Dave: Got to give you credit. You have ventured where no man has gone!! Must admire your sense of innovation in swaps.. Your work seems to be migrating towards "Choose the engine and choose any chassis".
------------------ " THE BLACK PARALYZER" -87GT 3800SC Series III engine, custom ZZP /Frozen Boost Intercooler setup, 3.4" Pulley, Powerlog manifold, Northstar TB, LS1 MAF, 3" Flotech Afterburner Exhaust, Autolite 104's, MSD wires, Custom CAI, 4T65eHD w. custom axles, HP Tuners VCM Suite. "THE COLUSSUS" 87GT - ALL OUT 3.4L Turbocharged engine, Garrett Hybrid Turbo, MSD ign., modified TH125H " ON THE LOOSE WITHOUT THE JUICE "
That is the swap I am waiting for too. I would be happy with a non turbo 3.6 Camaro engine. I really like the 60 degree engine sound. Wiith the increased rpm range of these engines, my Fiero would sound even more like an exotic, and run pretty good too!
Agreed about the high revving engines being perfect for the Fiero. My VR6 Fiero is more fun to drive than my 3800s/c Fiero at a little more than 1/2 the whp....and it is geared perfectly, so it keeps up.
Dennis, both Ryan and I are enjoying this swap because we are the only ones we answer to. I haven't been in the mood to touch this car for 6 months and I didn't have to. I am really in the zone on it because the last two weeks we had nothing else to do. The roads here were not good for Fieros, no electric etc. Basically, we couldn't work on anything else due to the conditions, so we worked on this. I think a swap comes out better when you can walk away from it and come back at it with a fresh mind.
The custom axles have been installed....(only a 4 day turnaround, which was amazing). The VW ecu was sent to Malone Tuning in Canada for the custom tune to make the adaptation in the Fiero more comfortable. The exhaust, fuel system and cooling system are complete. Oddly enough, the radiator hose from the Jetta fit the Fiero passenger side perfectly. The 3800 Fiero driver's side hose fit perfect as well. The nice part about using the Jetta transmission is the trans cooler is built into the transmission and no lines from front to rear are needed.
We had to cut the EGR valve and reweld it to have a 90 degree turndown because it hit the strut tower. We used an Audi Allroad charge pipe which fit perfectly. We wound up going with the EGR delete to cut down on soot buildup and the lack of room. We don't expect that to have any negative effects.
I'll be taking a week or two off this project because I have other stuff going on and I lost the focus on this one. I can post up pics if anyone wants to see what we got so far
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 11-18-2012).]
Pics of it mounted to the cradle......er......uh....yeah.....about that......
We decided to not mount the engine to the cradle. Instead we reinforced the upper frame rails and fabricated mounting points that allowed us to use the stock Jetta mounts. The stock Jetta dogbone is used as well which bolts to the Fiero cradle in the same manner as the Jetta.
The prupose of this is for when the car is sold, the owner can take it to any VW repair specialist and that specialist will have no issues working on it because it will be as if it were still in the Jetta. The timing belt is easier than in the Jetta. It still uses all stock parts including the stock belt size. The electronics are all VAG-COM compatible too.
I will take some pics of the mounts, exhaust etc. and post them up in the next day
I will also take a pic of the ECU and Trans computer once I get the ECU back. My mounting of the two modules as well as the main juction plugs and alternate plugs came out a lot nicer than expected. I reworked the center console skeleton to hold one of the computers. The transmission module fits nicely where the stock ecm was.
Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 11-18-2012).]
Pics of it mounted to the cradle......er......uh....yeah.....about that......
We decided to not mount the engine to the cradle. Instead we reinforced the upper frame rails and fabricated mounting points that allowed us to use the stock Jetta mounts. The stock Jetta dogbone is used as well which bolts to the Fiero cradle in the same manner as the Jetta.
The prupose of this is for when the car is sold, the owner can take it to any VW repair specialist and that specialist will have no issues working on it because it will be as if it were still in the Jetta. The timing belt is easier than in the Jetta. It still uses all stock parts including the stock belt size. The electronics are all VAG-COM compatible too.
I will take some pics of the mounts, exhaust etc. and post them up in the next day
I will also take a pic of the ECU and Trans computer once I get the ECU back. My mounting of the two modules as well as the main juction plugs and alternate plugs came out a lot nicer than expected. I reworked the center console skeleton to hold one of the computers. The transmission module fits nicely where the stock ecm was.
Im looking very forward to some pictures. I have started on the exact same swap, but 02 golf tdi and 87 Fiero. Im planing on placing the engine over the cradle with the hoist then meassure for each axle. Once the axles are done I can then start to fab up motor mounts. What did you do as far as moding the axles? I plan on combining the two using the VW inner and Fiero outer splined portion. Who did the work? How much? Again looking forward to some pictures. Once I have some real progress I'll post some of mine.
[This message has been edited by Burning Oil (edited 11-18-2012).]
I've seen your thread on TDI club. I would suggest making your mounts first...before the axles. Our issue was using the 88 cradle which is fatter than the pre 88 cradles. We were originally going to mount the engine to the cradle with soft mounts to reduce vibration, but went with the liquid filled stock mounts instead. We tried to keep the custom parts to a minimum to reduce the costs of future repairs. The axles can be made from most any custom axle shop. I used the driveshaft shop in NC to make these axles. Just give them the inner flange size, axle length and wait for the ups truck.
I've seen your thread on TDI club. I would suggest making your mounts first...before the axles. Our issue was using the 88 cradle which is fatter than the pre 88 cradles. We were originally going to mount the engine to the cradle with soft mounts to reduce vibration, but went with the liquid filled stock mounts instead. We tried to keep the custom parts to a minimum to reduce the costs of future repairs. The axles can be made from most any custom axle shop. I used the driveshaft shop in NC to make these axles. Just give them the inner flange size, axle length and wait for the ups truck.
I'll take some pics today.
Dave
Thanks for the tips. I think the electronics/wire harness will be the hardest part. Im planing to mount engine to the cradle. I did look at using the VW frame mounts also, but I would still have mounted those to cradle. BTW mine is a 5 speed stick.
Here are a few pics. This was all done in about a day or two when the hurricane stopped the phone from ringing....
ecu mounted under the skeleton....the a/t module is mounted where the factory ecm was mounted.
a/c hose with the adapter to take the VW's size 10 high size hose to the Fiero's size 8. The low side is the same for both the Fiero and VW.
oil pan clearance vs the stock crade....we did have to notch the cradle to allow for clearance. The pan is at the same angle as it sits in the Jetta. We also cut and welded the front section of the cradle where the parking brake cable routes through. We fabricated a new cable holder. The reason for this was to allow the clearance of the a/c compressor. This was the reason I didn't install a/c in the VR6 Fiero, but we have grown since then and we would want a/c in our commuter car.
Factory VW dogbone with our mount to the cradle...mounted exactly as VW does. The charge pipe is just hanging there. We did not get to that yet.
custom axle. I was waiting for more axle bolts to arrive before the pic was taken....only 3 of the 6 bolts are installed. The suspension is at full hang because it is on the lift. The axles are in line when the wheels are on the ground.
Do you think you would have the time and wouldn't mind documenting this swap in detail. I have been both a long term VW TDI & Fiero enthusiast. I have been thinking about doing this for a while and was waiting for someone else to successfully complete and document.
I do have everything documented in detail. To be honest, I am looking at the cost of building this vs the labor involved and estimating the price we will be able to sell it for and I came to the conclusion that we built this for the sake of building it. Whoever buys the car after it is complete will be getting a hell of a deal...and a one off car.
We took the pump apart to remove the vanes and secure the bearing. The bearing is a typical sealed roller bearing the same as an idler pulley so it should work without issues. We did this to keep the belt the stock size. Our goal is to make the maintenance easier than in the Jetta. The stock VW fuel filter is used, and a lot of the electronics will be the same.
I plan to include the book that I put together when we sell it. The book consists of the stock wiring diagrams, the mods we made to them and the interface to the Fiero.
I will try and remember to post some pics, but when I get in the zone, the last thing I think of is the camera....lol
I'll pull my pump back apart and take a look. I could swear one side has a sealed bearing, but the other is a bronze (or simular) type fixed bearing.
Im also tring to reuse as many VW parts as possible as I have all of them off the donor. Im sure many things I do will be very simular to what you do, afterall we're doing "almost" the same exact combo. If you have a book or documentation of what you've done so far I'd even buy a copy. I'll PM you my info. I have not tried yet, but can you pull/drop the TDI and trans through the top? One last thing, how do I subscribe to this thread? Im not getting email notifications.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT. 2002 Golf TDI.
[This message has been edited by Burning Oil (edited 11-23-2012).]
I honestly don't remember the deal with the power steering pump. I do know that we both agreed that the mod we did would work. My original idea was to install an idler pulley the same size as the power steering pump....that is still our backup plan. Right now, there are no updates to post. I've been tuning another build in the shop, and Ryan has been breaking in a new apprentice. Everyone who has ever met Ryan and me in person (at the shop) say that we are the most intense people they have met....the new guy is a little scared, but hasn't quit yet. I am waiting for the ecu to return from Canada with the tune and I'll be back on the wiring harness.I still haope to hear it run by Christmas, but I'm not counting on it. We have been working 14 hours everyday and I haven't stopped to take lunch in 3 weeks.
I thought about an idler pulley to, then thought its something else to break and then the fab work/finding a suitable pulley...ect I just deleted it and went with a shorter belt.
With any luck I'll be able to update my own thread soon. Between cleaning the shop, working, holidays I have not been able to work on it. I got a space cleared out under the lift so will be back on it in the next week or so.
What all did you have done to the ECU.
------------------ 1987 Fiero GT. 2002 Golf TDI.
[This message has been edited by Burning Oil (edited 12-09-2012).]
We had a power increase done with keeping fuel economy in mind. The EGR was deleted due to the fact that the EGR valve was up against the strut tower and that is the main cause of the soot buildup in the intake. The immo was deleted even though we plan to use the Jetta cluster, but they are very tempermental and I don't want any issues to arise that could have been prevented.
Just a quick update. I've been spending about an hour or two everyday working on the wiring harness. It is actually coming out much cleaner than I expected. I'll post up pics once I get the cluster wiring cleaned up. Our plan is to fabricate a holder for the Jetta cluster in the very near future. I made a holder for the PNP relay, B+ relay, and glow plug relay. All the wiring colors match the factory wiring and all wiring junctions to the Fiero have been noted in my binder which will stay with the car after it is sold. I'm trying to make it as VW mechanic friendly as possible and it will be completely VAG-COM compatible.
Oh sweet mother of God! Not the 01M!!!! I'm on my 3rd valvebody, swapped all the solenoids, upgraded the ribbon cable to the regular cables, vag-com programmed it to 00011 and still shifts like crap and has a horrible 2-1 downshift bump... I would recomend ANYTHING but the 01M...
Oh sweet mother of God! Not the 01M!!!! I'm on my 3rd valvebody, swapped all the solenoids, upgraded the ribbon cable to the regular cables, vag-com programmed it to 00011 and still shifts like crap and has a horrible 2-1 downshift bump... I would recomend ANYTHING but the 01M...
I've had no major issues with a bunch of the 01M transmissions. The way to prolong the life of the transmission is to service it every 50,000 miles. When the transmission starts giving you issues, fix the problem....I've seen people come into my shop that need a trans because it has been slipping or not shifting for weeks. I normally call them a dumbass to their face and give them a bill for a few thousand. The ribbons go bad but are an easy fix. The speed sensors sometimes crap out, but they are easy too. The only pain in the ass job that happens on these transmissions are the vss gears breaking. Cheap part, expensive labor. We would have preferred using a manual, but the Jetta and the Fiero were both autos so the decision was made for us.
Like I said before, the only people with issues with this transmission aren't properly maintaining their Jetta's or Golf's.
Dave
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 01-17-2013).]
I've had no major issues with a bunch of the 01M transmissions. The way to prolong the life of the transmission is to service it every 50,000 miles. When the transmission starts giving you issues, fix the problem....I've seen people come into my shop that need a trans because it has been slipping or not shifting for weeks. I normally call them a dumbass to their face and give them a bill for a few thousand. The ribbons go bad but are an easy fix. The speed sensors sometimes crap out, but they are easy too. The only pain in the ass job that happens on these transmissions are the vss gears breaking. Cheap part, expensive labor. We would have preferred using a manual, but the Jetta and the Fiero were both autos so the decision was made for us.
Like I said before, the only people with issues with this transmission aren't properly maintaining their Jetta's or Golf's.
Dave
They are known for premature valve body wear. That's why VW had put an "extended" warranty on them. and they were sold as "maintenance free" "fluid for life". I got my 2001 Golf for $300 because the trans was toast. Got a trans from a 2002 Jetta (known good trans) and swapped it over, changed the fluid, changed the ribbon, changed the filter. Had to relearn it through a vag-com and then recode it to 00011 as the dynamic shift points didn’t work. Also the fill process on those transmissions is stupid… 35C and then open a check valve.. WTF?
Also, save yourself some potential grief in the future, boost the line pressure on it by 15-20psi by adjusting the pressure regulator about half to ¾ of a turn.
Awesome build however! If VW had engineers like you I might actually consider buying another. LOL!
They are known for premature valve body wear. That's why VW had put an "extended" warranty on them. and they were sold as "maintenance free" "fluid for life". I got my 2001 Golf for $300 because the trans was toast. Got a trans from a 2002 Jetta (known good trans) and swapped it over, changed the fluid, changed the ribbon, changed the filter. Had to relearn it through a vag-com and then recode it to 00011 as the dynamic shift points didn’t work. Also the fill process on those transmissions is stupid… 35C and then open a check valve.. WTF?
Also, save yourself some potential grief in the future, boost the line pressure on it by 15-20psi by adjusting the pressure regulator about half to ¾ of a turn.
Awesome build however! If VW had engineers like you I might actually consider buying another. LOL!
That was probably the late 99 models that had the issues....I know the first year cars were notorious for weird stuff breaking. The later jetta IV models seemed to last longer. The fill point is just a tube in the pan that has a runoff for the fluid at operating temperature. I think just about every German car uses that system.....I got used to not seeing a dipstick...lol
As for the power steering pump....no fluid, no vanes, just the gutted pump (I can't remember what we did internally, but we did discuss it and weigh out our options and felt that there should be no adverse effect by running the empty pump dry). We do have a backup plan for an idler pulley if need be.
How hard will the Saab 2.8l swap be? I'm curious about that one.
I'm picking up the complete drivetrain tomorrow.....I'm hoping it goes smooth, but I'll know as we go.
It took me a year to find a rear crashed 2007 Saab 2.8t with 6 speed manual trans that was fresh and unmolested at a wrecking yard for a decent price...and get the complete setup with uncut wiring. The engines are going for $3500 alone
[This message has been edited by bmwguru (edited 01-18-2013).]
I'm on my 3rd valvebody, swapped all the solenoids, upgraded the ribbon cable to the regular cables, vag-com programmed it to 00011 and still shifts like crap and has a horrible 2-1 downshift bump... I would recomend ANYTHING but the 01M... 
