Hey everyone, sorry for the longish delay, but everyone tells you how fun Maker Faires are (which they are amazing) but no one tells you that you're exhausted afterwards So as you all know I have taken my 2.8 liter engine down to bare block ( my practice run ) and this evening I have gotten my 3.4 into my garage and will be tearing that down in the next week at some point. Also I just wanted to say thanks to those of you who stopped by, it was fun meeting you!!! Anyway thank you everyone for all the support and for sticking with me the whole way!! And if there is something i need to know in order to tear an engine apart...or in order to put one back together let me know. I do not need to mess something up. Thanks again pics coming soon! -kathryn
It's best to have simple wood blocks with holes or dowels to hold / arrange valve train parts to id location, so they can be put back in the same position. Also read up on how to properly use a Torque Wrench and what the torque for each nut/bolt should be, when you go to put the engine back together. I'd advise you to get a white or yellow paint pen, so that when you finish torquing it, mark it. Before you button it up, do a visual inspection of all fasteners to be sure the are marked.
Don't know if this is a repeat, but you made the "Oddities" page in the Hemmings Blog:
Awesome advice California Kid, thanks. We used egg cartons to keep the lifters and pushrods organized, but I really like the wooden block idea. FieroFool, thanks for the reminder about the camera. That one is the Kathryn's little sisters and I need to reminder her to update her time stamp! I promised Kathryn that I would get her photos up tonight so here goes!
So we arrived in the afternoon on Friday and started to get set up, but there was a major rain storm. In the end, this is how Kathryn decided to organize her exhibit space
On Saturday morning we arrive early, and a group of summer high school tech students stopped by with their teacher to have Kathryn explain the project to them
Then it was time to start on the engine!
Dad had to get involved to show her how to set up the harmonic balancer remover
and then she went about pulling that part on her own too
Once that was done, Fox 2 Detroit stopped by to interview Kathryn as their featured maker
It was a great interview and then back to work. At that point was when Kathryn drew first blood :-)
About that time CNN showed up for their interview time
It was a VERY fun interview. We should be seeing that one soon! By that time Kathryn was getting a bit tired, so we did a little work showing how to check the lifters for concentricity and wear.
and that was how we left it at the end of day one with the engine in this condition
http://www.abc12.com/video?...42900&autostart=true It's the same video from ABC 12 with a different introduction, but Kathryn was chosen as this weeks "Good Kids". The Good Kids segment profile students doing positive things either for or in their community. So she's actually on the ABC12.com website twice. :-) BTW, they could have used Kathryn at Cedar Point, on Saturday I saw at least 5 or 6 "Cadillac Cars" that needed repair as they had red "do not use" tags on them.
[This message has been edited by mrvids (edited 07-30-2012).]
Day two started off with an opportunity to meet a few forum members! Always a fun experience. We got this picture with gen2muchwork and family :-)
Kathryn also discovered that once you get a piston removed then it makes a great sock puppet stage. Playing sock puppets can be a lot of fun, makes for good laughs....especially when it is hot, sweaty, and dirty work. A break from the seriousness is good, and she cracked us all up with this one!
But of course when you have one out you still have 5 more to go!
One of the highlights for Kathryn, I think, was showing little kids how it all works. Her she was letting a little boy spin the crank shaft to watch the remaining pistons move, and then showed him the lifters, rockers, and pushrods.
Towards the end of day two the officials from the Henry Ford stopped by to ward her the editors choice award
Then it was time to pull the crankshaft!
and that means that engine #1 was done!
The rest of the faire was talking with individuals and sharing the ups and downs of the project. Kathryn won a couple of converts. At least one person who stopped by decided to start working on their Fiero after it sitting for 4 years. Another teen stopped by with his parents and had wanted to rebuild a car, but they weren't sure. That was a 1/2 hour conversation, but Kathryn explained all the good things and some of the challenges of an endeavor like this. They decided to let him try it. Not sure what kind of car he will decide on, but Kathryn was a good ambassador for the hobby.
Finally she was able to hang out with some other makers. She really enjoyed talking to the guy from Dozer Cycles and decided that perhaps that might be a fun project for the future...perhaps something like this:
Finally, today she was able to get the 3.4 on the engine stand at home ready to take apart. Excited to get started. When the mail came today, she had another new present from our friends at 3M
and this from Kettering University, that would love to have her come to a Mechanical Engineering open house. Should be fun! It will be interesting to see if her 1st choice MIT gets in contact...lol!
I was a news reporter for 10 years and i can tell you that the media loves positive stories like yours.
Keep plugging away and good things will continue to happen.
You have me looking forward to the day when i hopefully can do a similar project with my own daughter.
Best wishes
Tony
Tony, that is an awesome photo! I'll tell you it has been so much fun as a daddy/daughter project....so much learning, so much bonding time. Amazing too to see the progress. Last night we moved the 3.4 ready to disassemble. Dad had to help a bit with the heavy lifting, but Kathryn jumped right in on setting up the engine stand and hoist, bolting on the block, etc, etc. etc. No asking "what tools do we need, what next? etc" Just jumped in and did it, over and over again you see the lessons sink in and that is just cool as a Dad. Keep us updated on the little ones progress too! :-)
Hey everyone just a quick update today I have literally just started to get the 3.4 liter apart and it's being stubborn, however hopefully by this evening it will be responding a little better Thanks for being supportive and sharing good ideas, good luck with all your projects!! -kathryn
The best thing I've found for stubborn, rusted Michigan bolts, is heat. I used to use a propane torch, but I just got a MAPP torch, seems to work faster, and you can turn the flame on and off by pressing and holding a button. Helps to wear welding gloves while using it.
I just have to say I found this thread a couple days ago from hackaday and had to join just to say how awesome what you're doing is. I've always wanted to do a build / restoration like you are. You've learned more in the past year and a half than I have since my car addiction began when I started doing my own oil changes at 18 on my own initiative (over 10 years ago). No one in my family is car friendly but since I started with the oil changes it progressed into bolting on a replacement muffler to spark plugs and wires to power steering pumps to a complete rear end swap and suspension restoration (still in progress as it's my dd). Be careful with this car stuff because it is addictive. Because of this thread I now want to restore a fiero in addition to wanting to do a restore and engine swap on my current car (96 camaro - 3800II - it wants a turbo bad). Edit: From someone in the NE for the rusted bolts I usually go the pb blaster soak and a large breaker - if the bolt breaks it probably should be replaced anyways. If its a bolt that would be hard to remove if the head came off try all other means before breaking it as stuck bolts with no head are even harder to deal with. If you ever decide to go 3800 either na or sc you can get some nice low mileage cheap engines from recent cars.
[This message has been edited by CamaroGeek (edited 08-01-2012).]
Its a real pleasure seeing your work and devotion to the rebuild of your fiero...I am positive you will achieve alot in life and I can also see great successes in your future. Keep posting for us all to see and enjoy. Maybe one day we will meet. Congratulations on your awards...
A girl restoring a Pontiac Fiero of 86, he hopes to have ready for his 16th birthday 48 COMMENTS Delco August 2, 2012 | 14:00
The story that I bring today is moving. The protagonist is called Kathryn DiMaria , a young girl who at age 12 is proposed to buy and restore an old Pontiac Fiero , 1986, in order to have the car ready for the day she turned 16, when she can drive her jewel .
It all started the day that her parents raised her desire, " Dad, Mom, can we talk for a moment? ". Kathryn had the idea quite mature, although that time was not yet 12 years of age. Project funding was not a problem, work, babysitting (babysitting) to cover expenses.
I imagine the face that had to put their parents and do not say much for the initiative itself, but the arguments presented by Kathryn to convince their viability over the project. Finally DiMaria parents supported there daughter, who spent two years working on the restoration of the Fiero .
Kathryn chose the Pontiac Fiero because "I saw a show and it seemed interesting, with a reasonable fuel consumption". The cost of the car was relatively cheap and she could afford it. Four years was enough time to fully restore the Fiero.
It would also be a great opportunity to learn how a car with a reasonable cost of learning, the pair that would serve as a distraction. Need, yes, a manual for learning to drive. When you have finished restoring a classic and ... she would pay it.
The young entrepreneur has taken the upper hand and the project is doing well at full speed. At the moment the discussion thread in the Fiero Forum occupies 19 pages, where the community has turned to Kathryn, providing solutions, ideas, and free parts .
Kathryn, you are a role model.
My admiration also for your parents for supporting your dream. ABC 12 - WJRT - Flint, MI Thanks to Javier Navarro for the track.
[This message has been edited by Wild Horse (edited 08-02-2012).]
At that point was when Kathryn drew first blood :-)
If she was wearing the mechanics gloves that someone gave her she wouldn't have suffered this injury. Within a year or two she'll start bleeding 5w30 when she gets a cut.
Kathryn, I gotta know how you do it. How do you completely disassemble a motor without getting dirt and grease all over you and under your fingernails? I got dirtier than you just by rebuilding a set of headlight motors.
Kathryn, I gotta know how you do it. How do you completely disassemble a motor without getting dirt and grease all over you and under your fingernails? I got dirtier than you just by rebuilding a set of headlight motors.
Dawn Dish Soap: Place motor in Moms Dishwasher, Add 1 small bottle Dawn Dish Soap. Cycle 3 times (First to clean, second to get rid of bubbles, third because the bubbles didn't go away). Take motor outside, Hose down well, call Airport in case any aircraft need foam for emergency landing. Place motor in the back of Dads truck, drive truck on freeway 75 miles and watch the bubbles fill the air. Motor dry and grease free.
Dawn Dish Soap: Place motor in Moms Dishwasher, Add 1 small bottle Dawn Dish Soap. Cycle 3 times (First to clean, second to get rid of bubbles, third because the bubbles didn't go away). Take motor outside, Hose down well, call Airport in case any aircraft need foam for emergency landing. Place motor in the back of Dads truck, drive truck on freeway 75 miles and watch the bubbles fill the air. Motor dry and grease free.
Hey everyone, I just want to say that I love coming back on and seeing all the responses, great ideas, and comments So as for updates my 3.4 is finally starting to come apart now that some of those bolts are off. So far I've taken off all the extra exahust manafolds, ect. and I am down to just one head, crank, and pistons. Also in terms of my first blood, I do realize that I wasn't (even if I should have been) wearing gloves but the issue was it was soooo hot, and that means I had (of course) had the set up so I was working in direct sunlight soo yeah, gloves are an issue for me. But thanks for all the advice and I will make sure to wear gloves from now on when working with dangerous artifacts (meaning all of my car pretty much)...lol. Thanks again everyone and I will be sure to try some of that...but in terms to the question i just somehow manage to only get all the dirt on the palms of my hands so it's not showing in that picture...sadly because grease is my makeup thanks for everything....including gloves -kathryn p.s. pictures coming soon
Hi Kathryn, I was just catching up on your blog, and I am curious if you have an update on the number of views. I recall is was 200,000 a couple/few months ago, and that was before the international and Spanish attention. Can you get an update?
------------------ David Lee eBusiness Manager 3M Automotive Aftermarkets Division
Hi Kathryn, I was just catching up on your blog, and I am curious if you have an update on the number of views. I recall is was 200,000 a couple/few months ago, and that was before the international and Spanish attention. Can you get an update?
You can see the number of views a thread has on the main page, this thread is up to 367,667
Well I promised Kathryn I would upload a few new photos for her. As you have already observed she torn teh 2.8 down to bare block in Detroit, and this last week we had the 3.4 on the engine stand in the garage. I would come home from work and see the progress. She worked on this one on her own a few days out in the garage. She did pretty well. We still have one head stuck that we need to pry off, but other than that it is now apart. The crank is out, and we have 3 pistons still in the bores. The bores look good as do the bearings, so we are probably looking at hot tanking the block, and shot blasting it as well. We'll have the machine shop remove the cam bearings and install new ones, hone the cylinders, clean up the pistons, port match and polish the heads as well as a valve job and we should be back in business. Ready for her to put it all together again. She also wants to put the 2.8 back together again as a practice attempt and make sure it runs. It was in good shape so we'll do new bearings on that one and gaskets. Then make sure she has it all down before putting the 3.4 together.
We know that she also wants a bigger cam (she likes the lopey idle sound) We don't sniff in Michigan so we know that we are removing the cat. With the bigger cam (260 or 272) we'll probably go with different rockers, etc. She also has a small turbo that she could fab to the build if she wanted or we could go a small NOS shot. Her goal is 200 horse or as many over that as she can talk me into. So if you have recommendations for the 3.4 build, please feel free to post away. We are looking for advice and insight. Here are a couple of photos of what she did on the first day working on her own. You'll note that the intakes, valley, water pump, starter, fuel rail, etc. are all off and all on her own. Pretty fun to see her progress and learn.
Hi Kathryn, I was just catching up on your blog, and I am curious if you have an update on the number of views. I recall is was 200,000 a couple/few months ago, and that was before the international and Spanish attention. Can you get an update?
David, if you look above any page in the thread, you will see the stats info on the thread
12 year olds and cars - Kathryn's Fiero by michhiker28 Started on : 04-18-2011 04:37 PM Replies : 748 (368211 views) Last post by : michhiker28 on 08-07-2012 08:52 PM
Right there on the replies line you see the number of posts to the thread as well as the number of views.
MH I had a head stuck on an engine one before, rather than using anything to "pry" it off, might be a better idea to use a rubber mallet to knock it loose. Quite often a repeated strike with he mallet will break whatever seal it holding without taking a chance of scaring any mating metal. Be sure to have 2 head bolts in place but not tight when striking with the mallet, no need having the head come loose and falling to the floor.
On the extra power, I would think the small turbo would be a better for her. Nitro can be very unpredictable and with all the work she is putting in this car an unpredictability could spell disaster. A single faulty valve in a nitro system could destroy her engine with her never even engaging the system.
[This message has been edited by Wild Horse (edited 08-08-2012).]
Hey look everyone! The "eBusiness Manager" doesn't know how to read a web page! Thanks for directing me to the number of view, RWDPLZ and MadMark. 367k Wow!!!
quote
Originally posted by RWDPLZ:
You can see the number of views a thread has on the main page, this thread is up to 367,667
To Kathryn and Dad, I have been reading with great interest this entire thread as it has developed. One thing I must comment on, Kathryn you have become a great ambassador of your generation to many of the older generation. Your enthusiasm and personality as shown through the posts will do you well in your future and are a compliment to your family and parents.
About your car, particularly the engine; I have always felt that the personality and skills of a car rebuilder were best showcased by the pperformance and as importantly the appearance of the engine and the engine compartment. There hasn't been a hot car around that hasn't seen its owner being asked to pop the hood.
All of us have experienced admiration and awe at a well laid out and clean engine compartment; these qualities make a car especially memorable. You are well on your way to being an icon in the future of automotive memories. I know you have many guides and helpers to assist you on your way to completing a beautiful beast. By the way,we have a tradition in our family of naming our cars. I don't recall any mention of that in the posts. Perhaps I missed it. Did you have a name for your car selected?
The patience you have shown in rebuilding your car is amazing. Cudos to you and your dad and mom and sister too. This is an inspiring story. Keep up the super work! Thanks for all the pictures too. Zep
At that point was when Kathryn drew first blood :-) If she was wearing the mechanics gloves that someone gave her she wouldn't have suffered this injury. Within a year or two she'll start bleeding 5w30 when she gets a cut.
A little blood on the engine; just giving it a transfusion I'll bet. Not a bad thing either(grin). Zep
As far as naming a car goes, I find I have to drive it and get a feel for it before it tells me the name. Just the way I see it. You are making great progress. I wish I was that far along on Any of my projects lol
Kathryn; You are the kind of kid I hope my goddaughters grow up to be. They are 9 and 6 now, and already help their dad and me a little with the work on my own fast little 80s cars (I'm an MR2 guy; please can we leave the rivalry in the past?) and his bikes and other similar projects (I think the older one is the only little girl I've ever heard of with her own working blackpowder cannon...(She's not allowed to fire it unsupervised yet, but it's hers)).
I'm glad you're getting the attention you deserve; both from the general public (Invited to Maker Faire! WOW!) but especially from your family. With backup like that, I know you'll go far. (and with this car, pretty fast, too! )
Best of luck! Misery Lou
PS: the Roller Derby women I spend most of my time with are all in awe of you, too.
Just a brief update. The heads are off and the heads are disassembled. Valves, spring, etc are out. We were going to get some photos, but then Kathryn got ready for bed and said that we will take some tomorrow. So they will be forthcoming. She also heard some exciting news today with regards to machining. She may be working with an Indy Team race engineer to do some of the machining and find some more power from the 3.4 we should be hearing a bit more on that soon as well. Pictures of the completely disassembled 3.4 coming soon.
Kathryn, since this car of yours is getting serious into power, do you have any ideas on suspension and brake mods to keep the beast under control? Power ain't power unless the wheels stay put on the pavement, as we all know. Any ideas given to beefing up the drive train? Gear ratios maybe changing on the differential since the engine has changed? Bet your dad has some secrets his Corvette taught him. I know you are focused on the engine right now... Lots to think about. I would love to hear what the group has to add...
Keep up the good work!!!
~Zep
[This message has been edited by mwzephyr (edited 08-13-2012).]
Originally posted by mwzephyr: ...do you have any ideas on suspension and brake mods to keep the beast under control?
Really she isn't getting into so much power that a freshly rebuilt stock suspension can't handle it. New joints, poly bushings, and new struts and shocks go a long way on these cars, and I think it is safe to assume that those will be done. Definitely want to upgrade the cradle bushings when you re-install it as well (aluminum or poly). Personally, I would throw a set of Eibach lowering springs and upgraded sway bars on there as well...but the stiffer ride might not be a good match for those Michigan roads (you drive on bumpy straight roads...I drive on smooth twisty mountain roads). The 86 SE did at least come with the WS6 springs. If she wants to get deeper into upgrades than that, there are plenty of options available...and plenty of people here to point her in the right direction.
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