Everybody has seen the thread on Curley's Wide Body car called the Arch-Rival.
This thread is to determine of there is any REAL interest in a kit to convert a Fiero GT into a Wide Body.
Here's what we are thinking about doing.
Please be very careful to read exactly what we are considering producing.
1) We would be making a set of Integrated Rocker Panels like the ones that are on the Arch-Rival. These would be complete panels that are ready to put on the car like our other integrated rockers are.
2) We would be making a set of "Door Caps" that would be installed onto the top of your original Fiero door panel. I'd call these "builder parts" meaning that someone will actually have to do the labor to glass them onto the car & do the needed body work to blend them into the car for a finished look. This would keep you from having to fabricate them up from scratch like we did, but it wouldn't totally eliminate the need to get your hands dirty.
3) We would be making a set of "Fender Caps" that would be installed onto the top of your original Fiero rear fenders. They would also have a "return" that goes up into the wheel well that the original inner wheel well liner would fit up to. I'd call these "builder parts" meaning that someone will actually have to do the labor to glass them onto the car & do the needed body work to blend them into the car for a finished look. The "return" would aid you in locating these caps in the correct location. These would keep you from having to fabricate them up from scratch like we did, but it wouldn't totally eliminate the need to get your hands dirty.
4) We would be making a complete fiberglass rear bumper that has the ends flared out to meet the other wide body bodywork. This bumper would completely replace your current bumper. It would have "returns" in the wheel wells & the original wheel well liner would fasten to them. the "returns" would also help you to locate the reap bumper in the correct location to match-up to the other wide body parts. These would keep you from having to fabricate them up from scratch like we did, but it wouldn't totally eliminate the need to get your hands dirty.
The pictures would indicate the areas we are considering making molds from.
Making molds for these 7 parts would be a bit expensive & I wouldn't expect to actually sell more than 10 or 15 sets of them over a 3 to 4 year period of time. So that's why I am looking for those that would actually have a REAL interest in purchasing a set. I expect that a set of the 7 parts would have to sell for $2200.00 to $2500.00 to pay for the tooling & manufacturing time & materials.
The time spent on this kit is a huge investment time/money wise.
I would be interested, however I would need to see this installed on a regular GT first would there any plans for that? Thats such a custom fastback top that its hard to picture on a regular non chopped. Also, is there anyway front fender flare pieces could be added into the price I'm not sure if that would be possible or not, but would be great to run wider tire upfront to complement the rear.
Is the car still at the shop? Would love to check it out and sit in a choptop to make sure I can fit.
[This message has been edited by InTheLead (edited 02-16-2007).]
I"m interested. I don't know that I would be the first to buy one, but I do visualize a widebody in my future and this kit would be a lot easier that stating from scratch even though you still have to get your hands dirty to put this on.
Unfortunately, you have been in this business long enough Archie to know that there might be one buyer out of 20 people that say they are interested.
Maybe you can bite off smaller pieces, and splash a mold of the individual pieces and sell them independently. I know it's a lot of work to make the molds, but only a fraction of the time you have invested in makng the originals. People like me might get the pieces over time since their project might not need them for a year or two in the future.
PS - Any chance you might want to build a 1990 Prototype body kit? There is a lot of interest in one of those: https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum1/HTML/063975.html I know it would be a lot of work, and would take years before you broke even, but you might sell a dozen or more right out of the box. The rear of that kit would look a lot like Curley's widebody.
[This message has been edited by jscott1 (edited 02-17-2007).]
i wonder what it would look like with these type of integrated rocker panels on a normal bodied GT. Maybe sell them as a stage 2 integrated rocker panel?
i wonder what it would look like with these type of integrated rocker panels on a normal bodied GT. Maybe sell them as a stage 2 integrated rocker panel?
You'd better hurry-up and use your imagination cause, if there is no "REAL INTEREST" in the, "The Arch Rival's" 7-piece body mods....then the party's over, I pick-up my car, and the "Arch Rival" becomes a "one-off."
------------------ "Anyone can make a copy of something, it may look good but it ever is the real car. Make something from your imagination, something unique, something nobody has, anything is possible and, ideas can be a reality."
I'm about tapped on the mods with my current Fiero, so I may have to follow Curley's footsteps and start over with a new one. Will the mold make the car smooth in the rear as shown, or will it flow with the round molding of the 86+ GT's? If they are kept smooth... Is there a plan to replace the rear side marker light with anything?
Just a suggestion Archie, gained from many years in the autobody industry doing pretty much stuff like you have there. Most people will probably be more comfortable with a complete replacement doorskin. the rear fender sections, once moulded, could have a set made with a return lip (hidden) on them that pretty much follows the Fieros rear shape. The rear pieces could then simply be glued on, making them in the realms of the average body man or home handyman. I am working on the same with stage 2 side scoops at the moment to make the door pieces stick on or mould in.
Madcurl, let me get this straight? You have two cars at Archies plus the silver you have?? Man When I grow up I wanna be just like you! LOL, LOL, what mods will blach death get?
RUNDLC
[This message has been edited by RUNDLC (edited 02-17-2007).]
Madcurl, let me get this straight? You have two cars at Archies plus the silver you have?? Man When I grow up I wanna be just like you! LOL, LOL, what mods will blach death get?
RUNDLC
The Perfect Union owner.
The black choptop (#013) owner is now owned by a guy named Leroy who is a Texan.
Originally posted by pheonix97031: $2,200 is more then my car is even worth....... If they were cheaper, like dropping a zero, I would seriously consider them! Sorry! Mike
I have to agree with the $2200 - $2500 is way to much for most of the people to afford in the fiero comunity. On top of that you are looking at another $1000 - $1800 to have a pro body shop mold the pieces onto the car and get it ready for paint. So the average fiero owner would have more into a primered body than they do into the entire car.
I DO really like the way the IRM's flow on that car. More so than the ones I bought from you. What about offering sets of that style? Would it work without the wide body 1/4's?
Dont take this as a slam in any way but I have your sides on my yellow car. I hate to say that they were some of the worst fitting pieces I have installed on a car of any kind. I had 9 hours into fitting them on my car so that they fit decent to say the least. They were warped badly and did not follow the body lines at all. I bought them from you because I heard you had the best fitting product avab. and I loved the way they flow. I COULD HAVE JUST GOT A BAD SET HOWEVER! I dont know. Like I said its not a slam, but I was and still is very unhappy about the fit of my fiberglass products.
Dont take this as a slam in any way but I have your sides on my yellow car. I hate to say that they were some of the worst fitting pieces I have installed on a car of any kind. I had 9 hours into fitting them on my car so that they fit decent to say the least. They were warped badly and did not follow the body lines at all. I bought them from you because I heard you had the best fitting product avab. and I loved the way they flow. I COULD HAVE JUST GOT A BAD SET HOWEVER! I dont know. Like I said its not a slam, but I was and still is very unhappy about the fit of my fiberglass products.
Sorry to hear of a problem. When did you buy them?, Did you contact me at the time? What's your name, so I can look them up?
Hmm...7-pieces for $2200-2500. Using the high-end ($2500) divided by 7 equals to $357.14 per piece. The original IRM rocker is listed at $400, right? The modified wide-body IRM rocker involves more fiberglass w/extra items and doing the numbers...it's cheaper.
What about the fender flares? That's a very large area of fiberglass compared to the wide-body rockers, but once again the adverage is $357.14 per piece. What's the average cost for most items for our Fieros? Tires, rims, stereo, suspension components, ect....?
Another comparison. What other kits on the market that you know of that are priced less to which maintains the Fiero styling? The Lamborghini or Ferrari doesn't so...., what???
You know, somehow I think that that I must have explained what we are doing here wrong.
Somehow people seem to have misunderstood what we are trying to do here. I'd like to refer you to the build-up on the Arch-Rival https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...1/HTML/050746-6.html In that thread & several others, I've shown you all several times how to work with fiberglass and attach panels.
Starting on about page 6 of that thread you can read & follow along & you'll see just how much work it was to build up Curley's car to where we wanted it. As we worked on it we kept track of how many hours it took to build up the rear flanks, rear bumper & the side skirts. It took 160+ man-hours of body work to get it to where it is now.
What we are trying to do is to produce some fiberglass panels that would cut that time down to about 40 to 50 hours. They also would make the widebodies more uniform from car to car. They also would make the car lighter because they wouldn't require so much build up.
These are not panels designed for the Fiero owner who thinks he can buy some panels & bolt them onto his car & all of a sudden he'll have a clone of Curley's car for $200.00 & 20 minutes of labor.
If $2000 worth of parts & $2000 to build them into the car is too much then you better not go quoting a set of the right wheels & tires that it's going to take to fill up that widebody & make it look right.
These panels installed onto a Fiero GT are a quick inexpensive way to get a car under construction up to the level of Curley's car without spending as much as it has cost to get his car to this point. These panels are for the next Curley or Troy who comes along & wants to take what has been built before & "Tweek It" to make it even better or to make it more personallized to suit his tastes.
No offense to anyone but these parts are not being offered as a cheap, easy fix for the people who think that $2000 worth of fiberglass is the equivalent to buying another stock Fiero that runs. Thses are for the guys who want to build the next Perfect Union or Arch Rival in their own driveway.
The funny thing about this is that I didn't even want to begin producing these panels, I knew that this idea would receive the EXACT response that it has received so far in this thread. But Curley insisted that I try to make something available for the next guy to get a leg up on building the next Fiero that looks even better than Curley's car. Curley's & Troy's cars & a few select others have & are raising the bar on coolest Fiero. And here Curley is trying to give people a head start on raising the bar even farther.
Personally, I have another project that I'd rather molds off of that has a lot more profit potential that this project & the customers on that product don't compare the prices of anything to what it would cost to buy another used Fiero.
So if you don't mind, I'd like to redirect this thread.
If you're someone who compares the price of everything you buy for your Fiero to what you paid for your Fiero, then this project is not for you.
If you're someone who actually realizes how expensive it is to build a car like Curley's or Troy's & realizes how much labor goes into it. or If you're someone who has enough guts to build the next SuperCar Fiero in your driveway & you're not afraid to get your hands dirty & You're wanting to apply the fabrication skills you've learned on this forum, Something like this could be what you are needing to get you started.
How would the rockers and door caps match up with stock Fenders? I know that the ones on curly's car are made to match up with the flipper front. I also think you would get a better response if you able to show what these parts would look like on a regular fastback because not everybody can afford a chop top or wants a chop top for that matter and it maybe hard for some people to imagine what it would look like. Just a suggestion. If I could see a set on a regular car I would be interested and I also agree that it could be a good idea to sell some parts individually that way people could add thier own touches to the kit.
How would the rockers and door caps match up with stock Fenders? I know that the ones on curly's car are made to match up with the flipper front. I also think you would get a better response if you able to show what these parts would look like on a regular fastback because not everybody can afford a chop top or wants a chop top for that matter and it maybe hard for some people to imagine what it would look like. Just a suggestion. If I could see a set on a regular car I would be interested and I also agree that it could be a good idea to sell some parts individually that way people could add thier own touches to the kit.
Good questions. If you've been following the thread on Curley's car you'll notice that we have not yet modified the the front end of the rockers to matchup with the new wheel well openings on the Flipper front end. Since these new rockers are designed off of a set of our regular rocker panels the front end of the will match up with the stock Fiero front wheel well location & size. We plan to pull those molds before we modify the front end of the rockers. The door caps will match up to the stock doors & door handle just as they do on Curley's car now.
Here is a pic of Curley's rocker panel Friday as we had it off for sanding.....
Here is a pic of our regular rocker panel last week when we installed a set for a customer in WI while he waited.
You can see that the front end of the rockers are the same.
If you've noticed the red outlines I've put on the pictures I posted in the beginning of this thread, you'll notice that I only intend to take molds off of the fender above the where the side trim would be. Also the top of that part would not extend up into the "B" & "C" pillars of the roofline. The top of the fender mold would be kinda like this (the black part) only about 3" higher..........
Yes, the parts will be available seperately but thay are designed to work together for the Rival look.
Archie
[This message has been edited by Archie (edited 02-18-2007).]
How would the rockers and door caps match up with stock Fenders? If I could see a set on a regular car I would be interested and I also agree that it could be a good idea to sell some parts individually that way people could add thier own touches to the kit.
The front tire area of the wide body rocker is the same as the old style. Archie and the Crew did not modify this area. The Crew modified the Norms C6 flipper lips...not the front rocker/wheel area.
As for "bubble top" fastback Fiero examples, the only two I can think of are: MTA's and the Redux.
These are not panels designed for the Fiero owner who thinks he can buy some panels & bolt them onto his car & all of a sudden he'll have a clone of Curley's car for $200.00 & 20 minutes of labor.
Thanks
Archie
Archie, I don't envy you trying to make a living off Fiero owners...for every guy like Curley or Troyboy there are 998 others who want a bolt-on part for $20.
Like I said I am interested, but even if you had the parts tomorrow I'm not ready for them yet. I have two other cars I need to complete before I consider a widebody. But I think those widebody rockers alone would be nice.
I think the average person realizes that you can't take any fiberglass piece and just bolt it on...it's going to take some work to smooth it in and make it looks like it belongs there. My rockers are now smoothed in and look like they belong. Not like when they were just riveted on.
Sorry guys been off the forum for awhile due to computer problems, so i have not seen this thread.
I for one would definatly be interested in a set of these molds. I agree the price is a little high for most, but Archie and his team have put a lot of work into Curly's car and the molds would be even more work.
For me it would be a long term project in building my dream car. I might even have to buy the pieces a few at a time, but i would definatly end up getting them all in a year or so.
I know of at least one other person who has been waiting on these molds and he has the cash now !
I don't think he has seen this thread yet Archie so i PM' d him.
Guys most of our cars are long term projects anyway so buying these in pieces over time might be an option for some also.
1.- What happen to the Front fenders and bumper. If I recall correctly MC did the front bumper mod and fenders wider on #15. 2.- How much wider is it (did i miss this info?) and will you provide wheel offset data? 3.- No Camero spoiler (duck tail). No biggie these are easy to find in junk yards. 4.- What would happen with the gas cap (did i miss this info?)?
For some reason I was thinking this widebody was more like MC's #15. To cut cost and material Archie, wouldn't it be convenient to make bumper caps instead the complete rear and for the front too?
Personally I think the price is fair. Archie, I bet people would react more positive to it if the price if it were $1999.99... like the stores do... It's a mind thing. I'm very interested and like to see it on a stock Fiero before committing. Archie we also chatted about your rocker panels I currently have.....
I have to agree if your're bother by the price then look elsewhere. I got my Fiero not for profit but for a hobby. Like women buy jewelry, purses, shoes, get their nail and hair done, get plastic surgery, etc to look good (God bless them ) us guys (and some gals too ) like our toys to look good and you need to invest. If your are looking to invest $200 in your car, it's going to look like $200.
[This message has been edited by FierociousGT (edited 02-18-2007).]
To go back to your original question, Archie, my answer is 'No.' And it's all my own reasons, I don't pretend to know other's minds about such things.
I wouldn't be interested because of the money. But, I wouldn't be interested even if the parts were price at around a grand. We spend our Fiero money on things that appeal to us, wide body doesn't do it for me.
But also, a couple of grand (or even just 1 grand) is a good down payment on a complete rebody. With my Fiero dollars (and at the moment they're pretty scarce) I'd rather do a Fino or Finale rebody with a good paint job. (someday, maybe.)
I have a set of the integrated rocker panels you sell, got them on a parts car I bought last summer. The panels are nice, and they'll be used on a Formula project I'm working on, but truth be told I would never spend money to acquire them (same with the ZR2 hood I've got leaning against the fence in my backyard.) There are just too many good alternatives to spend my very hard earned Fiero bucks on.
To cut cost and material Archie, wouldn't it be convenient to make bumper caps instead the complete rear ...?
Then people would complain that it was too much work to bond on the bumper caps and would want to have the entire bumper and not just the caps, (but they still wouldn't want to pay any extra)
I wouldn't be interested because of the money. But, I wouldn't be interested even if the parts were price at around a grand. We spend our Fiero money on things that appeal to us, wide body doesn't do it for me.
But also, a couple of grand (or even just 1 grand) is a good down payment on a complete rebody. With my Fiero dollars (and at the moment they're pretty scarce) I'd rather do a Fino or Finale rebody with a good paint job. (someday, maybe.) .
Well Sir let me ask you some question[s]: "Just "how much" does a Fino or Finale cost? Or a Aldino or a Enterra cost? Do [we] or [should] we complain about the cost of those perticular mods? So far, I've never read many responses concerning the "cost" of them? What about the "cost" all of those "engine" swaps?
I personally find it "strange" or backwards thinking that, [we] as a Fiero community will go all-out and down right justify everything known to MAN, when it comes to "engine" mods. LT1, LS1, 3800SC, stroked, chromed, & cyro'd but, some of us, "are asleep" when it comes to the outside of OUR FIEROS while the "world of auto makers" passes us bye. When a Ford Escort has a better front end or a few side body lines----I think it time to rethink old ideas.
[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 02-18-2007).]
1.- What happen to the Front fenders and bumper. If I recall correctly MC did the front bumper mod and fenders wider on #15. 2.- How much wider is it (did i miss this info?) and will you provide wheel offset data? 3.- No Camero spoiler (duck tail). No biggie these are easy to find in junk yards. 4.- What would happen with the gas cap (did i miss this info?)?
1) Yes the front fenders are not addressed yet in this widebody thing. I know that Curley widened #15 but we haven't modeled that yet.
2) In the rear the lip above the tire at the centerline of the wheel is 5-3/8" wider than a stock GT which is 2-11/16" per side. As you may know HRE custom made the wheels for Troy & Curley's cars using measurements I provided. But yet they refuse to provide those guys with the exact offsets data that are on the wheels they bought. I have taken very close measurements off of those wheels & I will provide that info to those that want it. HOWEVER, it has to be provided under the understanding that I'm not responsible if that data is used to buy wheels that for some reason don't fit correctly.
3) Correct
4) The gas cap on Curleys car will be Frenched in, with a stock Fiero door, like it is on my Fino/Finale kits.
quote
Originally posted by FierociousGT:
For some reason I was thinking this widebody was more like MC's #15. To cut cost and material Archie, wouldn't it be convenient to make bumper caps instead the complete rear and for the front too?
Curley's car #15 had the ends built up with body filler & kept the soft center section of the Fiero bumper. And, with Curley's approval we fiberglassed the ends up on this car we are working on now. However, I don't really like having the ends fiberglassed or bondo'ed to the soft center section. I think that everntually I think that area will crack at some point. I can see a nice paint job on this type of bumper someday & someone looking at it at a show punching the center section with his knee to see if it's a soft bumper & causing a nice crack where they attach together. So the solution is a complete fiberglass rear bumper. Once we get the mold off of this bumper I intend to take the 1st part out of that mold & put it on Curley's car just to adoid any problems in the future.
quote
Originally posted by FierociousGT:
Personally I think the price is fair. Archie, I bet people would react more positive to it if the price if it were $1999.99... like the stores do... It's a mind thing. I'm very interested and like to see it on a stock Fiero before committing. Archie we also chatted about your rocker panels I currently have.....
I have to agree if your're bother by the price then look elsewhere. I got my Fiero not for profit but for a hobby. Like women buy jewelry, purses, shoes, get their nail and hair done, get plastic surgery, etc to look good (God bless them ) us guys (and some gals too ) like our toys to look good and you need to invest. If your are looking to invest $200 in your car, it's going to look like $200.
I'd like to announce a new price point on these panels. The price has been reduced to $1999.98 to 2599.98
As everyone knows by now, I don't take people's money for parts that I don't already have in production. I don't think a vendor should take down payments on items & then use those down payments to actually produce the items that they just sold. I think a Vendor should invest his own money in R&D & then offer it for sale. If the vendor has a good product or idea, he makes a few bucks. If the product sucks, he loses a bunch of $$$. So you can bet that you'll see these parts on a Fiero before you'll ever be asked to spend any of your Fiero $$$.
To be honest, I've decided this weekend that I'm going to go ahead & build these molds. I'm sure that in the near future I'm going to be building 2 or 3 more widebodies & these panels will save those customers some serious $$$$. Also these panels can be used as "building blocks" for many other custom variations or our beloved Fieros.
Now I have a question.....
This is not necessarily related to this thread
There are several other big (in Fiero terms) Fiero Vendors on this Forum. None of them participate on this Forum on a daily basis. Some of them only post when they have something to sell. None of them post threads, with daily updates, of projects they are doing. None of them has been as open as to what they are working on or doing in their shops as I've been. Yet none of them are as DISS'ed or attacked as often as I am. I've never DISS'ed anyone who didn't DISS me 1st.
Are my contributions here unwanted? Should I quit posting build up threads here? Is anyone in doubt as to my committment to servicing the Fiero community?
No archie ..you are very welcome'd here.I myself love watch the stuff u make and show the world..As for the price i do think it is very fair priced.I really think u have to pick and chose to who to listen too.I mean come on 2200 usd or so for a real nice kit.I would be very happy but then again there people that wont pay because they want it for free.We all know them.Those people need to learn to save their money and not go drinking for party or do god knows whatever and just save and soon they have their money to get the kit,,I mean really i have never heard more cry baby's.U think the fiero does not cost more then other cars to keep on the road..Maybe u guys should sale ur cars and buy a honda and stop biatch about the price of kits and stuff.
No archie ..you are very welcome'd here.I myself love watch the stuff u make and show the world..As for the price i do think it is very fair priced.I really think u have to pick and chose to who to listen too.I mean come on 2200 usd or so for a real nice kit.I would be very happy but then again there people that wont pay because they want it for free.We all know them.Those people need to learn to save their money and not go drinking for party or do god knows whatever and just save and soon they have their money to get the kit,,I mean really i have never heard more cry baby's.U think the fiero does not cost more then other cars to keep on the road..Maybe u guys should sale ur cars and buy a honda and stop biatch about the price of kits and stuff.
Keep up the Gr8 work Archie
I agree. Or [they] need to sell the 10,000 Fieros that are stock piling in their back yards.... hoarding them like they're some type of golden cow. Clean house and keep two (one regular and one modded).
I'd like to announce a new price point on these panels. The price has been reduced to $1999.98 to 2599.98
As everyone knows by now, I don't take people's money for parts that I don't already have in production. I don't think a vendor should take down payments on items & then use those down payments to actually produce the items that they just sold. I think a Vendor should invest his own money in R&D & then offer it for sale. If the vendor has a good product or idea, he makes a few bucks. If the product sucks, he loses a bunch of $$$. So you can bet that you'll see these parts on a Fiero before you'll ever be asked to spend any of your Fiero $$$.
Thanks
Archie
Thanks for all your support. I couldn't agree more with your comments. As I stated in another thread I won't accept money unless I have a product in my hand ready to ship. I don't think it's fair to use people's money to develop a product, that may or may not be everything that was promised. Better to have something to actually sell before asking for money.
I can see a widebody in my future and this looks like it will be an affordable way to get a widebody custom kit.
Well Sir let me ask you some question[s]: "Just "how much" does a Fino or Finale cost? Or a Aldino or a Enterra cost? Do [we] or [should] we complain about the cost of those perticular mods? So far, I've never read many responses concerning the "cost" of them? What about the "cost" all of those "engine" swaps?
You know as well as I do what a Finale/Fino costs. And my point is that a grand or two is a good start on getting to that magic 5 grand for the kit (and a grand or two or three for the paint.)
And I know there are guys here that seem to have unlimited funds to toss into their 20 year old cars. There are lots of us that don't, tho, too. And everything we do gets finely scrutinized for cost and benefit.
My choice, especially when it comes to body stuff is to have a fairly cutting edge look. I'd be more likely to spend 5 grand on one of Archie's rebody kits than spend $400 for an integrated rocker panel kit, or that silly ZR2 stuff that Pisa sells. And if they hadn't come as part of a mostly piece of crap 86 SE I bought last spring, I wouldn't have them. I wouldn't spend a dime on a faux countach, ferarri, or gt40 kit either. We all have our own tastes, Archies car kits have much more one off look to them--making them ultra exotic to me.
And by extension, in my eye, the look of wide bodies has a retro (or less diplomatically obsolete ) look to me. I would not choose a late 80's Nascar look for my car.
And since you brought it up, engine swaps are really a pretty natural thing to do--and does score pretty favorably on the cost vs benefit scale. For those of us on a close budget, a Caddy or 3.8 SC conversion gives pretty decent bang for the buck and is approachable by we 'mere mortals.' If our favorite car had lasted into the mid 90s, perhaps it would have ended up with an Aurora*, N*, or supercharged engine.
Thanks Archie for answering my questions. Now I have few more requests. I would like to see a picture of the door open so I can see the rear add on. I like the wide body but I am not too sure on the door caps. And to make the car differant the the Arch rival I would probably not do the door caps. so my question is would it be possible to blend the rear quarter panels so that they end at the door and still have the smooth effect.
Also I am guessing that the moldings around the car get removed and smoothed with this kit. Am I right or do you leave the molding on the rear bumper?
And third would this be able to be fitted to a notchback? Or would this be strictly a fastback kit?
I would like to thank you for your work and involvement in the forum. I haved learned a lot from your threads in the short time I have been on here. So keep up the good work and can't wait to see progrss on the kit.
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) us guys (and some gals too 
) like our toys to look good and you need to invest. If your are looking to invest $200 in your car, it's going to look like $200.
