Now looking back i can see the contradiction to my earlier quote.

THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS ON JUST 3 HOURS OF SLEEP!!!!!!

Thanks Steve for the correction.

Does anyone have a picture of the original TDC wire harness they used. Not a picture of the 2.8 and 3.4 combined I just need a picture of the TDC harness ( prefferabley 91-93) Cause I need to see If I have the whole thing or If something is missing....Thanks..

I'm glad to see this discussion on cam timing, as I had a couple of questions that have already been answered. However, all the tradeoffs from additional valve overlap haven't been identified. Sure, idle will suffer, but so will mileage, emissions, the life of your catalytic converter. Additional valve overlap will increase the amount of air/fuel pulled into the cyl, but in so doing, it will also increase the amount of unburnt in the exhaust. This is not good for mileage, emissions and not good for catalytic converters. So if you're running a cat I would be cautious in increasing the overlap.

quote Originally posted by Formula Owner: I'm glad to see this discussion on cam timing, as I had a couple of questions that have already been answered. However, all the tradeoffs from additional valve overlap haven't been identified. Sure, idle will suffer, but so will mileage, emissions, the life of your catalytic converter. Additional valve overlap will increase the amount of air/fuel pulled into the cyl, but in so doing, it will also increase the amount of unburnt in the exhaust. This is not good for mileage, emissions and not good for catalytic converters. So if you're running a cat I would be cautious in increasing the overlap.

what kind of mileage reductions are seen from aggressive timing?

I know that mileage with the SFI systems is significantly better than the 91-93 MFI systems though

Fieromadman said he gets 30+

but Kohbern says he gets 20+

With the 13* retard I got 27mpg highway with windows up AC off straight 300 mile trip. Only managed 26 on the way back. 16-18 was typical in town, this was all with a getrag

what year is it? SFI? MPI?

Badges don't give you any horsepower :-P

quote Originally posted by Steven Snyder: Badges don't give you any horsepower :-P

Finally get your car back on the road yet ... *Runs and hides! *

[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 12-05-2008).]

so anyone have a pic of the TDC harness? I just need a pic of the whole TDC harness to make sure mine is complete before I start splicing.

91-93 was MPI,
94 and up was SFI

Just Fyi for those who dont know the difference.....

MPI = three batch firing on one bank with the idea that atlease one intake valve will be open and the other two valves will puddle the fuel above the valve untill they open which gets a aditional squirt at that time.

SFI = only fires the injector when the intake valve is open.

Hence SFI usually gets better gas milage.

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[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 12-05-2008).]

quote Originally posted by Emc209i: I just did a pretty extensive search of the net and couldn't find a picture. Pavo: have you come across anything?

I have one out of a 91 Cutlass. It's a 5-speed harness, will that work? Gotta go dig it out though. been hording parts to do this swap. Going to pick up a tdc tommorrow . -Jason

quote Originally posted by Emc209i: For all those I sent PM's too please don't forget Pavo_ Roddy and Sourmug and all of the other who have contributed energy and time to make this thread a possibitly. I've given out +'s to everyone who contributed in this thread. Please take a moment to do so too! Thanks!! Back TO THE THREAD!!! Wiring pictures.

Hi all,

I did my part....hehe.....

------------------
Me, I sell engines, the cars are for free, I need something to crate the engines in....
Enzo Ferrari....

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[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 12-05-2008).]

Does this do anything for you guys?

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[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 12-05-2008).]

If it will stand up to powder coating in a bake oven so I can do the background in red yep it works for me.

I'll check with the mfr about the powder coating process affecting the finish, my concern would be whether it causes it to turn a funny (or not so funny) color...

quote Originally posted by F-I-E-R-O: Does this do anything for you guys?

a badge that says 24v dohc would be cool, i dont see many people advertise the 24 valves, i think they should.

Got my TDC today! Pretty excited to get started. I also dug out the harness I mentioned above, I'll get pics and post them tommorrow. Too dark at this time.
-Jason

Here's pics of the motor.

<------------------------Green with envy @ all u guys

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[This message has been edited by Emc209i (edited 12-05-2008).]

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also who is willing to reproduce a set of there header that they have made?

I'm also wondering if the spacing of the exhuast ports are similar to anything that already exists, so maybe a pre-made set can be hacked up to wokr?

There isnt a single person who makes headers for these motors an by seeing all the people on 60* v6.com and here you could make huge money if somebody made a set.

I think we should be persuading Mr. Francis Truleo (<----I think thats right) to make short runner intakes and headers as he already has them for the 2.8 he's mentioned making them in the past.

If anyone made intakes I think they should make them to look like kolberns first composite intake IMO that looked the best.

quote Originally posted by 4-mulaGT: There isnt a single person who makes headers for these motors an by seeing all the people on 60* v6.com and here you could make huge money if somebody made a set. I think we should be persuading Mr. Francis Truleo (<----I think thats right) to make short runner intakes and headers as he already has them for the 2.8 he's mentioned making them in the past. If anyone made intakes I think they should make them to look like kolberns first composite intake IMO that looked the best.

well people have MADE headers, but they are all one offs, and no one seems to e willing to reproduce them. Procarnut said he could make another set...

I dont know, but for $750 a set you could just have someone custom make a set and save some money.

quote Originally posted by FieroWannaBe: well people have MADE headers, but they are all one offs, and no one seems to e willing to reproduce them. Procarnut said he could make another set...

well no duh! (just kiddn)

I meant people who are producing them and are for sale.

quote Originally posted by Emc209i: Ok we need a good topic again, now that we've all discussed timing... SO Exhaust! The exhaust is most times the most creative fabrication as it is up to whoever is doing the swap to decide how they want to route it, what components to use and how large of a pipe. Post you exhaust pics, and leave a short note about why and how you did it that way. Calling Steven Snyder: please share with us! Will you use the smae settup on your new coupe?

Going into an 88 GT.... All 2 1/2" stainless and a Flowmaster 50 with 3" removed. I'll do the tailpipes once it's in the car. The bulge is a stainless high flow converter. I just liked the idea of having it short and sweet.....and it would have cost 3 times as much to do it in 2 1/2" stainless in the stock 2.8 configuration, not to mention that amount of cutting, welding, and grinding would take me years. This set up keeps the heat off of the starter and coil pack. The only issues I may have are that the cat is close to the trunk but I think a shield will help dispurse the heat, and the system is rigid so I will have to mount the muffler and tails on springs. 5 motor mounts and 2 torque struts should limit the amount of engine movement to keep it from rattling.

Exhaust is a pain in the (expletive deleted).

I have my material orderd, all stainless steel, manderel bends... the usual goods.

I am going all "Fiero style", with the crossover/ "Y" pipe type thing with one flex joint in the Fiero location, a 2.5" catalytic converter, Flowmaster 80 series, 2.5" inlet 2.25" dual outlet and stock Fiero tips, with increased inlet diameter to match the pipe leading to it. I will be using two front manifolds, its just to easy and convienient not to do.

Thats nice and all, makes perfect sense. But I have a dilemma that threatens to give me a lot of trouble. While it seems easy to run the pipe under the cradle, between the oil pan and motor mount to the muffler and out to the tips, two factors have come into play. The 3.4 DOHC has a bigger oilpan that gets closer to the mount then the 2.8's did, and I'm trying to stuff a 2.5" pipe through that spot. I just don't see how it can be done without dipping below the bottom of the cradle by a couple inches, and believe me, I know what happens when you have low pipes... I'm actually quite curious to see what other people have done to remedy exactly this problem. Especially since I'm not interested burning the motor mount or cooking my oil and oil pan.

I've debaited weather or not to use the 2.8's oil pan... but the absolute last thing you would ever want to do to this engine is decrease its oil capacity.

Heres the clearance problem spot...



I just started tacking togather the crossover / Y pipe I made this one out of a stock crossover since it had the proper flanges, flairs and flex joint. And they are stainless too, cant go wrong with that!


And heres the current state of the actual engine I am using.


I am doing my mockups on my 96 crate engine, I have bigger plans for that engine...

The engine I am working on is only for fun, reasearch, and setting up the car for the engine. Then I plan on tuning for boost, kind of a ginea pig for the 96 supercharged motor. I just wanted my car to be fun to drive again, and this was just what the doctor ordered.

The engine I am putting in now is out of a 94 lumina euro 3.4. I am installing it with the 5 speed Fiero getrag which has a cusom arrangment of gears that belong behind a DOHC engine. I am also running the 94-95 ECM, which happens to be pre programmed with a "Manual transmission mode" built in! Just by changing one byte, it skips the Automatic stuff, and loads the manual program. Saves me a headache!

The engine I am pulling from the Fiero is actually already a 3.4... But it has those pesky pushrods. those are going bye bye. Both my Fiero's will be pushrod free.

My ratios:
1st 3.77
2nd 2.19
3rd 1.38
4th 1.03
5th 0.72

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