Seems to work... holy hugeness... I resized it a little...
Fiero Finale's Time Slip
When I posted it last night I didn't realize how big the picture was...I still figured it would show that little picture icon where if you click on it it will show the picture. Oh well
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Originally posted by Blacktree:
UPDATED!
Kudos to Fiero Finale for having the cojones to drag race a duke-powered Fiero and post the timeslip. Hopefully, you had a lot of fun too.
Haha thanks! Yeah I had a blast even though my Fiero was slow.
What did you change to find another 11mph in the traps? Thats like, an extra 100whp over what don had!
""Mark,glad you let me know your purchase of my Aldino.You will find its a great car,if you tune it on a dyno for max horsepower that car will run the tens with the equipment its got.No other 3800SC with the M90 supercharger and no other power aids comes close to that car.I'll be happy to help you out with questions you have. Don ""
When Don was running those low 11 sec times he claimed was making only 320 rwhp and I thought 320rwhp would never be enough power to run low 11's and it had to be closer to 400whp, but sure enough the car made 315rwhp after I bought it and put it on a Dyno...
With some tuning and minor adjusting and a bigger fuel pump the car easily hit the 10's Don claimed the car was capable of.. The engine was starving for fuel in the top end so we fixed that hunger and were rewarded with more power in the top of each gear.. The car really has a perfect combination with the gearing and a long torque curve..
The believe the car is maxed out 100% with the current setup though and I don't want to run race gas.. I was contemplating the E85 thing for a while though
Edit: Here is a poor quality video from last spring getting the baselines on the dyno before tuning..
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[This message has been edited by Mr Ferrari (edited 05-13-2010).]
""Mark,glad you let me know your purchase of my Aldino.You will find its a great car,if you tune it on a dyno for max horsepower that car will run the tens with the equipment its got.No other 3800SC with the M90 supercharger and no other power aids comes close to that car.I'll be happy to help you out with questions you have. Don ""
When Don was running those low 11 sec times he claimed was making only 320 rwhp and I thought 320rwhp would never be enough power to run low 11's and it had to be closer to 400whp, but sure enough the car made 315rwhp after I bought it and put it on a Dyno...
With some tuning and minor adjusting and a bigger fuel pump the car easily hit the 10's Don claimed the car was capable of.. The engine was starving for fuel in the top end so we fixed that hunger and were rewarded with more power in the top of each gear.. The car really has a perfect combination with the gearing and a long torque curve..
The believe the car is maxed out 100% with the current setup though and I don't want to run race gas.. I was contemplating the E85 thing for a while though
Edit: Here is a poor quality video from last spring getting the baselines on the dyno before tuning..
I sent you a PM.....Nice trap speed and even a low 60' compared to Don used to run with it. With a better 60' you can get down into the mid 10s with ease.
I sent you a PM.....Nice trap speed and even a low 60' compared to Don used to run with it. With a better 60' you can get down into the mid 10s with ease.
I was getting a little tire slippage off the line and did get a couple 1.5 sec 60' s, but slower time and traps.. Most of the traps were 123-126 mph with 10.9 - 11.2 times..
I know it could be possible to shave a couple of tenths off of my time on a good day with a perfect launch and good traction..
As for the engine, The heads were custom built for Don and have bigger valves and some other work done.. The cam was custom ground and is realy nasty The whole fuel system has been obviously upgraded with injectors, pump, and has a boost-a-pump from Kenny Bell.. Has a MSD ignition system and a super small S/C pulley.. And the trany has a 3000 rpm stall with gears with posi traction The whole exhaust system is about 30 inches long and runs straight off the collector to a high flow cat and right out the back.. I am sure there are a few other magical bits here and there that Don did that I am unaware of, but thats the most of it..
Here it is..
In case you have not seen Don driving the car
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[This message has been edited by Mr Ferrari (edited 05-13-2010).]
Those numbers are not lining up correctly... Unless there is a big mod that is being hidden, like crazy compression, stroked block, fancy blower, etc... You are pretty much never going to run a 10 at 3100lbs with a m90. Its been tried, and tried, but it has never happened without dropping weight and running a much bigger cam/head package than don's car has. The horsepower numbers while are typically not a very good benchmark, they are well in line with typical power made by those setups.
Not doubting (ok maybe a little bit), just trying to figure it out so I can sleep better.
Honestly I don't know the weight of the car or what else has been done.. Don knew and assured me the setup was good for 10's and he is the one who really knows this engine.. We gained about 40hp with the tweeking, tuning, and adjusting and I did manage to run 10.9 @ 124 once last year (the only ten last year) with the exact setup I ran last week and did nothing else to the car.. The likely cause of my slight gain in time (0.1 sec) and trap speed (+3mph) is the car was nice and cool when I ran my best time last week and I trailered it there instead of driving like all the previous track runs where the car was hot at the start of racing.. The owner of a small but respectable performance shop called "APS" worked on my car.. He works on all the cars himself and he builds 700 - 800rwhp Supercharged and turbo charged Mustangs and built the new world record holding 800rwhp Porsche GT2 that trapped over 150mph in the 1/4 last week.. (Street car, no cage, stock body, full interior)
Around town here my car is actually slow.. There are some big dogs around here, but they are crazy and only like to start racing from a roll at 50 to 60mph.. ------------------
[This message has been edited by Mr Ferrari (edited 05-13-2010).]
i have a question i am building a 3800sc with ported and polished SC N* TB and full stack intercooler running a 2.6 pully i have 42.5 injectors and am wondering if they are ok i will not be raceing my car sorry to bust in on the thread but i am sure someone here will be able to answer my question PM me please
By all accounts, you are making well more than 420WHP to run those times... If you are indeed heavier than 3000lbs, then it is more than likely around 460whp. A friend of mine ran 10.7 in his basic weight fiero (never weighed it, but it was a typical 86gt with a automatic L67 swap), put down 465 on a mustang dyno, with more mods than you had listed for dons car and a 175 shot of nitrous.
The "magic tricks" that are in there apparently are hiding during dyno runs, and visual inspection as well.... I am not flaming or anything, I am just the guy that likes to find the smoke and mirrors behind any claimed magic show.
I don't know for sure what injectors are in there, but will try and look them up here.. Don was trapping up to 118 mph, but trapped 116 in his 11.323 run..
How does the math work out with Dons 320 rwhp and 11.3 sec 1/4 mile time and his highest traps of 118mph? I am just curious..
Don's words himself here.. Maybe he is hiding something.. """"" If you tune it on a dyno for max horsepower that car will run the tens with the equipment its got.No other 3800SC with the M90 supercharger and no other power aids comes close to that car. Don """"""
By all accounts, you are making well more than 420WHP to run those times... If you are indeed heavier than 3000lbs, then it is more than likely around 460whp. A friend of mine ran 10.7 in his basic weight fiero (never weighed it, but it was a typical 86gt with a automatic L67 swap), put down 465 on a mustang dyno, with more mods than you had listed for dons car and a 175 shot of nitrous.
The "magic tricks" that are in there apparently are hiding during dyno runs, and visual inspection as well.... I am not flaming or anything, I am just the guy that likes to find the smoke and mirrors behind any claimed magic show.
It was a 10 second car when Don owned it, but he never fixed the fuel problem and got back to the track.. Don stated his trap speeds were low due to running out of fuel in the top end.. If he didn't have fuel problems he would have easily hit 10's..
I dare anyone here to show me a picture of their Fiero doing this.. Anybody? ------------------
[This message has been edited by Mr Ferrari (edited 05-13-2010).]
Well it is final...DH has spoken and there is no way that what you have done could have happened. I mean he is the KING of the 3800 so what you say is a lie and made up.....Of course I am just kidding as everyone knows DH likes to pull shiz from his azz all the time. It is always nice to know that he has a friend that has done this and that....
Well it is final...DH has spoken and there is no way that what you have done could have happened. I mean he is the KING of the 3800 so what you say is a lie and made up.....Of course I am just kidding as everyone knows DH likes to pull shiz from his azz all the time. It is always nice to know that he has a friend that has done this and that....
Haha..
Who is Dark Horizon anyway? He is nothing to me.. I will smoke his Fiero like a cheap Mexican cigar.. ------------------
[This message has been edited by Mr Ferrari (edited 05-14-2010).]
The power numbers you found on the dyno, are VERY typical numbers for that setup. I am just saying that the times are VERY far from typical on that horsepower.
I have a good feeling that there are no tricks that are giving extra horsepower. The trans probably doesnt have any tricks in it either, other than possibly a locked converter? The GMR diff doesnt do anything to help...
To get those 1/4 numbers in my car, justins car, and a handful of my friends cars in the high 10s, it took at least middle 400whp, at less weight than your car.
My GTP put down a bit under 200whp more than you at 515 on a mustang dyno, and in a 3600lb car I struggled to run mid 11's at 123mph. (there, not my friends car!)
MPH = 234 (hp/weight).333 and ET = 5.825 (weight/hp).333 (It's actually raised to the 1/3 power but I can't get superscript to work. That is the same of course as the cubed root.)
Solving for a 3000 lb car and 320 HP = 12.282 ET @ 111.057 MPH
Please check my math I have been known to make mistakes.
------------------ Steve AT 88GTP DOT com 88 GT\3800 SC\4T65E-HD
[This message has been edited by Steve25 (edited 05-14-2010).]
The power numbers you found on the dyno, are VERY typical numbers for that setup. I am just saying that the times are VERY far from typical on that horsepower.
I have a good feeling that there are no tricks that are giving extra horsepower. The trans probably doesnt have any tricks in it either, other than possibly a locked converter? The GMR diff doesnt do anything to help...
To get those 1/4 numbers in my car, justins car, and a handful of my friends cars in the high 10s, it took at least middle 400whp, at less weight than your car.
My GTP put down a bit under 200whp more than you at 515 on a mustang dyno, and in a 3600lb car I struggled to run mid 11's at 123mph. (there, not my friends car!)
I am curious, Is anyone hitting 11.3 with the mods Don has done? Is anyone hitting 11.3 and trapping 118 mph in the 1/4 with 320 rwhp in a Fiero? I bet he made considerably less power than your car and it was still quicker.. I see you ran 11.6@120 and you should be in the low low 11's with that trap, What's the problem? The question is not "why am I so fast" but rather "why are you so slow"?
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[This message has been edited by Mr Ferrari (edited 05-14-2010).]
Originally posted by Mr Ferrari: I am curious, Is anyone hitting 11.3 with the mods Don has done? Is anyone hitting 11.3 and trapping 118 mph in the 1/4 with 320 rwhp in a Fiero? I bet he made considerably less power than your car and it was still quicker.. I see you ran 11.6@120 and you should be in the low low 11's with that trap, What's the problem? The question is not "why am I so fast" but rather "why are you so slow"?
Don had a pretty slick drag setup as well. good rear tires, narrow fronts, and, much more weight reduction just guessing on the weight reduction tho - but - I expect that is where alot is hiding. after all - we are looking at 0.3 seconds that is about 300 pounds
I made around 330 uncorrected at the wheels on a Mustang Dyno and ran 11.42 and have done 117.x MPH at 3050lbs, so I don't see Don's old times out of the question. His 60' was slightly better than mine ( I ran 1.54, I think he ran 1.4x). Also my ZZP convertor was slipping 11% through the traps, so My MPH probably sufffered. Add 40 HP to that and 10's are definately possible, especially if the Aldino weighs under 3000lbs with some weight reduction, and a better convertor will definitely increase MPH. I have never removed any weight from my car at the track. I run it how I run it on the street. I have never even taken out the passenger seat. I could pretty easily be down to around 2800 lbs at the track if I really wanted to.
Anyway, this could probably be moved to another thread, this list is too good to screw up. If DH wants to continue the arguement, mabey he should start a new thread.
Edit: I guess I missed that he was claiming 128 mph... I believe the time is possible with a M90, as Zooomers car has run into the tens at around 3000 lbs. But I don't think anybody is going to make 128mph with an M90 only without huge weight reduction. However in this case it looks like the owner "Mr. Ferrari" is a complete BS artist, too bad, as I was hoping someone would run tens M90 powered. I am hoping to do so, maybe even later this year... ------------------ 11.425 @115.60 Best 60' 1.543 seconds 3800 S/C 4T65E
[This message has been edited by LFiero67 (edited 05-14-2010).]
I am not trying to make drama... Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.
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I am curious, Is anyone hitting 11.3 with the mods Don has done? Is anyone hitting 11.3 and trapping 118 mph in the 1/4 with 320 rwhp in a Fiero? I bet he made considerably less power than your car and it was still quicker.. I see you ran 11.6@120 and you should be in the low low 11's with that trap, What's the problem? The question is not "why am I so fast" but rather "why are you so slow"?
Not really anyone is in that range. With 360whp or so, a few have done the 11.3 thing with a solid launch, or a moderate launch and a solid backend, full weight fieros. High 300whp FWD's in the 3000-3100lb range are also in that low 11 at 120 range with solid launches.
I know how fast my car is, the only reason I had issues with those times in my signature are because of my brakes (recently fixed), causing me to get 1.9+ 60fts. I have only made a small amount of passes at the track with my car.
Right now I am in the range of trapping 127, but this is on 21psi of boost, and 420-440whp (or more). I made about 285-290whp with my nitrous setup, which went a whopping 12 flat with a mild launch... I dont see an extra 20-30whp pushing me into the low 11s, and I knew my transmission setup was VERY efficient back then as well. (tight converter, good launches, no slipping).
Running the times you did with that setup, is breaking every law of physics here mathematically. Like I said before, I really do not see you making any more power than any other similarly setup car. 340-350whp out of a setup as mild as don's is very respectable, but it does not mean you are the first 3000+ car to run a 10 with a m90.. There have been a few 400+whp setups that struggled to get there at 2700lbs...a few m90+nitrous setups that struggled to run high 10s as well.
I can't delete my posts so you can ask to have them deleted..
I apologize for the garbage that was brought into the thread.. I was just posting my new time slip..
My wife, my best friend, my daughter, and a group of guys with cars from a local car club were there with me.. So don't make me have to get my wife all up in here after you Mr Horizon
I am a good spirited guy and am not upset in any way about the questions Dark, but I don't know what else to say about the cars performance.. I think the long torque curve and gearing is the magical combination.. At 70mph on the freeway the engine is at 2,300 rpm.. It has potential gearing to hit 210+mph so it's not geared real low..
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[This message has been edited by Mr Ferrari (edited 05-14-2010).]
Sorry for posting this in your thread blacktree, but I felt it needed to be here. Could you also remove that time from the list? ------------------ '88 GT- 3800 Turbo 11.367@121.03mph gmtuners.com -Build info
[This message has been edited by AkursedX (edited 05-14-2010).]
Ouch. When will people learn that the internet is a very small world for being so big. A+ for effort, Mr. Ferrari.
F- for using a timeslip that had a video of a different car making the run.
Good call on the drama, DH.
------------------ My Web page | The Turbo Super Duty Build. You know that little voice that says it can't be done? I duct-taped its mouth shut and pushed it down a flight of stairs. (Leader of the Insurgency)
[This message has been edited by FastIndyFiero (edited 05-14-2010).]
Why is it that the strip owners cant print out what car was running in each of the lanes. On the videos people take you can hear the announcer stating what car is in each lane. We dont have very many drag strips here in the uk.
LOL, i can't believe anyone actually believed it... An M90 car weighing over 3000lbs, WILL NOT TRAP 127. Its not rocket science, it doesn't happen. Can you go 10's at 3000lbs, sure, but not at 127 mph. It was just quite obvious that didn't happen. My car weighs in at exactly 3000lbs race weight, made 386whp on a mustang dyno (and had a couple more mods than that, so prolly making ~395whp when i went to the track), and went 11.2 @ 124 with essentially the same 60'. It was quite obvious that this didn't happen M90 only, especially at the weight and power levels he was claiming.
------------------ 1999 Grand Prix GT 258,300+ miles. XPZ, Heads, Pacesetters, S2 IC, Gen V, N* tb, UD pulleys, 160tstat, tune, etc... 11.247 @ 124.06 w/1.66 60', 386.1whp on E85.
