I need to revise a couple things in the installation instructions based on Raydar's feedback and then drill the rotors and finish fabricating the parking brake hardware for the first 3 kits. Once this work is done, I will have 3 completed kits ready to ship and will approach the people who have stated they are interested to see who is ready to buy a kit now. The challange is timing... with Christmas here, disposable income will be tight for most, so the first 3 kits will go to the people with cash ready to buy.
Once the first 3 kits are sold, I will start a thread in the mall to sell more kits.
For wave 2, I am probably going to require a $100 to $250 deposit at the time of order, and balance required when the kit is ready to ship. The machine shop lead time is about 1-2 weeks and the rotors are about 1 week as well. I would like this 2nd wave to be as large as possible to fill all current orders and keep the brackets/rings for 5-10 kits in stock for future orders. The rotors are the most expensive part and with there currently being 3 rotor options, I am not planning to keep the rotors in stock (as doing so would just wrap up too much of my limited R&D fund for all my fiero projects).
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-20-2011).]
I have the 12" vette set up on my Formula that I am quite satisfied with, so sadly I will not be your customer... but thank you so much for the effort and innovation you showed to upgrade and modernize our cars.
I know it has been mentioned before... but I will re-cap again why I think this route is better than the 12" vette route: 1) inncreased leverage stopping power 2) removes any LCA interference (is easly corrected with 2 minutes and a grinder on the vette set up, but still...(mine was on the drivers left side) 3) no brake hose routing issues (my front passenger braided hose was too short at full lock on the vette set up)
only 'drawbacks'/quirks? for the 13" setup (for lack of a better term) 1) probably have to use 17" or larger wheels 2) additional step with the e-brake (not required when you go the 12" route) 3) more unsprung weight
It's a no brainer to me... I would go to 13" just for looks!... much less the other advantages mentioned!
------------------ <---- did you buy Cliff a beer? ......................................................www.northtexasfieroclub.org
I am so one the fence at the moment with the set-up...
Two things that I am trying to convince myself that they are no big deal:
1) The thin-ish adapter brackets - Would like someone to really put these larger rotors to the test to make sure the brackets do not bend/tweak. I do understand the direction the force it being applied, but I also know about leverage. The fact that these brackets move the caliper further away from the center only componds that effect. I also understand the brackets are as thick as they are to get proper alighnment...
2) The diamater of the rotor "hat" looks rather large - Quite a bit of it is visable through the wheel, or at least would be visable through the wheels im using (ASA AR1's)...
Ohh man, decisions decisions
[This message has been edited by ALJR (edited 12-20-2011).]
I am so one the fence at the moment with the set-up...
Two things that I am trying to convince myself that they are no big deal:
1) The thin-ish adapter brackets - Would like someone to really put these larger rotors to the test to make sure the brackets do not bend/tweak. I do understand the direction the force it being applied, but I also know about leverage. The fact that these brackets move the caliper further away from the center only componds that effect. I also understand the brackets are as thick as they are to get proper alighnment...
2) The diamater of the rotor "hat" looks rather large - Quite a bit of it is visable through the wheel, or at least would be visable through the wheels im using (ASA AR1's)...
Ohh man, decisions decisions
I can address these. I, too, was a bit concerned about the brackets, until I had them in my hands. If I was still concerned, I would not have installed them on my car. (Remember, I already had a Corvette setup, with the second design brackets, sitting on my bench.) They're pretty much as thick as other brackets. (If not, they're very close.) Much thicker than Paul's original mock-ups, pictured early in the thread. In any event, if there is an issue, I'll share. I plan to drive the car frequently, so I should be on top of it.
That hats are pretty large. I don't think they look bad, however. I posted some close-ups, above. I'll try to get some more pics of the car from a longer distance. OTOH, the rotor fills up the space behind the wheels, nicely. Looks perfect with the 17s. I thought about painting the hats, but I like the way they look. I may clear them to stop them from rusting.
Originally posted by Raydar: the rotor fills up the space behind the wheels, nicely. Looks perfect with the 17s. I thought about painting the hats, but I like the way they look. I may clear them to stop them from rusting.
Yes, they do fill nicely Painting the hats is an option I was/am considering; actually powder coating them if I can find some high enough temp powder...
How thick are the brackets? They only look a 1/4" or so... Are you also using nuts to hold the caliper on, or just the threads in the bracket?
Yes, they do fill nicely Painting the hats is an option I was/am considering; actually powder coating them if I can find some high enough temp powder...
How thick are the brackets? They only look a 1/4" or so... Are you also using nuts to hold the caliper on, or just the threads in the bracket?
Have you tried to bend 1/4" steel plate? Not very easy. Plus, like you said, that is not even the direction of the stresses they are taking, bolts would snap from sheer loading before then.
Yes, they do fill nicely Painting the hats is an option I was/am considering; actually powder coating them if I can find some high enough temp powder...
How thick are the brackets? They only look a 1/4" or so... Are you also using nuts to hold the caliper on, or just the threads in the bracket?
The brackets are 5/16". Currently the brackets are tapped w/o nuts. I have them and can send them if someone wanted to use them on the backs, but the brackets have no issue holding the 74 lb-ft torque for the caliper bolts w/o the nuts.
I was one who asked about nuts, before I saw the brackets. (I posted earlier in this thread.) Now that I've seen the brackets, I'm comfortable with them, as is.
Yes, they do fill nicely Painting the hats is an option I was/am considering; actually powder coating them if I can find some high enough temp powder...
The Zinc coated rotors should not need paint or powder coating. I have zinc plated on my GT from at least 8 years ago and they are still shiny. One thing I hate is rusty rotors, so I will be going with zinc.
Originally posted by jscott1: I have zinc plated on my GT from at least 8 years ago and they are still shiny.
You Sir, have never seen a New England winter Granted I do not drive my Fiero in the snow; the salt remains long after the snow is gone. Takes several good rain storms to wash it all away. I have not had very good luck with coated rotors, the constant salt spray combined with numeriour heat cycles kills the coating... Not that PC is "better", it just lasts longer...
Lol, I wish that were true... I grew up in western NY.
However, you are correct that my GT has never seen snow, let alone road salt. But I am impressed that after 8 years, not a sign of rust. I wish I knew what kind I bought, but they were generic ebay coated rotors.
The Zinc coated rotors should not need paint or powder coating. I have zinc plated on my GT from at least 8 years ago and they are still shiny. One thing I hate is rusty rotors, so I will be going with zinc.
They will not rust as long as the car is sitting in the garage...It's been 8 years since I seen your GT at a show....J/K....but would be nice to see you at a show this coming year....
Been working on the inventory of parking brake hardware. I have 9 cable sleeve extenders completed and 14 longer cable couplers in the fabrication stages. By Monday I should have the first 3 kits 100% complete and ready for new owners, the 4th kit just needs rotors, then I will need to setup a group buy for phase 2 of the bracket/ring orders.
Cable Sleeve Extenders:
Longer Cable Couplers - these are a fair amount of work... Cut the sleeve from mild steel to the proper length - used the lathe to keep the ends true. Turn a lip on the nut so it will be centered in the sleeve: Staging for welding: Clamp the ends into the tube and tack weld the ends: Weld the ends solid and let them cool:
I still need to turn down the excess weld on both ends, mill the center slot for the barrel ends, cut the cable slots through the nuts, and then paint... As you can see these cable extenders are quite involved
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-24-2011).]
Those cable connector sleeves do look labor intensive! But they came out nice...
What is the purpose of welding nuts on either end? Is it to just decrease the i.d. of the tube so the cable does not pull through? Just a sugestion and this may not even be fesable or easier; but why not use a smaller piece of sleeve with thicker wall (to get a smaller i.d.) and slide it into either end of the cable connector sleeve. weld it in place via two puddle welds on either side; then do your milling and slot...
Those cable connector sleeves do look labor intensive! But they came out nice...
What is the purpose of welding nuts on either end? Is it to just decrease the i.d. of the tube so the cable does not pull through? Just a sugestion and this may not even be fesable or easier; but why not use a smaller piece of sleeve with thicker wall (to get a smaller i.d.) and slide it into either end of the cable connector sleeve. weld it in place via two puddle welds on either side; then do your milling and slot...
Yes, the nuts create the lip to keep the barrel from sliding through the coupler. There are several ways these could be made, but the nuts work well.
There are several ways these could be made, but the nuts work well.
Yes, they do look like they are strong... Just tossing a suggestion out there to maybe make them easier/faster. Your 13" upgrade is well thought out and I would have to imagine once all the testing is dune and a few of these are out there, this wil be the defacto upgrade "kit" for the 88's
Nothing new to report. Drove all over town, last week. Used the Fiero for my last minute shopping and grocery grabbing. The only thing I can say about the brakes is that in normal use, you don't even know they're different from stock. They're unobtrusive. They just work better. I still haven't gotten them hot enough to try to make them fade, but it's been raining here for several days.
If there's anything in particular that Paul, or anyone else, wants me to pay attention to, I'll be happy to oblige, if I can.
.. I would have to imagine once all the testing is dune and a few of these are out there, this wil be the defacto upgrade "kit" for the 88's
You are still on the fence and seems to want more people to test this before you are convinced. If Paul is putting these out it is becasue he is convinced and looking at his work/ethics that is more than enough for me. I'm getting one of these first kits. Will tell you soon how much I like them
You are still on the fence and seems to want more people to test this before you are convinced. If Paul is putting these out it is becasue he is convinced and looking at his work/ethics that is more than enough for me. I'm getting one of these first kits. Will tell you soon how much I like them
Just looking for some extreme performance testing My stock 88 brakes (actually brand new everything) work well under normal driving. But once hot or pushed to the edge, my confidence in them stopping my Fiero "in time" drops exponentially... If I am going to replace my new stock brakes, I just want to make sure it’s going to do what I want them to do...
Not to mention I have to get my 3800 in and all sorted out first; so I am in no rush
[This message has been edited by ALJR (edited 12-26-2011).]
Just looking for some extreme performance testing My stock 88 brakes (actually brand new everything) work well under normal driving. But once hot or pushed to the edge, my confidence in them stopping my Fiero "in time" drops exponentially... If I am going to replace my new stock brakes, I just want to make sure it’s going to do what I want them to do...
Not to mention I have to get my 3800 in and all sorted out first; so I am in no rush
I hear you. This also came a little late for my GT. I just installed everything new so no plan to upgrade that one. Maybe in 2+ yrs at the rate that I drive these.
As I said earlier, here are the first 3 completed kits ready for purchase (and the 4th just missing the rotors - and it will be the first kit with the plastic rings):
I have been in the process of approaching the people who were first interested in this kit and giving them an opportunity to purchase one of these first 4 kits. So far I am please to say that Alex4mula and FieroMaster88 have claimed their kits and payment has been received.
This is FieroMaster88's kit right before I boxed it up:
As I said earlier, here are the first 3 completed kits ready for purchase (and the 4th just missing the rotors - and it will be the first kit with the plastic rings):
I have been in the process of approaching the people who were first interested in this kit and giving them an opportunity to purchase one of these first 4 kits. So far I am please to say that Alex4mula and FieroMaster88 have claimed their kits and payment has been received.
This is FieroMaster88's kit right before I boxed it up:
Damit, STOP posting pics of the Fiero candy! Your gonna make me spend money I don't currently have BTW, did you get this posted in the mall section yet?
[This message has been edited by ALJR (edited 12-26-2011).]
Damit, STOP posting pics of the Fiero candy! Your gonna make me spend money I don't currently have BTW, did you get this posted in the mall section yet?
But I like posting pictures!!!
I have not started the mall thread yet. My plan is to get these first 4 kits sold, then I will start a phase 2 purchase thread in the mall.
I can't ever leave well enough alone... This kit adds some additional weight vs. the stock fiero rotors and the drilled/slotting reduced this some... but I want less.
These rotors are from the rear and are originally setup for a drum style parking brake setup. As such, there is a small protruding lip of drum material on the back side that doesn't need to be there for a fiero application.
I was curious how much weight I could reduce by removing this lip, so off it came, and off came 5.2oz.
Granted 5.2oz is only about 1/3 of a lb. so it isn't much weight, but it also opened up the air path to the center of the rotor... Given the machining time involved to perform this modification, if I offer it on the kits, it will be a $50 to $100 option. I am pretty sure I will be doing this modification for my personal sets, just don't know if the weight savings will justify the additional cost for most people.
Been working out the final details for the last 2 kits.
While that has been going on, also been working on the Mall thread (to be posted shortly), ordering more brackets and rings and getting setup to have everything but the rotors for 25 more kits by the middle of January.
It looks like these kits will officially go on sale January 15th (so start saving your $$$ now), and I am considering selling hardware kits (everything but rotors), but only after I have 15 confirmed buyers for the hardware kits. These kits will make my rotor selection public knowledge and locking in 15 kits will ensure I recover my substantial costs to developing this kit.
The new kits going forward will have the plastic expandable concentric ring vs. aluminum rings. Here are some sample pictures of the kits with the plastic rings:
Here is a pic of the potential hardware kit:
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-27-2011).]
For those interested in a hardware kit, but concerned about drilling the rotors, I will be posting a DIY write-up this evening on how to drill the rotors using an old wheel bearing and a 1/2" drill bit.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 12-28-2011).]
For those interested in a hardware kit, but concerned about drilling the rotors, I will be posting a DIY write-up this evening on how to drill the rotors using an old wheel bearing and a 1/2" drill bit.
<---- did you buy Cliff a beer? 
