Usually you have the same 1/2 dozen or so people that end up doing it all while the others sit & wait, then b itch about what was wrong.
Then, when those 1/2 dozen or so's ideas get old, people get bored and drop out.
As mentioned, the ones that do last end up being a "social club" and new members either don't fit in or don't bother.
The internet is also a good buzzkill for social activity.
Back when gas was over $4.00 p/gal. people either sold there car or just don't use them.
Car shows were a big draw for car clubs. Now most people I know don't bother with the rat race of a car show and go to cruise nights where things are much more laid back and you come & go as you please with nothing formal as a club gathering.
These are just the tip of the iceburg, there are many more reasons.
I'm fortunate enough to have Harleys, collector cars, race cars and a large shop. When I get bored of a certain form of entertainment I can move onto another. If I get bored of vehicles in general (Ha Ha - Right), I can putz around in my shop. When all else fails, I have a 50 foot porch on my house that I can just kick back on and watch the world go by.
[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 11-29-2015).]
Originally posted by hyperv6: Starting a club is tough and keeping it alive is tougher.
Most clubs that start and last are normally run as a business with a strong leader that has pressure on him to make it work since he is vested. Or the other kind that is mostly a social group that are together mostly because they are friends.
Having experienced many different clubs I know now a lot of how things go and how things work or do not work.
Add to this the limited nature of the Fiero and it limits the number of members too. It is hard enough to keep a Camaro or Corvette club together and happy let alone a Fiero club.
I have seen many with bright eyes and ideas come and go with the club deal. It is a tough thing and it takes a lot of work normally done by a small group of people. Also not everyone has the time to put into the club as others. I know some years I was really into it and other years I seldom even got the car out due to other things that were more important and the fact I got tired of the car for a bit. Owning it 30 years your enthusiasm goes in Cycles.
Tell me about it. I'm nowhere near Ohio, but have the same problems here. None of us are close to each other, and there are always pressing matters--jobs, home repairs, work on other cars, family needs, etc. Our free time is limited.
One way to have a strong club is to run it like a business. This way the guy in charge has skin in the game and makes sure there is a good product. If not his club will fail and he will lose out on any reward incentive for doing a good job.
One of the best clubs is the one Shelby club. It is a business. They have built a good museum, host events and put out a very good publications. There are some other privately owned clubs that also do a good job. But to own a club you have to really keep the product up and it takes a lot of time and money to keep it going. Odds are it would be difficult to support it with the Fiero group as it would not be a cheap membership either. When you represent a car that is worth 6 figures you can charge a little bit more to join the club.
For the Fiero the only way it works is to have a core local group. Then make sure you have a monthly publication that is informative and interesting. This is what connects you to other parts of the state or country. If you look at the Michigan groups or Illinois group they have a very strong publication as a foundation but they too are also supported by a core group of solid member's too.
A club can be done but it is not easy. You have to get along with everyone including those you do not agree, Ego has no place in a club. You have to expect to do most of the work. You have to expect to dedicate a lot of time. The hardest part is coming up with new and fresh ideas.
I have seen them come and go over the years. Many well meaning people really get in over their heads as they really miss many things that make this work and fail.
I wish someone would take up and do a quarterly magazine on the FIero. With the web now it would be a little easier but still time consuming. This would make a good foundation for a club. The owner of the site could charge a subscription and this would hold them accountable and reward them if they do a good job. Even then it still would not be easy to keep it going forever.
Bumping this, hoping interest sparks since I just bought an 88 Formula & I’m back in the game again instead of being on the bench.
Welcome back! I have an 88 Formula too. It's been a daily driver though since I brought it back out last spring. I haven't done any shows this year because of that. Just a few cruise-ins. Mostly at Quaker Steak and Lube in Sheffield Village OH. There are a lot of cool people on ths forum. And many that are not. I run into people around here all the time that still have Fieros and ones that approach me that got out of the game but want back in. We have a decent number of Fiero owners in my general area.
Too much politics with POCI. While things are better there they still fight among themselves.
Also too many members there still do not accept any Pontiac with anything less than a V8 400.
The concept of the Fiero Owners Club of America was a good one just poorly executed by someone who was very unorganized. When times got tough it collapsed on him. The idea could still work but you need someone who is willing to put in a lot of work and has a lot of ability and knowledge of the car. Most of those people have day jobs that already pay better.
Too much politics with POCI. While things are better there they still fight among themselves.
Also too many members there still do not accept any Pontiac with anything less than a V8 400.
The concept of the Fiero Owners Club of America was a good one just poorly executed by someone who was very unorganized. When times got tough it collapsed on him. The idea could still work but you need someone who is willing to put in a lot of work and has a lot of ability and knowledge of the car. Most of those people have day jobs that already pay better.
I have been a member of POCI since 1983 and it has always had its ups and downs like any club, in-fighting too. As a whole it has, for the most part, been good, very informative and has stood the test of time.
My only problem is its latest one over the Smoke Signals editor. My first issue under its new command SUCKS! In all my years of receiving the Smoke Signals I have never hated it as much as I do now. Very confusing, can't find a damn thing in it and way too much advertising. The worst I have ever seen it.
I have been a member of POCI since 1983 and it has always had its ups and downs like any club, in-fighting too. As a whole it has, for the most part, been good, very informative and has stood the test of time.
My only problem is its latest one over the Smoke Signals editor. My first issue under its new command SUCKS! In all my years of receiving the Smoke Signals I have never hated it as much as I do now. Very confusing, can't find a damn thing in it and way too much advertising. The worst I have ever seen it.
POCI itself around my area does not show much love for Fieros. I do plan to attend their convention this upcoming summer in Davenport, IA. From what I heard at this past years convention they only had 3 Fieros. The large GTO specialty chapter Cruising Tigers, however works well with us and always treats us well at their large show Indian Uprising.
I have a lot of mixed feeling about the POCI editor situation, living close to the Pontiac Oakland Museum, we have gotten to know Tim Dye and he has hosted a Fiero Day for us and treated us very well. I agree the first issue of the new regime was a major downgrade over Don Keefe's. For anyone missing Don, he has started a new magazine Poncho Perfection.
It is tough keeping clubs going, many have come and gone. Even the "Big" Fiero shows are seeing car counts come down. Existing clubs need to make sure they are getting younger people involved, or they may not be around forever.
POCI itself around my area does not show much love for Fieros. I do plan to attend their convention this upcoming summer in Davenport, IA. From what I heard at this past years convention they only had 3 Fieros. The large GTO specialty chapter Cruising Tigers, however works well with us and always treats us well at their large show Indian Uprising.
I have a lot of mixed feeling about the POCI editor situation, living close to the Pontiac Oakland Museum, we have gotten to know Tim Dye and he has hosted a Fiero Day for us and treated us very well. I agree the first issue of the new regime was a major downgrade over Don Keefe's. For anyone missing Don, he has started a new magazine Poncho Perfection.
It is tough keeping clubs going, many have come and gone. Even the "Big" Fiero shows are seeing car counts come down. Existing clubs need to make sure they are getting younger people involved, or they may not be around forever.
I agree with everything you are saying here.
IMO, POCI has always looked upon Fiero as Pontiac's bastard child. As hardcore as Harold Hooten was over the Fiero, POCI really took the wind out of his sail one year at the Convention. Hoot was never the same and he even stepped down from the American Fiero chapter. Seems like the most respect POCI ever gave the Fiero was at the 1983 Convention in Niagara Falls, NY when Pontiac brought the prototype.
However, the only people that are going to change that respect are Fiero owners. If the owners of these cars don't speak up, are not going to attend events in numbers and are just going to sit on their thumbs and complain to themselves, even I can't blame POCI for saying "move over, we can use that space".
As far as Tim Dye, I have absolutely no ill feelings for Tim and over the years have met him a few times. However, he has his hands full doing a great job with running the museum and I don't think he has what it takes to be Smoke Signals editor. 6 of the first 9 pages are advertising and the rest is so mixed up its confusing. Hell, it took me 3 times scanning through it to find the local chapter president's contact information. That info was always on the first or last page. I'm not paying for that crap! If POCI wants all that advertisment then the members should receive the Smoke Signals for FREE due to the money they are making off of it now.
First you have the hard core old time collectors that never accepted anything post 1979. Then you have a group that accept all the cars from start to end.
In the POCI many have tried to extend that reach to all Pontiac owners as they know they need all members not just the old school to survive. There has been a lot of internal disagreement here on this. Add to that some local chapters are old school and some are not and if you have a Fiero with the old School you will be treated as an outsider. The fact is there are some good people inside the POCI but just not enough of them.
The other POCI factor is they were always about Original. Of late they have loosen up a bit to accept cars of all types modified and original. Again in the need to continue membership. The problem is many GTO and other cars are now being bought up by collectors not club members and this is killing off the old school members along with age.
I know Don Keefe and he is one of the best historians of Pontiac there is. He not only has a great knowledge base but all the connections to be of great value to the club. I am not sure what all happened as I spoke to him in August and he told me he was let go from The club. The POCI magazine was for once becoming of value but now it is going back to the old ways that are not positive. I did not ask for the dirt but it was not a good ending for Don there.
But on a good note he has his first Prototype book coming out with a second to follow. I hope he continues to write as he has so much knowledge to share. If anyone could put a book together on the Fiero that tells the whole honest story Don is the one that should do it.
Might add here the Pontiac Nationals at Norwalk Ohio have always been great with the Fiero people and have always had a better larger show.
If given a choice to go to a show the Pontiac Nationals has always been my choice. I did two POCI and just felt like I was let in just because I paid money but they really did not care if I was there with a Fiero or not. That was a few years ago and I have had not interest in returning. I know things got better but it put me off a bit.
Might add here the Pontiac Nationals at Norwalk Ohio have always been great with the Fiero people and have always had a better larger show.
If given a choice to go to a show the Pontiac Nationals has always been my choice. I did two POCI and just felt like I was let in just because I paid money but they really did not care if I was there with a Fiero or not. That was a few years ago and I have had not interest in returning. I know things got better but it put me off a bit.
Yeah, I am going to try to make it to Pontiac Nationals one of these years. I attended one POCI convention because it was 10 miles from my house.
Might add here the Pontiac Nationals at Norwalk Ohio have always been great with the Fiero people and have always had a better larger show.
If given a choice to go to a show the Pontiac Nationals has always been my choice. I did two POCI and just felt like I was let in just because I paid money but they really did not care if I was there with a Fiero or not. That was a few years ago and I have had not interest in returning. I know things got better but it put me off a bit.
quote
Originally posted by mrfred8:
Yeah, I am going to try to make it to Pontiac Nationals one of these years. I attended one POCI convention because it was 10 miles from my house.
What "Nationals" are you referring to? The POCI National Convention, as far as I know, have not been to Norwalk, OH. I'm assuming you are referring to the Tri-Power Nationals.
I have heard the Tri-Power Nationals is mainly geared towards Pontiac drag racing and not so much the brand itself. I have a friend that goes every year and races his '67 Firebird. I have talked to Steve Ames about me running my Fiero but he told me that because it has a big block Chevy engine in it I couldn't compete, so I haven't gone.
Bumping this, hoping interest sparks since I just bought an 88 Formula & I’m back in the game again instead of being on the bench.
Just start by having a few folks get together as regular as possible, even just a few times a year, and it could grow from there. Doesnt need to be called a club or be super organized unless later it looks like it would be beneficial. But really a bunch of clubs is harder to maintain than just joining and helping with a few larger ones.
Just start by having a few folks get together as regular as possible, even just a few times a year, and it could grow from there. Doesnt need to be called a club or be super organized unless later it looks like it would be beneficial. But really a bunch of clubs is harder to maintain than just joining and helping with a few larger ones.
Yep. Roger and I try to get together at least once a year. The guy has so much knowledge and is a great guy. I get with a few others from the forum along with others that are not. You make friends and the rest takes care of itself. I wondered about a club before, but meh. I don't have the time to organize one myself.
What "Nationals" are you referring to? The POCI National Convention, as far as I know, have not been to Norwalk, OH. I'm assuming you are referring to the Tri-Power Nationals.
I have heard the Tri-Power Nationals is mainly geared towards Pontiac drag racing and not so much the brand itself. I have a friend that goes every year and races his '67 Firebird. I have talked to Steve Ames about me running my Fiero but he told me that because it has a big block Chevy engine in it I couldn't compete, so I haven't gone.
The Tri Power Nationals are one and the same as the Pontiac Nationals.
The event is two events one part Drag Racing for all Pontiac Powered cars. It has to be a stock corperate engine or it has to be a Pontiac engine to race. Hence Pontiac Tri power Nationals. You can run a Monte Carlo as one guy does but it has a 468 CID Pontiac race engine in it.
The Drags get about 500+ car.
The second part is a Pontiac car show. If it is a Pontiac stock or modified there is a class for you. They judge by detail and cleanliness not if you have the right bolt on your choke or shifter. The Fieros have done well there as Ames give awards for the top scoring cars at the event in 5 areas and the Fiero's have won it 6-7 times in 21 years. Not a bad average considering the kind of cars we are up against.
The Show side gets over 500 cars yearly and I have seen up to 1200 cars at the even for the weekend. You have never seen as many cars and variety of Pontiacs in one place. The event draws them in from thousands of miles away as normally the long distance award goes to a guy from San Diego or someone from Vancouver.
The event also now has gown to the largest swap meet I have ever seen for Pontiac only. It has had some pretty rare items there too. I found one year a Super Duty DOHC head and valve cover in the swap meet brand new. Not something one finds often anywhere else.
It is a fun event the Pontiac and show people treat the Fiero's very well as we always draw many people in and always a kind word is passed along. Most relate that they had owned one or wished they had bought one.
There is also a Firehawk gathering there the same time and they get maybe 50-75 Firehawks into the event.
The last couple years the attendance was down due to weather.
Note there are a couple Chevy powered cars entered in the event but they are Canadian Pontiacs that were Chevy based. As long as it was stock the engines are accepted.
If you want to see the biggest and best Pontiac event this is it. So do not just write it off as a race. There have been some years I was so busy on the show side I never got over to watch any of the races. Meeting old friends and making new ones evey year takes up time between dusting the cars off.
Note on how Fieros can do. I enter into a Open Street class since I have modifications. I normally classes with all sorts of similar modified Pontiacs From a new Solstice G6, FG8 to about any kind of 60's Pontiac not a GTO, Trans Am or Grand Prix. I normally place in my class and twice have taken the Ames award. I can't complain one bit.
I do wish they had a system or class like POCI for the Gold, Silver and Bronze awards as I would like to try to compete for that as you challenge a scoring system not another car. Maybe someday they may try that.
My other problem is that there is usually another race that weekend that I almost always enter with one of my other cars.
But that swap meet sounds interesting and I do vend in Pontiac parts. I have raced at Norwalk and its not that far from me. Perhaps I may give it a shot for vending but I'd really rather race.
My other problem is that there is usually another race that weekend that I almost always enter with one of my other cars.
But that swap meet sounds interesting and I do vend in Pontiac parts. I have raced at Norwalk and its not that far from me. Perhaps I may give it a shot for vending but I'd really rather race.
If you are referring to racing, I also run Thompson.
But if you are referring to vending in Pontiac parts, I do a few meets a year and have done Carlisle for over 30 years.
However, with all the BS going on lately at Carlisle I'm considering dropping Carlisle in favor of Charlotte, NC. But if the Norwalk meet is that good I may add that one to my list.
If you are referring to racing, I also run Thompson.
But if you are referring to vending in Pontiac parts, I do a few meets a year and have done Carlisle for over 30 years.
However, with all the BS going on lately at Carlisle I'm considering dropping Carlisle in favor of Charlotte, NC. But if the Norwalk meet is that good I may add that one to my list.
I told Bader Jr. one time that the way they treated me I felt l was John Force and that they don't care if you are John Force or a nobody, they treat everyone the same. Awesome place.
Now I want some "dollar a pound" ice cream.
[This message has been edited by Thunderstruck GT (edited 11-30-2015).]
I told Bader Jr. one time that the way they treated me I felt l was John Force and that they don't care if you are John Force or a nobody, they treat everyone the same. Awesome place.
Sounds like we will be meeting up some day.
