Just wanted to say that it is people like you that keep the Fiero hobby alive by sharing their knowledge and skills.
Seeing from what you started with, I am amazed with the results. Not everybody has the skills and patience for doing the quality work you have done. You clearly are a meticulous guy and I wish you the best with selling these kits.
Well my deposit is made and I have put my order in for one of these awesome looking 308's. I plan on taking plenty of pictures of the build and will post them to show how the kit goes together. I will probably do my own tread just so Rob can keep his original build showing all the work he has done to make this possible. Thanks Rob
I am totally impressed with your work. Not many people appreciate the work that goes into what you are doing. Well documented and shows what really goes into having good moulds to work from.
Hell if I had the money I would be buying a body myself.
But out of interest how small a shipping crate can you get a body into. I have someone over here who has been asking me where to get a good 308 body.
Next on the agenda was to attach the last rear louver piece to the hood (as it should have been to begin with in my opinion). This was pretty strait forward. I just lined them up and glued them in then. I had to do a bit of trimming to get them to fit halfway decent. Once they were in it was just a matter of some creative bondo work. I made some false seams around them where they meet the hood so it will appear like they are separate pieces though they will actually be part of the hood.
The trail fitting was pretty bad. The head light covers didn't fit right and the rear louver piece was a mess.
My next major task was to get the head light covers to fit properly. As you can see from the following pic they were about 3/8" too narrow and the front did not line up correctly with the front of the car. The angles were different.
I started building up the sides and the front with bondo (an obscene amount of bondo) and sanding to get the right width and the correct angle on the front.
After a ton of bondo and sanding I finally got them fitting nicely.
Like most every other part on this car the side window louvers didn’t fit right. They were about 1/2” too short in length and height. They also had a slight curve on the bottom edges. Bondo to the rescue again! I built them up on the front and the bottom and after several applications and sanding I got them fitting up pretty well
Initial fit
After building up with bondo
The finished product
On the louvered sail panels, heres a quick easy tip. Lay them face down on a table and use a grinder on the high spots to open the louvers up. Finish with sanding (also on the inside) with a block of wood and 80 / 180 to smooth it. When installed, just like the real 308, you can see out thru the finished slits. Thats what I did to my 308 kit. Took all of one hour to finish them for paint. The more material you grind off, the wider the openings. I was happy with about 1/4"
I dont have any close up pics of them. Like I explained above, I just ran a grinder across the high spots of the louvers (on the backside). The more you grind off the bigger the slits. Then when you mount them on the quarters, you can see out thru those slits. The front of the louvers look exactly the same...but with slits at the bottom of each louver.
Don't expect to see anything out of slotted louvers...for several reasons:
1. the B-pillar is behind more than half of the width of them; but more importantly
2. you would need a curved rear window like the MR2 or like the real 308. Without the proper window, the inner part of the sail panel is a solid piece of fiberglass which makes seeing through the louver installed on the outside of the sail panel impossible.
Edit to add photo:
Mine are fully slotted since they're metal slats, not fiberglass... but if you look carefully, there's no way you'd ever be able to see through them since the inner sail panel is in the way.
[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 12-11-2012).]
I could see out of most of it except obviously what was blocked. Mine had the OEM Fiero glass in the rear and sail. Maybe your kit didnt have the sail cut out. My donor was an SE. Someone here has my car now, maybe they can get a photo. I wouldnt have had any reason to cut them open if you couldnt see thru it. The rear half of those louvers is unusable on a real Ferrari too.....the gas filler door is behind one side.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-11-2012).]
I could see out of most of it except obviously what was blocked. Mine had the OEM Fiero glass in the rear and sail. I wouldnt have had any reason to cut them open if you couldnt see thru it.
Well, I for one would really like to see how you did that. The "flying buttress" or sail panel on the 308 is like a pyramid in cross section (see drawing below), not just a simple outer pane of glass like on the Fiero GT sail panel.
The inboard vertical wall of the sail panel that rises up from the 308 decklid encloses the area that would normally give you an unobstructed view out the sail panels on the Fiero G. That wall runs all the way back to the trailing edge of the decklid. That is why the real 308 has a curved rear window... to open up the inboard wall of the buttress and allow a view out the quarter window and louvers. It's not enough to simply cut out an opening on the outboard wall and install the louvers. Here's what that looks like:
As mentioned before, the B-pillar blocks off most of what's behind the louvers and what little isn't blocked off, is closed off by the inboard wall of the buttress.
i have seen pics of stock Mera with see thru passenger side slats straight from the factory....i got a pic somewhere
*EDIT* found them.....this first one is on an '88 Mera owned by member Reholmes.
and this one is on my MeraX notice from the inside if mine were slotted i would be able to see out them. but as with the 1986 Mera prototype they at Corporate Concepts had not looked that far in the future
the black tape has been found to be a CC/Mera OEM trait.....we all have it.
[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 12-12-2012).]
OK, I see it now. It's interesting how CC chose to black out the window area under the raised decklid and left clear the part of the rear window hidden by the sail panel. Your photos do show how it might be possible to see through the back half of the louvers if you were at the correct viewing angle, but is it possible to see through either louver while in the driver's seat?
Its been 8 years or so since I had it, I cant honestly remember if I could see out of the front or rear part of it. I do know I could see a car in my blind spot thru it....which was the reason I did it. It wasnt like looking out an unobstructed window, but I could see if something was there.
In his photo above, you can clearly see the rear window glass....which means you could see thru it from drivers seat.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-12-2012).]
OK, I see it now. It's interesting how CC chose to black out the window area under the raised decklid and left clear the part of the rear window hidden by the sail panel. Your photos do show how it might be possible to see through the back half of the louvers if you were at the correct viewing angle, but is it possible to see through either louver while in the driver's seat?
I can see reasonably well out of the passenger side but it is more difficult to see much out of the driver's side. That is why I installed a camera on two of the Meras.
Bob that's what I thought too, but as hnthomps pointed out with his photos, the driver looks through the section of the rear window that's hidden behind the flying buttress. In other words, he has to look inside the tunnel formed by the inboard and outboard surfaces of the sail panel. I'm not convinced the driver would see much given the angles, but it is possible.
Edit to add marked up photo:
[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 12-12-2012).]
Your kit is obviously quite a bit different than mine. I didnt have a boxed in sail panel. The louvers on mine also had the 'cabinet' key locks on the rear corner so it could be opened (although I dont know why). Mine also didnt have the seam or simulated seam on the top and sides of the sail panel like a real Ferraris hatch outline...it was smooth all the way to the top roof seam. My roof spoiler was mounted with studs thru the sail and nuts you put on with a long extension from below behind the rear window area.
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Your kit is obviously quite a bit different than mine. I didnt have a boxed in sail panel.
Yes that's true mine is not a Mera-based kit it's a Stinger based kit, but even still, all the Mera-based kits I've seen have a boxed in sail panel. Are you sure you don't have any pictures of yours? I'm curious what that area looked like.
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Mine also didnt have the seam or simulated seam on the top and sides of the sail panel like a real Ferraris hatch outline...it was smooth all the way to the top roof seam.
The seam is a characteristic of the Stinger kit only.
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison: The louvers on mine also had the 'cabinet' key locks on the rear corner so it could be opened (although I dont know why).
The gas filler pocket takes up the entire space aft of the driver's B-pillar on the Stinger (as on the real 308). That's why using this particular window louver trick wouldn't work on mine:
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison: My roof spoiler was mounted with studs thru the sail and nuts you put on with a long extension from below behind the rear window area.
I still have a hard time envisioning what the inboard side of your sail panels looked like if they weren't boxed in but were wide enough at the top to mount the wing. That wing needs a good inch or so of width along the top of the sail panel to mount to. Do you recall who made your kit?
[This message has been edited by Bloozberry (edited 12-13-2012).]
These are all the only others I have I found. Maybe someone knows whos kit it is. I bought the parts at Carlisle so I never knew. The headlights are my own design fixed ones. It came with the typical pop up louvers. There was an 'inside' to the sail panels, but they didnt go all the way up to the window. You could squeeze a hand inside. I might have been seeing thru the front or middle of the louver enough to see something was there. My memory is not that good that I can honestly remember from that long ago. Whoever bought my car could show pics if hes still on here or still has it. That far back, it could have went thru 3 or 4 owners since me. Anyway, its not that important to keep making a huge issue out of. I cut mine out so I could see my blind spot, if it dont work on yours OK. I know what I did to my own car that I built...no one else does.
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-14-2012).]
My Mera still has the correct Corporate Concept side louvers like Richard's car. I can see out of the passenger louver looking thru the back window. Visibility is not as good as the GT sail panel, but compared to the blocked off aftermarket louvers it is great. Bloozeberry's louvers are very nice but the angles are too severe to allow much visibiltiy compared to the more open design on the Mera side louvers.
I still want to install a back up camera though.........
The correct ones are miles better than the cheap fiberglass rip offs. Mine was a daily, year round driver and didnt go to the extents some do. I didnt have any problem seeing out the back, my prob area was the blind spots. Id had more use for 2 cameras looking out the quarters from behind the louvers. I have done camera replacement for outside mirrors on a few new Lambos for customers. Removed the mirrors and had a plastic fairing just big enough to hold a tiny pinhole cameras. You could see your own rear wheel clear out to right beside you (over 90*)
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-14-2012).]
A camera for the drivers side louver would be nice. That side is completely obscured as far as I am concerned. I am using small rectangular convex mirrors stuck on the Vitaloni's to be able to see what is close by. Are there camera display screens for cars that can show two images at the same time? (One for each side)
Roger, whoever made your car did a real nice job. i think they scaled down the rear clip to get the quarter window to look in proportion. Here are 2 pics of a real 308; all i did was photoshop out the rear hatch seam on the 2nd pic. To me, the quarter window looks smaller in the second pic - the thick trailing roof buttress makes the quarter window look small and in a different proportion.
i think that Rob's quarter window might be enlarged to make it look more proportioned.
Am i making sense
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 12-15-2012).]
Looking at it another way, let's add a rear hatch seam to your car
To me, adding the hatchline makes your quarter window appear to be bigger.
I'd be interested to see an authentic 308 quarter window grill over top of a mera fake quarter window grill. I'm thinking the mera grill is bigger than the oem ferrari one (?)
[This message has been edited by PaulJK (edited 12-15-2012).]
Originally posted by Rick 88: Bloozberry's louvers are very nice but the angles are too severe to allow much visibiltiy compared to the more open design on the Mera side louvers.
Thanks Rick. The Stinger kit came with fiberglass louvers that were terrible so I brazed my own out of some aluminum.
I purposely made the slats at a very shallow angle for two reasons. The first was that the available depth for the slats that cover the B-pillar is very shallow so to avoid them sticking out like sore thumbs, I either had to to make them very narrow over the B-pillar or use wider slats at a shallow angle. The other reason is that there is no way to see through the driver's side louver anyways on the Stinger since the gas filler pocket fills up the entire area behind the B-pillar. If I couldn't look out, then I didn't want people to be able to look in between the slats to see the B-pillar either.
quote
Originally posted by rogergarrison: Maybe someone knows whos kit it is.
Roger, your car was either a Mera or a Mera clone (Fejer perhaps), but more likely a clone if you bought the parts and built it since you could not buy Meras in kit form (at least to my knowledge).
quote
Originally posted by PaulJK: I'd be interested to see an authentic 308 quarter window grill over top of a mera fake quarter window grill. I'm thinking the mera grill is bigger than the oem ferrari one (?).
The real 308's door glass is an 1" or more shorter than the Fiero door glass so the louver's forward edge is also shorter by that amount. I'll be visiting a friend of mine who owns a real 308 over Christmas and will take some measurements of the louvers on his car and post them here.
My Mera still has the correct Corporate Concept side louvers like Richard's car. I can see out of the passenger louver looking thru the back window. Visibility is not as good as the GT sail panel, but compared to the blocked off aftermarket louvers it is great. Bloozeberry's louvers are very nice but the angles are too severe to allow much visibiltiy compared to the more open design on the Mera side louvers.
I still want to install a back up camera though.........
mine too.....if i could get more light in there i could see my temp gauge better, even
for the drivers blind spot i just stick my head out the window....and yell, "Comming thru!" i have a back up camera tho.....real nice to have. wish i could get one of them RV mirrors with the moniter built in.....best of both worlds
[This message has been edited by batousai666 (edited 12-15-2012).]
Roger, whoever made your car did a real nice job. i think they scaled down the rear clip to get the quarter window to look in proportion. Here are 2 pics of a real 308; all i did was photoshop out the rear hatch seam on the 2nd pic. To me, the quarter window looks smaller in the second pic - the thick trailing roof buttress makes the quarter window look small and in a different proportion.
i think that Rob's quarter window might be enlarged to make it look more proportioned.
Thanks, I did it all by myself on an 86SE. I also did body and paint work for the local Ferrari, Porsche and Lambo dealers and private individuals. I built a ton of other kitcars too from Cobras and GT40s, to Ferrari and Lambos for myself and others. I had the custom made replica wheels built to correct offset too. They were deeper dish though. I had 2" offset in front and 4" in rears. I had a friend with a real 308 have me build my style of fixed headlites in his too because he liked the look so well. No more pop up problems. I also used Vitelloni mirrors too. You cant see the seats too well, but they were done with 77 Ferrari 3 striped covers. The black top gave it a GTS 'look'.
this is a real 77 308, not mine. but these are the covers used
[This message has been edited by rogergarrison (edited 12-15-2012).]
This is what you can see from the driver's seat on a stock Mera with the sail slots cut out. This does help a bit with the blind spot on the passenger side of the car. I also have a couple of slots in the sail on the driver's side, but it is not usable for anything useful.
Actuall both pictures are correct. Dan's pic was taken at an angle looking over your shoulder in the driver's seat. Nelson's picture was taken at a different angle from the passenger seat at a much closer distance to the window. The passenger side louver view is good enough to keep you out of trouble.
Actuall both pictures are correct. Dan's pic was taken at an angle looking over your shoulder in the driver's seat. Nelson's picture was taken at a different angle from the passenger seat at a much closer distance to the window. The passenger side louver view is good enough to keep you out of trouble.
Slight correction here since my picture was taken from the driver's seat yesterday afternoon. Yes, you do have to turn your head to look through the louvers but you can see some things when you do. I find it most useful when backing out of a parking slot. BTW, I also have a 130 degree rear view camera mounted on the license plate that I sometimes use to see traffic behind and to the side of me. I can see out of the small rear window fairly well but my wife is not tall enough to do so very well and that is really why I added the rear view camera.
Actuall both pictures are correct. Dan's pic was taken at an angle looking over your shoulder in the driver's seat. The passenger side louver view is good enough to keep you out of trouble.
yulp....no zoom, camera held to my face, all i do is look over, naturally. with a little lean i should be able to see well if i had slats
Now take the above pic and take off a couple of inches of the front of the inner sail and it will increase the view quite a bit. I could squeeze my hand between the window and sail to get to the nuts on the spoiler.
The rear half of those louvers is unusable on a real Ferrari too.....the gas filler door is behind one side.
