i see there are 3 different bell houseings. i am thinking of swaping and was wondering what houseing i need. atm i am useing the 2.5 but plan to swap in the distant future. ( not sure what engine at this time ) .as for the F23 i plan on useing either 3.95 Final Drive out of the HHR or the 3.84 Final Drive for Chevrolet Cobalt. but need to know what bolt pattern i have. ( i think it is the 60* ) but want confermation before i put out any money.
You will want a bell housing out of a cavalier, sunfire, or grand am from 2000 to 2005. They have a 3.94 final drive, but if you want a 3.84 or 3.63 out of a cobalt the transmissions will split and bolt from on bell housing to another.
------------------ 86GT, 3800SC, GETRAG, true duals, 3.4 pulley, comp VS cam, zzp match flow injectors, zzp power log, WCF air intake, ARP bolts, comp lifters and push rods, 90# springs, SI stainless valves, aero-force scantech meter. Here is my build thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/122548.html
[This message has been edited by BlownFiero86 (edited 09-03-2012).]
You will want a bell housing out of a cavalier, sunfire, or grand am from 2000 to 2005. They have a 3.94 final drive, but if you want a 3.84 or 3.63 out of a cobalt the transmissions will split and bolt from on bell housing to another.
Thanks. that makes things less expensive if i go witht he 3.94 final. alltho the lower gears will increase the mpg. hrm - what to do, what to do.... more pondering required.
[This message has been edited by My84 (edited 09-03-2012).]
Speed Sensor The Getrag F23 uses the newer 24,000 ppm magnetic hall effect sensor, which can be found in other newer GM four cylinder transmissions. To correctly configure this input for the Fiero's 4000 ppm speedometer, a PCM which can filter the 24,000 ppm signal must be used to interface the signal along with the infamous conversion circuit. If such equipment is not available per application - say a carbed engine, the Dakota Digital SGI-5 box can be used to control the speedometer.
Any more information on this? My speedo bounces from 120 down to 80 very rapidly (pulses) when I am driving it. Any help on this would be FANTASTIC. I am using a '98 GTP ecu and a (IIRC) '02 F23.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 09-11-2012).]
The instrument cluster is looking for a different pulse, one that's much slower. Which is why your needle is burying and bouncing off the stop pin. I don't know if the issue can be fixed through the ECU or not. I had to use the Dakota Digital converter to drop the pulse that was going from the transmission to the speedo.
To my knowledge (ie, not a fact!), Jncomutt was not able to get his ECU to play nice with converting the signals, but in short, you need to get the ECU to translate the signal. I don't recall if the OEM was 4k pulse or 2k pulse, 4 sounds right, but please double check.. or reread the part about the speedo and buy the Dakota unit, bypass your ECU completely.
I ended up with 23190 for the PPM with 25.6" tire diameter. The 98 gtp is 24000 I believe so it should be close when you get the circuit hooked up. Just have your tuner tune your tune so you can watch your speed while you speed.
Wanted to make sure I get this right. I can buy an F23 from a 2000-2002 Cavalier, an F23 out of a newer Cobalt, install the bell housing from the Cavalier to Cobalt trans, and bolt it up to my 2.8? I understand to idea of making proper mounts and shift linkage, but I just want to make sure that I'm 100% clear on the fact that the bell housings are interchangeable. Oh, and what clutch should I use? I'm not totally clear on that. I want to stick with my 2.8.
Originally posted by Trinten: To my knowledge (ie, not a fact!), Jncomutt was not able to get his ECU to play nice with converting the signals, but in short, you need to get the ECU to translate the signal.
This is correct. I was NOT using a GM PCM, and therefore didn't have that speedo OUTPUT to use. My ECU read the sensor from the transmission just fine with no converting whatsoever. However, since my ECU doesn't have a speedo out, I was unable to get my speedo accurate using the old dip-switch style DD Converter directly between speedo head and transmission. I didn't spend much time with it, just plugged it in and flipped the switches, it was close at driving speeds but horrible at parking lot speeds. I just said screw it, and learned my rpms per gear and would occasionally glance at my tablet display.
[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 02-06-2013).]
The original trans seeding unit puts out 4,000 ppm (pulses per mile) and all the newer trans outputs are 24,000 ppm. I use the same cicuit and wired it in from the speed out of the CPU to the dash. I installed mine on a waffer disc and put it inside a relay housing that I gutted. I then mounted it on the passenger side with the fan and fuel pump relay. Mine is working great and by checking multiple time by GPS it is incredibly accurate. The parts only cost a few bucks at radioshack and was really easy to install.
------------------ 86GT, 3800SC, F23, true duals, 3.4 pulley, comp VS cam, zzp power log, WCF air intake, ARP bolts, comp lifters and push rods, 90# springs, SI stainless valves, aero-force scantech meter. Here is my build thread https://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum2/HTML/122548.html
If doing a 3800SC swap, I recommend installing the buffer on the PCM VSS OUTPUT to the Fiero speedometer. This will allow you to tweak your speedometer to match different wheels etc.. by flashing your PCM. If you go from the trans direct to the Fiero gauges, you have to redo your buffer to make adjustments.
I love the idea of making the buffer into a relay case! Awesome idea! Man Fiero owners are creative!
I have 2 concerns...
#1: I never heaard of anyone grinding the input shaft to mate a F23 to a 3800SC.. This is a first.. Anyone else have to do this???
#2: I'm still not sure about HTOB spacer on the 3800SC with .840 flywheel... and if a spacer is used, do you still need a clutch pedal stopper?? Cheers!
I grinded the splines off the end of the input shaft of the f23 so it looked just like the 282 input shaft. I used a cordless drill with an allen socket and had my dad run the drill on the intermediate shaft while I took a grinder and ground down the splines to a wrap of masking tape I put on the input shaft as a stopping point. Because it was spinning the whole time when I stopped it was perfectly round. Also, if you use the spacer on the htob (which I recommend) you do not need to have a pedal stop.
Ok I've read this entire thread and have come up confused. Which f23 has the 3.84 fd with the 60 degree bellhousing? Or is the only ratio with the 60 degree 3.94? Ithought I read earlier that the 60 degree had 3.84 but then someone posted it had 3.94. Any clarification would be great. I need to replace my getrag so I'm just going to do this swap but have no idea what I'm getting myself into. Are the only extra componants needed the modified cable and brackets (If I'm mounting it to a 3.4)? What happens with the slave cylinder?
------------------ Grace and Peace -Kaleb
Romans 1:16 " For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek."
Ok I've read this entire thread and have come up confused. Which f23 has the 3.84 fd with the 60 degree bellhousing? Or is the only ratio with the 60 degree 3.94? Ithought I read earlier that the 60 degree had 3.84 but then someone posted it had 3.94. Any clarification would be great. I need to replace my getrag so I'm just going to do this swap but have no idea what I'm getting myself into. Are the only extra componants needed the modified cable and brackets (If I'm mounting it to a 3.4)? What happens with the slave cylinder?
The 60 degree has 3.94, I think the 3.84 is a newer model year F23 that has the Ecotech bellhousing. Clutch line goes into the HTOB with Thein's adapter as shown on the first page.
He's right, 60 degree is only in 3.94 but you can swap a 3.63 diff from the Ecotec trans into the 60 degree case, or swap the bellhousing on the Ecotec trans.
[This message has been edited by Jncomutt (edited 04-01-2013).]
He's right, 60 degree is only in 3.94 but you can swap a 3.63 diff from the Ecotec trans into the 60 degree case, or swap the bellhousing on the Ecotec trans.
Here's the clutch and pressure plate I used on my swap, it was to an SBC, but the parts were designed for a Fiero.In my amateur opinion, I think they're great. They were made by a company called clutchnet ( http://clutchnet.com/ )
EDIT: I just tried to use my part numbers from my receipt to look it up on their website, not there. Looks like they reordered their inventory. The udpated clutch number could be 6BS3881 or 6BS3771, and pressure plate RP3771/RP3881 (the number difference is from their listing of it being a 4sp Fiero or a 5Spd Fiero).
Anyone have any designs or instructions on how to make your own F23 mounts? FieroFlyer is pretty busy and I need a backup plan. I basically need that car done in a few weeks. I have a decent flux core mig.
Anyone have any designs or instructions on how to make your own F23 mounts? FieroFlyer is pretty busy and I need a backup plan. I basically need that car done in a few weeks. I have a decent flux core mig.
Thanks!
The 1st post of this thread does? And my 3800/F23 thread also shows my ideas/method of mounting the power-train as well, no real measurements because there are different factors between each setup.
I am electronics challenged.
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