Pennock's Fiero Forum
  General Fiero Chat
  Any REAL interest in a widebody kit? (Page 16)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Email This Page to Someone! | Printable Version

This topic is 25 pages long:  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25 
Previous Page | Next Page
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Any REAL interest in a widebody kit? by Archie
Started on: 02-16-2007 01:24 PM
Replies: 982 (124618 views)
Last post by: FieroFastBackL67 on 11-16-2015 02:58 PM
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post02-08-2008 07:12 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The Bar being raised:




IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post02-10-2008 01:43 AM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Perfecting a Mad-Arch Fastback widebody w/19x 11" rollors.

IP: Logged
MotorTV
Member
Posts: 260
From: chicago,il,usa
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-10-2008 02:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MotorTVClick Here to visit MotorTV's HomePageSend a Private Message to MotorTVEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

Perfecting a Mad-Arch Fastback widebody w/19x 11" rollors.


Ahem... 315 mm wide / 25.4 = 12.4" wide :-)
Chuck
IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post02-10-2008 02:21 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Chuck, are you going to dis-assemble the rims for black centers or leave as-is?
IP: Logged
MotorTV
Member
Posts: 260
From: chicago,il,usa
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-10-2008 03:01 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MotorTVClick Here to visit MotorTV's HomePageSend a Private Message to MotorTVEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

Hey Chuck, are you going to dis-assemble the rims for black centers or leave as-is?


I like them just the way they are...
Chuck
IP: Logged
chrisgtp
Member
Posts: 411
From: st.louis mo
Registered: Nov 2006


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-15-2008 11:14 AM Click Here to See the Profile for chrisgtpSend a Private Message to chrisgtpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
ok this is my attempt but here is an idea of the wide body with the finale front end
IP: Logged
chrisgtp
Member
Posts: 411
From: st.louis mo
Registered: Nov 2006


Feedback score: (2)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-15-2008 12:53 PM Click Here to See the Profile for chrisgtpSend a Private Message to chrisgtpEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

chrisgtp

411 posts
Member since Nov 2006
my fav

IP: Logged
whodeanie
Member
Posts: 3819
From: woodstock,Ga.,USA
Registered: Jan 2008


Feedback score:    (14)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post02-15-2008 04:24 PM Click Here to See the Profile for whodeanieClick Here to visit whodeanie's HomePageSend a Private Message to whodeanieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I will take 2
IP: Logged
02greens10
Member
Posts: 813
From: Ashland, Ohio
Registered: Feb 2008


Feedback score:    (24)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post02-15-2008 06:55 PM Click Here to See the Profile for 02greens10Send a Private Message to 02greens10Edit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
.
IP: Logged
kwagner
Member
Posts: 4258
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered: Apr 2005


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 62
Rate this member

Report this Post02-22-2008 01:17 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kwagnerClick Here to visit kwagner's HomePageSend a Private Message to kwagnerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Are there any pics of a non-chop fastback with the widebody front and rear? I went back through to page 9 and saw one with just the rear on it I think. I really like how this came out, seems like the perfect start for someone wanting a widebody but wants to add some 'custom flair' to it. Price is right, too

Edit: having stock wheels would be a help, too, as it's hard to get an idea for just how wide it is when the wheels match in width (like an optical illusion trying to compare to a stock fiero)

[This message has been edited by kwagner (edited 02-22-2008).]

IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post02-22-2008 02:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by kwagner:

Are there any pics of a non-chop fastback with the widebody front and rear? I went back through to page 9 and saw one with just the rear on it I think. I really like how this came out, seems like the perfect start for someone wanting a widebody but wants to add some 'custom flair' to it. Price is right, too

Edit: having stock wheels would be a help, too, as it's hard to get an idea for just how wide it is when the wheels match in width (like an optical illusion trying to compare to a stock fiero)



Answer on pg 1.
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:

2) In the rear the lip above the tire at the centerline of the wheel is 5-3/8" wider than a stock GT which is 2-11/16" per side. As you may know HRE custom made the wheels for Troy & Curley's cars using measurements I provided. But yet they refuse to provide those guys with the exact offsets data that are on the wheels they bought. I have taken very close measurements off of those wheels & I will provide that info to those that want it. HOWEVER, it has to be provided under the understanding that I'm not responsible if that data is used to buy wheels that for some reason don't fit correctly.


Thanks

Archie


The primer white fastback is also featured, but I'm not sure if someone has bought it, but the Mad-Arch kit (in this case) comes with the car.

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
kwagner
Member
Posts: 4258
From: Pittsburgh, PA
Registered: Apr 2005


Feedback score: (3)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 62
Rate this member

Report this Post02-22-2008 03:31 PM Click Here to See the Profile for kwagnerClick Here to visit kwagner's HomePageSend a Private Message to kwagnerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

Answer on pg 1.


D'oh! Of course I worked my way backwards and didn't get to page 1 Thanks!
IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post03-02-2008 02:16 AM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Archie, where nearing March 6th.
IP: Logged
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-02-2008 10:35 AM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

Hey Archie, where nearing March 6th.


What happens on the 6th.?
IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post03-02-2008 01:48 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:


What happens on the 6th.?


How soon we forget, hehe. Do I owe you dinner at Black Hawk diner?

IP: Logged
Archie
Member
Posts: 9436
From: Las Vegas, NV
Registered: Dec 1999


Feedback score:    (12)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 546
Rate this member

Report this Post03-02-2008 06:26 PM Click Here to See the Profile for ArchieClick Here to visit Archie's HomePageSend a Private Message to ArchieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:


How soon we forget, hehe. Do I owe you dinner at Black Hawk diner?


You have a PM or you can just call me on the cell.

Archie
IP: Logged
War Hammer
Member
Posts: 377
From: Myrtle Beach, SC USA
Registered: Jan 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post03-08-2008 02:58 AM Click Here to See the Profile for War HammerSend a Private Message to War HammerEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey Archie,

I got my wide body kit this week. I haven't opened it yet I need some time to recover then I can start.

Paul
IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post03-08-2008 02:38 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by War Hammer:

Hey Archie,

I got my wide body kit this week. I haven't opened it yet I need some time to recover then I can start.

Paul


That's Good news. How big is the box or crate and weight? Please do take a pic prior to opening.

IP: Logged
CowsPatoot
Member
Posts: 2792
From: Skidway Lake, MI
Registered: May 2007


Feedback score:    (29)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 84
Rate this member

Report this Post03-08-2008 08:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for CowsPatootClick Here to visit CowsPatoot's HomePageSend a Private Message to CowsPatootEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Can't wait to see pics of an average person taking on this project. Archies pics are great, but make it look a little overwhelming for the little guy who has no real body experience.
IP: Logged
exoticse
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Orlando, Fl
Registered: Jun 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 108
Rate this member

Report this Post04-03-2008 01:25 AM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

* Bump*

The complete kit with mounting hardware as needed & instructions is $1950.00 (plus shipping).

Individual parts are......
Rocker Panels = $750.00/pair
Rear Bumper = $550.00
Door Caps = $300.00/pair
Fender Caps = $550.00/pair

IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post04-05-2008 04:29 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post




[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 04-05-2008).]

IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
exoticse
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Orlando, Fl
Registered: Jun 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 108
Rate this member

Report this Post05-28-2008 11:18 AM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by War Hammer:

Hey Archie,

I got my wide body kit this week. I haven't opened it yet I need some time to recover then I can start.

Paul


hammer, got a chance to open the kit yet ?
IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post06-15-2008 09:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by exoticse:


hammer, got a chance to open the kit yet ?



A birdie told me somebody else got a Mad-Arch wide body kit too.
IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post06-15-2008 10:15 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post

madcurl

21401 posts
Member since Jul 2003

IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post07-02-2008 01:25 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:
A birdie told me somebody else got a Mad-Arch wide body kit too.


Another birdie just flew in wanting a set.
IP: Logged
BitStream
Member
Posts: 19
From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-12-2008 06:20 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BitStreamSend a Private Message to BitStreamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hi All...

I am new to this forum and I have one work for it.... AWSOME.. keep up the great posts...

Archie...

I want a Wide Body Kit A.S.A.P.

Going onto a 86 SE Notchback... However, I live in Alberta Canada...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

I can be contacted through this forum as well as bitstream@shaw.ca

Thanks...
IP: Logged
BitStream
Member
Posts: 19
From: Red Deer, Alberta, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-14-2008 04:09 PM Click Here to See the Profile for BitStreamSend a Private Message to BitStreamEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Woo Hoo...

Just ordered my Wide Body kit today...

Thanks Archie...

Now there is so much other stuff I want to do.... Time to start on some interior mods as soon as I get a chance...

Ervin
IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post07-14-2008 04:42 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by BitStream:

Woo Hoo...

Just ordered my Wide Body kit today...

Thanks Archie...

Now there is so much other stuff I want to do.... Time to start on some interior mods as soon as I get a chance...

Ervin


Sounds good to me!

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 07-14-2008).]

IP: Logged
SAFASTRO
Member
Posts: 604
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Registered: Nov 2006


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-14-2008 04:52 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SAFASTROClick Here to visit SAFASTRO's HomePageSend a Private Message to SAFASTROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
DAMN.....I thought I'd be the first with a widebodied Fiero in Alberta........welcome to the forum!!
Oh well......I guess this just means I'll have to work a little faster.

------------------
Order your Official Pennock's Forum decals in this thread. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/040445.html



2" Choptop
Shortened Front Bumper
Shortened Rear Bumper
10" Stretch
Dubs
350 V8 Conversion pushing 350 ponies!!

IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post07-22-2008 02:07 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by Archie:


I believe so.

There is one thing I forgot to mention from our extended visit to Tire Rack. The wheels we ended up getting & the final tire size package for this car had to be built from the parts bin. In other words the correct inner & outer rings had to be selected out of inventory & as of now you can't order this combination online. The engineer we dealt with said that once the fitment has been proven out, they'll actually add another model to the "Fiero" online selection. You'll actually be able to order any OZ center section with the correct inner & outer plus tires just as if you're ordering for another model of the Fiero.

Very Cool.

Archie



Did the Tire Rack revise the site application for 19/20 or 18/20 combos on a Fiero?

[This message has been edited by madcurl (edited 07-22-2008).]

IP: Logged
whodeanie
Member
Posts: 3819
From: woodstock,Ga.,USA
Registered: Jan 2008


Feedback score:    (14)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post07-22-2008 03:10 PM Click Here to See the Profile for whodeanieClick Here to visit whodeanie's HomePageSend a Private Message to whodeanieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Got mine yesterday. I cant wait to install it..
IP: Logged
PFF
System Bot
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post07-30-2008 05:04 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Yeah, I finally saw the Mad-Arch kit on a notch back... beautiful.

IP: Logged
MotorTV
Member
Posts: 260
From: chicago,il,usa
Registered: Nov 2001


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post07-30-2008 05:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for MotorTVClick Here to visit MotorTV's HomePageSend a Private Message to MotorTVEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by madcurl:

Yeah, I finally saw the Mad-Arch kit on a notch back... beautiful.


I Want... I Want....
Oh wait.............
I Got... I Got.... :-)
Chuck
IP: Logged
exoticse
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Orlando, Fl
Registered: Jun 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 108
Rate this member

Report this Post07-30-2008 06:43 PM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
For those who have not seen Chuck's car or the widebody kit in general, let me tell you we are talking about things of beauty !



It was amazing watching people watch chuck's car as it rolled down the roadways. Jaws were dropping, heads were snapping, and people were simply drooling.

The car really has an exotic look to it,...... very, very impressive, a must see in person.

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 08-02-2008).]

IP: Logged
madcurl
Member
Posts: 21401
From: In a Van down by the Kern River
Registered: Jul 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 314
Rate this member

Report this Post07-30-2008 07:59 PM Click Here to See the Profile for madcurlSend a Private Message to madcurlEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by exoticse:
For those who have not seen Chuck's car or the widebody kit in general, let me tell you we are talking about things of beauty !

It was amazing watching people watch chuck's car as it rolled down the roadways. Jaws were dropping, heads were snapping, and people were simply drooling.

The car really has an exotic look to it,...... very, very impressive, a must see in person.


Don't forget, Chuck's rollers where banging right down the chrome valve caps!
IP: Logged
whodeanie
Member
Posts: 3819
From: woodstock,Ga.,USA
Registered: Jan 2008


Feedback score:    (14)
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 120
Rate this member

Report this Post07-31-2008 08:47 AM Click Here to See the Profile for whodeanieClick Here to visit whodeanie's HomePageSend a Private Message to whodeanieEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
 
quote
Originally posted by CowsPatoot:

Can't wait to see pics of an average person taking on this project. Archies pics are great, but make it look a little overwhelming for the little guy who has no real body experience.


Here are some pic's of my work on my widebody. so far it is fairly easy to install. just to let you know Archie did A great job on the fitment.

This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
This images is larger than 153600 bytes. Click to view.
thanks, Archie I love the kit and I will keep you posted
IP: Logged
exoticse
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Orlando, Fl
Registered: Jun 2003


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback





Total ratings: 108
Rate this member

Report this Post08-02-2008 12:21 AM Click Here to See the Profile for exoticseSend a Private Message to exoticseEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
The designer and his creation !

Madcurl and the Mad-Arch widebody kit:



GM eat your heart out !

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 08-02-2008).]

IP: Logged
The_Ikon
Member
Posts: 629
From: Mississippi, USA
Registered: Mar 2004


Feedback score: N/A
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post08-02-2008 03:36 AM Click Here to See the Profile for The_IkonClick Here to visit The_Ikon's HomePageSend a Private Message to The_IkonEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Nice B-kit! I wonder if I can install it myself? Is it an easy kit to install? How is the durability of the kit guys?

Did I say it was nice! LOL
IP: Logged
Macs86GT
Member
Posts: 2276
From: hagerstown Maryland
Registered: Apr 2008


Feedback score:    (6)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post08-02-2008 09:27 AM Click Here to See the Profile for Macs86GTSend a Private Message to Macs86GTEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
I so want one. I would also like to know how hard is it to install? Either way once I finish my degree Archie will more then likely be meeting my fiero for some work.
IP: Logged
SAFASTRO
Member
Posts: 604
From: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Registered: Nov 2006


Feedback score:    (7)
Leave feedback

Rate this member

Report this Post08-03-2008 10:57 PM Click Here to See the Profile for SAFASTROClick Here to visit SAFASTRO's HomePageSend a Private Message to SAFASTROEdit/Delete MessageReply w/QuoteDirect Link to This Post
Hey whodeanie!
Nice install so far!!! I can't wait to see a widebody on a non-chopped GT with that f355 nose all primered up.
Keep up the great work!!

------------------
Order your Official Pennock's Forum decals in this thread. https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum4/HTML/040445.html



2" Choptop
Shortened Front Bumper
Shortened Rear Bumper
10" Stretch
Dubs
350 V8 Conversion pushing 350 ponies!!

IP: Logged
Previous Page | Next Page

This topic is 25 pages long:  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   10   11   12   13   14   15   16   17   18   19   20   21   22   23   24   25 
next newest topic | next oldest topic

All times are ET (US)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Back To Main Page

Advertizing on PFF | Fiero Parts Vendors
PFF Merchandise | Fiero Gallery
Real-Time Chat | Fiero Related Auctions on eBay



Copyright (c) 1999, C. Pennock