I decided to make a new post for my swap instead of leaving it on my other post. the first part of my swap is on page 4 of my other post https://www.fiero.nl/forum/F...L/081719-4.html#p120 but i'll will restate some of it here as well.
[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 06-26-2011).]
so far i have the motor / trans and have started the dissembling process. here is a pic of the engine and trans when i got it here are pics of the current condition of the engine and trans
the engine is almost taken apart. all that is left is to take the timing cover off and then i can start replacing some of the parts. parts that i plan on replacing are gaskets, water pump, rebuild oil pump since its part of the timing cover, spark plugs and spark plug wires.
this is what i plan on doing for my swap: replace parts on engine [stated above], get new fuel pump with the 12 gallon tank i plan to put in with this swap, use the cradle that i will be getting from Matt to put the engine together on, rewire the wire harness so that it looks better and that it works with the fiero body harness, buy or make engine mount and low alt bracket with dog bone, i also plan on having the trans looked at to make sure it in good working condition.
I'm here to trash talk 3800SC's because I have a V8! Grrrrrr!
Bring it on Matt
------------------ MINNESOTA MAFIA Real men get blown If you're going to run your mouth make sure the proof isn't all over the net that you're full of sh!t. 87 GT MP-112 powered, 3800 Supercharged on 19's 372 rwhp & tuning____88 GT T-top 1 of very few, 000,204.1 miles 87 GT custom______90 Grand prix STE Turbo_____2007GSXR 1000 Nitrous is like a hot chick with an STD, Ya want to hit it, but are afraid of the consequences. IF YOU AIN'T BREAKING STUFF..................IT AIN'T MODDED ENOUGH If your'e not living on the edge..........you're taking up too much room. Best Fiero mounts available
noun 1. the evening meal, often the principal meal of the day. 2. any light evening meal, especially one taken late in the evening: an after-the-theater supper. –adjective 3. of or pertaining to supper: the supper dishes. 4. for, during, or including supper: a supper party.
So... Where does the steak and potatoes get put in at?
[This message has been edited by Khw (edited 06-23-2011).]
noun 1. the evening meal, often the principal meal of the day. 2. any light evening meal, especially one taken late in the evening: an after-the-theater supper. –adjective 3. of or pertaining to supper: the supper dishes. 4. for, during, or including supper: a supper party.
So... Where does the steak and potatoes get put in at?
Oh wow, I didn't even notice that. HA, better fix that Alex!!
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-25-2011).]
wow, i really need to reread things that i type, guess i was just typing too fast. I'll see if i can get it fixed so it reads Alex's 3800 Super Charged Swap
wow, i really need to reread things that i type, guess i was just typing too fast. I'll see if i can get it fixed so it reads Alex's 3800 Super Charged Swap
You are able to change it yourself, just click edit for the first post, and you can change the title in there.
well i still haven't got the name fixed, but i was able to do more work on the engine. so far i cleaned up all the parts on the engine. i also got my cradle from Matt yesterday. hopefully sometime i will be putting parts on to it but i first need to get the engine and tans ready to go on. here are some pics of what i have done so far.
super charger before cleaning [fuel rail was cleaned before]
took off timing cover
crank pulley Matt's old cradle that i'm now using super charger after cleaning
i plan on getting the super charger, valve covers, and fuel rail painted but i'm not sure what color scheme i'm gonna go with. all I do know is that the paint job will consist of the colors candy apple red and some sort of silver or chrome.
well yesterday i took the parts over to Jeans to get painted. not sure what he plans on doing with them but what ever he does should look awesome. along with that i also started putting the engine back together. got the timing cover bake on with new timing chain guide and new gaskets. crank pulley is back on along with water pump. here are some pics of what is done so far.
new water pump
needed to bolt on another leg to the engine to keep it stable when putting crank pulley back on
Cool to see someone doing one of these at the same time. Take your time now to clean and paint. It is a pain but later you will be rewarded. Look at my before/after below to get some ideas. Also remove that rear (front in 3800 car) and port it. It has huge restrictions compared to the other one. Keep it coming!
Two weeks ago;
Now after some paint and clear:
Manifold; Before;
after:
------------------ Red: TPI V8 + 6-Speed White: 3800SC auto 304rwHP/366rwTQ
Cool to see someone doing one of these at the same time. Take your time now to clean and paint. It is a pain but later you will be rewarded. Look at my before/after below to get some ideas. Also remove that rear (front in 3800 car) and port it. It has huge restrictions compared to the other one. Keep it coming!
The white fastback is getting some love huh? That black & gold scheme on the 3800SC looks great!
wow two Alex's with 3800 SCs. your's looks to be in really good shape and the paint job looks very nicely done. I'm guessing yours is a series 3 engine by the type of super charger. also did you do any mods to your engine or is it mostly stock? just wondering because so far i haven't really done any mods to mine other than the low mount alt for the dog bone which i haven't made the bracket for it yet but plan on making soon. at this point i'm just hoping mine will run when it's done. by the way, about the manifolds, i was just in the process of porting them out when you posted. i went a little further and ported the ports on the engine and the manifolds. figured i would do this since until i get the trans rebuilt and some other parts for the engine i really didn't have much else to do at the moment. below are pics of what i ported.
i wasn't sure what to do with this one because it was already ported to the gasket but it had an internal weld going around it which makes that bump that goes around so i just grounded it down a little and smoothed it out so it wasn't such a restriction.
by the way, my plan for the exhaust system is to use the original 3800 exhaust system and make a custom system that goes behind the trunk. something like this
[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 07-05-2011).]
Originally posted by fiero al: wow two Alex's with 3800 SCs. your's looks to be in really good shape and the paint job looks very nicely done. I'm guessing yours is a series 3 engine by the type of super charger. also did you do any mods to your engine or is it mostly stock? just wondering because so far i haven't really done any mods to mine other than the low mount alt for the dog bone which i haven't made the bracket for it yet but plan on making soon. at this point i'm just hoping mine will run when it's done. by the way, about the manifolds, i was just in the process of porting them out when you posted. i went a little further and ported the ports on the engine and the manifolds. figured i would do this since until i get the trans rebuilt and some other parts for the engine i really didn't have much else to do at the moment. below are pics of what i ported.
... i wasn't sure what to do with this one because it was already ported to the gasket but it had an internal weld going around it which makes that bump that goes around so i just grounded it down a little and smoothed it out so it wasn't such a restriction. ... by the way, my plan for the exhaust system is to use the original 3800 exhaust system and make a custom system that goes behind the trunk. something like this
... [/IMG]
Yes it is a series 3. Not too many mods. Just a 3.6 pulley and N* TB. Anything after that gets very expensive (rockers, cam, IC). When I took out that rear manifold (front in Fiero) I almost puke. I was going to buy the ZZP P-log but after looking closer at the dyno chart I think it was not really worth $200 for near 10hp way up. If I decide to mod further later on I will just go with headers. So I just ported the stockers. I'm right now baking some ceramic coating I did. You are very brave to port the heads mounted. I would be very scare to get any shaving stuck in there But they look nice. For exhaust I plan to do just what you showed. Right now I have a very crapy system that came with the car which I will use just to get the car moving. But it won't last long. Keep it coming. I still have so many little details and things to do. Everything takes so much time...
[This message has been edited by Alex4mula (edited 06-30-2011).]
If he ported them with the heads upside-down like that I wouldn't worry about it too much, plus it just blows out when the car is started anyway. Intake is one I would be concerned about. Both look really nice.
But I thought you were going to use the stock Fiero exhaust and run a y-pipe, looks like you changed your mind for the better. It's harder to fit a full-size system back there with cat and muffler if you don't cut the trunk. Now I'm not saying cut the trunk, not the best option. You saw how tight my exhaust was, and it's pretty short as is.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-30-2011).]
If he ported them with the heads upside-down like that I wouldn't worry about it too much, plus it just blows out when the car is started anyway. Intake is one I would be concerned about. Both look really nice.
But I thought you were going to use the stock Fiero exhaust and run a y-pipe, looks like you changed your mind for the better. It's harder to fit a full-size system back there with cat and muffler if you don't cut the trunk. Now I'm not saying cut the trunk, not the best option. You saw how tight my exhaust was, and it's pretty short as is.
it was upside down when i ported it [as in the picture]. i had it upside down for when i was working on the lower end of the engine so i just left it there that way since i started the headers before finishing the lower end. i also stuffed cloth into the ports so the metal shavings wouldn't get down into the valves and after i was done i vacuumed it out so it should be clean out. by the way i didn't port the intake ports. i only did the exhaust. I didn't think that the intake ports needed it plus it would have been harder to keep the top end clean of shavings.
the reason i went with the other system idea is that it would be easier to make and i wouldn't have to modify one manifold to flow in the right direction. since in order to get the 3800 system to work with the fiero system i would have to make a custom y pipe and i would have to fix the one exhaust pipe coming out of cylinder 6 so that it wouldn't flow into the block off plate. if i left it alone with it the way it was it would create back pressure. so i felt it would work out better if i made a system that worked with the 3800 system. besides the only other way to get it to work is to get a set of headers that work with the fiero system and i don't have the money to buy them at the moment.
by the way i have a question about the connecting rod bearings. i'm wondering if i should replace my rod bearings or leave them. reason is that them seem to have a little slack in them side to side but when i check them with a feeler gauge they were still in the acceptable range [ 0.003 - 0.015 is acceptable according to the repair manual for rod side clearance] the readings i got were between 0.009 - 0.010 . so i guess they are still good for a while [at least the first start up] but i figure that i would need to replace them later down the road
[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 07-05-2011).]
yes it was upside down when i ported it. i also stuffed cloth into the ports so the metal shavings wouldn't get down into the valves and after i was done i vacuumed it out so it should be clean out. by the way i didn't port the intake ports. i only did the exhaust. I didn't think that the intake ports needed it plus it would have been harder to keep the top end clean of shavings.
No, I meant I would be more concerned over getting shaving in the intake ports then the exhaust ports, the intake doesn't need porting with your stock build.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 06-30-2011).]
really haven't done much lately other then check the other connecting rod bearings which don't look to bad other than a little discoloring on the top part of the bearing that touches the bearing cap. other than that the bearings are smooth and have no scratch marks or pitting. i guess i might as well replace them since i have them off and that they still have a little wear on them [about .010 spacing side to side on crankshaft]. below are pics of one of the bearings
im not sure if this is bad or normal for this area of the bearing. no scratch marks or pitting on the surface there seems to be a little wear on the upper bearing surfaces up by the bolt holes. its like this on the other ones as well. same goes for the discoloring as shown in the first pic
ether way, i plan on replacing them since i have them out. the only question is should i just get the standard bearing set or is there a different set i need to use with an engine with wear or high millage?
along with this i plan on ordering some other parts such as the new fuel pump. the fuel pump i plan on using is the EP376 [also known as E3270] Airtex Master. should be good enough for what i plan on using it for.
[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 07-05-2011).]
Standard bearings are what's needed if the journals on the crank are ok.
And that blue is not normal, on the back side of the bearing and on the rod cap, it looks like the bearings at some point were spinning in cap/rod, and got hot enough to leave blue streaks.
Edit: Now I'm wondering what mine look like on my 4.9 since I never bothered to look at them.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-05-2011).]
just got back from my graduation party down at my grandparent's place. had a good time down there seeing all my relatives. other then that i haven't really done anything with the engine but i plan on working on it sometime this week.
well i got an update on my painted parts. all parts are at this moment are painted silver for a base coat. they will be getting painted the candy apple red color scheme shortly. not sure what that scheme will be but it should look good. here is a pic of what they look like at the moment.
i did find out that someone did try to take the pulley off since there were hit marks on the one side of the pulley as if hey were trying to use a hammer and were trying to hit the pulley off. so now i have to get a new pulley. i guess it wasn't that noticeable till the pulley got paint on it. not sure if i will get the smaller pulley or a normal one.
along with this, i also decided to have the heads cleaned on the engine. i'm going to have Napa give the heads a clean up job. below are pics of what the heads look like when i took them off the engine.
the cylinder walls are in good condition. they still have the cross hatching on them
after i sent the heads to Napa, i found out by them that one of the valve springs was broken. i guess i didn't see it when it was all put together. ether way it's getting new springs and gaskets. i should be getting the heads back sometime next week along with new bearings and injector O rings.
well i got my painted parts today and they look awesome! the color scheme is really cool and unique. the only thing is that the red is not candy apple red. even still it looks good as is. i also got the gas tank and expansion tank back from paint. they also look good. below are pics of what they look like
along with this, i also got my heads back. they look like they just came from the factory. they got new springs and a valve job. i also got my new connecting rod bearings, head gaskets, head bolts, and injector O rings. below are pics of the cleaned up heads and one of the new bearings.
new bearing in the cap
here is the broken valve spring
[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 07-19-2011).]
Those head look really nice, looks like it was worth the money. And those new bearings are nice and shiny! Much better then the blue ones that were in it before.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-20-2011).]
along with this, i also got my heads back. they look like they just came from the factory. they got new springs and a valve job. i also got my new connecting rod bearings, head gaskets, head bolts, and injector O rings. below are pics of the cleaned up heads and one of the new bearings.
Throw some 1.9 rockers on there and you'll B set. Hope you got the 90# LS6 springs?
the guy who did the work on the heads just put new OEM style springs on and the rockers are still factory. at this point i'm not worried about making more power out of this engine. so far i spent too much money just getting replacement parts and getting parts cleaned and painted for the engine. since my budget is low now, i decided to not rebuild the trans since every thing else so far has been in good condition. plus it was replaced at some point or another. so i'm only going to spend money on what is need to get the set up in the car and running. i still need the fuel pump, computer reprogrammed, new supper charger pulley, probably new mounts. and change over the connectors so that they will work with the fiero harness. along with the shortage of money, i also running low on time with college coming up.
ADD: i had the guy i knew at napa look at one of the old connecting rod bearings and he said that was normal for that kind of millage. i also checked the dimensions of the old bearings and they were very close to the new bearings. so the old bearings were still ok to be used but since i got the new ones already i figured i just them. better to be safe then sorry i guess. that and they were only $35 for the new bearings.
[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 07-20-2011).]
I wouldn't want to use those old bearings personally. If you are this far it would be a bad idea not to change them, even more so if they are blue. My dad's 3.4 had 130k when we tore it down, and the bearings were not blue. They did have wear spots and scratches in them however. Purple spots (if there is any) are worse, since that is even hotter.
I know you are under a time crush, but you can't rush engine swaps like this. You will spend more time fixing, adjusting things later then if you do everything now while its out. I made that mistake with the 88 cradle, I should have done it the first time.
[This message has been edited by mattwa (edited 07-20-2011).]
the guy who did the work on the heads just put new OEM style springs on and the rockers are still factory. at this point i'm not worried about making more power out of this engine. so far i spent too much money just getting replacement parts and getting parts cleaned and painted for the engine. since my budget is low now, i decided to not rebuild the trans since every thing else so far has been in good condition. plus it was replaced at some point or another. so i'm only going to spend money on what is need to get the set up in the car and running. i still need the fuel pump, computer reprogrammed, new supper charger pulley, probably new mounts. and change over the connectors so that they will work with the fiero harness. along with the shortage of money, i also running low on time with college coming up.
ADD: i had the guy i knew at napa look at one of the old connecting rod bearings and he said that was normal for that kind of millage. i also checked the dimensions of the old bearings and they were very close to the new bearings. so the old bearings were still ok to be used but since i got the new ones already i figured i just them. better to be safe then sorry i guess. that and they were only $35 for the new bearings.
I know what you mean on the $$$. My complete dropout engine\trans\assessories were $750. I thought it was going to B kinda cheap....kinda , thats until the replacement parts, the gaskets, performance parts, look good parts, hoses. ...bla bla bla. $ $ $... pre made conversion parts $$$.
I may be able to help you out on that PCM programming..... If you have a 98 PCM you will be able to run it just fine if you don't mind looking at the ses light with some codes set.
I know what you mean on the $$$. My complete dropout engine\trans\assessories were $750. I thought it was going to B kinda cheap....kinda , thats until the replacement parts, the gaskets, performance parts, look good parts, hoses. ...bla bla bla. $ $ $... pre made conversion parts $$$.
I may be able to help you out on that PCM programming..... If you have a 98 PCM you will be able to run it just fine if you don't mind looking at the ses light with some codes set.
i have a 1999 buick regal setup [engine, trans and PCM]. so your saying the current setup should work with out the PCM being re tuned? the only thing i should notice is check engine light being on with some codes? if that's the case, then i can wait to get the PCM reprogrammed. since it's not hard to get to, i can wait till i have more time to work on it. same with the wire-harness. i was going to redo the harness so that it looked better but because of time, i'm going to just change the connectors so that it will work with the fiero. i will have to take it off later and redo it.
[This message has been edited by fiero al (edited 07-20-2011).]
well i got my painted parts today and they look awesome! the color scheme is really cool and unique. the only thing is that the red is not candy apple red. even still it looks good as is. i also got the gas tank and expansion tank back from paint. they also look good. below are pics of what they look like
...
That came out really nice. Looks so much better than just painting all one solid color.
i have a 1999 buick regal setup [engine, trans and PCM]. so your saying the current setup should work with out the PCM being re tuned? the only thing i should notice is check engine light being on with some codes? if that's the case, then i can wait to get the PCM reprogrammed. since it's not hard to get to, i can wait till i have more time to work on it. same with the wire-harness. i was going to redo the harness so that it looked better but because of time, i'm going to just change the connectors so that it will work with the fiero. i will have to take it off later and redo it.
I am not sure about a 1999 regal PCM but I am pretty sure about a 98 GTP PCM will work. You just need to bypass the VATS on the later PCMs 99+ until you start modding. The closer you stay stock the less of a need for a custom tune. I suggest redoing the harness or buying a premane one for ~$400. I hear it is not that difficult. Unloom it, Plug everything in, remove the extra wires you dont want, add extray wires you need(Fiero), loom it back and done.
But they look nice. For exhaust I plan to do just what you showed. Right now I have a very crapy system that came with the car which I will use just to get the car moving. But it won't last long. Keep it coming. I still have so many little details and things to do. Everything takes so much time...
It's harder to fit a full-size system back there with cat and muffler if you don't cut the trunk. Now I'm not saying cut the trunk, not the best option. You saw how tight my exhaust was, and it's pretty short as is.
