With the recent interest in turning Fiero’s into Lemons and Chump cars I figured I would start my own thread to reference how I did a few things and can now enter races with a very high expectation that I will finish and not get run over. I am on a pretty strict budget, so I do not have the luxury of buying the latest and greatest gizmos, and I am probably not allowed to use them anyway. I have split cranks, destroyed several sets of main and rod bearings, wore out synchros, dislodged axles, and had several other failures in the quest of racing. While different clubs go by different rules, some of the following photos may give you ideas of what works for me. I will probably add to this as things change and I keep making it better. I am sure I probably misinterpreted the rule book in a place or two but I have never been close enough to tick anyone else off and cause a problem. Feel free to ask questions or make comments, worst I will do is ignore you and call you names you can’t hear. Engine/exhaust shot Short ground straps. Shorter = lighter = less chance to break. Easy to get to as well. 88 rear camber problem. Lower links going up to the hub means it has to pull the bottom of the wheel in as the spring compresses. Makes the wheel get positive camber under hard cornering. That’s bad. Still contemplating if a rule change can get the inner mounts legally raised. Or I might try it for a non race - track day to find out if it is worth making the request. I can always put them back where they were if it does not matter. Easy way to attach a tow strap. Also note I cut off the bottom edge of the rear bumper that hung down and basically acted like a parachute back there. I also raised the trunk floor to be even with the bottom of the frame rails. You can't see from this angle but I added the transaxle exterior bearings for the CV tripot and they stopped my axle popping out of the hole problem I had for a couple races. Under hood shot. Note how the sheet metal air dam is gone from behind the radiator. Also note how I foam sealed the cowl area so no air can pressurize the front compartment from the base of the windshield.
Battery mounted low and in the middle. I will upgrade to a miata battery when this one quits. This one was free and 2 pounds lighter than stock. Speedometer was kept as a baseline between drivers. It is not hooked up at this time. Note my additional hash marks. Tach needle almost goes straight down when I am really pushing it. Almost. Main and spare ignition module mounted with a heat sink on the tunnel. If it craps out on the course I can reach over and swap it out. CV boot protection. I tie a string around the soft boots to prevent them from ballooning up and ripping apart. The more rigid ones seem to be more reliable and more tear resistant. Also note WD40 straw on the small end to allow heat to escape. The biggest thing you can do to drop oil and water temp. Add a oil to water cooler. It ties into the system through an adapter under the oil filter and I have the water lines tied into the old heater core system. Every unnecessary wire was removed from the harness to save weight and simplify the system. When I want to run it around my block or hear a noise or whatever, I simply slip a muffler on the end of the pipe and slide it off when finished. Keeps the neighbors away. View of the air dam under the front. I am going to redo this with a splitter of some sort now that I have a pretty good idea of what height I can get away with. Under dash shot. Simplicity prevents problems. Note fuse panel has been relocated, recessed into the center tunnel at the lower left corner of the photo.
I run my air intake outside the engine bay into the wheel well space. Colder air means the the computer will dump more fuel in. More fuel in, more hp. especially having the exhaust pipe very close to it.. And it's cheep to do with other ways than mine. I started with the Fierostore intake but then added a pipe but at Autozone for the civics. People will tell you that the stock set up is more efficient for cold air than engine heat/air.. just sayin.
I like your idea with the oil/water cooler.. I went with a B&M oil cooler with the temperature fan that is on an internal switch which turns on at 185-175º
And all is getting access to the outside by these on both sides... Very functional...
Hey.. don't be made at me either.. just giving some insights to more HP.. Have fun at the races!!
I have run several different intake designs. One lap is less than 2 minutes for me with the exception of Daytona where I run a 2:32 over 3.5 miles. If I have to remove or work around all that extra intake piping, not to mention weight, I would probably lose another lap or more removing it, finding the problem I am having and or replacing it. For example, I have a clear shot at my slave cylinder with my setup. Other setups I have tried all got in the way to some extent. If I need to swap out a broken shift cable, the intake stays there. Seconds count.
Edit to add. I also mounted the intake air temperature sensor in the harness on the other side of the engine where the battery was, so the computer thinks it is a few degrees cooler than it may actually be. I don't have any detonation or other related issues doing it this way.
I have also tried oil to air coolers as well. None of them were able to drop the temperature as efficiently as the oil to water setup. If I am not at 100% braking I am probably on my way to 100% acceleration, There is very little time inbetween. The stresses are much higher on tracks. The amount of oil that actually goes through the cooler means it has to drop as much heat as possible to cool the remaining oil.
Good suggestions/comments. I am always open for comments. In fact I am curious if there is anything that I have not already addressed. I have broken a lot of stuff getting this far.
BTW your car shows another good point. It is VERY clean. I always degrease and hose down all the readily accessible areas of my car after a race. A clean car is much easier to locate trouble spots than a messy car. it is also much easier to work on. When I stuck the camera down to shoot the cooler I realized I need to wash a bit closer in that area and see why it is not completely dry.
[This message has been edited by SCCAFiero (edited 01-31-2011).]
Thanks. There are many little things that were all done to make the car as light, reliable and simple as possible. A few more shots.
Engine shot. I relocated the coil away from the engine and added a heat shield. Since I added the second ignition module inside I made it so I can just unplug the coil wires and the harness stays with the main harness as it comes out to drop the cradle. The only vacuum line left is between the intake/map sensor and the fuel pressure regulator. Everything else is gone. Plug wires are numbered so there is no guessing where they go. Keep in mind, when I am strapped in during an unscheduled stop that means someone else is looking for whatever problem I described on pit road. Some things were done to make things as obvious as possible. Even if I already know. I used a sawzall to remove most of the inner structure on the front and all the inner structure on the back. I wanted to leave the front hood hinges intact for ease of opening it, keeping it out of the way and closing it. The rear is small enough I can grab the whole lid and put it over pit wall if I need to. The front is a bit more challenging to handle for one person. Challenging = lost time. The orange paint was done strictly to contain the loose fiberglass particles that were exposed when I cut the structure away. I had to add a third pin at the cowl to make sure the hood stayed where it belongs. Most clubs require seat backs to be anchored to the cage for rigidity. I simply used two exhaust clamp brackets with 2 pieces of cut to length threaded rod. Adjustable, solid and affordable. Adding a tow hook to the front can be a challenge. I wrapped a strap around the bumper and then through a steel loop for the wrecker to grab and then tied the ends together with a seat belt clip. The tape and cable ties easily snap when it is used but a new tie after repairs and all is well. I know this works as it has been used more than once when I first started this madness a few years ago.
I get where you are coming from in the pit areas and having to be quick if anything goes wrong. I wanted to also say that in mine ( just looking at it) the slave is pretty easy to access and my air intake tube weighs maybe 2 pounds if that. Its all aluminum.
The car is currently about 50 pounds over the race legal weight of 2500 pounds. I still have a few things like put a smaller starter and a smaller battery in it. I already have an aluminum flywheel. Lighter wheels are just not in the budget. Otherwise weight loss is getting down to the ounce level. 2 pounds is still 2 pounds. I also want to add a cool suit and a couple other items like a drink bottle and better video system. That means I really need to get another 60-70 pounds out of it. I just can't justify spending a few hundred dollars on a race battery I use a few times a year.
If anyone sees something I can remove or replace with something lighter, mention it.
One early intake setup I had, included a lightweight section of aluminum tubing that collapsed after about 3 laps and I ended up having to limp into pit road (below 1800 RPM) where the whole thing was ripped off on pit road. I completed the session with the intake system completely off and there was no discernible difference in lap times, so that was the end of the cool air idea. That was a hot day in June in south Florida. I don't sit in traffic. Air does not sit under there, there is constant airflow around the engine. These engines are restricted by the intakes, not hot air. I tried a number of different setups that either got in the way or weighed too much.
Also figured I would mention, I am not taking credit for coming up with all of the things I have done. One of my co drivers is a mechanical engineer with automotive design experience. I consulted with him when I did things like remove the sheet metal behind the radiator so I could add appropriately sized steel tube replacements to maintain structural integrity. Some of the guys I race with have been involved with the SCCA for almost 50 years and I always listen to their stories of how they did things so I can determine if it would be useful in my car. Some of these guys got real creative.
Interior shots. Tires I will discuss in a later post. Since most of the newer clubs all have to run DOT tires, that is probably not as applicable as some of these other tips. I also wonder how effective bigger sway bars and urethane bushings will really be when the car is restricted to DOT tires with a treadwear of 200 or so. I will take some photos of tires I have run and cover that later.
88 rear camber problem. Lower links going up to the hub means it has to pull the bottom of the wheel in as the spring compresses. Makes the wheel get positive camber under hard cornering. That’s bad. Still contemplating if a rule change can get the inner mounts legally raised. Or I might try it for a non race - track day to find out if it is worth making the request. I can always put them back where they were if it does not matter.
Great info!
How much lowering from stock ride height has been done?
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
I am especially curious if anyone has tried the link mount relocation for an improved camber curve that you suggested. That seems like a very good/simple idea.
I was originally running the original springs with about 1.5 coils cut off the front and back. I now have coil overs in the back so I can start out with about 2.5 degrees negative camber. I have about 5.5 inches from the ground to the bottom of the rocker on both sides. The original class I was in was restricted to a 5” ride height and the class I am in now the height is unrestricted. I am not going to debate rules or clubs or which one is better etc. I think they all have their pluses and minuses. I nicely request those topics stay out of this post. I did this solely for the purpose of making it easier for people to build these up and to keep track of some of my photos. I may post some experimental parts I made for track days as they are not race legal for some clubs. This is an old photo before I added bigger sway bars and made a few other changes. This photo pretty clearly shows the issue if you compare the front and rear wheels for camber angle. It started at about 1.5 degrees negative and it was clearly going positive. The outer edge of the tires is still the first to go so the problem still exists although not as bad as it was originally. My tire temperature across the tread is not horrible but could be better.
I have photos of the links raised up on another car and it really does a lot more than just affect camber. It also changes the roll center of the rear suspension for the better.
This was my first race at Daytona in August 2008. I posted this somewhere else but figured I would add it in here as well for the new guys. It is an awesome track. I finished around 40th out of well over 60 cars and about 12 out of 15 for the class. The car has come a long way since then. I am hoping I can run there again in May on the new surface.
This was taken from a Miata that started a couple rows ahead of me and it was his first race there as well. I make a real quick appearance at around the 2:43 time but then don't pass him until the beginning of the second video.
Miata? I saw a 91 Ford Escort in the first video (I used to own one) and in the second video was a second Fiero... In that video at first I thought we were in the Escort watching you but then I realized that the stripes were different looking in the rear view mirror... Cool race though..
Miata? I saw a 91 Ford Escort in the first video (I used to own one) and in the second video was a second Fiero... In that video at first I thought we were in the Escort watching you but then I realized that the stripes were different looking in the rear view mirror... Cool race though..
He said the video was taken from a miata. The Fiero you were seeing was him.
I have photos of the links raised up on another car and it really does a lot more than just affect camber. It also changes the roll center of the rear suspension for the better.
Since it sounds like you've calculated it, do you know what the stock front and rear roll centers are?
I changed it to an aero nose last year and have actually painted it 3 times so far. The first time, the time shown in the photo when I had a brake pad fail and spun me into a wall, and when my co driver bumped someone during his first practice race at driver school last year.
As far as the suspension goes. We attempted to use a laser measuring station to measure all the suspension points a while back. However, the engineer doing it was not able to extrapolate the actual center lines of the all the bolts we could not directly see with the total station as well as we hoped. He is the one with the suspension software that can figure that out. We have not had the opportunity to remeasure it since getting the car, the station and the time to cooperate is a challenge.
The initial estimates he did confirmed the links need to go up but he was not able to put hard numbers on it. In reality the upward movement is going to be limited by the physical location of the transmission so the most we will get is about 1.5".
Tires. I currently run 3 basic types of tires depending on the race. A cantilever slick, a regular slick and DOT race tires (treadwear ranges from 40 to 100 depending on manufacturer). I run DOT race tires for Enduros as I run a different class that does not allow slicks. I used to run smaller tires up front (205s) but found the car would under steer too much. I typically run 225 45 or 50 / 15" DOT tires all the way around or the regular slicks all the way around. I have a couple of the cantilever slicks mounted that I can also run on the front but I need to add a flare to the fender to make them legal as they stick out too far. I am limited to a 15 x7 wheel for club racing.
You can see the sidewall differences between the cantilever slick on the left and the regular slick on the right. The cantilever slick has a modified sidewall that allows a 10” wide tire to fit on a 7” wide wheel. These will only fit on the front of my car as there is less than ¼” of clearance between the sidewall and the rear strut on the back. The regular slicks are about 8.5” wide and while certainly not ideal, they work fine on a 7” wheel as well.
There is some variation in the heights of the tires but not enough to cause any driveability issues. The taller ones allow an extra second or two between shifts at the end of the straights but the shorter ones allow for slightly better acceleration.
For those who may not know, race slicks have wear holes at regular intervals across the cap and around the tire so you can easily determine how much rubber is left.
Spares are required. As clean as a race track looks, these tires are very soft and fairly easily damaged. Crash debris, hardware vibrated off cars and off track excursions will ruin a set of tires very quickly. One of the most important things to learn (and very difficult to accept) in racing is the rule “If you spin, both feet in”. Basically it means if you lose control of the car hammer the brakes to the floor to lock them up and hit the clutch so the engine stays running. 4 locked wheels will make the car skid in a fairly straight line and everyone behind you will know exactly where you will end up so they can go around you. The WORST thing you can do after losing control (in race traffic) is to try and regain control of the car. You become totally unpredictable to other cars and will probably make the situation far worse for everyone. That also means that one good skid will flat spot the tires to a point they may be scrap. Still a cheap price instead of several wrecked cars.
This is the amount of rubber, grass and debris that a couple sets of slicks will pick up after a good track session to your parking area. This is mostly rubber that can be about ¼” thick at times depending on how dirty the paddock is. This is one of the reasons we scrub tires on pace laps to try to clean some of it off. It can easily last a couple laps from what I have been told. I use a small propane torch and a flat steel putty knife to heat this stuff up so it can be scraped off. It has to be cleaned off before the tire can be balanced. Takes about 10-15 minutes a tire depending on how much there is.
Have you worked on your rear suspension knuckles to eliminate all that play on the long cross bolt? Also the lower knuckle to frame trailing arm bolt hole. That one is also very loose and the bolt they used from GM has an under cut center section.
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
For weight saving could you get rid of the doors? Since there is the cage behind them they aren't providing protection anymore. On the drivers side it would make it really hard to get in and out I assume. But on the passenger side, could you just fiberglass the door skin to the body? Then you could remove the hinges and door frame. Of course only if your allowed. It would save a good amount of weight, little harder to work on the car though. Just a thought.
I looked at a quarter mile race car years ago. I had the idea I could maybe make it streetable as a pro street car. A pinto. Was way too altered to ever be street driven again. They had the doors hung on small hand made pins. No factory hinges. The doors were just the sheet metal skins and not much more. Easy to remove. Open the doors and pull some clips and the doors lifted right off.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
Have you worked on your rear suspension knuckles to eliminate all that play on the long cross bolt?
The knuckles seem to be really tight on this car. I just checked since I have it disassembled. The inner frame points are loose which is another reason I am looking at raising them.
I like having the heavy door on the drivers side. A lot of the GT cars run fiberglass skins held on with pins but most of them have full NASCAR style cages with a lot more side protection. I lightened the passenger door a bit although you can't see it behind the aluminum. I may review this area again.
The knuckles seem to be really tight on this car. I just checked since I have it disassembled. The inner frame points are loose which is another reason I am looking at raising them.
I was at V-8 Archie's yesterday and I showed him an 88 rear knuckle and all the play those bolts have in the casting. Archie agreed that is a common problem on the 88 Fiero and a fix for it is a good idea. Even a small amount of play equals a fairly large difference in the toe in setting. I'll be looking for someone who has an 88 apart soon so I can do a pair for N/C for R&D.
------------------ Rodney Dickman
Fiero Parts And Acc's Web Page: All new web page!:www.rodneydickman.com Rodney Dickman's Fiero accessories 7604 Treeview Drive Caledonia, WI 53108 Phone/Fax (262) 835-9575
We ran a 1.5 hour enduro last weekend. 52 cars took the green flag. 48 made the first lap. 28 finished the race and we finished 22nd. We did not make this a points race since we had to run a different class to enter. We had a blast and may try to run Daytona again soon.
Finally managed to have someone get some side photos to see if the camber issue was any better with the coil overs. Apparently not. We ran a brand new set of DOT Kumhos and the outer half of the rear tires took a beating. Might have to expedite doing something about the camber.
Only issue we had was that I spun it once going off course into the grass. I was in a pretty good battle with 2 other cars after passing them and had just a little too much speed entering an off camber turn. Did not hit anything and only lost about 1/2 lap by the time I got waved back on course.
Engine bearings. I originally ran Clevite 77 bearings and did not have much luck using them. My rod bearings were down to the copper after less than 1 hour of racing and the mains were not much better. I switched to Federal Mogul / Sealed Power after doing some research and liked the fact the FM bearings had about twice the oil groove length and that the groove extended into the other half of the bearing. The FM bearing is on the left and the Clevite is on the right. I read (IIRC on 60degreev6) that you can drill 1/8” holes in the oil groove of the main bearings to increase the oil flow to the mains and therefore to the rods as well. I believe the original recommendation was 3, 1/8” holes in each main bearing. After a couple more races and a couple more sets of bearings I decided on a slight modification of this idea and made it my own. You can see on the back side of the bearing on the right the outline of the oil passage that is cast into the block. This is the oil supply passage that pressurizes the main bearings. The current engine in the car has about 10 race weekends on it and is still running. Since the oil pump is mounted on the rear or number 4 cap, I did not add any extra holes there. On the number 3 cap I added 1 extra hole, on the number 2 cap, I added 2 holes and the number 1 cap I added 3 holes. I also run a high volume, not high pressure, oil pump as well. I figure between the FM bearings, the extra machine work of balancing the entire engine, and the oil to water cooler, the engine is no longer starving for oil and cooking bearings like it was when I started. The number 2 rod journal was typically the one that experienced the worst bearing failures before these changes. Street engines would last many miles with either bearing so I am not faulting the Clevites for what they may have been designed for. The track is not the street.
...Finally managed to have someone get some side photos to see if the camber issue was any better with the coil overs. Apparently not. We ran a brand new set of DOT Kumhos and the outer half of the rear tires took a beating. Might have to expedite doing something about the camber.
...
I've been doing some research too and I think camber plates for 1st gen 240z's will work but I haven't received the dimensions yet.
I am just curious, is the string really necessary around the CV boots? The Vette and Nissan GT-R are both capable of near 200 mph speeds and their boots don't explode.
I am just curious, is the string really necessary around the CV boots? The Vette and Nissan GT-R are both capable of near 200 mph speeds and their boots don't explode.
My answer is maybe. I know I have better luck with the string than without. The 20+year old OE boots are by far the most robust parts I have run, except they crack when you start flexing them during typical removal and installation. The cheap, crappy, poor quality, made in east bumble weed who knows where, over the chains store counter, sitting on the shelf for who knows how long boots have a tendency to destroy themselves on a somewhat regular basis. This past weekend I had to replace the driver side axle after a 30 minute practice session that destroyed the slightly better quality rigid boots, without the string. This is not a common failure on other brands at the track, but it does happen to others as well. One of these years I will do some research and find the "correct" high quality boots from a proper source. Asking some performance shops for interchangeable CV boots for a Fiero is an exercise in futility. For now, the string works.
I've been doing some research too and I think camber plates for 1st gen 240z's will work but I haven't received the dimensions yet.
With OE springs the restriction is not the upper attachment area, but the interference at the spring to the strut tower. Now that I have coil overs I may try to slot the upper mounting holes (even more than I currently have) to allow the top to start around -3 degrees parked.
Along that line I was also debating on replacing the rear lower links with a second set of front adjustable links. That way I can push the bottom edge of the tire out and have the same effect as pulling the top in. Heard that one from a vintage racer who did it with his old Lotus and he said it worked great. I was pricing heim joints for raising the mounting points and quickly got over the budget into a few hundred dollars. I was thinking if I just ran 4 adjustable OE links I could try to lengthen them and/or raise them and see which works better by measuring tire wear, tire temperature, lap times and the most important butt-o-meter for overall feeling at the limit of traction. Anyone have a set of adjustable links they want to donate in the name of research?
Originally posted by SCCAFiero: Speedometer was kept as a baseline between drivers. It is not hooked up at this time. Note my additional hash marks. Tach needle almost goes straight down when I am really pushing it. Almost.
So, why did you go with the "cool race car positioning" of the gauges? The reason racers originally started turning the gauges in the dash was so "normal" on the gauge would be when the needle was pointing straight up. That keeps you from having to actually read the gauge and just glance at it to make sure all needles are UP.
The Fiero tach does that from the factory by putting redline straight up to begin with.
If you're looking for more endurance racing, you could run it as a ChumpCar "Exception Class" car.
Do you have any pics of how you have the seat mounted to the floor? I'm working through that issue right now to get myself adequate headroom.
I just have a Kirkey 10 degree layback aluminum seat, mounted directly to the floor at the back of the seat, with the bolts slightly offset to get away from the body plug in the floor back there. The front I have two 1.5 inch aluminum standoffs between the seat and the floor with large fender washers under the floor for reinforcement.
Now that the car is built, the primary expense is entry fees. Florida is a racers heaven with Homestead, PBIR, Sebring and Daytona all within a few hours drive. Not to mention the SCCA, NASA, Chin, Hooked on Driving, FARA and PBOC all having events on a fairly regular basis. I have met some great people within the Florida Region SCCA and therefore I tend to hang around with them. Your region and opinions may differ.
So, why did you go with the "cool race car positioning" of the gauges? The reason racers originally started turning the gauges in the dash was so "normal" on the gauge would be when the needle was pointing straight up. That keeps you from having to actually read the gauge and just glance at it to make sure all needles are UP.
The Fiero tach does that from the factory by putting redline straight up to begin with.
I was waiting for that question. Good catch. The answer is simple. I spent a long time sitting in the car (while building it) trying to get the best balance of seat height, gauge height, helmet visibility, emergency evacuation egress, and general all around visibility. By keeping the Speedo and tach in their original upright positions I either had to lower them in front or behind the roll cage cross tube in order to be able to see over them with the seat mounted on the floor to keep my cg as low as possible. Both the speedo and tach have circuit boards that make them much taller than the part you actually see through the lens. Mounting them sideways gave me over an inch of extra visibility, I don't use the speedo 99% of the time unless I am discussing a particular turn with another driver (it is currently disconnected) and the tach is visible enough where it is. "Coolness" was a byproduct of necessity.
Never looked at that site before, it has potential. Might just send you a PM after looking it over. I know that moving the points up may be easier with a narrower typical heim joint and cone washers than a bushed link. Will have to look into that.
The heim joint would be a tidier package for sure. But wet weather is hell on them, even with seals. You could possibly replace the poly pushing with a nylon one and lower the compliance.
------------------ yellow 88 GT, not stock white 88 notchie, 4 banger
It's a shame John Stricker doesn't post anymore, he has a race car (Fiero) that he and his son run. Damn thing is fast. 
