I am starting to see that if you want to get to 300 hp without forced induction, then the engine is going to have to rev to at least 7000 rpms with 100% VE at 7000 rpms or rev to 7500 rpms with 92% VE. All of the setups that I have seen so far drop off sharply at 7000 rpms.
It appears that take to get to 300 hp would take a big intake such as Michael Smith's along with custom cams with .400-.410 lift and slightly extended duration. Michael Smith was at 280 hp at the flywheel so if he had better cams, I think he would have gone all the way to 300. That speaks a lot about the potential of the engine.
I think I know what I will be doing over the next couple of years.
[This message has been edited by Doug85GT (edited 08-06-2008).]
Does anyone have the picture of the fuse box and what each fuse and relay goes to? http://good-times.webshots....19970062425276UEaRrw I saw it on the forum within the past 3 weeks, thought I saved it, and now I cannot find the darn thing!
So I've got a cam timing question for you guys. I just had the cam tension actuator go on me, so I just had the motor out and checked all the valves to make sure they were not damaged, and luckily they were not. So I went ahead and put the motor back together, but not it just turns over and will not start. I have spark and I can also smell the fuel, and when it turns over it sounds like something is wrong with the timing. Here is what I did for the timing, please let me know if I did something wrong.
I set piston 1 at TDC. Then I put the cam lock down tool on both sets of cams, facing all four cams up and locked them down. Then I loosened the gears on the cams so they would spin freely. I then put the new belt on and the new tension actuator and it tightened up the belts nicely. I then torqued the cam gears.
Were all four cams supposed to be facing up at the same time? or are two supposed to be up, and the other two 180 degrees?
Thanks for the help.
**edited to add that it is a 95 motor.
[This message has been edited by bluefiero (edited 08-16-2008).]
No, the cams should not be all facing up at the same time. The engine will run, but not too well. Usually you set one bank, rotate the crank 360 degrees, and set the other bank. So the cams should be 180 out from eachother.
No, the cams should not be all facing up at the same time. The engine will run, but not too well. Usually you set one bank, rotate the crank 360 degrees, and set the other bank. So the cams should be 180 out from eachother.
I was afraid I did that wrong. Does it matter which bank is up and which is down at any given point?
I am assuming the easiest way to correct this would to set it at TDC again, loosen up the cam gears on one bank and put the hold down tool on the bank. Then rotate the crank 360 degrees, and then re tighten up the cam gears on that one bank, correct?
on OBD2 cars the EGR is a different style, the connector on OBD1 harnesses will not plug into it, I do not know if a OBD2 connector can be slpiced in, worth a shot though, I need the pinouts for the connector to try this though.
OBD2 knock sensor, there are two on OBD2 cars. Both are right under the intake manifolds. OBD1 cars have only one knock sensors on the harnesses.
OBD2 Knock sensor connector, needed for 96-97 engines on older harnesses
OBD1 Knock sensor connector
The OBD II knock sensor does NOT work on the 91-93 ECM. I've tried splicing the new connector on and using the new knock sensor since it makes a better sealed connection than the early one. It did not work; I got an EST error code right away and the computer retarded timing. I checked the resistance on the sensor.. its different. If you're doing a 96-97 swap with the early ECM.. you need to use the early knock sensor.
The OBD II knock sensor does NOT work on the 91-93 ECM. I've tried splicing the new connector on and using the new knock sensor since it makes a better sealed connection than the early one. It did not work; I got an EST error code right away and the computer retarded timing. I checked the resistance on the sensor.. its different. If you're doing a 96-97 swap with the early ECM.. you need to use the early knock sensor.
Is this true for the 94-95 computers also? Damn, one more thing I'll probably have to add to the list.
Here is the list of wires for the firewall connector (C100) on the early style DOHC wiring harness. Found these last week on another forum and I checked against my harness and the list is good.
This is for the 1993 C100
A1 RED NO INFO A2 GRAY switched feed for fuel pump A3 PINK IGN 1 FEED B1 RED battery B2 BLACK NO INFO B3 YELLOW IGN SWITCH START C1 BLACK NO INFO C2 PNK/BLK FUSED FEED TO ecm C3 LT GRN PCM ac request C4 LT GRN backup lights D1 N/A D2 N/A D3 YEL/BLK low coolant indicator D4 TAN/BLK tach D5 LT GRN/BLK trunk release E1 TAN/BLK NO INFO E2 BROWN volts indicator F1 N/A F2 TAN oil pressure indicator G1 BROWN NO INFO G2 DK GRN coolant temp indicator H1 N/A H2 N/A H3 BRN/WHT MALFUNCTION indicator control H4 DK GRN vss H5 WHITE CRUISE INDICATOR CONTROL J1 WHT/BLK DATA LINK J2 DK GRN A/C COMPRESSOR CONTROL J3 PURPLE stoplamp TC output to pcm J4 ORANGE uart data K1 RED battery K2 ORANGE IGN 1 FEED K3 BLACK NO INFO L1 RED BATTERY L2 BLACK NO INFO L3 RED BATTERY
Ok here is the current situation. I am 95% sure that the wiring I have done so far is correct. Stuck on a few wires (ok more than a few).
Engine: 96' Monte 4 speed manual trans 92' wiring harness and computer (has the white, green, blue, orange ends) Using the Monte Carlo's fuse panel and splicing the C100's wires into the Fiero's firewall connectors.
The wires I need help on are as follows:
On the early model DOHC harness/C100 I have: B1, K1, L1, L3 are all 6 gauge red. 60 amp in the fuse box. Hot at all times I think. I see no Fireo connection to them. Cap them off? B2, K3, L2 are all 6 gauge black. I assume they are paired with the reds. Just ground them? A3 is pink (thicker wire) and labeled "IGN 1 FEED" C1 is black. Ground it? C4 is Green and labeled "backup lights" H4 is dark green and VSS. K2 is orange (thicker wire) and labeled "IGN 1 FEED"
Fiero C203 pins: B- connect to DOHC K2? H- connect to DOHC H4? J- connect to DOHC A3?
Fiero C500: A2 is black. Special place to ground? B3 is brown and labeled "charging system" D1 is dark green/white and labeled "coolant fan" E3 is pink and labeled "electronic fuel injection/ multiport fuel injection"
Thank you for any help once again!! I am determined to hear this engine run before fall!
Mike
[This message has been edited by NYRED85GT (edited 08-31-2008).]
My tip to the 25th was great and the car preformed well at both track days. Had an air injection check valve go bad at Autobahn and blew a hole in my digital Cruse Control box. It also cooked some of my wiring loom but only the convoluted tubing and tape. The wires are ok so they just need a rewrapping. My issue is that my gas tank is building pressure. It builds up so much that the vapors have taken the paint off the filler neck area.
What could be causing this??
------------------ Red 1988 GT 5 speed Poly all around, Koni's & Lowered LQ1 powered
My tip to the 25th was great and the car preformed well at both track days. Had an air injection check valve go bad at Autobahn and blew a hole in my digital Cruse Control box. It also cooked some of my wiring loom but only the convoluted tubing and tape. The wires are ok so they just need a rewrapping. My issue is that my gas tank is building pressure. It builds up so much that the vapors have taken the paint off the filler neck area.
What could be causing this??
Glad to hear you had a good trip overall. Does your cruise control still work?
Sounds like a charcoal cannister problem. Check the line from the gas tank to the charcoil cannister to make sure it is not kinked. There should also be a vent to atmosphere somewhere on the cannister. Check that to make sure it is not plugged either.
I set the cruse outside of Joliet, IL and it would not disengage. Had to disconnect the cable and unplug it. The hole in the CC box was the size of a silver dollar.
I'll look into the hoses and cannistor this weekend.
I have a open spot in my garage for your motor when you're ready
Hey CCRider, it was nice to meet you at the 25'th. I was the guy at Waterford that thaught I had broke your decklid off when you opened it. Yea, scared the heck out of me Anyway, Heres a picture of my Canister. This is the one you really should have, or get for the 3.4 DOHC. It was off an early 90's Grand AM. If you go salvage yard hunting, you will find it behind the front bumper on the passenger side. It is the correct direct replacment size, and has the 2 lines meant for the electric CCP solenoid style system. One to the tank, one directly to the CCP Solenoid.
Another thing to look out for, is corroded or blocked lines.
Basically, there is a vent line going from the gas tank to the expansion tank (located next to the battery inside the wheel well) and from that tank, another line goes to the Canister. Then another line goes from the canister to the CCP solenoid, then another line goes from the CCP solenoid to manifold vaccum. That is the whole system. If any of these lines up to the canister are obstructed, there is likley to be an excessive buildup of pressure in the gas tank.
If a stock Fiero canister is utilized, there is a good chance that it is not going to work too well since the Fieros Canister is meant to be operated by Ported Vaccum, and utilized by Manifold Vaccum It has 3 connections because of this. The 3.4 DOHC only has 1 Manifold vaccum port for the CCP solenoid, so a second line would have had to been run from the Plastic "vaccum manifold" on the other side of the engine to possibly work, and even then, it might not operate properly. I reccomend ditching the Fiero Canister for one from a Grand AM.
Heres a picture of my canister, its actually a picture of my Cruise control that just so happens to have the canister in the picture.
It was great to talk with you at Waterford as well and don't fret about the deck lid. I did get mine off a GA but I thing it has 3 outlets and was thinking that I screwed up when I connected it. Pick & Pull is half price this weekend so I will go hunt one down.
Ok here is the current situation. I am 95% sure that the wiring I have done so far is correct. Stuck on a few wires (ok more than a few).
Engine: 96' Monte 4 speed manual trans 92' wiring harness and computer (has the white, green, blue, orange ends) Using the Monte Carlo's fuse panel and splicing the C100's wires into the Fiero's firewall connectors.
The wires I need help on are as follows:
On the early model DOHC harness/C100 I have: B1, K1, L1, L3 are all 6 gauge red. 60 amp in the fuse box. Hot at all times I think. I see no Fireo connection to them. Cap them off? B2, K3, L2 are all 6 gauge black. I assume they are paired with the reds. Just ground them? A3 is pink (thicker wire) and labeled "IGN 1 FEED" C1 is black. Ground it? C4 is Green and labeled "backup lights" H4 is dark green and VSS. Now I left the purple and yellow VSS (and plug end) wires connected to the Fiero harness and will "Y" them to the DOHC purple and yellow wires. They control the speedo correct? What do I do with it? K2 is orange (thicker wire) and labeled "IGN 1 FEED"
Fiero C203 pins: B- connect to DOHC K2? H- connect to DOHC H4? J- connect to DOHC A3?
Fiero C500: A2 is black. Special place to ground? B3 is brown and labeled "charging system" D1 is dark green/white and labeled "coolant fan" E3 is pink and labeled "electronic fuel injection/ multiport fuel injection"
Thank you for any help once again!! I am determined to hear this engine run before fall!
Mike
I'm pretty much guessing, but I can try to help.
If they are red, they will be hot, directly to the battery I believe, but if you have no use for the wire cut it.
Im 90% all blacks are ground, and it wouldn't hurt to ground them, but only one end should have the grommet, the others should lead to sensors, battery, ecu, etc
pink should feed the injectors 12v
orange should feed the ignition 12v
no need for the backup lights if your running the four speed, that is in the cabin for 4 speed fieros.
the fiero brown wire goes to the alternator field on the z34 harness
fiero pink is 12v feed for the injectors.
I cant help with pins much I used the later computer, but the colors GM uses don't change much over years.
I am curious as to why you want to keep the DOHC fuse and relay center, it is just almost as easy to wire the fieros relays and fuse box into the harness.
What do I connect these to though. I see no wires that look the same and do not see anything in the descriptions that sound like they go together really.
On the early model DOHC firewall harness/C100 I have: A3 is pink (thicker wire) and labeled "IGN 1 FEED". DOHC fuse box sais "IGN." Where does it connect to? H4 is dark green and VSS. Was this what controlled the speedo on the DOHC donor car and not needed on the Fiero? K2 is orange (thicker wire) and labeled "IGN 1 FEED". DOHC fuse box sais " DIS." Where does it connect to? Do A3 and K2 ( IGN 1 FEED's ) get power when the key is turned to the "on/run/ start" position? If so then couldn't I relay from one of the same gauge red wires that are extra and use that to power the IGN 1 FEED's? Hide the switch for an anti-theft maybe?
Fiero C203 pins: B- Fuel Pump Fused 12V+ Power supply from Fusebox- orange wire. Sais it comes from the fuse box and goes where? H- VSS 2000ppm Feed to ECM from Speedo- brown. Went to the Fiero computer and not needed now? J- TBI Injector 1 Fused 12v IGN Power. Is it needed with the DOHC fuse box? Fiero computer only? What does it connect to in engine bay? K- TBI Injector 2 Fused 12v IGN Power. Is it needed with the DOHC fuse box? Fiero computter only? What does it connect to in engine bay?
Fiero C500: B3 is brown and labeled "charging system". What does it connect to in the engine compartment? What is an "alternator field" on the DOHC? D1 is dark green/white and labeled "coolant fan". Did this go from the Fiero coolant temp sensor to ECM and now is not needed? E3 is pink and labeled "electronic fuel injection/ multiport fuel injection". Sounds important...
Ug I hate these wires.
The reason I left the DOHC stuff intact is that there are 1/2 the wires to move around and no fuse box to mess with. That firewall connector has WAY more wires than the DOHC firewall connector does. I would have been overwhelmed with it. I am not too good with car wiring unless I have a specific list of "connect this to this" type of thing hehe. Less wires to mess with = less chance of me messing something up and burning out something expensive and/or zapping myself.
Anyone have any new ideas tossing for an upper motor mount? Still trying to figure something out that could brace the motor with the trunk beam that runs across.
Curious, I've been driving my car daily now for a few weeks. Without fail, at about the 20 minute mark, regardless of driving conditions, a lifter will start to tick. It goes away if I idle for 5 minutes. Does this ever go away? Its so annoying! It's not an oil pressure problem. If i flog the engine, it will start to tick, if I drive it on the highway in 5th it will start to tick.
fierobsessed, I have never had that type of a problem with lifters even with the custom cams. I would consider finding a new set of lifters or if you can pinpoint exactly which one then replace that one. Did you put new cam carriers in it when you rebuilt it? You should consider the possibility that some tolerances on the cam carrier's lifter bores are shitty.
BTW, you guys should know that the DOHCFiero site is up but at a different web address. Also, the links on it have to be manually entered. For example, if the link wants to send you to www.dohcfiero.com/transmissions.htm your new address would be www.eleventenths.org/dohcfiero/transmissions.htm and so on. The pictures are on the server too but the links for the pictures dont nessicarily work unless they are manually entered. I want to get the hard copy of the site sometime and post it up on a friends server with it all working.
The web archives work well too if you aren't looking for information with pictures.
I think what you are hearing is REALLY the EGR! I have the same issue, I thought I had forgot to put oil in the car or something! It is very nerve racking. I plan to have my egr deleted on another e-prom. After seeing the ref for the engine swap I am dumping the stock one. I will keep it for smog reasons though.
Curious, I've been driving my car daily now for a few weeks. Without fail, at about the 20 minute mark, regardless of driving conditions, a lifter will start to tick. It goes away if I idle for 5 minutes. Does this ever go away? Its so annoying! It's not an oil pressure problem. If i flog the engine, it will start to tick, if I drive it on the highway in 5th it will start to tick.
This happens to me when: a) my oil needs to be changed, and b) when the oil temperature gets too high, the oil thins out and the lifters bleed down. I also have the same problem in a Mazda Miata. You should try running an oil that is slightly thicker than hot. You likely have a bad lifter with a bad check valve since when your motor heats up it always ticks, but slightly thicker oil could be enough to prevent it from tapping unless you really beat on the engine. I'm running Rotella T 5w-40. It helped a lot with lifter tick problems. My lifters only tap now if I'm running the engine hard and the temp gets up.
First question is: where do the 3 fuel lines coming out of the tank go to? It has been 2 years since I took it apart and the 6 Fieros in the junkyard are all torn apart so I cannot figure it out/remember.
Second question: I think this was answered before, and i DID search, but came up empty. My engine is a 96, has had no oil in the pan for about 3 years, last year I popped off a valve cover and it looked excellent on this claimed 25,000 mile engine. What do I need to do with the oiling system before I start her up? Pour oil on the cams? Disconnect the fuel pump and turn over to prime? I want to try and start it this weekend.
I hope to drop the cradle, separate the engine and trans, install a new clutch and flywheel, mount engine/trans back on, install axles, fill tranny oil, fill engine oil, finish engine wiring, install fuel tank, run fuel lines, install cradle, and install the upper intake and throttle body between sun-wed. this week. Probably not though...........
Three lines from the fuel tank. The fat one (3/8" OD) is the fuel supply line from the fuel pump. The one next to it (5/16" OD) that also points the same direction as the fat one is the fuel return to tank. The other line is the tank Vent line, this connects to either the vapor canister (84-86) or the expansion tank (87-88) its the thinnest of the three lines, usually points a different direction.
Just so long as you match the Large line to the large line on the fuel rail, and have a filter between the two, and match the smaller line up too, you should be ok.
Your ideas for starting a sitting engine sound good, I only reccomend that you remove all the spark plugs before cranking it. This will greatly reduce the chance for wear while the oil gets pumped up.
Did a early morning quick accel run from a roll on a deserted road ..sorry about the chopy vid , youtubes fault
and then the SES light comes on and stays on.
Code 43.
Tested the knock sensor and compared ohm readings with a early N* KS of which were the same at 3.88K .It ended up being a bad sensor that apparently had been going out for sometime because after I used the N* sensor, my car it had more pull throughout the rpm range with a much better idle, very steady instead of hunting and occasionally dying at a stop and low speed drivability improved. Didn't realise how big a change a knock sensor could made overall. Now, I am hoping I will have better mileage IF I can keep my foot out of it
[This message has been edited by Erik (edited 09-28-2008).]
