Originally posted by lateFormula: I would have sanded off all of the ejector marks:
You are 100% correct, and if I had it to do over I would have. I honestly never thought of it before hand. Mark that down as a tip to future swappers that are also detail oriented.
EDIT: Gee... thanks alot! Now I keep thinking about the blemishes on the SC all afternoon now.....
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-02-2016).]
Today's project was to dissemble the throttle body, and get the parts ready for paint. I took a few pictures, and put everything pertaining to it in a labeled zip-lock, but I am still hoping that I can put it back together when I am done! The arm on the cable connector, and the springs and all can go in many positions.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-02-2016).]
That's really nice. Did you use a special kind of brush?
Yes, it is a special brush. The only place that carries it are Pet Smart Outlet centers (Not the stand alone stores). Presently, rumor has it that Old Navy is currently in litigation to sell them in the near future. The brush has a metric adapter wide angle magnetic conversion plate (MAWAMCP) on the rear of the brush that allows for a maximum of -10 PSI. Thus, It is ill advised to even attempt to use this particular brush at, above, or even below seal level.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-12-2016).]
I found a local Mom and Pop paint supply store over the weekend, Terry's Auto Supply. I ordered the Vista Blue I am using from eBay, as I did not know of a local spot yet. Today I stopped by Terry's and purchased a quart of silver for the engine block and transmission. I also got a pint of black for all the pulleys, brackets, mounts, screws, bolts and such. Both are base coat, and need to have clear applied over them. Speaking with them at the paint shop, he says that the base then clear is far more durable than the single stage / all in one.
Even with this quart and a half purchase, they took lots of time to go over some tips and such with me, and asked me if I needed any paint filters, stirring sticks ect, I said that I did. He went in the back, and brought out a decent size box with about 50 paint stirrers, and around 50 filters as well. I reached in and took a few sticks, and a couple filters. He looked at me and said no, the WHOLE BOX is yours to take. Wow! I now have a lifetime supply of paint sticks and filters
Today I painted the valve covers in the Vista Blue body color. These are the last parts (Super Charger and valve covers) that will be body color. Over the coming days / weeks I will be taking off all the pulleys, brackets, mounts and such to paint black. After those are all off, painted and done, the engine block will be stripped enough to finally paint and clear it. I decided to go with base and clear, as mentioned above, for durability, but also have been told that this smooth surface will make it MUCH easier to keep the engine clean for car shows
Here are the valve covers, I am happy with the way they turned out: (I am not sure if I am going to leave the filler neck the way it is, or do it in black when I get the gun loaded to do the other parts)
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-07-2016).]
Just some information for people in the future doing a 3800 swap.
I just purchased a, AC Delco fuel pump kit on eBay for $36. I read about this fuel pump in AutoMarshall's thread, (Thank you! Marshall)
The part numbers are:
AC Delco Part Number: EP381
GM Part Number: 25163473
This is a direct swap for the Fiero fuel pump, and no modification is needed in the Fiero tank. This pump is from vehicles such as the Silverado with a 5.7 liter engine. Thus, PLENTY of fuel flow for a 3.8
just to say, you just bought a Chinese fuel pump, the way to tell old Delco parts and Chinese crap is old stuff is AC-Delco new crap is ACDelco, Just FYI. But that is a higher PSI/flow pump anyway. BTW I might have figured out your old problem.... but an engine swap is one way to fix it, oh wait it won't really.
just to say, you just bought a Chinese fuel pump, the way to tell old Delco parts and Chinese crap is old stuff is AC-Delco new crap is ACDelco, Just FYI. But that is a higher PSI/flow pump anyway. BTW I might have figured out your old problem.... but an engine swap is one way to fix it, oh wait it won't really.
Wow, having a bad day or something Just about all of the AC Delco parts are made in China now, unfortunately. Heck, a lot of the new Craftsman tools are as well now. I had a thread about the engine problems and such. A lot of people came up with good ideas, but I don't remember anyone else saying they knew what it could be, but keeping it to themselves.
You clearly did not read the other thread where I was trying to determine what the problem was. I posted that I had checked ALL fuses and fusible links. Not just visually, but by pulling each one, and testing with a continuity tester, and inspecting the contacts in the plugs. The ignition in the column has also been replaced, so I am still very interested in knowing what you think that it could be, that this same problem will still exist, even with a completely new wiring harness, ECM and engine.
Thinking on this more, how would a fuse cause the engine to die randomly at cruising speed, failing to start when either hot or cold at times, and then start randomly some time later, and run perfectly. All this, many, many times over.
John... I didn't go back to the other thread, but I think I understand.
Unscrew the fasteners that hold the fuse box hinge, and let the whole thing drop down. Make sure that all of the wires are fastened securely to the back of the fuse box. I made some wiring changes behind mine. I want to say that some of the connectors plug in. It's probably worth the few minutes that it would take to check.
Sorry I didn't have time to go into it earlier, I have run across this in a few cars now, at least 3. In the fuse box the connectors that hold the fuses in had cracks in them and would cause interment problems, then I remembered your problem and I have a hunch that is what it is. If any fuse feels even the slightest bit loose look very closely at the plugs that hold it, look for cracks or discoloration. If it is discolored, it is probably cracked, it should be that nice shinny brass color. It would cause every symptom you had.
Edit to add: Yes I did read your other thread, thus why I thought of you when I started seeing this in cars. One car alone had 4 cracked/broken connectors.
Sorry I didn't have time to go into it earlier, I have run across this in a few cars now, at least 3. In the fuse box the connectors that hold the fuses in had cracks in them and would cause interment problems, then I remembered your problem and I have a hunch that is what it is. If any fuse feels even the slightest bit loose look very closely at the plugs that hold it, look for cracks or discoloration. If it is discolored, it is probably cracked, it should be that nice shinny brass color. It would cause every symptom you had.
Edit to add: Yes I did read your other thread, thus why I thought of you when I started seeing this in cars. One car alone had 4 cracked/broken connectors.
Wow.... I had not heard of that until now. I will most definitely have a GOOD look at the fuse box, and check for any abnormalities.
just to say, you just bought a Chinese fuel pump, the way to tell old Delco parts and Chinese crap is old stuff is AC-Delco new crap is ACDelco,
Just got the fuel pump today. The box says "Made in Mexico" and all the paperwork is in Spanish. It's a shame that we make so FEW things in this country now
I just spent the last few hours reading this entire thread and I am so impressed with the high quality work and attention to detail you place in the work you do JohnWPB! You have a lot of awesome ideas and I'm amazed at how well you handled all of the problems along the way. Thank you for documenting your work! It has inspired some more projects for my cars, and I'm sure many others can say the same I was worried when you talked about giving up and am very glad to see that you are continuing! I'm looking forward to reading and seeing more of your work, good luck!!
I just spent the last few hours reading this entire thread and I am so impressed with the high quality work and attention to detail you place in the work you do JohnWPB! You have a lot of awesome ideas and I'm amazed at how well you handled all of the problems along the way. Thank you for documenting your work! It has inspired some more projects for my cars, and I'm sure many others can say the same I was worried when you talked about giving up and am very glad to see that you are continuing! I'm looking forward to reading and seeing more of your work, good luck!!
Wow, that is a lot of reading for sure, and yes, it sure has been a bumpy road along the way. Thank you for the kind words! I certainly never intended this build thread to take going on 5 years now! One of these days, soon I hope, I will actually be able to drive and enjoy the car
Well not an awful lot done this weekend on the engine. Took some time off, went to a nice pizza place on the beach and just relaxed for the most part.
I did test paint a couple pulleys and the water pump to see how the gloss black comes out, as well as the shade of silver I picked for the engine. A very successful test in my opinion The gloss black laid and flowed out beautifully, and even now that it is fully dry to the touch, looks like the paint is still wet. The silver has very fine metal flake in it, and looks really nice! It is very hard to capture silver and chrome on camera, so in this case it looks far better in person.
On a side note technology has really improved in the past few years. I remember my first iPhone, and having to apologize for the crappy photos that I took with it and posted. Here, a few years later I am using a Samsung Note 3 (3 year old phone now) and the pictures are virtually as good (in daylight) as my high end Canon DSLR camera. Every photo on the past 3-4 pages in this thread have all been taken with the Note 3.
Anyhow, enough with the tech rant, and on to the photo's.
Here are the three colors that will make up the entire engine compartment:
I am using gloss black for all the pulleys, mounts, brackets and hardware. The body color blue just on the super charger and valve covers. Finally the metallic silver that will be used on the transmission, engine, and other large components (Starter, Alternator, Compressor ect). I used the water pump to test the color, and am happy with the results, again, it is hard to get a good photo of such a reflective color, but here is a close up that shows better than the above photo:
Paint Information:
Up till just recently, I have been painting everything with rattle cans. It comes out decent, but no matter how nice it looks, the paint is just to "soft" for me. I have parts that I painted a year ago, that I can press a thumbnail into, and leave a mark. It also scratches very easily. I decided to ditch the rattle cans, purchase a compressor, and learn how to really paint
I have watched hours and hours of painting videos, learning tips, tricks, flash times, ratios, learned about temperature & humidity considerations, reviews on paint guns and compressors, paint comparisons and on and on.
The paint that I am using is made by PPG, and the clear coat is by Advantage. I purchased 1 quart of clear, and 1 pint of activator. The clear and the activator are used in a ratio of 4:1 (4 parts clear to one part activator). This is the magic formula that gives that nice hard finish you just can't get with a rattle can. The pint's of the black and silver are "concentrated" and need to be reduced. I purchased a generic reducer, that you mix 50/50 with the paint. This way I actually get one quart each of the black and silver to spray with. Base coats, by themselves, are never glossy when they dry. The base coat also does not have to be very thick, just thick enough so the material being painted is completely blocked out, and can not be seen through the base coat.
For spraying the paint, I am using a $15 ($12 with a 20% off coupon ) Harbor Freight "Purple Paint Gun" as it is known by on MANY forums and YouTube videos. The gun is highly rated, and thought by many to be as good as sprayers 10 times it's price.
I am using the Harbor Freight 21 Gallon compressor, that is routinely on sale for $170. This compressor has put out plenty of air for everything that I have done so far.
Basically, for under $200 I was able to get the compressor, paint gun and air hose. This allowed me to go from using rattle cans for everything, to using a much higher quality and more durable paint.
If you are looking to get into painting, Google is your friend. I did a Google search for paint suppliers in my area, and was lucky to find a nice mom and pop shop, with a very knowledgeable staff. I also recommend watching tons of videos on YouTube on painting, it is amazing what you can learn on there!
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 04-09-2016).]
Thanks for the painting tips. I'm still using rattle cans, but I don't have enough of a volume of work to invest in a spray setup. At least not yet.
Your work looks very good. I kind of have an idea about the silver but, as you said, the pics probably don't do it justice.
I will offer a small bit of advice... If you paint your alternator bracket, make sure that the places where the components touch (alternator to bracket, bracket to block, etc) have the paint ground off. There must be a good metal-to-metal contact, or the alternator body will not see a good ground. Just depending upon the bolt is really not sufficient. I only mention this because I remember seeing a post from someone who had chromed or powder coated his accessory brackets, and his charging system was completely whacked - until he figured out what was going on.,
Originally posted by Raydar: I will offer a small bit of advice... If you paint your alternator bracket, make sure that the places where the components touch (alternator to bracket, bracket to block, etc) have the paint ground off. There must be a good metal-to-metal contact, or the alternator body will not see a good ground.
Thanks for the kind words, and the tip! I probably would not have thought of that when I was prepping the bracket for paint and taping it off.
On that note, now I need to work on figuring out how to low mount the alternator, and figure out what the 4 water lines in the alternator bracket do, direction of flow and circulation wise. Seriously, who runs 2 water lines through an alternator bracket?!
Tinkered with the engine a little more today. I had originally planned to not take the heads off, and just do everything up to that point. Well plans change
I figure that I am this invested into this thing already, I may as well dig a little deeper and check everything. I got one of the heads off today, and am very happy to see that the cylinder walls are not scored in any way, and the pistons are even very clean, with a total lack of carbon deposits. I will take the other one off tomorrow and inspect everything on that side.
I also decided to paint up the starter, and see how it looks in the silver metallic..... I am dying here to see the block done, so this is just to hold me over for now
I'll let the primer dry, and shoot it, and then clear it tomorrow.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-17-2016).]
Hmmmm...... you decided to take it down, or were coerced?
Edit-- take those bolts you took off your heads and THROW THEM IN THE TRASH. Same for the bolts that hold the rockers on. They are TTY bolts and are not designed to be reused. Order new bolts from ZZ Performance.
[This message has been edited by Napoleon_Tanerite (edited 03-17-2016).]
Hmmmm...... you decided to take it down, or were coerced?
Edit-- take those bolts you took off your heads and THROW THEM IN THE TRASH. Same for the bolts that hold the rockers on. They are TTY bolts and are not designed to be reused. Order new bolts from ZZ Performance.
LOL, honestly t is not because you removed the heads from your swap...... I actually had gotten water in the cylinders with everything apart over the course of the past couple weeks. I decided I needed to get the heads off and make sure all traces of the water were gone.
To add some information.... 1999 Buick Ultra... The last seven of the VIN on a 3800 S2 is on the pad the outboard starter bolt threads into.
I found this when I removed the starter: EDIT: THIS IS NOT THE VIN NUMBER, SEE A FEW POSTS DOWN FOR THE CORRECT LOCATION OF THE VIN
In another thread, I was asking for a VIN# from a 2004 GTP so I could try and piece the VIN together with the full VIN, and the last 8 digits from the engine block. bonaduce said he could help me out:
quote
Originally posted by bonaduce: pm me the last 8, i can run it through my parts computer and get you the whole thing in the morning dan
I gave him the digits off the block, and it came back as an invalid VIN. Are these the numbers you were referring to on the outboard starter mount? I notice the block says it is a Series II, when I do know in fact it is a Series III engine.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-20-2016).]
Not too much done today, just a couple more parts painted, the Alternator and the Starter.
It seems simple enough to paint just 2 pieces.....Not really..... first I have to prime with self etching primer, and wait a half hour. Then mist a base coat, wait about 5 minutes, and then give a nice even base coat. Wait 15 minutes for that to flash over, and then hit it with a clear coat. Wait another 15 minutes, and hit it with the second coat of clear. Quite a bit of work and time for a couple parts at a time.
I HOPE to get the engine block painted this weekend. If that's the case, I can then go in reverse, and start to put everything back together again.
Originally posted by Raydar: .. I will offer a small bit of advice... If you paint your alternator bracket, make sure that the places where the components touch (alternator to bracket, bracket to block, etc) have the paint ground off. There must be a good metal-to-metal contact, or the alternator body will not see a good ground. Just depending upon the bolt is really not sufficient. I only mention this because I remember seeing a post from someone who had chromed or powder coated his accessory brackets, and his charging system was completely whacked - until he figured out what was going on.,
Ja! I was one of those. Yes you need to grind of to make good contact with block and other parts.
I now have the lower Alternator mount, and the idler pulley taken care of. I ordered the bracket, as well as the tensioner assembly from FieroRog in his Mall Thread. His parts come HIGHLY recommended, and everyone has commented on how simple and perfectly they bolt up, and line up the first time.
There are 2 parts, the one is the bracket to lower the alternator to where the power steering pump was, and the other to connect to the Fieros stick dog-bone, as well as a location to mount the belt tensioner.
The Belt Tensioner is off of a 1995 Ford Taurus, part numbers are:
ACDELCO 38139
MOTORCRAFT BT42
DORMAN 419202
GATES 38139
DAYCO 89217
The next step is to purchase the motor mounts, then I will pretty much have everything I need to put the engine in the car. Fierorog has those available as well, so I will be ordering again from him here soon. I will be leaving the Exhaust as the last, and very, very much dreaded last major step.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-29-2016).]
I gave him the digits off the block, and it came back as an invalid VIN. Are these the numbers you were referring to on the outboard starter mount? I notice the block says it is a Series II, when I do know in fact it is a Series III engine.
From what I understand, there is no such thing as a Series III block, mine is an 04 from a GTP and the block is marked Series II as well. The block is the same, just minor differences that made them a Series III motor.
The "VIN Number" I posted above returned as invalid. I PM"s olejoedad, and he tole me I had the wrong location and number, and told me where to look. It is located on the starter mount that is right next to the flywheel.
This is what it looks like:
I PM"d the new number to bonaduce to see if this one can be found in his database.
Ok, I have reached the end of the tear down of the engine. I am not tearing into the lower end, just the top. I have read where it is wise to leave the lower end alone, unless you have a problem. Everything seems to be in fantastic condition from everything that I have seen so far. The cylinders are clean with no score marks, there is virtually no carbon on the pistons or the valves, and the rockers all seem to be nice and tight.
The heads look really good, and not all gunked up as I have seen in other engines. This engine really looks like it was well taken care of with oil changes and such.
I did get water in the cylinders and oil over the past 2 weeks, even though I tried to block anything off to keep that from happening. As there was water in the oil already, I said screw it, and washed out the entire engine! I removed the heads and oil pan, and used degreaser to get into all the nooks and crannies. I thoroughly rinsed everything out, and blew out as much water as I could with the compressor. I have a fan laying on the top of the engine, blowing air down through it.
The reasoning behind this was to get rid of any and all of the crud that collects in the corners that could be harboring dirt, sand, metal shavings and such that could get circulated when I put it all back together. Secondly, there was water in the oil already, and that would be very hard to get the water to evaporate, or drain completely when mixed with the oil.
I do have to say, it seemed quite strange using a garden hose to clean the INSIDE of an engine! I will wait a couple hours for the fan to do its thing, and then quirt some oil in the engine to re-coat the bare metal. When she is eventually running, I will do an oil change on it after running an hour or so.
I could not paint yesterday, due to heavy rain / high humidity. I got a chance to get the block done at least today. I just need to paint the lower intake manifold, and the heads, and I can hopefully start assembling everything. I bookmarked a gasket kit, need to get that ordered today, and find the new head bolts as well....
Are you psychic or something? The Oil Pan is on my workbench, and yes it is unpainted It is banged up pretty bad from the engine being dropped onto it. I just ordered this oil pan through Amazon and this gasket (I get free 2 day shipping with Amazon Prime).
I am not going to paint the oil pan, as it is already powder coated black.
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-20-2016).]
More painting progress this afternoon after work.... I got the heads primed, base coated, and cleared. I realize that some of this paint will probably burn off, but hopefully just around the exhaust ports. There is water running through them to help keep them cool after all One thing I learned, is the old gaskets make a perfect stencil for around the exhaust manifold mounting location
I also was able to paint up the lower intake as well:
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-22-2016).]
Ran into a bit of a snag today, two of them actually
First, I just rolled out the transmission to get it cleaned up and prepped for paint, and just now noticed a chunk of the bell housing missing. I know there is not a tight seal between the engine and the transmission, but is this a bad enough problem to render the transmission useless? Also, what is up with the green stencil letters? Was this a factory thing, or was it marked / tagged in a salvage yard or something? The stencils are on the inside side where the engine attaches, [EDIT: The transmission is GM rebuilt] so the transmission would have to be off to paint those letters there. I was under the impression that the engine and transmission were attached and pulled connected from the donor car.
4t65e-hd Automatic Transmission Bell Housing
Second, a hole in the A/C compressor. Looks like another $250 down the tube
[This message has been edited by JohnWPB (edited 03-29-2016).]
No problem with the bell housing; not pretty, but not a big deal. Letters may be from remanufacturer of tranny, or stock ( I have not seen that before.).
Just about all of the AC Delco parts are made in China now, unfortunately. Heck, a lot of the new Craftsman tools are as well now. I had a thread about the engine problems and such. A lot of people came up with good ideas, but I don't remember anyone else saying they knew what it could be, but keeping it to themselves.
