Dog out your piano wire lets get that front window out!
DOH !! 5 minutes too late! If I only had the right phone # lol. Well Rob make a plan and we'll get to cutting. I'm free all day Friday, I'll bring my sawsall. Let me know. If that works for you maybe you can check to see if anyone else would want to come out and help
DOH !! 5 minutes too late! If I only had the right phone # lol. Well Rob make a plan and we'll get to cutting. I'm free all day Friday, I'll bring my sawsall. Let me know. If that works for you maybe you can check to see if anyone else would want to come out and help
Um ya I need a new windshield doh! dang it its thundering no no no no no no damn it I dont need rain right now!!!!!!!!! I will try and take a half day friday I was looking over Archies directions and pics and well dosent look too much diffrent than how u did yours but I did notice he has wood templates for the door openingd top to tbe b pillar and those dont come with the kit only the back window form. I need a windshield!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sell me yours and then ill get one from gibbys at a later date outa a 88 im poor! bring your sawzall friday I have one but it constantly looses the blades I think its getting wore out I have cut off wheels too and plenty of weld wire tomorrow since its raining prob ill make the braces for inside the car and weld them in. I have some tube at work yet I might bring home to make a cross brace as well.
[This message has been edited by jetsnvettes2000 (edited 04-27-2011).]
OK, i have an issue. My 85 has started to drip oil and water since my little trip to Wisconsin. I cant tell where the oil is coming from but the water is dripping from the water pump area. I really don't know about the 2.8. I'm thinking water pump and valve covers. Any ideas? If this is a sign that the motor has had enough, how big is the 3400 swap? I have heard it's a direct swap? Please let me know. I can lay my hands on a 3400 fairly easy.
OK, i have an issue. My 85 has started to drip oil and water since my little trip to Wisconsin. I cant tell where the oil is coming from but the water is dripping from the water pump area. I really don't know about the 2.8. I'm thinking water pump and valve covers. Any ideas? If this is a sign that the motor has had enough, how big is the 3400 swap? I have heard it's a direct swap? Please let me know. I can lay my hands on a 3400 fairly easy.
Fixing a waterpump is pretty easy, you may be getting the dripping from the weep hole in the bottom of it, but since your also getting oil u may have a bad head gasket, the 3400 is an easy install, Steve has the jig to redrill the starter holes I think if I remember right the 3400 u want is outa a 95ish camaro
Jets....It's a 3.4 pushrod engine from a 94-96 Camaro or Firebird. The 3400 is an aluminum head engine from a FWD car. The 3.4 is an easier swap.
Steve
how much more difficult of a swap is the 3400 vs. a 3.4? if I were to do this swap I would want the more modern engine. I know the electronics would need to come from the donor car and you couldn't retain the fiero intake or exhaust, but will the 3400 bolt in with the 2.8 mounts?
Um ya I need a new windshield doh! dang it its thundering no no no no no no damn it I dont need rain right now!!!!!!!!! I will try and take a half day friday I was looking over Archies directions and pics and well dosent look too much diffrent than how u did yours but I did notice he has wood templates for the door openingd top to tbe b pillar and those dont come with the kit only the back window form. I need a windshield!!!!!!!!!!!!!! sell me yours and then ill get one from gibbys at a later date outa a 88 im poor! bring your sawzall friday I have one but it constantly looses the blades I think its getting wore out I have cut off wheels too and plenty of weld wire tomorrow since its raining prob ill make the braces for inside the car and weld them in. I have some tube at work yet I might bring home to make a cross brace as well.
ok Rob now that I have the proper # I'll call before I come up there tomorrow. I'll bring my sawsall. I'm thinking I may sell you my windshield for what I have in it. [$40] We'll talk about it tomorrow
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 04-28-2011).]
Originally posted by av8fiero: how much more difficult of a swap is the 3400 vs. a 3.4? if I were to do this swap I would want the more modern engine. I know the electronics would need to come from the donor car and you couldn't retain the fiero intake or exhaust, but will the 3400 bolt in with the 2.8 mounts?
If you're stuck on a 3400 swap (and it sounds like you are), by all means go for it. Be forewarned, however, that it's a much more complicated engine swap.
I did a pushrod 3.4L engine swap primarily because it's much easier, basically a reincarnation of a 2.8L Fiero engine, but with a larger bore and stroke.
My 3.4L Fiero is used as my year-round, daily driver, something which you, as a felow resident of northeastern Wisconsin (and likely familar with its gawdawful long winters), probably can appreciate is no small accomplishment.
I've nothing against other engine swaps (like the 3400, for example); just be aware they're more complicated than the pushrod 3.4L engine swap, which doesn't even need diifferent electronics.
If you're stuck on a 3400 swap (and it sounds like you are), by all means go for it. Be forewarned, however, that it's a much more complicated engine swap.
I did a pushrod 3.4L engine swap primarily because it's much easier, basically a reincarnation of a 2.8L Fiero engine, but with a larger bore and stroke.
My 3.4L Fiero is used as my year-round, daily driver, something which you, as a felow resident of northeastern Wisconsin (and likely familar with its gawdawful long winters), probably can appreciate is no small accomplishment.
I've nothing against other engine swaps (like the 3400, for example); just be aware they're more complicated than the pushrod 3.4L engine swap, which doesn't even need diifferent electronics.
OK, i have an issue. My 85 has started to drip oil and water since my little trip to Wisconsin. I cant tell where the oil is coming from but the water is dripping from the water pump area. I really don't know about the 2.8. I'm thinking water pump and valve covers. Any ideas? If this is a sign that the motor has had enough, how big is the 3400 swap? I have heard it's a direct swap? Please let me know. I can lay my hands on a 3400 fairly easy.
Jake, check the oil pressure sender. They are prone to leak oil. The waterpump could have failed and is leaking out the weap hole as Jets said.
I've done a 3.4tdc, a 3400 and a 3900. The 3400 was by far the easiest swap, uses stock mounts, flywheel and clutch. $100 gets vats deleted and you are on the road. Also has good power and fuel economy. It would be my first recomendation due to its ease and available upgrades.
I've done a 3.4tdc, a 3400 and a 3900. The 3400 was by far the easiest swap, uses stock mounts, flywheel and clutch. $100 gets vats deleted and you are on the road. Also has good power and fuel economy. It would be my first recomendation due to its ease and available upgrades.
Thanks for the info Joshua. What do you think about a 3500 swap? If I ever pick up another Fiero to mess with that engine seems like it would be a good choice if it will bolt up as a 3400 will.........
........ Hopefully I won't be as slow at making progress on my car as I have been. I'd like to get it down to Watertown and show you my homebrew chop. Now that I have some other Fiero fans who live close to me I may get a fire lit under my azz and get it on the road
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 04-28-2011).]
If you're stuck on a 3400 swap (and it sounds like you are), by all means go for it. Be forewarned, however, that it's a much more complicated engine swap.
I did a pushrod 3.4L engine swap primarily because it's much easier, basically a reincarnation of a 2.8L Fiero engine, but with a larger bore and stroke.
My 3.4L Fiero is used as my year-round, daily driver, something which you, as a felow resident of northeastern Wisconsin (and likely familar with its gawdawful long winters), probably can appreciate is no small accomplishment.
I've nothing against other engine swaps (like the 3400, for example); just be aware they're more complicated than the pushrod 3.4L engine swap, which doesn't even need diifferent electronics.
Ok I understand why you and others go with 3.4 camaro engine partially in part to the ease of the electronic side of the swap. I really was just wondering what hurdles there were to swapping in a 3400, 3500, or even the 3900 besides the electronics. I know that the electronics can be a big part of the headaches of a swap, but they can be overcome. I guess my real question is how all the mechanical stuff, i.e. mounts, flywheel, exhaust, and intake fit into/hookup up in a Fiero. I'm really not set on doing any such swap in the near future, as my present toy already has a complete running small block chevy swapped into it. Bigjake/Aaron is the one considering it as an option to solving his present issue with his car.
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 04-28-2011).]
there are 2 3500's. after doing the 3900 I would stay away from the vvt unless using the stock computer. The non vvt 3500 is good but requires an external crank trigger and custom tune unless using the factory computer. I'm a huge fan of the 3400 because the computer has been hacked to death. It's the same as the 3800. Tuning and driveability will be much better and quench is right at .040'' acording to 60degreev6.com. They are all good but for ease of install I still go for the 3400. then later if you want you can upgrade headers, cam, and switch to 3500 heads if desired. Now if you wanted to use the 3900 and use my camshaft grind and copy the tune you would be off to a head start but it seems quench is quite high in the 3900 and I'll likely install thinner head gaskets in the future. It all comes back to the 3400 in my opinion.
Joshua do you have a estimate of how many choptops are here in Wisconsin? I'm only familiar with the 2 you built, mine, and the soon to be one that Jets/Rob is building. Are there any more that you know of?
Reading the link you just posted reminds me. Is it possible to run 3400 heads on the iron 3.4 block? They mention it in the link. What does as conversion like that entail? I've only heard little bits about it, like the fact that it supposedly yields like a 20-40 HP gain. That sounds too good to be true. Anybody know anything about that?
------------------ TRSX
The Zombiero - "Thrice resurrected"
1985 GT, 4 Speed Muncie, 3.4PR V6, 15" Lace GT wheels, Power everything, sunroof, Red with gray effects. Driven and enjoyed daily.
read through that link again, you'll have approximately 13:1 compression. Unless you're going to run race gas or E85 only [I know you can run more compression with E85 but can you go that high? not sure, not an E85 expert], You'll have SEVERE detonation. Can you say "KA BOOM!!!"
edited to add- I'm no expert on these V6 engines, but from what I've read if you can figure out a way to make the engine live you'll also have to change the intake as the fiero stuff doesn't fit those heads, not sure on the exhaust side of things. Someone else can better answer this I'm sure
[This message has been edited by av8fiero (edited 04-28-2011).]
hey joshua if your not workin friday come join in the cuttin fun! av8 and i will be starting the cuttin and since u have done it the archie way some pics of the interior cuts would be cool with a tape meashure in the pic some of the directions from archie are a bit vauge in areas.
It's a pretty common swap putting 3400 heads on earlier blocks. just swap pistons. There is a calculator on 60degree for mixing different parts. You would have to use DIS or flip the upper intake around and rework the intake to clear the distributer. Never done it but I think it's possible. Menasha looks a little far for me for a friday. I would probably recommend a cutoff wheel though. I couldn't keep the sawzall blade straight and you'll be going through a few layers of steel. I also didn't do it exactly like archie. I didn't modify the rear hoop so a sunroof is not an option for me. When you put the roof back on make sure the roof panel sits close to the steel like stock. I had to grind down the metal pads so the roof wasn't high in the front. Also don't forget to fill the upper windshield corners a little or else the seal won't cover the gap. Funny things happen when you start bending the windshield frame. I seem to think there was a white chop done by archie that's in WI but it would probably be better to ask him. There was also a homebrew yellow one by a guy I met named seth but he moved south and I haven't seen the car since. It had a quad 4. If the weather holds out there will be 2 chops at greatlakes dragaway on sunday. It's a pretty long drive from Appelton I imagine though.
hey joshua if your not workin friday come join in the cuttin fun! av8 and i will be starting the cuttin and since u have done it the archie way some pics of the interior cuts would be cool with a tape meashure in the pic some of the directions from archie are a bit vauge in areas.
Jets, What time is this taking place? I am off all day.
RIGHT NOW!! I need to get the bulk of it done by 2 I have to run the kids up to greenbay for a appointment with a child psycoanalyst for an evaluation for the lawsuit I have going. Bring you sawzawl and safty glases and whatever other cutting thing u may want to use, my sawzawl isnt the greatest as u have seen and chris will have his here so should go fairly quick, I have welding wire and am ready to go.
Originally posted by joshua riedl: It's a pretty common swap putting 3400 heads on earlier blocks. just swap pistons..
I'm concerned you inadvertently may mislead members of our Fox Valley Fieros club with that statement. I'd think your advice to "just swap pistons" likely would not be an inexpensive operation on a pushrod 3.4L V6 engine swap.
Have you a link which you can share with us regarding the supposedly "common swap" of the 3400 cylinder heads on a pushrod 3.4L V6 engine swap?
i don't have any links but thirdgen.org and 60degreev6.com will keep you busy reading. i didn't mean to mislead your club, just trying to offer some insight since I've been down the 60degree road a few times before.
Hey guys I was thinking would you guys want to do a club shirt? The logo we have on our cars has to much small details in it to embroider into the shirt it just would not come out. have any ideas send them my way.. I was thinking your name on the front and a fiero logo on the back with the club name over it or if a website is started the sites name on it.
what do you guys think. The more shirts the better as it will keep the shipping costs down and shirt costs down. I was hoping to do a min of 10 shirts.
Hey guys I was thinking would you guys want to do a club shirt? The logo we have on our cars has to much small details in it to embroider into the shirt it just would not come out. have any ideas send them my way.. I was thinking your name on the front and a fiero logo on the back with the club name over it or if a website is started the sites name on it.
what do you guys think. The more shirts the better as it will keep the shipping costs down and shirt costs down. I was hoping to do a min of 10 shirts.
I was just talking to foxy fiero last weekend about club shirts, I have posted on our club site that I want to do t-shirts at some point, I was looking into silk screening the logo so it could be done and then having everyones names on it too but if it could be embroiderd id be ok with the fiero logo and club name like u suggest!
i don't have any links but thirdgen.org and 60degreev6.com will keep you busy reading. i didn't mean to mislead your club, just trying to offer some insight since I've been down the 60degree road a few times before.
Thanks for the info on 3.4, 3400, and 3.4 /3400 hybrid swaps everyone. All this talk was started because Jake/Aaron was thinking aloud about a possible engine swap to solve his issue with his current 2.8 v6. As has been stated Aaron easiest route would be the 3.4 [same electronics], followed by the 3400 [bolts in but you'll have to deal with the electronics].There are many 60 degree v6 swap options out there, some cheaper/easier than others. It's good to have options don't you think? No need to get worked up over someone saying there's another way of doing things.
Hey Joshua, our club may be based in the fox valley area but Watertown isn't too far. Our club is VERY informal [no dues], you're welcome to join if you wish. Mainly what goes on in our club are group junkyard runs [we have an excellent j/y up here!], helping each other with our car projects [Jets/rob you OWE me LOL], an occasional cruise, and just plain chit chatting in this thread. As I said feel free to join [we have cool stickers lol!], or just pop in on this thread if you're not a club guy. The more the merrier.
Rob the car looks great, awesome progress on it today. The majority of the welds are done, now get some gas and finish it up! Any time you need help let me know and I'll see if I can swing by.
I should be able to drive my fiero some this weekend!!!
its running great but I went to bleed the brakes and had a leak (that wasnt fixable just by tightening a fitting).. apparently theres something wrong with the flare
that and the front brakes wouldnt bleed at all, but the rears would. I got another master cyl and brake distribution/prop valve at the yard. I swapped that out so once the leak is fixed should be able to bleed the brakes. then I just need to adjust the ebrake and brakes should be good to go!!
woohoo!! I've had this car since August and only drove it in/out of the garage sofar (with no brakes LOL)
once its aligned and painted it should be rather nice. still a bunch of misc things but small things in comparison to what I've done sofar
I should be able to drive my fiero some this weekend!!!
its running great but I went to bleed the brakes and had a leak (that wasnt fixable just by tightening a fitting).. apparently theres something wrong with the flare
that and the front brakes wouldnt bleed at all, but the rears would. I got another master cyl and brake distribution/prop valve at the yard. I swapped that out so once the leak is fixed should be able to bleed the brakes. then I just need to adjust the ebrake and brakes should be good to go!!
woohoo!! I've had this car since August and only drove it in/out of the garage sofar (with no brakes LOL)
once its aligned and painted it should be rather nice. still a bunch of misc things but small things in comparison to what I've done sofar
Thanks for the info on 3.4, 3400, and 3.4 /3400 hybrid swaps everyone. All this talk was started because Jake/Aaron was thinking aloud about a possible engine swap to solve his issue with his current 2.8 v6. As has been stated Aaron easiest route would be the 3.4 [same electronics], followed by the 3400 [bolts in but you'll have to deal with the electronics].There are many 60 degree v6 swap options out there, some cheaper/easier than others. It's good to have options don't you think? No need to get worked up over someone saying there's another way of doing things.
Hey Joshua, our club may be based in the fox valley area but Watertown isn't too far. Our club is VERY informal [no dues], you're welcome to join if you wish. Mainly what goes on in our club are group junkyard runs [we have an excellent j/y up here!], helping each other with our car projects [Jets/rob you OWE me LOL], an occasional cruise, and just plain chit chatting in this thread. As I said feel free to join [we have cool stickers lol!], or just pop in on this thread if you're not a club guy. The more the merrier.
Rob the car looks great, awesome progress on it today. The majority of the welds are done, now get some gas and finish it up! Any time you need help let me know and I'll see if I can swing by.
Thanks, I've been checking on this thread for a while, just never had anything useful to post. I could also debate that the 3400 is easier than the 3.4. The 3.4 needs to have the starter redrilled, the 3400 doesn't. The 3.4 will also need a custom tune. The 3400 can use a stock computer or 60degreev6 has a chip already tuned using the 7730 and the 3400 in a fiero if you don't want obd2. Darth may also have a tune for the 3.4, I would check first. Tuning was my biggest expense with the 3900. And I really want to keep other people from following that mistake.
Did a little spring cleaning. Need to wet sand and buff it out yet. Hint..Hint...Jets !!
Steve
Sooo nice!! I love the black, but I'm thinking about going with silver myself
last week I did some blasting on your springs which was taking forever. I ended up using paint stripper instead to get the majority of it off. just wanted to give you an update that I am making progress on them, just been busy. if you need them back soon just let me know. or else it wont be much longer anyway
Originally posted by joshua riedl: The 3.4 needs to have the starter redrilled, the 3400 doesn't. The 3.4 will also need a custom tune. The 3400 can use a stock computer or 60degreev6 has a chip already tuned using the 7730 and the 3400 in a fiero if you don't want obd2. Darth may also have a tune for the 3.4, I would check first. Tuning was my biggest expense with the 3900. And I really want to keep other people from following that mistake.
I'm getting the sense there may be some major terminilogical difficulties here (e.g., "3.4L" versus "3400"), with which you inadvertently may have transposed and unfortunately misled BigJake34 about the pushrod 3.4L engine swap sourced from 1993 through 1995 3.4L-equipped Camaros and Firebirds.
First, one does not need "the starter redrilled." I think you'll agree that drilling holes in a starter is a bad idea. Rather, one drills a hole in the engine block to relocate the starter. If I still have it, BigJake34, I can loan you the virtually foolproof, all-metal jig I purchased from Rodney Dickman to do just that ( http://www.rodneydickman.com/retail.html ).
Second, and much more imporrtantly, the 3.4L engine swap does not need a custom tune. I've had my 3.4L engine swap in my year-round, daily driver Fiero since New Year's Eve, 2006. Because it's my year-round daily driver, I can't afford to screw around with a custom tune to guarantee it will start and run reliably at 15o below zero during our gawdawfully long Wisconsin winters --- but that is exactly what it has done, with the stock Fiero computer, and with no custom tune --- since New Year's Eve, 2006.
Third, the 3.4L engine swap from a 1993 through 1995 Camaro or Firebird very readily accepts the stock 2.8L Fiero cam (because it's the same cam), the stock 3.4L cylinder heads (because they're the same cylinder heads), the stock 2.8L Fiero valve covers (which not surprisingly bolt right back onto those same cylinder heads), and even the stock 2.8L Fiero intake manifold. The 3400 swap does not do that readily. Aside from its displacement, that engine is a much different animal than the pushrod 3.4L engine sourced from a 1993 through 1995 V6-equipped Camaro or Firebird.
Titled, "Fiero 3.4L F-Body Engine Conversion," the current version of this (surprising brief) article authored by fellow PFF member, crazyd, indexes its subject matter into 22 sections:
Getting Started
3.4 Engine Choices
Gaskets
Mounting the 3.4 Engine On Its Stand
Oil Filter Adapter
Mounting the Flywheel/Flexplate
Relocating the Starter: Drilling the Holes
Tapping the Starter Holes and Mounting the Starter
Exhaust Manifolds
Bellhousing
Block Chop
Oil Pan
Timing Cover
Cleaning Gasket Surfaces
Water Pump
Harmonic Balancer
Accessory Transfer
Oil Pressure Sender and A/C Compressor
Clutch
Mounts
Installing the Engine Back On the Cradle
Setting the Ignition Timing
Even in its updated, slightly expanded version, that 3.4L engine swap write-up still amounts to only 10 pages of hard copy, as opposed to the hundreds you may see elsewhere. However, I think you'll find that reading those 10 pages and keeping them handy with you will represent a very time-efficient way to answer many or all of the key questions you may have regarding the installation of a 3.4L engine swap into your Fiero.
Take care, BigJake34, and good luck to you with your interim 3.4L engine swap project.
[This message has been edited by project34 (edited 04-30-2011).]
