I saw that you had moved the ignition modules to inside the car, are you having any spark issues? Reason I'm asking is that the pickup coil in the dist only supplies a few millivolts to the ignition module, and I'm surprised it works across that long of a wire..
I saw that you had moved the ignition modules to inside the car, are you having any spark issues? Reason I'm asking is that the pickup coil in the dist only supplies a few millivolts to the ignition module, and I'm surprised it works across that long of a wire..
No quick answer on this one.
Part 1 "Reason" answer; I originally wanted to run a pair of modules closer to the engine and then be able to switch between them with a remote switch. Since I could not figure out a good way to switch all the wires on the modules and I did not want to have the extra resistance/interference of both modules on the circuit I figured the next best thing to do was mount the modules in an accessible location. Most of the wires were just pulled out of the harness and are actually shorter than they were originally.
Part 2 " technical discussion; I have noticed that after running enduros with extended track time that my lap times fall off about 3 seconds. Some of this is fatigue, tire heat, track issues, etc. After about 30 minutes on track the car does not want to idle normally and maintains a higher than normal idle, will occasionally stall and seems to idle a bit rougher than when cold. After it is shut down and cools to ambient temp, it starts and runs perfectly again without changing anything else.
I saw the MSD coil post and refrained from posting there as I have not isolated what is happening here. I suspect the coil may be getting hot due to the very high RPM count for sustained usage. While racing it does not feel like it is misfiring or cross firing, it just feels like it loses some torque. I am planning on relocating the coil further away from the exhaust and seeing if that helps with the above symptoms. They are more of a characteristic than a problem I would say. It does not affect the drivibility but it may be affecting some level of performance. This is one area I have only recently started working on. I went about 4 years on one original ignition module and have since gone through 3 more. Oddly enough, all of them were at the house just moving the car around the driveway. I have since switched to original GM modules I get from the local junk yard and have not had any issues recently.
I was waiting for that question. Good catch. The answer is simple. I spent a long time sitting in the car (while building it) trying to get the best balance of seat height, gauge height, helmet visibility, emergency evacuation egress, and general all around visibility. By keeping the Speedo and tach in their original upright positions I either had to lower them in front or behind the roll cage cross tube in order to be able to see over them with the seat mounted on the floor to keep my cg as low as possible. Both the speedo and tach have circuit boards that make them much taller than the part you actually see through the lens. Mounting them sideways gave me over an inch of extra visibility, I don't use the speedo 99% of the time unless I am discussing a particular turn with another driver (it is currently disconnected) and the tach is visible enough where it is. "Coolness" was a byproduct of necessity.
Sweet. Form follows function. Kind of ironic that having to do that wipes out the "coolness" in the original design. Sounds like it's time for an aftermarket tach. Speedo doesn't really matter much. Having to turn it so the needle points down when racing, even with the entire gauge moved up that isn't ideal.
I found that there's a vintage racing class for Fieros. I'm seriously considering setting one up for vintage racing at circuits like VIR, which isn't too far from where I live.
Do you have any tips as for how to align the car? toe in/out, camber, front vs back, etc? What's worked and what hasn't?
I have found that alignments are less of a "rule" and more about driver preference. Depending on whether you want the car to turn in easier or turn out quicker will determine if you want toe in or toe out. Negative camber on a track is pretty much a necessity as some of the earlier photos show.
Alignments are pretty easy on these cars. For the front I just max out the camber by pushing the upper arms all the way into the stops on the frame. That works out to about -1.5 degrees. For front toe I run about 1/16" toe out on each side to help it turn out a bit easier with the welded differential. The car has a tendency to under steer with the welded rear.
On the rear I run 1/16" toe in on each side and that seems to work pretty well. The earlier posts cover the camber issues as well. Tire wear, pressure rise and tread temperature is pretty even on the front. The rear is being worked on.
I have a pair of aluminum channels that I attach to the front and rear of the car with strings that connect them. It took a while to get it all set up the first time, but after the first time, setting it up is pretty easy. My buddy just bought an alignment rack at the garage he owns so I will bring it there soon to see just how close I have been.
I spent some time this past weekend looking at the links. Using the forward adjustable links in place of the solid rear links won't work as I hoped. With the forward link at maximum extension they are barely as long as the rear link. I looked up a lot of GM vehicles and they all seem to use the same adjusting collar of 4.25 to 4.75 inches. I would need one about 6" long for the idea to work.
As I mentioned earlier I now run coil overs, so I have a lot more room at the top of the strut tower to work with. I was able to max out the rear camber at -5 degrees with the option to adjust it back to around -3 degrees with the lower adjustments. I think. When I get it on the rack I will have a better idea how much travel I can expect.
I ran a compression test and have between 145-155 psi in all 6. That tells me I may have a coil overheating problem. Time to look into that a bit more as well.
Looking at trying to go to Daytona in a couple weeks. There are over 300 drivers entered so far and no other Fieros yet. Should be a busy weekend.
I run my close to stock 88 GT in the local SCCA club here in TN. I am having issues with oil pressure. Sharp lefties make the needle peg really bad. I have sort of solved this by running a quart heavy, but was wondering if you have tried any different baffeling in the oil pan? I know I could go with an Accusump, etc. but since you were on a budget, was wondering if you had any cheaper solutions.
Yes, but I did not think to take pictures. I made my own crank scraper out of aluminum sheet metal to help cut down the aeration of oil as it flies around the block. I also welded some pieces of 22 ga steel in the oil pan to minimize the sloshing inside it. Basically I built a shelf as high as I could without interfering with the crank. I bought a v8 windage tray that was cut down to fit the V6 but never used it because the bolts it came with were not correct.
I've been reading through all your guy's threads that are racing Fieros and looking for ideas. Its been great... Learned alot. A question I have is all the pictures I've seen of the steering columns, you guys have adapted the removable steering wheel, but kept the OE column, is there a reason? Is it in your rules that you have to keep the OE column? Want to maintan the tilt? Just curious.
I am doing the same thing currently, but I removed the whole steering column. I am using a 20" long (apprx), 3/4" OD (Not sure of the wall thickness, I'll check) tubing with 2 over sized hiems that fit the 3/4" shaft (done on most stockcars built today). I am using the rear (towards the steering wheel) bracket that supports the OE column and I stole another rear bracket one from my parts car to use at the front bracket that mounts to 2 studs. I then drilled holes (3/4") in them to place each hiem. This puts the 3/4" shaft almost on the identical centerline of the OE column. There is enough threads on the heims that I can adjust the wheel up and down to where it fits me the best. I then cut the end off of the OE steering column that goes to the knuckle shaft with the pinch bolts (one that goes down to the rack) and welded it to the my 3/4" shaft. I then welded the removalbe steering wheel nut (or whatever you want to call it) on the top side for for the steering wheel. Its working out really well. Looks clean, and save quit abit of weight. I'll try to post some pics as soon as I get it finished... Trying to get ready for our enduro Memorial weekend.
could be that they are conserned with front end collision. Your setup may not be ideal if you take a front end hit, the stock colum has the ability to contract under contact, and not "spear" the driver.
great thread. I put the HT Motorsports 88 rear suspension on my coupe. http://www.westshorefabrica...KitCarSuspension.htm The one in the picture about half way down. Aluminum arms thats fully adjustable with the hiem joints on both ends. Its a *itch to setup the first time, getting all the arms the correct leanght, but after that its set. Not sure what you think about it, or if it will help. It is $$$$ though.
could be that they are conserned with front end collision. Your setup may not be ideal if you take a front end hit, the stock colum has the ability to contract under contact, and not "spear" the driver.
Just an idea.
Rob[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I definatly thought about that too. I don't think its possible though. I still have the double nuckle shaft from the rack to my shaft just as the OE column had it. Its close if not at the same angle even. If the rack would come backwards in a crash the knuckles are at enough of an angle that it wouldn't move my shaft far enough, if at all, to spear the driver. Plus the end from the OE column that I welded on to the end of my shaft is larger than my 3/4" OD tubing (slided right over it) so it couldn' go any further than the front hiem. Sure it would bend it but it wouldn't allow it to get all the way back to the driver. Thats what my thinking was anyway...
------------------ WInning Isn't Everything, Wanting Too Is...
We left our stock column for a handful of reasons. First and foremost, we were under such a time crunch to make it to our first event that we didn't want to take on any projects that weren't necessary to make the car go around the track. Second, we like the idea of having the collapsible column, as I think it is a smart idea with the kind of racing we do. Third, the tilt function is actually quite nice. Our drivers range from 5'10" to 6'4", and it helps to get it adjusted not only for comfortable driving, but also for getting in and out of the car (gets the end of the spline away from the knees, haha). Ours was really wobbly when we got the car, so I ripped apart the column, and tightened those pesky external head torx screws, took out the column lock, took out the ignition cylinder and switch, and tore out all the wiring. It's a bare shell of it's former self now. Basically nothing in our column worked/wasn't broken when we were prepping the car, so it made sense to do away with everything but the tilt and steering.
I originally ran a class that did not allow modifications to the steering column, other than disabling the steering wheel lock. When I changed classes I lightened the original as much as possible. Replacing the original columns with 3/4" shafts held in place by heim joints is a pretty common thing to do as long as the replaced section does not interfere with the collapsible portions of the system. Lightening the original costs less than buying anything. The tricky part was retaining the factory bearings because of the way they are retained by the locking ring. That ring can be cut down on the perimeter because you only need the inner portion that holds the small lock ring.
Using the lower links from the kit on the link could allow more camber if you lengthen the links. Otherwise, since they attach to the original mounting points, the positive camber under hard cornering issue is probably still there. Unless I missed something. On that topic, I finally got the car on the alignment rack and was a surprised to see that my string method of aligning the front wheels was well under a degree of accuracy. Since I changed the upper strut points, the rear was out on both sides but I did not try to align the back with the strings before putting it on the rack. I settled on a little more than 3.5 degrees of negative camber and can max it out around 4.5 with the relocation.
The car will be at Daytona this weekend for our first club race since it was repaved. 434 entrants are registered. The 90 minute enduro we are in had about 80 entrants and the regionals have about 75. I think admission is only about $5-$10 if you are not a member but I a not 100% sure. If there are any Fiero guys local to Daytona feel free to stop by and say hi. It would also be great to have a contact or two in the area (with a PM) in case we have an issue with a part I did not bring. We are signed up for about 4 hours of track time so it will be a busy weekend.
Made it to Daytona a couple weeks ago. Car ran almost 4 hours and did 300 miles on the track with only about 16 miles of that under pace or caution laps. I dropped over 3 seconds off my time from my 2008 visit there but my co driver did even better than that. Amazing what having a lot more seat time can do. I had a clean weekend with no contact or spins. He spun it once on the backstretch chicane and bump drafted a couple Miata’s with no complaints. The repaved surface was a huge difference from my last visit and speeds were well over 130, and probably over 140 several times. Problem with knowing that was going from 140 to about 40 for a hard left turn onto the infield and looking at the speedometer was the least of our concerns. That is one of the most challenging parts of the course and is very intimidating. Car ran very well except for my tach not working correctly. I think relocating the ignition module to the inside may be the reason for that with the longer wires. I will have to look into that a bit and see if there are alternatives. Otherwise we used up a brand new set of front (EBC) and rear (stock) pads in 300 miles. Camber changes seemed to work out better for performance and tire wear was exceptional.
What front bearings are you running and how often do you have to change them?
John
I am running the original front bearings that had 102k+ miles on them when I started this in 2005. I check them for any play or cracks pretty much every time I pull the tires. I only race 2-4 times a year and I am guessing I have about 20-30 race hours on them. I have been looking for another set of originals in the local yards but have not found any recently. I have a second set of rear axles that have been swapped a couple times after the CV boots have gotten torn for whatever reason so each set of them has about half the hours as the fronts. I have only heard of catastrophic bearing failures on the aftermarket parts and not the originals. I have a second set of front bearings off the car, but one of them has just a few thousandths of an inch of play in it so I don't want to run that, or switch a single side. At the last LeMons race here, the one 88 Fiero in the race had apparently run in 4 24 hour races but did not complete any of them so total time was unknown. I understand LeMons cars use a smaller and harder tire than I use as well.
SCCA, Dude you so totally ROCK sportin' a Fiero around DAYTONA international speeway.... Man does that look like a blast. 140 MPH around the high banks and then hard on the brakes into the infield portion must be a hair raising experience.... I used to live down there and rode my sportybike up to the track quite a few times. We usually parked on the infield parking area and let me tell ya if you have never been there you simply would not believe how steep those banks are. When the Sportbikes run there and you are standing on the infield area and watch them whizz by all you see is the top of their helmets and the top of the bikes. It looks like little bullets with riders on them going screaming by.... Totally awesome place and I could just imagine how cool it must be to run it in the fiero... Congrats on livin' the dream man.. nice work... peace
Saw this thread linked in another thread and did not realize there were a couple more additions.
I don't have any good photos of before and after shots of the tire wear because we ran the same DOT tires at PBIR for 2 hours plus the almost 4 hours at Daytona. The first two sessions at PBIR, before the camber changes, pretty much ate up the outer half of the left rear tire more than any other position. I marked the location and date the tires were run right on the sidewall, so I can monitor wear a bit easier. The changes I made of slotting the upper mounts before Daytona made the tires wear very evenly and they are still good enough for at least one more weekend.
Running high speed on the banks is difficult to describe. The forces on your body make you feel like you are not turning and it is very comfortable. Driving on the banks at 40 mph for the pace lap is simply awkward. At 40 mph you swear you are just going to roll over and tumble down the bank. You have to actually brace your left foot on the dead pedal and physically keep your right foot sideways so you can maintain control of the pedals. It is simply unnatural to drive slow on the banking. During the checker flag lap I run about 60-75% to let things cool down and stabilize. During the last checker flag laps, I was a few hundred feet ahead of the next car and I got as close to the top of the banking and then tried making a quick lane change down the banking around 90mph or so. That was pretty intense as your body sensation is telling you something that your mind knows should not be happening. A total contradiction in perception vs reality. My co driver tried it once and called it disturbing.
When I raced there in 08 I figured out the track pretty well with the exception of turn one. I was just hitting the brakes way too early for turn one because it is deceiving, intimidating and wild all at the same time. It took me to the last few laps of the weekend to really nail that turn down where I had the car just on the edge of control during the braking zone and barely having the track left to get the turn done. It was by far the most difficult turn for me to figure out to date, but very rewarding to pull it off after that.
This is one of my favorite photos of the weekend. We arrived at the track just as the sun was rising over the backstretch grandstand. My co-driver thought it was an unusual time to stick the camera out the window of his truck and I just commented that I was someplace I wanted to be since I was 10 years old and doing something most can only dream of. I don't take moments like that for granted.
The irony is I forgot to answer this. Might have something to do with the middle of the night posts.
My best finish was the last race of the weekend. 44 cars started and I finished in 28th. The previous race 56 cars started and I finished 37th. As I think I stated earlier I was running the regionals which were 20 minute races.
My co-driver started the 90 minute enduro 37th out of 53 and finished 27th. There were 11 cars that failed to finish that one.
I have not taken the time to sort out our positions in the class we were running but we were probably right about in the middle. Since there may be a few guys who know the class rules I will just clarify that a little. Since the car is about halfway between classes ITA and EP now, we were not racing for points anyway. When this engine is retired I will probably build it to EP specs at which point running ITA is no longer a gray area. The biggest difference right now is the car (barely) meets the ITA weight of 2600 pounds with a 3/4 tank of gas (we make late enduro pit stops) but mechanically is still all IT. However, getting to that weight is simply not possible with the ITA rules. ITA also requires DOT race tires, (which we used at Daytona), where I normally run full slicks for EP regional races. EP race weight is 2500 pounds.
It appears most folks set these cars up relatively soft. Do you mind sharing what spring rate you're using, front and rear?
I'm thinking of trying to control the roll with rather radical spring rates and wondering if I'll just be chasing my tail, since this will also require the shocks are re-valved.
I understand the dynamics of autocrossing and road racing are different, and I might get away with a stiffer setup than a road racer.
this thread has great information. I just bought a Fiero that was set up for racing. Dana had done a lot of the ideas you guys have. He also did a few other things. It is an 88 notchback that had the rear GT conversion. To start I am looking at doing track days. I am working on getting it ready for next year. I will take some picture and post for you to see.
Front springs are stock Formula parts with about 1.5 coils cut off. Front shocks are Bilsteins from a 68-82 Corvette. Rear springs currently are 8" tall 300# coil overs on regular Monroe struts. The coil overs I have did not fit the Koni struts.
I have not driven the car since May and have not had the time to mess with it since then either.
Hard to believe this is my 1000th post. Never thought I would spend that much time on here.
Engine bearings. I originally ran Clevite 77 bearings and did not have much luck using them. My rod bearings were down to the copper after less than 1 hour of racing and the mains were not much better. I switched to Federal Mogul / Sealed Power after doing some research and liked the fact the FM bearings had about twice the oil groove length and that the groove extended into the other half of the bearing. The FM bearing is on the left and the Clevite is on the right. I read (IIRC on 60degreev6) that you can drill 1/8” holes in the oil groove of the main bearings to increase the oil flow to the mains and therefore to the rods as well. I believe the original recommendation was 3, 1/8” holes in each main bearing. After a couple more races and a couple more sets of bearings I decided on a slight modification of this idea and made it my own. You can see on the back side of the bearing on the right the outline of the oil passage that is cast into the block. This is the oil supply passage that pressurizes the main bearings. The current engine in the car has about 10 race weekends on it and is still running. Since the oil pump is mounted on the rear or number 4 cap, I did not add any extra holes there. On the number 3 cap I added 1 extra hole, on the number 2 cap, I added 2 holes and the number 1 cap I added 3 holes. I also run a high volume, not high pressure, oil pump as well. I figure between the FM bearings, the extra machine work of balancing the entire engine, and the oil to water cooler, the engine is no longer starving for oil and cooking bearings like it was when I started. The number 2 rod journal was typically the one that experienced the worst bearing failures before these changes. Street engines would last many miles with either bearing so I am not faulting the Clevites for what they may have been designed for. The track is not the street.
http://www.fieronews.net/fu...id=1&download_id=147 you may find this link useful, its a 60* v6 performance guide for all high rpm performance and durability mods ie: oil channeling to bearings, using sbc rods in a 2.8/3.1 ect...
We don't race from July thru September because of the heat and this year we had a limited schedule of events as well. I have not run the car since Daytona and have spent more time getting my co-driver's BMW track car ready than I have working on the Fiero. I have the Fiero advertised for sale in a few places but have not seen much interest yet.
My other reason for limited racing/selling the Fiero is that my oldest daughter will be driving in less than a year and I want to build a car that has two seats in it so we can do some Solo, Rally and teen driver events together. The cage in the Fiero has a Petty bar across the passenger side so that eliminates that as an option.
The Fiero is on its way to a new home in Central Florida. The new owner may run it in more than one club so we will probably meet again at the track. My first race in my co drivers BMW is the first weekend in April in Palm Beach, so that will be an interesting experience to run in the fastest class of the same group of cars and drivers.
Like others here who are Fieroless, I will still be around, at least until my rating bar shows up. Then I will have to see what color it is. Like some of the other posts stated, this Forum is a great group of people.
This is a great thread! I have a suggestion, why not remove the needle and faceplate from the tach and rotate it and drill new holes for the rivets and then put the needle back on accordingly? I was always under the impression that tach placement and needle orientation was very important. Just a thought.
I think I might mimic your modified crossover, and there's lots of other good tips too
Zach
Edit for did not see you sold the car
[This message has been edited by zkhennings (edited 07-18-2012).]
Nice to see the thread is still alive and appreciated. I have seen the new owner of the Fiero at a couple races but he has not gotten his license yet. I expect to see him again later in the year.
Here is a few turns at the same track just after I took over about an hour into an enduro in the new E36. It was the cars first race weekend and something just felt funny when I took over and it only took a couple laps before it broke. Throwout bearing failed showering the clutch with bearings and scrap metal. After a pit stop to confirm we were pretty well done. We started it in gear (like I did to get it off the track) and finished the race in 3rd gear. GoPro cameras are awesome.
I also ran a 79 AMC Spirit GT3 ex IMSA car a few weeks ago for my first battle with the bigger engine guys. I now understand what the car owner meant when he said, "these are full race slicks, just because you're sideways does not mean you are out of control". I never lost control of it but it was sure was sideways a few times.
The answer is simple. I spent a long time sitting in the car (while building it) trying to get the best balance of seat height, gauge height, helmet visibility, emergency evacuation egress, and general all around visibility. By keeping the Speedo and tach in their original upright positions I either had to lower them in front or behind the roll cage cross tube in order to be able to see over them with the seat mounted on the floor to keep my cg as low as possible. Both the speedo and tach have circuit boards that make them much taller than the part you actually see through the lens. Mounting them sideways gave me over an inch of extra visibility, I don't use the speedo 99% of the time unless I am discussing a particular turn with another driver (it is currently disconnected) and the tach is visible enough where it is. "Coolness" was a byproduct of necessity. 
, but thanks for bumping the thread. Lots of good info.
