The plant is still there! I had a job interview in Dearborn, and the plant was on the way back, so...
(Yes wrong car again)
Also: The gate at the side entrance was open! They were actually doing something there today! Some newer cars were parked in there. I thought I saw a guy in the booth so I didn't stay long enough to find out.
bump. So if I understand it correctly, one of the reasons the bean counters shut down the Fiero program was due to underutilization of the plant yet it has sat dormant since 88? Or was something else manufactured there? Hard to believe since the Fiero signs remained up for so long.
Here's my pictures from when my Dad and I visited in 2008 for the 25th show.
You can barely make out his Fiero in the corner of this one.
Weird junk in the gated lot beside the building.
More "junk." It appeared to be primered Silverado HD beds, and a lot of them. Odd.
After 24 years, it made the trip from Oregon back to it's birthplace some 248,000 miles later!
At the time, I heard from several knowledgeable people that plant 17 was mostly being used by GM as storage, and was not of much significance anymore. There was almost no one around when we visited. The one person we talked to was at some kind of security station, and he seemed somewhat interested that people would bring their Fiero back to the plant.
Better to take this one out before it ends up like the old Packard plant full of Homeless and Drug Addicts.
LOL I've been in there a couple times - saw a brand-new minivan in there, completely stripped of parts, and later, upon going back outside, saw a couple people's cars in the process of being "pilfered". Not the best of neighborhoods.
While at the 25th, I took a pic of my blue fiero in front of the plant... I figured the plant wouldn't be around forever and it was probably one of my few chances to do so:
Could someone refresh my memory, is plant #17 where the Fiero was actually assembled and made, or was this plant only partially responsible for the Fiero, or was there other plants like this also that made the Fiero? I seem to remember something about one in California, maybe? I would also love to get a brick from this building! Thanks! Jim
Originally posted by beachbomb: Could someone refresh my memory, is plant #17 where the Fiero was actually assembled and made, or was this plant only partially responsible for the Fiero, or was there other plants like this also that made the Fiero? I seem to remember something about one in California, maybe? I would also love to get a brick from this building! Thanks! Jim
Yes, Plant #17 is where all of the Fieros were produced. This plant is located in aptly titled Pontiac, Michigan. This was the only plant that was responsible for Fiero production.
Upon completion of the Fiero, the plant "shut down" and no longer produced cars.
The Pontiac complex there really has a lot of history even more so than the Fiero. This large complex built many of the great GM models over the years.
I wish I had it scanned but in the early 90's got a picture of my car in front of the plant sign when it still said Fiero. I also parked in the middle of the street under the bridge to get a photo of the Fiero emblem sign on the bridge and my car.
I wonder if there is anyone here that went to the first Fiero meet there back in the 80's. During the plant shut down in July they let the people who attended drive their cars down the last half of the Fiero production line. It was claimed the first time any car ever went down the line twice. I think they only had 20-30 cars there. I missed it by a few years.
I love the wealth of knowledge that this group shares. It's so interesting to learn about the history of this car. Thanks for the awesome pictures, videos, and other links everyone!
Also, ManMadeChickens, we totally cruised to the 25th together with you guys. I was with Sadie Goad and her father in the Red 88 GT and Yellow 88 Base =). Every time we talk about the show, the first thing that comes to mind is when you pulled up next to us and held up the "25th Show?" (or whatever it said =P) sign. The sense of community here is second to none, and I cannot wait until I can finally afford to have my own Fiero!
I love the wealth of knowledge that this group shares. It's so interesting to learn about the history of this car. Thanks for the awesome pictures, videos, and other links everyone!
Also, ManMadeChickens, we totally cruised to the 25th together with you guys. I was with Sadie Goad and her father in the Red 88 GT and Yellow 88 Base =). Every time we talk about the show, the first thing that comes to mind is when you pulled up next to us and held up the "25th Show?" (or whatever it said =P) sign. The sense of community here is second to none, and I cannot wait until I can finally afford to have my own Fiero!
Yep! That was a really fun moment for my Dad and I as well. We had driven all the way from Oregon, and had yet to see another Fiero on the highway... until we came up on the two in your group.
It was fun meeting you that way, and I'm glad we got to share some of the same experiences that weekend.
The 1990 Prototype assembly, by the Plant #17 crew.
Can someone post the pictures of the 3 Grey Prototypes Fieros that were sitting in a storage lot? The reason I ask, is because those three prototypes have alot in common with the 1990 Proto in the video above, but some of the body parts are different. Simularities are the rear deck lids, headlights, etc. I just found it a little odd that these three grey protos and the 1990 share alot in common. I have these photos but can't post them. If someone can post them for me, I can email them to you. Thanks. Jim P.S. Is it me or do these 3 Grey Protos look like they are stored at plant #17?
Can someone post the pictures of the 3 Grey Prototypes Fieros that were sitting in a storage lot? The reason I ask, is because those three prototypes have alot in common with the 1990 Proto in the video above, but some of the body parts are different. Simularities are the rear deck lids, headlights, etc. I just found it a little odd that these three grey protos and the 1990 share alot in common. I have these photos but can't post them. If someone can post them for me, I can email them to you. Thanks. Jim P.S. Is it me or do these 3 Grey Protos look like they are stored at plant #17?
Most of the people on here have seen the photos of the fastback prototype and some of the few notchback prototypes. The notchbacks were destroyed before they even hit the public sector. First, here are the few pictures of the notchback:
Here is a blown up shot of the first picture. There appears to be a Grand Am in this shot with the 2000 up to recent final production taillights. My question is, were these notchbacks truly destroyed in the early 90's based on the fact that there is a very modern car in the picture or are they really tucked away somewhere? I doubt that they designed the Grand Am prototype in 1989 11 years in advance with the 2000-2010 taillights, otherwise they would have just used those lights from 89 on up. Just another conspiracy question
Edit to add....I know one of the members on here knows the person that took these photos. I just cannot find the info. Hopefully he can shed a little light on the timeframe of when these photos were taken.
The reason I ask, is because those three prototypes have alot in common with the 1990 Proto in the video above, but some of the body parts are different.
As discussed in the video, the only parts common to both the base and GT were going to be the hood and the roof, all other panels would be specific to whichever model. But yes those would have been the 90 model coupes.
Also in the video, 16:24, check out the one guy asleep in the chair
As discussed in the video, the only parts common to both the base and GT were going to be the hood and the roof, all other panels would be specific to whichever model. But yes those would have been the 90 model coupes.
Also in the video, 16:24, check out the one guy asleep in the chair
Those are the pics I was talking about. I actually contacted a GM employee several years ago about these cars, after much frustration I might add, he also stated they were destroyed, but said they were the 1989 Proto's, the coupe, formula and GT. So if these grey proto's were 1990's, do you think there would have been that much of a difference between the coupes and the GT? It's looks like the coupes were mostly 1988 leftovers with a few new parts, and the 1990 GT was completely new car. I did catch that comment about the only two parts that were interchangable, but didn't think it would be that big of a difference between the different models. Thanks for posting the photos RWDPLZ.
Those are the pics I was talking about. I actually contacted a GM employee several years ago about these cars, after much frustration I might add, he also stated they were destroyed, but said they were the 1989 Proto's, the coupe, formula and GT. So if these grey proto's were 1990's, do you think there would have been that much of a difference between the coupes and the GT? It's looks like the coupes were mostly 1988 leftovers with a few new parts, and the 1990 GT was completely new car. I did catch that comment about the only two parts that were interchangable, but didn't think it would be that big of a difference between the different models. Thanks for posting the photos RWDPLZ.
My GM people have told me that these were the coupes for 1990. They were planned to have a Quad 4 engine in them. The B pillar was also tinted see through plastic similar to the GT. Note these cars were originally 1989 models but were pushed back. I have the engineering drawing of the coupe nose emblem from the mid 80's and it stated 1990 model.
With the bodies off the cars really were not too different from the 1988 models. THey would have two different bodies with only a few shared parts. The GT may have had longer control arms as it really has a wider track and body flairs when the coupes look similar to the 88 Formula.
As for the interior the 90 GT had a dash gauge cluster that was for the most nearly identical to the 4th gen Firebird/TA. When the FIero was canceled they spared the cluster and much of the styling to be used in the 4th gen F body that replaced the GM 80 FWD that they were doing. The interesting part is with the death of the GM 80 Fbody replacment it was what pretty much sealed the FIero's fate. The GM 80 was a FWD space frame F body replacment that would have shared the line with the FIero. Once this car was cancled it left the Fiero in a plant that was way under capacity at a time GM was tight on money. They had little options to move another line there soon. So the death and design of the 90 Fiero contributed much to the 4th Gen F body.
Here is a profile of the 1990 GT and the 4th gen Camaro. John Schinella the Fiero designer told us the design was too good to throw away and adapted it to the 4th Gen F body.
There is a handful off us [Fred] here that really need to get together and put together a good book on this car. Too much information I am affraid will be lost and too much internet myths will take their place.
The new Fiero was not going to be a major change. For the most it was evolutional. It was getting the car to where they really wanted it to start with. They were finally getting the engines and suspensions they originally wanted and just were updating the body and interior. The space frame would have has some changes but most had to do with the new body panels.
GM was trying to make a greater difference in the GT and Coupe but they still at the base would still have a very similar base.
I have the 1990 GT emblem and Coupe Emblem. Even here the parts are the same shape and have similar mount pins but they have two differnet Peguses horses and two different scripts.
Here is the GT emblem and it show the departure from the past and even the coupe emblem below.
If you look at the photos above the coupes have this emblems on them. They did vary the color and I think they are white letter on these cars.
It is best to know that the cars on the lot are not in final form. There is some trim and other things that could have changed. I would think they were close though.
Here are some GM 80 photo's This car was planned for the Pontiac plant. Once it was killed it left the Fiero without another model to share the plant and production capacity.
Pontiac sold it's soul to built the Fiero and built as many as they could till they could get the GM 80 into the plant. It was a risk that came back to bite them. Add in the many other issues the low volume in such a high capacity plant was the final nail in the coffin.
There also was a GTO concept based on this car. It was only a concept and only shown once after the RWD 4th gen was already under way. It shared the same nose as the 4th Gen Formula Firebird.
The GM 80 has almost become myth as few people ever saw it or even heard of it and it's story. That is sad as it effect the future for the Fiero and the F body. Some say the GTO concpet is at the tech center yet today whole others say it was crushed. Who knows it may show up someday at the heritage center. They don't have all of GM lost cars yet.
Thanks for sharing that Hyper. Nothing better than good ole '90 Fiero history/stories.
PS: Do you still have your HHR SS? I sold my 09 last month. Such a good little wagon...
------------------ 88 GT 5-Speed...5200 original miles 88 GT Auto...44,000 miles, gold wheels 87 GT 5-Speed, Blue...18,000 original miles 87 GT 5-Speed...55,000 original miles
Thanks for sharing that Hyper. Nothing better than good ole '90 Fiero history/stories.
PS: Do you still have your HHR SS? I sold my 09 last month. Such a good little wagon...
Yes I do. This is car I never though you would see me in and today just flat love to drive it. I just changed the tires over for winter.
I hope you got a good price. The used ones here since they stopped building them had gone up. Several dealers here were asking just $2K less than I paid new for my 08's. We now have three of us with SS at work now. I walked out and almost went to the wrong one the other day. LOL!
I feel it is important to pass these stories around from time to time as people here come and go and those of us who are either smart to stay or too dumb to leave need to share what we have learned. That is why I would love to get Fred, Paul and a few others who have a lot of this info and set the story straight. I find the Fiero story as a good snap shot of what was wrong and right at GM and would be a good story for even a non Fiero owner. The in house fighting shows that GM was their own worst enemy.
Thanks Hyperv6 for all the info. I had heard bits and pieces of the stories, but not as good as your information. I really appreciate it, look forward to the possible book! It's a shame that these protos are gone, it would be great if Pontiac would have put all these protos into a museum or something, they already spent the money making them...people would have loved to go and see them in a museum or something. The comparison between the 1990 proto GT and the Camaro is amazing. I truely believe the 1990 GT would have had great sales, they really should have kept making them, but we can't change the past!
Does anyone know where some of the fiero prototypes went when GM sold off alot of the cars? Like the convertible, turbo, etc. Also, did GM keep the 1990 GT (red)?
Thanks again, you guys are great!!
P.S. I think I just hit 1000 posts!! Yea me!!! Only took several years!!!!!
Thanks Hyperv6 for all the info. I had heard bits and pieces of the stories, but not as good as your information. I really appreciate it, look forward to the possible book! It's a shame that these protos are gone, it would be great if Pontiac would have put all these protos into a museum or something, they already spent the money making them...people would have loved to go and see them in a museum or something. The comparison between the 1990 proto GT and the Camaro is amazing. I truely believe the 1990 GT would have had great sales, they really should have kept making them, but we can't change the past!
Does anyone know where some of the fiero prototypes went when GM sold off alot of the cars? Like the convertible, turbo, etc. Also, did GM keep the 1990 GT (red)?
Thanks again, you guys are great!!
P.S. I think I just hit 1000 posts!! Yea me!!! Only took several years!!!!!
Jim
GM is keeping the 1990.
The other cars went to several private owners some who are on this web site. A couple went to Canada too.
It is a shame they did crush the cars but they were not finished cars in final form. Also GM can't keep everything and giving them away is not an easy task in this day and age of liabilities. I do give GM credit as they have sold off more cars than they ever did in the past and are doing what they can to preserve the cars. The money GM made on the sale of many of their collection cars was a drop in the bucket and was more aimed at saving the cars and saving money as it take more money to store them than anything.
I am not sure how the new car would have done. 2 seat cars are a limited market and GM flooded the market with Fiero's. GM was only expecting sales to remain around 30,000 units per year as with the other car in the plant there was no need to sell as many. Most 2 seaters of this era did not live on much longer than the Fiero. The only two 2 seat car in this country that have any kind of long life is the Vette and Miata. They are not the norm for this class of car.
The design going to the Camaro I would say increased sales there since the car has a wider more practical appeal. The Camaro even as limited use as it is still is a car most people can live with as a daily driver or single car. Few 2 seaters are a primary car and it effects sales.
I had one of my GM friends tell me that most 2 seat cars are a 8 year average cycle. Some a few years more some a few less. I suspect if the Fiero has lived it would have seen 4-5 years in a second gen and then would have gone away after that. Times were hard on sports cars a few years after the FIero with the death of the MR2 twice, the 300 Z and the RX7. The Vette sales even has plunged a couple years in the last 20 years. Last year I think they only sold 12,000 Vettes. Many are waiting on the new C7 and the Economy is also a big issue.
I wouldn't say I did great on the resale of the SS. It only had 6000km (4000 miles) on it and I took a bit of a bath getting out. The car is an unsung performance bargain, but up here anyways, nearly saleproof. I have bought and sold tons of sporty cars, and the HHR was one of the hardest to sell. Seemed to me that people that wanted an HHR didn't want to go fast, and people that wanted to go fast didn't want an HHR. Either way, It was a great little rocket. Mine even had the AA5 half panel option. Good memories.
With regards to the '90 prototype, I bet one of these years it shows up at Barrett-Jackson. It's only a matter of time before GM lets 'er go to auction like the other ones...
I wouldn't say I did great on the resale of the SS. It only had 6000km (4000 miles) on it and I took a bit of a bath getting out. The car is an unsung performance bargain, but up here anyways, nearly saleproof. I have bought and sold tons of sporty cars, and the HHR was one of the hardest to sell. Seemed to me that people that wanted an HHR didn't want to go fast, and people that wanted to go fast didn't want an HHR. Either way, It was a great little rocket. Mine even had the AA5 half panel option. Good memories.
With regards to the '90 prototype, I bet one of these years it shows up at Barrett-Jackson. It's only a matter of time before GM lets 'er go to auction like the other ones...
The HHR SS is a car people have to really drive to understand. I was not an HHR fan but after driving one I found out the glory of the LNF Ecotec. I have the Turbo upgrade on mine and I will tell you it is great having a little car that will do 13 sec runs and still see 32 MPG on the highway. The real seceret is the suspension tuning. I wish my Fiero was as well tuned from the factory as the SS is. The guys at GM Perfromance Division really know their stuff. The neat thing is they are now doing all the suspension work and not just fixing the older cars. The new Cruze in standard form is a good handling and riding car. I can't wait till they tune it up more for a performance model on the new Delta.
The 90 should be safe as GM has stated it was not going anywhere just as the first one built. GM has to pick the cars the best repesented the work of the Fiero and the cars they have now represent this. The cars they sold off are neat and great cars but for the most were just show cars and had little to do with production.
It is like a lot of the Vettes they have sold off. Many were neat show cars and test cars but really had little historic value to GM. GM knows there will be more cars to add to this collection and they have to use care in what they chose to keep and sell. They want the landmark cars to remain. There were many show cars over the years but the ones most remember GM still has. While others were neat they are forgotten by most.
A good example is the FIero FIrebird of 1968. It was a Concept car built on a production chassis. It was a FIrebird with a Aero package hence the name FI-ERO. Most people today have no idea of this and only a few pictures remain of the car in the two forms it was shown in.
I just hope GM can get the Herritage collection into a larger building and set it up so more people can see it. There are still many more cars hid all around GM and the tech center that have not been seen in years.
The 1990 Prototype assembly, by the Plant #17 crew.
Does anyone know how (or if) I can download this? I would really like to have this for my collection of videos..... My YouTube extension for Google Chrome does not work. I tried another downloader that said it would work for a Google video but did not.
Does anyone know how (or if) I can download this? I would really like to have this for my collection of videos..... My YouTube extension for Google Chrome does not work. I tried another downloader that said it would work for a Google video but did not.
Thanks.
Download helper works...
Back in the prehistoric early 2000s I actually bought this on VHS tape. Oh well I'm downloading it now as we speak for posterity.
Or was something else manufactured there? Hard to believe since the Fiero signs remained up for so long.
I don't see any copyright on them and they are in the public domain.
