions on the engine or harness
Connecter for the Camshaft position sensor, Not on a 91-93 harness, otherwise on the front side of the injector harness, last connector.
This is the 96-97 EVAP purge valve, it is located on the front side of the intake manifold Pass side I believe. Connectors on the harness are identical for all years.
OBD2 cars have a EVAP check valve, it is on the intake manifold on the driver side, next to the purge valve. OBD1 harnesses have no provisions for this.
on OBD2 cars the EGR is a different style, the connector on OBD1 harnesses will not plug into it, I do not know if a OBD2 connector can be slpiced in, worth a shot though, I need the pinouts for the connector to try this though.
OBD2 knock sensor, there are two on OBD2 cars. Both are right under the intake manifolds. OBD1 cars have only one knock sensors on the harnesses.
OBD2 Knock sensor connector, needed for 96-97 engines on older harnesses OBD1 Knock sensor connector
This is a mini harness, (two braided wires) that connects the coil pack to the crank sensor. This is separte from the ECM, body, and injector harness.
This is the heated O2 sensor, There are 2 on OBD2 cars, one after the cat as well, OBD1 uses one sensor. I'm not sure if 91-93 has a heated sensor, if not, it can still be wired to be heated by splicing in the hot feed from the ECM.
This is the rear of the 96-97 Throttle body, All the connectors are on the rear of injector mini-harness on the far end. the harness on OBD1 Cars must be unloomed at the wire pulled out to make longer, the connectors will only go to one place, the IAC connector is identical to the AC press. connector.
OBD2 cars have a different style map sensor, on 91-93 cars the plug is on the rear of the injector harness (before injector plugs I believe) the plug is different on 96-97 manifolds and the wires must be lengthened spliced to the new connector (before Throttle body) .
The stock fiero VSS is used, it doesnt need to connect to the DOHC ECM, just wire it directly to the C203.
Location is under the throttle body on coolant crossover, I think this is also on the injector harness, but don't quote me on that. The connector is identical to the air temp sensor - but that is on the main engine harness, front side.
I believe this is the connector for the DOHC alternator to ECM and gauge.
Coil pack connectors, On 91-95 engines, these are on the front side of the engine harness, on OBD2 harnesses, they are in the injector harness. To use earlier harness on the 96-97 engine the harness is uloomed and the wires pulled out to sufficient length for the new location, but it cant be on top of the cams like stock, no room.
94-97 engines have this crank sensor, I dont believe the 91-93s have this.
Oil pressure switch, has a very unique connector, above starter motor on front of engine, near bellhousing.
temp sender is a one pin connecter on the front cylinder head with a long pigtail over exhaust crossover.
Ok I am going to be annoying and slightly helpful.
Back story is I bought a 91-93 wiring harness from one person and a 96' engine,header flanges,clutch, neutral ballanced flywheel,ECM, hacked up 96' harness,computer chip from another person. Did not pull the parts. Nothing is marked on the harness. Did not see where anything went. Motor did not come with any accessories. Never done a different engine swap by myself because wiring kills/confuses me- I can do everything else! Swapped other engines but they were the same/rebuilds and not completely different engines.
The following pictures are of where I am at. If anyone knows then please chime in. I will edit my pictures as I get the info and it will hopefully help others with locating where the plug ends go. Follow the link to Webshots and either comment on the picture if you have an account or let me know here what it is and what picture # it is. I will change the description then.
One thing I think is the 96' has a heated O2 ( 4 wire?) and the 91-93 is a 2 wire?
Im not sure on all you connectors, since location is unknown relative to the harness, but I can answer some.
#3 oil pressure switch #2 oil level sensor?? #5 I cant tell the colors, but gromets are 80% of the time grounds, unless its purple, red, or orange. Purple is for the stater solenoid, orange is hot off ecu, red is hot off battery. #6 index: IDK, middle/ring: alternator to c500, pinky: knock sensor (must change for 96-97), middle: maybe crank sensor not sure. #7 EGR, not compatible on 96-97 OBD2 #8 Auto Trans - cut it off and depin ecm #9 AC pressure or idle air control #10 intake air temp or coolant temp #11 Coil pack Ign Module #12 Ground, Ground, Ground, Solenoid?, and coolant Temp, Coil Pack, form left to right #14 far left intake air temp, so #10 may be coolant temp; the rest must be auto trans, not needed. #16 temp sendor (front cyl head) ? #17 Auto Trans, Cut it off #18 Coil Pack power? #24 and #25 should get cut off for and pinned into the fiero c500 and c203 #26 gets cut of, use fiero relays and c203 I hope I got most right. I'm no expert, nor have i touched 91-93 wiring, just 94-95 and some of 96-97.
BTW, You cant use the 96 injector harness the 91-93 harness isnt pinned for it.
[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 07-30-2008).]
OH WOW this is going to help me A LOT! THANK YOU! I could almost figure it out but there were so many connectors I was unsure of. I will be gone the next 4 days for a military field exercise but when I get home I will pour over this in detail.
Could anyone tell me what size are the stock injectors for the 3.4 DOHC? Will 91+ Camero or Corvette LT1/LS1 injectors work assuming they are sized correctly, ie same electrical connector and hookups etc.
91-93 Engines have 23# injectors, they have a specific spray pattern, and are a specific part for only this engine. 94-95 have a different part number, I've never seen a value anywhere for rating. 96-97 also have a different part number, and there isn't a rating that I've seen for it either. I don't see how you would have a problem install other injectors, they are physically capable of being used.New tuning is required for a different flow injector, but they also have a different spray pattern. They are designed for 1 valve . the DOHC has a spray pattern for 2 valves. not that this is a deal breaker. Atomization may be lost by using a push rod injector since its stream will not be pointing directly at the valves any longer. of course the effect of vacuum in the cylinder will still be enough to pull almost all of the mixture in the chamber anyways. The possibility is there for fuel to pool on the port walls more with a different injector. If your running batch fire, a difference would hardly be noticed as fuel technically already has a chance to pool up at each banks firing.
Accel states that the last two digits is the size of the injector so according to Accel they are 21# injectors. That sounds a bit low to me and I know that aftermarket manufacturers have gotten parts wrong for cars in the past. I guess I'll search around a little more.
I just checked another site and it says the injectors are 21#. Strange enough, it also says that 21# injectors only support 202 hp?!?!
Well, 21# may be right, according to the goons on 60degreev6, I read post saying 23-21, nothing was constant. so I bet 21 is correct for 91-93, but that is really pushing the injectors. No offense to anyone at 60degreev6, but most of the information spewed across that place, at least in the DOHC category hasn't been so reliable.
If they are 21# injectors, then that may explain why the injectors die so often. They are undersized and over driven. Injectors should only be driven to 80% duty cycle. If people are tapping into all 215 horses regularly, then they are going over 80% regularly too. I'll bet the 94+ injectors are bigger. I just have not found any stats on them yet.
Money is getting tight for me right now. I am making federal minimum wage this month because of the state budget problems. I looked at the timing belt and gears on my motor and they look like they are in good shape.
My question is, if the timing belt breaks, can I do any damage to the engine?
When building my motor, our first attempt at timing was done with a manual that did not state to set the second cam bank at 180* out. It was physically impossible to rotate the crank with cams in this position, the valves were colliding/ binding with with the pistons. I have read many many times that the DOHC is a non interference motor. After my experience with the motor, do I believe that: absolutely not.
I think Procarnut had several belt slips without damage, maybe even others. The 96+ heads are also very different, so its hard to say with any certainty that one is interference and one is not.
In any case, you don't want a belt slip/break, ever! If you think it may break, you need to replace it now. There's no point in gambling with it (rolls eyes at self).
[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 08-04-2008).]
Could anyone tell me what size are the stock injectors for the 3.4 DOHC? Will 91+ Camero or Corvette LT1/LS1 injectors work assuming they are sized correctly, ie same electrical connector and hookups etc.
I had mine flow tested when I did my DOHC (95 engine from a Cutlass Supreme) and they came back at 21 lbs.
The general concensus about injectors is that they are anywhere from 21-23 lbs stock. I bought these injectors for mine (in the link, obviously needed a chip change with it but the size and dimensions worked well). Also, don't worry about the spray pattern.
I am doing some calculations on my engine. Does anyone know the stats on the stock 91-93 engine for:
1. Intake valve diameter. *found 1.25 2. Exhaust valve diameter. *found 1.6 3. Rod Length 4. Intake Valve Open *calculated? 5.5* ATDC Close at 149.5* BTDC 5. Exhaust Valve Open *calculated? 138.5* ATDC Close at 8.5* BTDC 6. Intake Lobe Center * found 108* ATDC 7. Exhaust Lobe Center * found 115* BTDC
I already have:
INTAKE: Lift: 369 Duration: 205
EXHAUST: Lift: 373 Duration: 213
Bore 92mm 3.62 inch Stroke 84mm 3.31 inch
I have already learned a lot about the engine and GM's design decisions. When I am done with my research, I'll post what I have learned.
edit: I found most of the info myself with one more web search on 60degreeV6 page.
My numbers must be off. According to my numbers there is no overlap.
[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 08-04-2008).]
those cam specs are .50in in case you had assumed seat to seat. I believe the correct valve sizes are intake: 1.436 and exhaust 1.258. the rod length is GM's magic 5.7in Yea, you valve sizes are pretty weird, why would the intake be smaller than the exhaust, thats not right. You lobe centers are also off, I think they are both supposed to be 110
Edit again: Rockauto lists valve sizes as: Intake: 1.718 Exhaust: 1.425 Once more Edit: above are 96 valves 93 valves are listed as: I: 1.437 E: 1.26
[This message has been edited by FieroWannaBe (edited 08-04-2008).]
those cam specs are .50in in case you had assumed seat to seat. I believe the correct valve sizes are intake: 1.436 and exhaust 1.258. the rod length is GM's magic 5.7in Yea, you valve sizes are pretty weird, why would the intake be smaller than the exhaust, thats not right. You lobe centers are also off, I think they are both supposed to be 110
Edit again: Rockauto lists valve sizes as: Intake: 1.718 Exhaust: 1.425 Once more Edit: above are 96 valves 93 valves are listed as: I: 1.437 E: 1.26
Those makes a lot more sense. The intake valve is supposed to be larger than the exhaust. The lobe centers and durations don't look right. There has to be some overlap but the numbers that I am seeing does not show any.
The lift is pretty dang close to the "official" specs. The slight differences can be explained in the manufacturing process. I don't think 16 deg of intake and 15 deg of exhaust duration missing can be explained that way. I'm going to dig more into 60degreeV6 and hope that I come up with more information. I would believe the GM official numbers before I believe numbers measured off of one set of cams.
Even going by the official numbers, I don't see any overlap. 111 - 114 = 3 deg ATDC. 112 - 110.5 = 1.5 deg ATDC. So there is a whopping 1.5 deg of overlap? What am I missing?
[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 08-05-2008).]
Holy **** ! I learned something new today... 96 heads have bigger valves! Interesting... Makes me re-think porting them and making a set of headers for my setup instead of using the older heads.
Originally posted by Doug85GT: I stumbled across it on 60degreeV6. It could be completely wrong like a lot of their information, but it appears believable to me.
another post on 60degree claims those specs where posted wrong and these re .020" specs, not .050"
another post on 60degree claims those specs where posted wrong and these re .020" specs, not .050"
Using the same lobe centers at 112 and 111, and durations of 205 and 213, then:
Exhaust Close: 8.5 BTDC Intake Open: 5.5 ATDC
That is 14 deg of seperation. The numbers are exactly the same using 112 and 111 lobe centers. So if you retard your exhaust cam 13 deg, you will still have zero overlap.
That makes no sense. Just about every passenger car made for the last 5+ decades has valve overlap. Something is wrong with our data.
For reasons of practical measurement, the SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) standard defines the opening or closing event as when the valve is 0.006" above it's "on seat" position. So SAE valve timings are the crank angles defined or measured "at 0.006" valve lift".
So valve are considered open by SAE standards well before the .050 standard that most people go by. That is important because with valve overlap, a little bit of valve opening can give you a significant benefit.
