I have been laid up for a few days but the project is still in full swing. Rich has the second mold damn near perfect and the first ready for another trial in the hot sucky machine. I am not able to get around on my own for a couple weeks but I am going to have arangments made to get the mold to the plastic guys for another quick run. I asked rich to send me some pictures as soon as he ca. Maybe thursday afternoon I will be able to post the finished /almost finished molds. In about a week I should have a few pulls and after that if all goes well we may just start making some damn windows. I'm rather stuck as I can not transport myself around due to a head injury but I will get what can be done over the phone or through people helping me. I hope I get some pictures thursday cause I'm bored to death.
From looking it over it seems your goal is great fitting and stock looking sail panels and you seem to be heading in the right direction.
My question is would you be able/willing to do them with say a black or red plastic which won't need the dot matrix graphics?
My thought is it would be a way to sell more at a somewhat cheaper price, hopefully, for those of us that want to do something custom with the sail panel as opposed to a stock panel.
Steve
------------------ Where will the road take you today?
pokey... did I miss the part about what you will be doing with the dot matrix printing?
The printer has taken a photo of the stock GT panel and digitized it with the curve in mind. We have not decided what will be the better to do. Either a computer generated image that will be skewed intentionally will go on the panel pre-form or a pad with the end print will be made and applied after form like the original. Either way there is an option that we just have not tested so we don't know what will be easier yet.
Everything is in the computer so it is all about application now. Oh and money. Everything is money.
For the 30 plus years I was in the graphics industry, screen printing Lexan and Plexiglas before forming it was the only way to go. Simply because you needed a flat sheet to print. That was prior to the development of pad printing. Pad printing is ideal for printing in small, recessed areas, uneven surfaces, or areas otherwise oddly shaped. Though it would take one humongous pad to print a quarterwindow panel, it's an ideal process for getting into the curl at the front of the window, and for printing on the double-curved surface of the window.
However, there are a number of water based, solvent based, and Ultra Violet cured screen printing inks that are ideal for Plexiglas printing, and lend themselves to forming after print. Some of those may not be available in California, especially the solvent based inks.
I've examined one set of aftermarket windows, and it appeared that they may have been curved at the front prior to printing. It appeared that the matrix was printed, and a small portion of the black background was printed along with the matrix. Then the remainder of the black, including into the curved area, was possibly sprayed on. There was a definite demarkation between a satin finish and a flat finish coating, as if they printed the matrix and about 4 inches of the black background with a satin finish ink, then sprayed the rest of the front with flat finish paint.
Though it may be a little more expensive for a large pad printer, Pokey will get a superior product and that's what he's wanting to produce and we're wsanting to buy.
Yes that is an option. We're going to test a couple different ways. First to consider will be quality before cost so what we do will be because it comes out the best. I'm half back on track now. I feel fine but because of the seizure they have revoked my license. This makes it very hard to get anything done.
The team test fitting them to the car and marking up areas needing attention.
At far left is Oz from the vacuum forming company, the guy leaning over the decklid is Rick who made the molds, at rear is Andrew (pokey), and to the far right is Richard (owner of the GT). I took the pic.
***transferred from the Mall thread***
[This message has been edited by Toddster (edited 08-24-2008).]
We have some pics but there is some trouble with the shop computer so maybe Tuesday on the pics. Oh they are very smooth. The test panels ought to be very nice indeed.
Here is a pic of the mold during polishing. Rich made a neat little form fitting polishing tool. In the background you can see the other one already shiny and polished. Very smooth. Both are on there way to Fremont to get a few panels pulled for final approval. Everything except the print pad is in place or getting in place right now. Prices of plastic may drop dramatically so that's one plus for so many delays.
Do to somer unforeseen medical problems and just bad business lately I have run into some liquid financial problems but actually it may have been for the best. I am hoping Oil drops under a 100 a barrel and stays there so we can buy materials cheaper. If we would have stuck with the original schedule the price of materials would really have killed any idea of economical panels.
As soon as we get a panel pulled I will get more pics. I am going to try and be there when they are pulled so as to get pictures in action. A set of pics while these are being done on the hot sucky machine would be really great.
Video of the hot sucky machine would be even better.
Yes I am going to get some video. I don't have a camera but my brother in law is going to lend me his.
Both molds are ready and I am just waiting for time on the hot sucky machine to do about 5 pulls. I am going to pull one with both molds to see if we can do 2 at a time. That would be great.
If these turn out perfect we can start production. Really there is no reason they won't. The molds are as perfect as we can get them. So only three things are a problem right now in my mind. 1. consistent printing 2. Trimming program works well. It is untested on these next pulls. 3. Cost for initial start up for materials and labor. one problem at a time has been how this has gone and so far every problem had a solution. Really there is not a lot left as far as problems. I am just so anxious being so close it is driving me bonkers.
[This message has been edited by pokeyfiero (edited 10-01-2008).]
Thanks for sharing the process, very neat! Most of all though, thanks for not screwing over people by taking their money yet. Hats off to you, and I hope you make more than all your money back, when these are done.
I've expressed interest in the past, but if made in China, I'll pass. If made in USA, consider them sold!
------------------ '88 Fiero GT - garage ornament '96 Talon TSi AWD - 11.9 @ 116, sorta broke again '90 Camaro IROC-Z twin-turbo - sorta broke again '85 Kawi 750 Turbo - sorta broke still '95 Kawi GPZ1100 - 10 second daily driver, heh
How are these windows coming along.... I just finish an engine swap and in the process you notice a lot.
Great job on the windows by the way and I would love a set --- Is the GT logo available too including the dot matrix? Let us know when we can give you some money for the product.
Maybe will be able to post pics of the final test panels in December.
Rich white had a little set back. Cancer is a ***** . The operation went well but the Chemo is killing the poor guy. HIs health and money has put a bit of a delay on things but I will get pics and maybe video of everything we do.
okay, that's cool. no worries.... I've had my share of cancer in my family. I KNOW!
Tell that guy to stay healthy, eat healthy and keep it down. "Juice" and drink the ensure like it was a shot of something good...... STAY POSITIVE AND FIGHT! """""Stay clear of anyone with a cold"""" try to exercise and go for walks.
when I flaked a litttle piece and burned it ,smelled like wood??? strange. also any body have pics. of the backs of org. 1987 Mera sails?? please hit me back.
[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 09-10-2009).]
Maybe will be able to post pics of the final test panels in December.
Rich white had a little set back. Cancer is a ***** . The operation went well but the Chemo is killing the poor guy. HIs health and money has put a bit of a delay on things but I will get pics and maybe video of everything we do.
Pokey, not to be rude or negitive but if the guy passes away does this mean this project is scrapped??
Pokey, not to be rude or negitive but if the guy passes away does this mean this project is scrapped??
Well things are not well at all. Rich is not able continue with the project.
I have other business interests that consume my energies but the project is not scrapped. As a matter of fact there are several options.
Chris West(West Coast Fiero's) is a friend of mine and has offered to help out. He didn't ask for anything in return he just wants to help out the Fiero community. I had almost shipped him the molds a couple months back but then Rich took a turn for the worst and other business hit so I never sent them to him. Chris has access to a plastic shop that will run the test panels for cheap or free so this is an option i may still do so long as Chris is still willing.
The other option is I enlist the help of another company out here that is local. Rapid accuform is a good solid company and has expressed an interest in taking on the manufacturing side of the project. THey are high tech run outfit and know how to use the data we have to make things right as far as trimming and edging goes. He has a fair amount of experience solving problems like heat bubbles. Heat bubbles have been an issue that has not been solved completely. I won't go into production with a loss ratio over 1%.
The third and craziest option is to do them myself. I have obtained a full size vacuum molding machine. I have no experience with one and have no idea where to start. I need to bring in a third line as the equipment operates in 3 phase power.
Chris West is probably the best option. He has a lot of experience making things from nothing and devotes his life to creating.
Rapid accuform is my second choice as they are close to me and I remain in control of every facet. Being I am a control freak when it comes to my projects this appeals to me.
Doing it myself with equipment I don't know how to use and have not the facilities ready to use it in. Something must be seriously wrong with me because this excites me to no end. This is undoubtedly thee most expensive way for me to produce these. I can't imagine how many sheets of extremely expensive material I will destroy learning what not to do. Even if I become the worlds foremost leader on things not to do with plastic I still may not know the things I should do. This is a bad idea for sure.
Keep us informed on your decisions Pokey.. We are still here with holes in our pocket... Tehachapi is only a couple hours away from me.. So if you decide to venture in that direction is cool too.
Holy crap if you had 2 more mold pairs you pull 6 sets at a time on that thing! That has to be one of the biggest hot sucky machines I have ever seen!
If I had more molds! No way man. Those damn things are too hard to make and cost too much. Would be nice but no way .
I have another one also. I have to unload this one first though so I can go get it. The other one is a 4x4 unit. I assume it works under the same heaters. Just one side maybe.
I was thinking we could make one whole GT back end with this thing. Or Whole front ends could be made.
Pokey, just a thought....if you decide to proceed on your own, you may want to consider renting a diesel power generator instead of adding the extra circuit to your shop. I only suggest this since you probably wouldn't run the machine very often and it may make more sense economically vs. the cost of installing the 3 phase equipment, wiring, electrician, permits, etc..... Aggreko is a national heavy equipment rental company who may be able to help you out.
From my perspective, I would probably go with the local (ACCUFORM) shop if quality control is your driver. It's awfully hard to oversee such a critical process when you can't be there quickly and as problems arise!
PS: I'm sorry to hear of Rich's health problems. We will keep him in our thoughts and prayers.
Also, there are still alot of us out here pulling for you! After all the blood, sweat, time, and money you have invested, I can't see buying a set of sails anywhere else (just wouldn't do it.........wouldn't be prudent).
[This message has been edited by timcha (edited 03-16-2010).]
Pokey, just a thought....if you decide to proceed on your own, you may want to consider renting a diesel power generator instead of adding the extra circuit to your shop. I only suggest this since you probably wouldn't run the machine very often and it may make more sense economically vs. the cost of installing the 3 phase equipment, wiring, electrician, permits, etc..... Aggreko is a national heavy equipment rental company who may be able to help you out.
From my perspective, I would probably go with the local (ACCUFORM) shop if quality control is your driver. It's awfully hard to oversee such a critical process when you can't be there quickly and as problems arise!
PS: I'm sorry to hear of Rich's health problems. We will keep him in our thoughts and prayers.
Also, there are still alot of us out here pulling for you! After all the blood, sweat, time, and money you have invested, I can't see buying a set of sails anywhere else (just wouldn't do it.........wouldn't be prudent).
A generator is the way to go. Great idea. I am going to let Rapidaccuform try and turn out a few test panels next week just so I have some firmer info to go on. If I can't see myself handling this production I will see if Chris will still be willing to help out. If anyone has experience on these machines I would very much like to hear from you. Also if anyone has a project in mind I wouldn't object to letting someone use the machine at their expence.
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