As some of you following my LS4/F40 thread may know, I made a custom aluminum flywheel for the LS4/F40 application and designed it around using a 10" clutch set (4.0L Ford Ranger).
Here is a comparison between and the 10" Spec 4+ clutch (Left) and a Fiero sized Spec 3+ 9" clutch (Right):
My flywheel weights under 12 lbs, so it is about 4 lbs less than a stock Fiero flywheel. The 10" clutch weights about 1 lb more than the 9" one, so together my flywheel/clutch combo will weigh about 3 lbs less than a stock Fiero setup. Also, if you do the math on the friction surface, the 10" clutch has 25% more friction area and the centerline of the friction material is 1/2" larger in diameter.
I sent my print for the LS4/F40 flywheel off to a CNC shop and based on that quote I am considering offering a custom aluminum flywheels for the F40 transmission for the following applications: 88+ 60 degree V6, 4.9, N* and LS4... Offering these 4 engine families would require 4 programs with the center bore and crank pattern different for each, but would not increase the price as long as I have 5 people for each setup.
The tentative target price would be $550 shipped (lower 48 states) for the fully assembled flywheel (flywheel, wear strip, and ring gear). Clutch is not included.
It is a long shot that this project will have enough interest, but just thought I would throw it out there and test the waters.
Originally posted by fieroguru: Also, if you do the math on the friction surface, the 10" clutch has 25% more friction area and the centerline of the friction material is 1/2" larger in diameter.
What are the ID's and OD's of the friction surfaces on the two clutches?
I have no use for this product but must say you my friend are a Artist when it comes to making parts. Everything I have seen you make is always top notch, thought out in every way and no cheaping out or taking shortcuts.....Good looking product at a great price for what you are getting.....
That @$$umes the same friction material and total clamp load.
Going from the 9 1/8 to 9 11/16 is about 15% improvement, for example.
I already did the math a couple months ago and got the 25%. In my LS4/F40 thread there is a pic of the 10" (nominal) clutch with a tape measure. The ID is 6 1/4" and the OD is 9 13/16. Can't remember what the 9 1/8" one actually measured off the top of my head.
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Originally posted by MstangsBware:
I have no use for this product but must say you my friend are a Artist when it comes to making parts. Everything I have seen you make is always top notch, thought out in every way and no cheaping out or taking shortcuts.....Good looking product at a great price for what you are getting.....
Thanks for the compliment!
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Originally posted by Alex4mula:
Why didn't Archie did that with his V8 F40 kit??
Archie's friction spacer plate is adaptable to all the other swaps and his kit has been used in all but the N* and LS4 swaps already. So he kinda has... in complete kit form.
For the LS4 swap I had to either build a custom flywheel to accept his spacer plate or just build a custom flywheel the needed thickness... So I focused on clutch options instead and found the largest clutch setup that would work on the F40 and designed the flywheel around it. Most would say that the 9 1/8" Fiero size clutch has proven itself to hold over 500 hp somewhat reliably, but I am more focused on smoother engagement and longer wear than absolute holding power... thus the quest for larger diameter.
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Originally posted by dobey:
As you probably already guessed, a resounding yes please from me.
I figured you were interested. Just need another 2-3 people for the LS4/F40 combo I will make that flywheel happen.
As far as the SBC kits are concerned, I already had more than 1800 Stick shift SBC conversion kits out there. I designed the 6 speed kit for the SBC so that people who already had SBC's in their cars (like you) wouldn't have to buy & replace parts they already had bought once.
Remember how the only part from you're original SBC stick swap that wouldn't work with the 6 speed is the Clutch.
Since the N* doesn't need an adapter to bolt to the six speed would an Archie clutch set up work? Yours wouldn't right?
You have 3 options... Use the normal N*/Getrag flywheel (about .820" thick) and use Archie's F40 spacer/clutch combo Use the N* version of my LS4/F40 flywheel (with the proper center bore and crankshaft pattern for the N*). Both the N* and the LS4 have the same crankshaft depth into the bellhousing, ring gear diameter and neither requires an adapter plate. Do something completely different.
The LS4/F40 flywheel and the N*/F40 flywheels both appear to have the needed interest so it will be the first flywheel created. I am also planning to adapt it to another application with the addition of 1 part to increase the marketability and increase the range of lower cost engines that it can be used on. I will probably gear up for 10 LS4/F40 flywheels on the initial run.
The N*/F40 is gaining interest, but there just are not than many N* swaps completed or in the works. The 60 degree V6 interest is quite low as well, so at this point I will start looking at having the CNC shop run some flwheels with the center bore hole, but w/o the bolt pattern. I need to check the center bore for the N* and the 60 degree V6's to see if the flywheels can be made with the larger bore and use a pressed in bushing for the smaller one. Then I can use the same flywheel for both applications and drill the needed crank pattern on my mill.
+1 if you can roll one for a neutral balance 60 degree. Haven't got much use for it otherwise. I have a 3.4 DOHC Turbo to be mated to an F40. I was going to make my own flywheel out of a RWD's flywheel, but would rather do this, as long as it works of course.
Originally posted by fieroguru: I need to check the center bore for the N* and the 60 degree V6's to see if the flywheels can be made with the larger bore and use a pressed in bushing for the smaller one.
Yes.
IE, that's how I adapted a V6 flywheel to my Northstar.
Is the crank flange on the High Value V6 the same as the older gen 60 degree V6es? If so, you can probably find a few buyers on the G6 forums, as I'm sure some of the 3.9+F40 owners might want a lightweight aluminum flywheel.
Some of the 60degV6 forum guys might want the option as well, to swap in an F40. Don't know if you have accounts on any of those forums, but if so, might be worth checking out.
Is the crank flange on the High Value V6 the same as the older gen 60 degree V6es? If so, you can probably find a few buyers on the G6 forums, as I'm sure some of the 3.9+F40 owners might want a lightweight aluminum flywheel.
Some of the 60degV6 forum guys might want the option as well, to swap in an F40. Don't know if you have accounts on any of those forums, but if so, might be worth checking out.
They had a group buy a while back for an aluminum copy of the stock 3.9/F40 flwyheel, not sure if it ever panned out for them. The big difference is that their flywheel retained the stock G6/F40 raised pressure plate (which was larger than 9 1/8" in diameter). Once I have the first batch or two of flywheels made and all the Fiero applications are filled, then I will focus more on marketing them on other forums.
I would be interested in the Northstar version, but would want to know what the shipping costs would be to Canada before I would commit. International shipping with brokerage fees often takes the "good" out of a good deal.
Originally posted by fieroguru: They had a group buy a while back for an aluminum copy of the stock 3.9/F40 flwyheel, not sure if it ever panned out for them. The big difference is that their flywheel retained the stock G6/F40 raised pressure plate (which was larger than 9 1/8" in diameter). Once I have the first batch or two of flywheels made and all the Fiero applications are filled, then I will focus more on marketing them on other forums.
Well, it looks like I can get one for my LS4 at least, so I'm happy.
We are up to 4 interested parties for the N*/F40 version so that is very promising. I will have to research shipping to Canada for at least 2 flywheel requests.
I currently have an Archie 6 speed swap. I was the original 2.8 + 6 speed prototype. When I put in a 3400 roller cam block, I bought a Fidanza aluminum flywheel to mate his spacer to. I will probably need a new clutch in a year. When the time comes, I'd love to get a 1 piece solution especially if it lightens the overall package that I currently have. I am prepared to pay for a 60 degree F40 flywheel but am hesitant to pay up front for it as a rule for anything on the internet.
So if you make it, I will buy it then.
Also, I have a stock Formula that at 61k miles burns 2 quarts of oil betwen oil changes. It's got a 5 speed now and I'd love to put in another 3400 block + 6 speed when the time comes... As well as upgrade my current 3.4 to a LS4 (hello Archie/fieroguru!!!)...
Ideally, I would love it if Archie could act as an investor and that way you could make more up front and lower the unit costs. I think a 1 piece solution would be a great addition to his kits. My potent 3.4 roller cam motor with 6 speed on a fully loaded GT averages in the upper 20's on gas mileage where as my stock Formula 5 speed averages 22mpg. Everyone should do a 6 speed swap, it's a cost savings in the long run.
[This message has been edited by lou_dias (edited 11-30-2011).]
I am pleased to see interest growing for the 60 degree flywheels.
Currently working to finish my LS4/F40 combo so I can test out my clutch setup and confirm everything works as expected. Once that is done, then I will order the first batch of 5 LS4/F40 flywheels.
I would need this some day. I just need to know what is being done for the electronics side of the swap. Mine would basically need the exact same stuff as an originally equipt LS4 car sence I have everything from the Monte installed in my Fiero. I just cant hack the ECM because I still need the rest of the electronics to function.
Currently working to finish my LS4/F40 combo so I can test out my clutch setup and confirm everything works as expected. Once that is done, then I will order the first batch of 5 LS4/F40 flywheels.
So, get off the internet and get back to work. There are those of us out here that want to see that hot rod finished.
Oh Yeah, bump for another great product and thread.
------------------ Ron The key thing is to wake up breathing! All the rest can be fixed. (Except Stupid - You can't fix that) Always remember these words of wisdom.
"The Lord must truly love fools, for he made them in abundance."
I will commit to a N* f40 flywheel as well, I can't say I don't want to take advantage of the Spec Aluminum flywheel I already have and the CNC mill, but this will be simpler and I can't argue with that
My current project focus is shifting back to getting the LS4/F40 running (vs. other R&D projects). Once I get some miles on it and prove out the design, then this project will get the green light.
