What happened to:

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Dean knows how I feel about the project. He and I are cool. He knows how to deal with me and how impatient I am (this was discussed up front).

After all the bragging it is so sad this ended this way

This scenario plays out all over the world on a daily basis. Some never see their car again, or when its finally returned, they wished they hadn't. This is so prevalent that organizations are drawing up new consumer laws.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 09-14-2012).]

So sorry to see this turn into "this" type of thread. I sort of predicted in my own mind that the outcome would be what I am reading now based on the one sided tirades posted by BVMotorsports.

You saw fit to jump to conclusions and cast asperions on My old thread. So I will post below my responce to you.

Hey bV I was not sure what to believe as I have not met you, nor looked at your build thread for the 88 turbo 3800. Until now, Wow I just sat and read it!

I am not sure where you got the impression that I have never been to WhoDeanie's before? I have had at least one of My Fiero's in his shop for over two years now. I did not mention it in the PM I sent you. But was not hiding it.

I asked you what I thought was a simple question. I was not aware that you were upset with the results of what you had Dean do for you.

I was asking because I was pretty impressed with your car in person. I do not take kindly to you calling Me a lyer !

Please, do tell Me what it is that you think I am lying about. Below is the PM I sent to you:


"Good evening, we have not as yet met. But I would like to hear about your exsperiance with Dean at WhoDeanies in GA.

I have a project that he is working on. And I got to see your Fiero there last week.

I look forward to hearing from you soon, Wally"

As a normal person wound have assumed that when I said and I quote, "I have a project that he is working on. And I got to see your Fiero there last week."

I clearly stated that not only do I have a car at WhoDeanie's, But also noted that I had seen YOUR car there!

And yes I was very impressed with it. Wally

"Car is way to low". On my 88 I just retained the stock springs, and used Rodneys 1 in. lowering ball joints. I have no clearance issues and the ride is fine. I did trim the bump stops the same amount as the car was lowered.

I also tried second set of stock springs with one coil removed, along with the ball joints. Glad I had two sets of springs. The ride was much worse, and the front tires would rub on the top of the plastic wheel wells on a good dip with that set up.

Are you runing coil overs in the back?

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: LOL its all good man. The way I see it is simple. And its really easy for some people to say to relax, just wait etc etc. However, you take $30k of your own hard earned money. Send a pristine 14k mile car to a guy you have never met before. Make a deal on what is to be done and agree on a timeframe. Fast-forward 4 1/2 MONTHS past the deadline. Have the original quote DOUBLE and suffer through endless excuses, delays & lies. Have the builder cuss you out on several occasions and then go seek legal advice. Get told by the attorney to get the car returned as soon as possible. Have a car delievered that is unsafe to drive, poorly built, and not even close to being finished. Now tell me how YOU'D feel! All I know is that I am out of 6 months, 13 THOUSAND bucks and I have a ruined car (so nearly 30k wasted). But OK, I am the bad guy. All those giving me negatives and defending Dean, you DISGUST ME!

OK i'm confused by this paragraph. Your figures don't compute by any sense of math terms. You said that you took 30K then that doubled which makes 60K. Then you say 13K but wasted 30K.

So which is it? 13K, nearly 30K, 30K or 60K?

I'm confused and I consider myself above average when it comes to numbers.

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: . All those giving me negatives and defending Dean, you DISGUST ME!

I was reading this and gave you a plus maybe it will make up for some of the negs. I do not have anything against Dean at all. I just think we all have the right to criticize someone’s work without getting harassed. It happens a lot on this forum. (little clicks) I do have a question. When my old car that I sold was at Dean's I read they swapped out the Turbo and could not understand why he would do that because is cost me over 1200 bucks it was a precision built outers with Garret twin ball bearing center. It was almost new and made no sense to me. Did this turbo end up on your car?

Hmmmm... Anyone want a turbo 3800 F23 swapped into their car???

------------------
Turbo 3800 E85 F23 5spd spec5
11.54@132.7

quote Originally posted by F355spider: I was reading this and gave you a plus maybe it will make up for some of the negs. I do not have anything against Dean at all. I just think we all have the right to criticize someone’s work without getting harassed. It happens a lot on this forum. (little clicks) ...?

Well said. Let it play out between the parties involved.

Tony

quote Originally posted by Justinbart: Hmmmm... Anyone want a turbo 3800 F23 swapped into their car???

I'll take some of the parts to finish mine.

quote Originally posted by MrWally: You saw fit to jump to conclusions and cast asperions on My old thread. So I will post below my responce to you. Hey bV I was not sure what to believe as I have not met you, nor looked at your build thread for the 88 turbo 3800. Until now, Wow I just sat and read it! I am not sure where you got the impression that I have never been to WhoDeanie's before? I have had at least one of My Fiero's in his shop for over two years now. I did not mention it in the PM I sent you. But was not hiding it. I asked you what I thought was a simple question. I was not aware that you were upset with the results of what you had Dean do for you. I was asking because I was pretty impressed with your car in person. I do not take kindly to you calling Me a lyer ! Please, do tell Me what it is that you think I am lying about. Below is the PM I sent to you: "Good evening, we have not as yet met. But I would like to hear about your exsperiance with Dean at WhoDeanies in GA. I have a project that he is working on. And I got to see your Fiero there last week. I look forward to hearing from you soon, Wally" As a normal person wound have assumed that when I said and I quote, "I have a project that he is working on. And I got to see your Fiero there last week." I clearly stated that not only do I have a car at WhoDeanie's, But also noted that I had seen YOUR car there! And yes I was very impressed with it. Wally

If I am mistaken as to your intentions, then I sincerely apologize.

If you were up to no good and now play the victim, shame on you.

I think that covers all bases.

BV, thanks for the kudos on my products.
Sorry you are having troubles with your car.
Mike

quote Originally posted by F355spider: I was reading this and gave you a plus maybe it will make up for some of the negs. I do not have anything against Dean at all. I just think we all have the right to criticize someone’s work without getting harassed. It happens a lot on this forum. (little clicks) I do have a question. When my old car that I sold was at Dean's I read they swapped out the Turbo and could not understand why he would do that because is cost me over 1200 bucks it was a precision built outers with Garret twin ball bearing center. It was almost new and made no sense to me. Did this turbo end up on your car?

First off, well said on your post.

I have this one, well I think I do.... lol Its a PT67bb turbo. .68 hot side (a tad on the small side). I was told the F-body shop (by his old place) ordered it for a customer but decided to go a different route and I got it dirt cheap.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 09-11-2012).]

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: LOL, sorry. I type like talk. Total in the car is 30k. Thats buying the car, mods and the money I wasted @ Wodeanies. Original quote for the work was "about 10k". June he slapped a bill on me for $19,890. Yes, double. Thats after me riding his has for months to keep a running total so I wouldn't get sticker shock. Needless to say... I was shocked. After all was said and done, I spent about 13k with Dean to nearly ruin my car.

BV, i too was having a little trouble following your math. People can do what they want, but really the negatives were not necessary or warranted.

I have tried to look at it from both sides, but help me understand. If Dean billed you for $20 K and you only paid $13K, that leaves you $7K in the green. I know you listed a series of things that need attention, but do you really forsee that adding up to another 7K in repairs ?

That could temper all the doom and gloom.

Like you said this is really between you and Dean, whom i consider a good friend, but you do have the right to stand up for your hard earned cash.

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 09-12-2012).]

Yes and yes to the oil change issue 1st and foremost the moment the original build had head Gasket issues everything was in shut down till I could get to the shop and see what was up. I did not feel there was enough time on the engine to consider it completed. As it pertained to bearing and valve train I absolutely drained the oil when I pulled the top end back down to Parade rest. I needed to see the oil and verify there was no debris or antifreeze. All signs in oil were just fine. NEXT I Had Dean take care of the parts list and verified with ZZP on all my method of reassembly, IE Head Studs correctly sequenced and Teflon taped not silly-conned, copper head spray etc.… I was spot on.
2ndly due to the short time line on the first start up I knew the smart play and the safe play is to spend the cash for break-in lube a second time… split the oil filter to check for issues. We all wanted you to have the best damn 3800 turbo to be sure of that and proud of.
Understand my frustration seeing and hearing the boost on the video ….. WAY to little time on an engine to be peddle checked like that. Regardless of what is said you are the only one who knows for certain how far you pressed the gas Alias, that time line, a rush to have your car back, and this I understand as we are only human.
P.S. after mock-up, prior to final assembly I made sure nothing is left to chance and everything is clearance, cleaned re-cleaned and then its cleaned again. That’s still never clean enough for me . But I ran out of time. If for some reason you still question my building abilities or dedication to a higher Standard of engine performance open the hood to your car and look at the workmanship in front of you. NOW try comparing comparable shops cost and timelines for what you have been handed.
Enough said I will not post on here further of this issue as it dose not require more comments or defense.
I do hope you enjoy the car it is an AWSOME one of a kind, A True work of engineering Art.

quote Originally posted by StreetStock83: Yes and yes to the oil change issue 1st and foremost the moment the original build had head Gasket issues everything was in shut down till I could get to the shop and see what was up. I did not feel there was enough time on the engine to consider it completed. As it pertained to bearing and valve train I absolutely drained the oil when I pulled the top end back down to Parade rest. I needed to see the oil and verify there was no debris or antifreeze. All signs in oil were just fine. NEXT I Had Dean take care of the parts list and verified with ZZP on all my method of reassembly, IE Head Studs correctly sequenced and Teflon taped not silly-conned, copper head spray etc.… I was spot on. 2ndly due to the short time line on the first start up I knew the smart play and the safe play is to spend the cash for break-in lube a second time… split the oil filter to check for issues. We all wanted you to have the best damn 3800 turbo to be sure of that and proud of. Understand my frustration seeing and hearing the boost on the video ….. WAY to little time on an engine to be peddle checked like that. Regardless of what is said you are the only one who knows for certain how far you pressed the gas Alias, that time line, a rush to have your car back, and this I understand as we are only human. P.S. after mock-up, prior to final assembly I made sure nothing is left to chance and everything is clearance, cleaned re-cleaned and then its cleaned again. That’s still never clean enough for me . But I ran out of time. If for some reason you still question my building abilities or dedication to a higher Standard of engine performance open the hood to your car and look at the workmanship in front of you. NOW try comparing comparable shops cost and timelines for what you have been handed. Enough said I will not post on here further of this issue as it dose not require more comments or defense. I do hope you enjoy the car it is an AWSOME one of a kind, A True work of engineering Art.

Oh but before you go... I am pretty sure we all want to see this video you claimed to have. I showed you mine, its your turn! You came in here with some pretty serious, and rather far-fetched, accusations. Furthermore, if the builder (Dean) says its driveable and "safe", its going to get driven. Don't worry, I'll be sending in an oil sample to blackstone labs for a proper analysis. Not that it matters to you since my "warranty is void" LOL

I'm sure you know the 3800 has only 5 bellhousing holes with threads right?

quote Originally posted by topcat: So sorry to see this turn into "this" type of thread. I sort of predicted in my own mind that the outcome would be what I am reading now based on the one sided tirades posted by BVMotorsports.

LOL (I think) Glad to see someone was paying attention.

So you are telling me there are only two bolts holding them together?? Wow. I wouldn't drive it like that.

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: First off, well said on your post. I have this one, well I think I do.... lol Its a PT67bb turbo. .68 hot side (a tad on the small side). I was told the F-body shop (by his old place) ordered it for a customer but decided to go a different route and I got it dirt cheap.

Mmm I had the turbo coated with turbo-X a black heat coating. It was built for the 3.4 sounds like the size. I will have to see if i still have to order invoice.

...

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 10-14-2012).]

That drain issue is an easy fix... just run that line to the front of the oil pan, there is a threaded hole there already for you. ZZP / Stattama sells the adapter for it.

My drain ran like yours (will) for years without an issue on that same turbo.

quote Originally posted by darkhorizon: That drain issue is an easy fix... just run that line to the front of the oil pan, there is a threaded hole there already for you. ZZP / Stattama sells the adapter for it. My drain ran like yours (will) for years without an issue on that same turbo.

I'll have a look into it. I hope not to have to run a scavenging pump. For the last comment, are you telling me you had the return line run down and under the trans like mine is currently?

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: I'll have a look into it. I hope not to have to run a scavenging pump. For the last comment, are you telling me you had the return line run down and under the trans like mine is currently?

I THINK he is saying to run the return line to the Front of the Oil pan (Firewall side). Not sure how yours is run now.
I believe there is a Oil level sensor port that he is referring to as that is the only threaded port I know of that comes with the pan.
Since your Turbo is already by the firewall that port should work out well. I DO have a inline restrictor built into my feed line connector and a -10AN pipe for return, FYI.

Well I am gonna have to hold off on the car for a few days.

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 10-14-2012).]

Did you tell the lawyer that you insisted the car be delivered that weekend, finished or not?
Kind of implies "as is" to me.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Did you tell the lawyer that you insisted the car be delivered that weekend, finished or not? Kind of implies "as is" to me.

I wasn't going to say it but,......... i was thinking the exact same thing.

That is a big problem,..... no matter what the lawyer says.

quote Originally posted by Raydar: Did you tell the lawyer that you insisted the car be delivered that weekend, finished or not? Kind of implies "as is" to me.

Give it a rest. Seriously! There is no RUSH on a car that is 4 and a half MONTHS past due the agreed on time-frame. Honestly, at what point do you say enough is enough? I'm... you know... just...really?? If thats all you can say about this. Its pretty clear what side of the fence you are on. All the stuff that was posted. All the crazy accusations, shoddy build and questionable ethics.. and you guys point at me saying I RUSHED the guy? Whatever, maybe you have lower standards than I.

I doubt either one of you are attorney's. Correct?
*Sigh*

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 09-27-2012).]

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Give it a rest. Seriously! There is no RUSH on a car that is 4 and a half MONTHS past due the agreed on time-frame. Honestly, at what point do you say enough is enough? I'm... you know... just...really?? If thats all you can say about this. Its pretty clear what side of the fence you are on. All the stuff that was posted. All the crazy accusations, shoddy build and questionable ethics.. and you guys point at me saying I RUSHED the guy? Whatever, maybe you have lower standards than I. I doubt either one of you are attorney's. Correct? *Sigh*

You did the right thing..If u would have let it continue on then u would be waiting on ur car till the end of the year. This is what has happened to others and thier cars from other vendors. Time line is set, past, excuses made, repeat....

The biggest down fall to Whodennies shop is he doesnt have the money to do things without customers paying up front. I hope he makes it but at the rate his shop is going it will not.

quote Originally posted by MstangsBware: You did the right thing..If u would have let it continue on then u would be waiting on ur car till the end of the year. This is what has happened to others and thier cars from other vendors. Time line is set, past, excuses made, repeat.... The biggest down fall to Whodennies shop is he doesnt have the money to do things without customers paying up front. I hope he makes it but at the rate his shop is going it will not.

Exactly. How many times have we seen this scenario repeated on PFF? Honestly, I have lost count. Dean and I spoke about this at length. I thought I got to know him over the last 6months. You can do one or the other well, mechanic or shop manager, but not both, at the same time. Dean agreed he was failing for this very reason.

3/19 I gave Dean $5,000 (half of the quoted price). By 3/26 he claimed to have spent it all and demanded $3,000 more and it HAD TO BE PAID by the 26th. Think about that last date for a second (surprise... DAYTONA). Not long after he needed even more because he could not afford to buy the piping for the exhaust and intake etc. A few weeks later, I had to send more. By the time the car was delivered, he had 90% of the bill and I only received 60% of what I paid for (and that is being generous)!

Do you have any idea how much Dean's way cost me over going with PROVEN ZZP components? Engine alone (long block) cost $2,500 more than ZZP's crate engine and it has a REAL warranty. Plus, the NA top end makes 40whp at any RPM over the L67 parts. This is directly from ZZP. The intake and IC set up is another $2,000 over a traditional setup. I even supplied perfectly good parts for the IC set up but they were not used. Funny, I haven't seen them since.... Again, Dean disregarded my input and built it his way. His reason? "I dont trust anyones engines". I guess his shop floor built engine that was left open to the shop for weeks must be better? Yeah, all of the grit and metal shavings I pulled out of the turbo inlet and intake are good for the engine right? Everyone at the shop that day heard what was going on... funny how that bit seems to have been overlooked.

Whats the point of paying someone to do a SPECIFIC job only to get a bunch of (half-assed) "freebie's" and only part of what you paid for in the first place? I didn't ask for the suspension to be installed. I told Dean to leave it in the box and I'd do it myself. I told Dean NOT to do the body mods and just concentrate on finishing the swap. He kinda did them anyway & left it in primer. Problem is, the MAIN JOB was left incomplete. Honestly, how hard can this be to understand? I didn't ask for ANYTHING other than what I paid for! It was a nice gesture, but what is the point if left unfinished?

[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 10-14-2012).]

Feel your pain BV ! Been there with what I was told was a reliable shop with a dyno (never had done business with them), they made mistakes that cost me dearly. The problem with any work requiring a lot of skill to do it correctly, is that there has to be one guy dedicated to that project full time. If it drags out over time because he's bouncing between projects, then errors are made, they blame your parts, or other reasons other than theirs.

Wish you luck on the Attorney, from what I've been told by a lot of people, suits against shops do not go well at all for the owner of vehicle. Basically you can win your claim, but the judgement amount against shop is maybe just enough to cover your Attorney Bill. So then you have the satisfaction of knowing the Shop got slammed, but you still have a messed up car, and the Attorney can take a World Cruise.

I bit the bullet on my car after talking to a bunch of people, fixed it with my money. I'm not telling you to stop what you are doing, but be cautious. All the Attorney cares about, is making a living.

[This message has been edited by California Kid (edited 09-13-2012).]

quote Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Give it a rest. Seriously! There is no RUSH on a car that is 4 and a half MONTHS past due the agreed on time-frame. Honestly, at what point do you say enough is enough? I'm... you know... just...really?? If thats all you can say about this. Its pretty clear what side of the fence you are on. All the stuff that was posted. All the crazy accusations, shoddy build and questionable ethics.. and you guys point at me saying I RUSHED the guy? Whatever, maybe you have lower standards than I. I doubt either one of you are attorney's. Correct? *Sigh*

I was not attacking you BV.

The only thing i was trying to point out and echo is that, that technicality could potentially be a very slippery legal slope.

I hope you get your car completed to your satisfaction cause it will be one killer ride !

As far as being an attorney nope,....but you don't exactly need to be a doctor to know that being shot in the brain might cause more than a mild headache. I personally trust attorneys about as much as i do politicians.

OK no more legal talk from me, let's get back to the build.

[This message has been edited by exoticse (edited 09-13-2012).]