Well I have had my LS4 motor/trans for about 6 months or so and really havent done much with it. Decided it was time to start a Thread so maybe I will get to working on it a little more. The motor/trans is out of a 06 Monte Carlo with 36K on it that was burned from the rear all the way to the front seats. I got the motor/trans with all acc parts, axles, wiring harness with PCM and the DBW pedal from the same car. The motor/trans will be going into my 88 GT that was an 5 speed car but will be converted over to an auto car. I had plans to add internal MODs to the motor right off the bat but have decided to get the motor installed and running in stock form and go from there. I will be keeping the DBW TB and possibly the DOD/Tapshift function but still havent made up my mind if I needs these extra functions. I will be using WCF transmisson mounts with poly to mount the transmission and poly engine mounts attached to the stock LS4 mounts to mount the engine. The motor/trans will be mounted in 4 postions on the cradle insuring that is doesnt go anywhere. Here are a few pictures of where where I am at now with the swap.
As you can see I havent made it very far with the swap but this will change in the next month or so.
I agree!! Being able to have at least the three LS4 threads that I know of going on together should be able to share alot of learning and discussion on the three paths taken. I think we're all going about it differently, which is awesome. I'm so amazed that you and Fierophrek have enough knowledge and guts to go at this yourself. I'm also lucky I found Ryan to lead me through mine. I can't wait to be able to put up three sound waves to hear these babies groan for the first time! Good Luck with your build!!
Would you - or anyone else - happen to know the weight of the LS4? Seems like it would be pretty light for what it puts out, not to mention compact and probably not too bad on gas ... and this has the same cylinder head as the LS6 right? So plenty of performance potential beyond stock.
Based on what Darth Fiero has measured on my LS4 swap...
By itself, the LS4 longblock (block, internals, heads; but NO intake or assy's) weighs 339 lbs. Now before you get too excited about this number you need to keep in mind other components are needed (such as water pump, alternator, starter, etc) in the swap. Once you add all the assy's, brackets, and mounting hardware, the weight total swells to 478 lbs! Just to give you an idea of how the weight total added up so quickly, here are the weights of the various components...
As you can see, all of these extra components weigh something. I think that when people on this forum throw out weights of engines they are going to use in their swaps, sometimes they omit the weight of required hardware and components needed in the swap as well. I know this weight total for the LS4 sounds like a lot, but compare this with a fully dressed iron-block SBC. I bet that SBC even with alum heads probably weighs 100lbs or so more than this LS4 once you bolt everything on it required for the swap. Just for reference, the 4T65-E weighs 214 lbs.
I think when everythings said and done I would have gained about 75lbs from the 2.8L and Getrag tranny...but improved hp from 140hp to about 350hp, so I'm not upset.
WOW--I forgot all about making this Thread. I just moved my LS4 back off the cradle to work on the trans mounts and the engine mounting solution. The only thing that has changed on the swap is the car its going in. I am going to put it in the 88 Coupe I drive now after I pull the 3800SC swap out of it and put into the GT. After seeing what is going to need to be done to the engine bay, I dont wanna have to cut anything on my GT. Will take some pictures once I make aome progress.
The engine swapping guides are almost useless as far as accurate enigine weights are concerned. For the most part, they do not list whether the engine was weighed with accessories or without, with flywheel & clutch or not. For example, the weight of the LQ4 ( Z34 DOHC 3.4L Twin Dual Cam ) engine is widely quoted at 492 lbs dressed. Everyone attributes that to the wide heads, four cams, cast iron manifolds, etc etc. But, I weighed a Fiero GT with the swap and got 2860 lbs wet with 5 speed. That is only about 70 lbs more than the same car with the stock 2.8! The 2.8 is supposed to weigh in at about 340 lbs.
. For example, the weight of the LQ4 ( Z34 DOHC 3.4L Twin Dual Cam ) engine is widely quoted at 492 lbs dressed. Everyone attributes that to the wide heads, four cams, cast iron manifolds, etc etc.
Mine weighed 465 dressed with a manual fiero flywheel
Well I have been slowly working on getting the LS4 mounted onto the cradle and am 95% done with that part. Now that the hunting season is over, I will be working on the swap more and hopefully get it done soon. Plans have changed again and the motor/trans will be going into my 88 GT instead of my Coupe. Should have the motor/trans mounted on the cradle this week and then start working on the Alt. low mount. I will get a few updated pictures of where the swap is at but not much has changed from the other pictures I posted.
Well I have been slowly working on getting the LS4 mounted onto the cradle and am 95% done with that part. Now that the hunting season is over, I will be working on the swap more and hopefully get it done soon. Plans have changed again and the motor/trans will be going into my 88 GT instead of my Coupe. Should have the motor/trans mounted on the cradle this week and then start working on the Alt. low mount. I will get a few updated pictures of where the swap is at but not much has changed from the other pictures I posted.
Yeah--I am confused myself---Thats my setup but I am still working on the install. I changed my mind on the swap and then changed it again and then again!!!!
so why are you thinking about selling it? is the swap more than what you wanted to take on.
might have to sell my 3.4TDC car so i can get that motor/trans from you.
Nah--The swap is pretty str8 forward and not much differant from any other swap. I was on the fence on installing it into my 88 GT because of the cutting, the tight fit and the gas mileage with prices going up. I have kept working on it even after I put it up for sale and will have it test fitted into the car this week. Its going to be a nice swap once done and really bring the car to life.
Been getting a little work done on the swap and have the mounting solution for the motor/trans worked on and in place. I used the same mounts used to mount the 65E on the 3800 swap and then 2 3800 poly engine mounts modified to mount the engine side. To mount the engine mounts to the cradle, I welded 2 plates to the cradle and then welded the lower portion of the engine mount to the plates. With the setup in place, the only contact with the motor/trans to cradle was with the front corner of the trans but a little reworking of the metal in tha area and it cleared. Going to figure out a low mount solution for the Alt and then test fit the setup into the car and see what needs to be modified.
I finally have the motor/trans mounted on the cradle with the mounts I made up. Working on the low mount issue now and think I found a way to use the stock Alt bracket flipped to make a low mount for the setup. I have to test fit the setup into the car to see if its going to work or need tilted in torward the motor some more. Still have to find a source for the wiring but not having any luck but there is still plenty of time before I am ready for that part. Will add some pictures later.
Aww, tell Indy that I said hello. You should mount some tires that hold air on it, just for photo sake
Since you change your mind so often about this swap, I will once again mention that I know of a really nice orange and black 88 coupe that's already chopped up. If you want to put this swap in that car I bet the owner would let you, and even test and advertise it for you. Just an idea. Chances are, you'll end up putting one in it anyway someday. Please?
Well got a little done on the swap tonight. Test fit the setup for the first time and its of course its a tight fit. Pulled it back out to do a little metal modification on it and then will test fit it again. Took a few pictures and will post them later.
Is this not the same engine in the Impala and new Grand Prix? If so this should be a sweet and easier LS styole swap. What are the specs on this engine HP and TQ wise?
Bump for some more pics ? Also can you get a measurement for me? From the centerline of the driver side axle output to the top of the rear suspension link mount. I don't have a tripot to stick in there to check for clearance.
Bump for some more pics ? Also can you get a measurement for me? From the centerline of the driver side axle output to the top of the rear suspension link mount. I don't have a tripot to stick in there to check for clearance.
mine measured in at 3.5 inches.
The tripot would not be a problem if this is whare you are going to mount the trans. I had to notch the inside edge of the cradle in that location to get the engine far enough to the left, so that i had enough clearance on the right side between the shock tower and the top idler pulley. I had to notch about 3/4 inch out of the top edge of the suspension mount.
Well not much of a build Thread being I dont take alot of pictures and hardly post in the Thread. But here is a little update to the Thread to keep it alive and kicking. I now have the setup installed in the engine bay with only one clearance issue. That issue is with the pulley on the firewall pass side hitting the firewall just little but the issue is already figured out and will fix the issue when I pull the setup back out. I was able to use the stock Alt mount filpped upside down to install the Alt in the low mount postion with only a small clearance issue on the frame rail and another on the trunk area. All the clearance issues where taking care of by the use if a 5 lb sledge hammer and a little whopping on. Not much had to be clearanced and after repainting the area, you will not be able to tell. After getting the setup installed in the engine bay, I can see I didnt get the motor/trans mounted exactly perfect. It is off about 1/4 inch from one side of the engine bay to the other and looks like the battery side of the engine is tilted upward a little. It is somewhat noticable but nothing that is going to cause a problem with the install. Going to pull the setup out soon and start working on the axle setup and adding the suspension to it and then re-install it.
Well not much of a build Thread being I dont take alot of pictures and hardly post in the Thread. But here is a little update to the Thread to keep it alive and kicking. I now have the setup installed in the engine bay with only one clearance issue. That issue is with the pulley on the firewall pass side hitting the firewall just little but the issue is already figured out and will fix the issue when I pull the setup back out. I was able to use the stock Alt mount filpped upside down to install the Alt in the low mount postion with only a small clearance issue on the frame rail and another on the trunk area. All the clearance issues where taking care of by the use if a 5 lb sledge hammer and a little whopping on. Not much had to be clearanced and after repainting the area, you will not be able to tell. After getting the setup installed in the engine bay, I can see I didnt get the motor/trans mounted exactly perfect. It is off about 1/4 inch from one side of the engine bay to the other and looks like the battery side of the engine is tilted upward a little. It is somewhat noticable but nothing that is going to cause a problem with the install. Going to pull the setup out soon and start working on the axle setup and adding the suspension to it and then re-install it.
Can you post pics of the alt mount? I have an idea of where I can put it, but using the original mount is were the minds eye needs glasses. Thanks.
Originally posted by Rickady88GT: Can you post pics of the alt mount? I have an idea of where I can put it, but using the original mount is were the minds eye needs glasses. Thanks.
Here you go--There is only one bolt holding the stock mount on now but a pinch type setup will be used in the area where you can see the other bolt holes thru. It rest on the block and clears the exhaust manifold. I did have to clearance the area on the trunk a little to get it to clear and a small area on the frame rail but nothing major at all.
The mount is what you see minus a flat piece of steel that will work as a pinch type hold down. It will go in the triangle shaped hole where you can see the open bolt hole thru. With both places bolted down on the Alt bracket, it is solid as a rock. Using this setup makes it where you can not use a tensioner like Darth/Don did so I went another route. I thought about going the route Don did but figured I would give this a try first being I already had the Alt mount and the Alt.
Well work has been very slow on this project but I have gotten a few things worked out. The first time I mounted the motor/trans on the cradle I got in a hurry and once installed it was crooked. Measurement wise it wasn't bad but in pictures it looked like it was off by 3 foot. Here is the before:
So after pulling it back out, re-working the mounts I got the motor str8 but then it made it high on the crank side. I then had to re-work the mounts one more time to lower the engine down so it sits level and str8 in the engine bay. I re-installed it in the engine bay again last night and it looks pretty good all the way around. I found a smaller pulley to use on the WP housing to give me some extra clearance on the firewall. Here is what it looks like now:
I have the belt routing worked out and will be using a manual type tensioner for keeping the belt tight. This is not really the option I wanted to go with but with the way I did the low mount Alt, it was my only option. I looked at putting a tensioner in where the PS pump is but haven't found anything that would fit yet but I have only tried 2 options. I think manual type tensioner setup will work out fine and get the job done though.
Next it to start working on the axle setup and adding the suspension to the cradle to insure everything is lined up and looks good. The harness is being worked on now and hopefully it will be done before long. Really not a lot left to do on the swap and it could be almost complete if I would work on it more often.
All 3800SC's were discontinued by GM in 2008. The plant was closed and the LS4 was chosen to take its place. IMO this is a mistake as GM should have offered the two engines, not just the V8. I can only guess that since the LS4 uses active fuel management (VVT, cylinder shutdown) GM felt that the LS4 might provide the same mileage while providing more horsepower. I've never been fond of the AFM feature because in economy mode you have pistons bumping up and down in a few closed cylinders being cushioned by exhaust gases. The AFM feature could be removed but then your mileage goes down the drain. While the LS4 is a modern ,lightweight, compact and powerful engine; IMO these swaps will be a tight fit, be difficult to tune and get running correctly. However, I do like the fact that they are compact and were designed with the FWD bolt pattern that makes them compatible with just about any Fiero or later 4T65eHD trans. Good luck on the swap. Can't wait to hear the reports on how it performs.
------------------ 87GT - 3800SC Series III engine, 3.4" Pulley, N* TB, LS1 MAF, Flotech Exhaust Autolite 104's Custom CAI 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. 87GT - 3.4L Turbocharged engine, modified TH125H " I'M ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
Originally posted by Dennis LaGrua: While the LS4 is a modern ,lightweight, compact and powerful engine; IMO these swaps will be a tight fit, be difficult to tune and get running correctly. However, I do like the fact that they are compact and were designed with the FWD bolt pattern that makes them compatible with just about any Fiero or later 4T65eHD trans. Good luck on the swap. Can't wait to hear the reports on how it performs.
Might I offer up another opinion??
Tight fit maybe, but w/ the HP Tuner kit and Ryan's know-how...my car is running beyond correct!! Now that I've put about 1000 miles on the car since the 1st 1/4 run, I'm going back to see if I can break my 12.961 @ 105.53 mph. I just came back from Ryan's shop in Fort Wayne this weekend, and had him install a new exhaust (with muffler this time!) and it runs like nothing I've ever driven. A Shelby Mustang and Monte Carlo are both licking their wounds and prides when I pulled strongly AWAY from them from 80mph to 000mph and only when I thought they got the message, did I let them catch up. This car is a beast!! I can't wait till MustangBeware finishes his swap so someone else can attest to wonders of this LS4 swap. It is most definitely worth the money and time! I took my car to get aligned at a local pontiac shop two weeks ago, and after 45 minutes had passed I got suspicious and walked into the bay area and there were no less than 10 mechanics and salesmen oogling over the car...amazed that the LS4 could fit and blown away when they heard it magically start up ( I hit my auto start button!)
Tight fit maybe, but w/ the HP Tuner kit and Ryan's know-how...my car is running beyond correct!! Now that I've put about 1000 miles on the car since the 1st 1/4 run, I'm going back to see if I can break my 12.961 @ 105.53 mph. I just came back from Ryan's shop in Fort Wayne this weekend, and had him install a new exhaust (with muffler this time!) and it runs like nothing I've ever driven. A Shelby Mustang and Monte Carlo are both licking their wounds and prides when I pulled strongly AWAY from them from 80mph to 000mph and only when I thought they got the message, did I let them catch up. This car is a beast!! I can't wait till MustangBeware finishes his swap so someone else can attest to wonders of this LS4 swap. It is most definitely worth the money and time! I took my car to get aligned at a local pontiac shop two weeks ago, and after 45 minutes had passed I got suspicious and walked into the bay area and there were no less than 10 mechanics and salesmen oogling over the car...amazed that the LS4 could fit and blown away when they heard it magically start up ( I hit my auto start button!)
I'll second that opinion! I've been driving my ls4 swap around now for about 3 months, also tuned by ryan, and it runs absolutely great! The car is fast, reliable, gets good mileage, and has NO bad habits.
j/k . Make sure to take lots of pics and post them . I know there is already a few threads about this going on but the more the merrier . 
