Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Did I mention you at all?
You mentioned the pathetic "vendor(s)" and how "they" chose to not sell parts to your friends. I chose to put a name to at least one of the pathetic vendors, to lessen speculation. For those who think it is unjust for a vendor to refuse service, I wanted them to be able to punish me directly vs. my fellow vendors who are remaining neutral.
I did find your choice of plural words interesting though. So either you are expanding a single vendor (now identified) action to multiple vendors (unidentified) for additional sympathy, or there have indeed been 2 vendors take the same stance... which is interesting as well.
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Originally posted by BV MotorSports: What the hell is this all about? Feeling guilty about something?
It would appear that you are driven by your ego and pride yourself in always getting the upper hand in every transaction. However, to accomplish this you have to publicly share what happened to you, and how you handled it, and what you got out of the deal. Over the past several months you have posted these slights-turned-conquests multiple times and even alluded that you were going to publicly share the clutch/flywheel combo dean used in your setup because he wouldn't share it with you (which I do think you should know, but not share it).
So my decision to have zero dealings with you is to avoid the whole slight-turned-conquest drama and if I need to restrict selling my products to people associated with you to keep some of the proprietary details of its components out of general public knowledge, then so be it.
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Originally posted by BV MotorSports: I could give a damn about your brake kit, it has nothing to do with me.
Glad to hear you don't care about it. So it shouldn't have been any issue that the racing team you participate on doesn't have access to it.
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Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Point of fact, I dont even think I have ever even spoken with or dealt with you.
Very true, we have never met or spoke. My assessment of you is from your varied postings to the world and how you have proven time and time again to respond to others. Going forward, I want to ensure that we never have the chance to deal with each other, which is why I took the stand I did.
I'm going to one race to help an old friend. If you want to punish someone for what you THINK I did (that doesn't involve you in ANY WAY), that's on you!
The F23 clutch.. you are going to "judge" me over a clutch????? You "vendors" wouldn't have it if not for those that shared and developed the swap PUBLICLY. I see nothing wrong with sharing its application & fitment. Now if I had some CAD files for the brackets or mounts, then they should not be shared w/o the dev's consent.
I am utterly amazed at your behavior on this. I really am. I don't know why you seem so upset with me.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 10-14-2012).]
I think my phone double posted when I loaded a page... weird..
Anyway, I can understand the reasoning behind Guru coming out and clearing the air on some of the other **** talking... it helps level the playing field a bit.
Originally posted by BV MotorSports: ...You "vendors" wouldn't have it if not for those that shared and developed the swap PUBLICLY. ...
Just so you recognize... You said "You vendors"... Guru is one of the people who develops things. He's one of the ones who gets copied. Dean, too, for that matter.
Why does it just seem to be the Fiero community, where everybody seems to think everything ought to be "public domain"?
[This message has been edited by Raydar (edited 09-15-2012).]
Originally posted by BV MotorSports: I'm going to one race to help an old friend. If you want to punish someone for what you THINK I did (that doesn't involve you in ANY WAY), that's on you!
You still don't get it... my actions were driven to protect the details of my products vs. your punishment. Not sure how I planned to punish you, since I didn't bring the issue public, and had no plans to. Once I refused the sale, I accomplished what I needed to do (protecting my products from your access) and I was done with it.
You made the issue public as a sympathy play with your "pathetic" vendor comments. I self-identified at that time to remove speculation about who this pathetic vendor was so if anyone wanted to neg the responsible vendor, they could neg the right one. If it costs me a few negs to keep you away from my products, then so be it.
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Originally posted by BV MotorSports: The F23 clutch.. you are going to "judge" me over a clutch????? You "vendors" wouldn't have it if not for those that shared and developed the swap PUBLICLY. I see nothing wrong with sharing its application & fitment. Now if I had some CAD files for the brackets or mounts, then they should not be shared w/o the dev's consent.
I am not judging you over the clutch... One of the areas I am judging you, is your statement of your intent to share information a vendor asked you not to, especially when it was the vendors first F23 swap. This gets down to respect of what the vendor is trying to accomplish. He is trying to develop a combination of parts so he can offer to sell them and increase his product line and grow his business. While I do agree that you should know the combo as the car's owner, if he tells you to keep it quiet, you should if you truly want to see him succeed in the process.
I have zero personal interest in the F23 swap or F23 parts, but I am a helpful person by nature. I do know quite a bit about them as I was the SBC technical consultant for the swap that the F23 tutorial was based on. I didn't do any actual work, just provided guidance on some options to address many of the fitment issue with the SBC. I did this all for free, just to help a friend and I liked the challenge.
Even though you say the F23 swap was developed publicly and all the information is public domain, I see post after post on a weekly basis about either the confusion with the needed parts for the F23/3800 combo or threads complaining about fitment issues on what they were told works... So with all that chatter, I see an opportunity for a detail oriented vendor to take the time to figure out exactly how the OEM F23 setup worked and then properly adapt it to the F23/3800 with a specific list of parts that will work each and every time. I even posted how to go about doing this in one of the threads (you posted in that thread as well) trying to provide some helpful guidance in an effort for someone to figure out exactly what is going on with this setup to lessen the overall confusion.
95% of the time I am a strong supporter of public information and you can see that to a very high level in my build theads with almost every part # used shared.
However, it takes time/$$ to develop new products for the fiero community, so when a vendor does take the time and effort to develop a product for the Fiero community, I think they are entitled to try to protect the information as long as possible to recoup the costs of there development. That is why I have never publicly shared the application the rotor for my 13" brake kit comes from, and this is why I take major issue with you making the comment about sharing deans clutch/flywheel setup when he asked you not to. If the vendors are not able to recoup their development costs because the copy-cats get the information too soon, then eventually the Fiero community will not longer have any new products and the vendors will move on to different vehicle platform.
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Originally posted by BV MotorSports: I am utterly amazed at your behavior on this. I really am. I don't know why you seem so upset with me.
I am not upset with you.
I am highly concerned of: **Too many of your vendor/buyer relationships end badly. **Your willingness to undermine vendor product development by sharing information you were asked not to...
These are two of the items will have me keeping my products at a distance from you.
Hey everyone I want to say something, TheRealShadowX was just playing around. If he's being negged because of this comment, you really should lighten up on him. I mean seriously he's close to being banned bacause he made a smart-ass comment that didn't really mean anything? If it's because of something else ok, but it sure looks like it's this comment as his bar wasn't even showing before this. I would hope mature adults wouldn't neg someone because of something so trivial.
Hey everyone I want to say something, TheRealShadowX was just playing around. If he's being negged because of this comment, you really should lighten up on him. I mean seriously he's close to being banned bacause he made a smart-ass comment that didn't really mean anything? If it's because of something else ok, but it sure looks like it's this comment as his bar wasn't even showing before this. I would hope mature adults wouldn't neg someone because of something so trivial.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TheRealShadowX:
Plused.
Neg me losers!
[/QUOTE]
This happens all the time on this forum. I gave the guy a plus because he was getting negs for standing up to someone that did work for him and he was not happy and had the balls to tell everyone about it. After that my red bar jumped also. The clicks on this forum are ridiculous. There are venders in the Fiero world that would be laughed out of town in the real word and they think they are Gods on here. Just accept it and move on it will not change. I will give this guy a plus also. I hate to see clicks get people kicked off it is like bullying in school and using ratings for the wrong reason. Then people wonder why the Fiero community is so small and we loose so many to other cars.
I am highly concerned of: **Too many of your vendor/buyer relationships end badly. **Your willingness to undermine vendor product development by sharing information you were asked not to...
These are two of the items will have me keeping my products at a distance from you.
Why would you need to "protect your IP"? Jesse lives in Virginia, I am in Florida. We are meeting in SC for a race. What am I going to run off to a machine shop to get your brackets copied during a race? LOL I mean seriously? C'mon, think about what you are saying here.
BTW, you didnt seem overyly concerned about IP in the F23 thread. So why bother now? BTW Dean's reply to me asking about it was:
"It was a PITA! And I had to have some machining done on the flywheel as well as work on the bell housing. I dont want to share that info, those idiots can pay me to do it".
Seriously, do I have products for sale? Do you see me with ANY for sale threads? Do I run a shop? I mean, really you are acting pedantic over this for no VALID reason.
Oh yeah, I cant recall having a single problem with Fiero vendors up to this. If so, I'd like them to remind me.
If you cant see all the FACTS I have posted and understand just how frustrated I am, you aren't as perceptive as you portray.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 10-14-2012).]
Hey everyone I want to say something, TheRealShadowX was just playing around. If he's being negged because of this comment, you really should lighten up on him. I mean seriously he's close to being banned bacause he made a smart-ass comment that didn't really mean anything? If it's because of something else ok, but it sure looks like it's this comment as his bar wasn't even showing before this. I would hope mature adults wouldn't neg someone because of something so trivial.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by TheRealShadowX:
Plused.
Neg me losers!
[/QUOTE]
I agree. If you guys want to neg someone arbitrary then I am disappointed in how far our community has fallen. I thought his comment to be tongue-in-cheek.
The Fiero got dropped off today. I am slowly working on it. Let me see if I can give a decent status update (refreshing change of venue!).
TLG HID's installed- FANTASTIC! TXGOOD armrest and glovebox installed- Amazing quality! Front lip spolier is 90% installed. I just need to get some more fasteners (the plastic "tree" type) Raised the car up 7/8's rear 1 inch front. Ordered the F23 PPM adapter from Tim. Got it the next day, I just have to figure out how to install it. His instructions are good, I just suck at electronics. Ordered the Aeroforce Interceptor gauge from ZZP. Found the information I need to sort out the pegged CTG. Added a PCV system and catch can Ordered an oil scavenging pump to sort out the oil drain issue. Installed some new front speakers to replace the horrible stock items I also ordered a bunch of Thermo Tec heat wrap, sleeve & turbo blanket. RD decklid strut. It wont clear the cruise and TB cables so I asked Rodney to ship me a passenger side strut mount. I found a local tuner to sort out the tune. He is coming to my house on monday to have a look. Charlie doesnt require any $$ upfront on anything he builds. I explained the situation to him and he is confident he can get this baby purring. Plus he has a dyno in house. So, I should get some numbers soon!
Good deal, this car has strong bones. I'm sure you'll get past the issues.
Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Ordered the F23 PPM adapter from Tim. Got it the next day, I just have to figure out how to install it. His instructions are good, I just suck at electronics.
Why did you get a PPM adapter? You shouldnt need one as the 3800 ECU is within a few MPH on a fiero swap only because the tire size is different.
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Added a PCV system and catch can
The stock PCV should work fine. I have never found any oil problems on my turbo stuff with just normal breathers, but if you run the catch can system make sure you do it with -10 line.
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Ordered an oil scavenging pump to sort out the oil drain issue.
There should be no reasons you cant route what you have... spending $300+ on a turbowerks is a horrible solution for a daily driven car with the turbo 15+inches above the oil level in the pan... That pump is going to be right next to your ears and it will get extremely annoying quick.
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I also ordered a bunch of Thermo Tec heat wrap, sleeve & turbo blanket.
I always suggest not wrapping exhaust parts... If you want to wrap the "after turbo" parts you can but I do not suggest wrapping the pressure side tubes.
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I found a local tuner to sort out the tune. He is coming to my house on monday to have a look.
The stock supercharged tune should work fine. If Dean put in the stuff for the different maf sensor on the car, it should be fine there as well. Dont attempt to look for solving any problems with the PCM, it will just make for problems later on after you fix your currently broken garbage.
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I explained the situation to him and he is confident he can get this baby purring.
Trusting a "tuner" that claims to solve mechanical issues with a laptop is a tall order for me. When I tune local's cars, I almost always have to send them away after the first time I look at the car to fix mechanical issues before I am able to offer a live tune that is trustworthy. (there are exceptions to this, but its generally what I do).
Dean removed the PCV system. Thats why I am fitting one.
F23 adapter. I was under the impression that is needed to solve my speedo problem. Anytime the car is moving my speedo bounces from 120-80mph rapidly
I just dont see an easy solution for the oil drain. Dean stuffed eveything and I mean everything behind the engine. It will be a very tight fit. The starter is in the way as well. Post pics of what you did. Maybe that will help.
Dean removed the PCV system. Thats why I am fitting one.
F23 adapter. I was under the impression that is needed to solve my speedo problem. Anytime the car is moving my speedo bounces from 120-80mph rapidly
I just dont see an easy solution for the oil drain. Dean stuffed eveything and I mean everything behind the engine. It will be a very tight fit. The starter is in the way as well. Post pics of what you did. Maybe that will help.
Mine is all rear side.. PM PBJ and ask him to take a pic of akursedx's car.
The speedo moving around weirdly is not the fault of the driver... the PCM couldnt be "bad" and cause that.
Originally posted by darkhorizon: The stock PCV should work fine. I have never found any oil problems on my turbo stuff with just normal breathers, but if you run the catch can system make sure you do it with -10 line.
Originally posted by BV MotorSports: Why would you need to "protect your IP"? Jesse lives in Virginia, I am in Florida. We are meeting in SC for a race. What am I going to run off to a machine shop to get your brackets copied during a race? LOL I mean seriously? C'mon, think about what you are saying here.
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Originally posted by fieroguru: I have never publicly shared the application the rotor for my 13" brake kit comes from
As you can see (again) it is a rotor issue, not the brackets. The part # for the rotor is stamped on the outer edge and is quite easy to get.
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Originally posted by BV MotorSports: BTW, you didnt seem overyly concerned about IP in the F23 thread. So why bother now?
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Originally posted by fieroguru: 95% of the time I am a strong supporter of public information and you can see that to a very high level in my build theads with almost every part # used shared.
I have been quite vocal about not posting the application for my rotors, it has come up in every thread I have posted about the kit... nothing has changed on that front. I am not a fan of the F23 and have zero interest in ever making anything for it or ever using it in any of my cars. I share useful information or the process I use to get it all the time in multiple threads. There are very few things that I will not share the details on publicly: 13" rotor application, LS4/F40 custom flywheel details, the 12 3/4" solid rotor... and the transmission that will be in my next swap. Everything else is an open book.
[This message has been edited by fieroguru (edited 09-15-2012).]
I agree with DH. You can't tune until the basics are done first.
With the speedo, if it uses the same vss as the F40, you can set the 4000ppm out to read 60,000. That should get you very close.
Dave
I assume this is a setting in the ECU? What setting exactly? Charlie isn't familiar with Fiero swaps (to my knowledge) so he may not know what needs to be done in these situations. I do know he will be bringing his laptop with him on Monday to have a look at the tune.
Sorry, I didnt mean to make it out like I thought the tune would solve all the problems. I know there are several things to sort out first. I am plugging away at them. Big things are the oil drain, alignment, speedo and the coolant gauge that points straight up.
I have been quite vocal about not posting the application for my rotors, it has come up in every thread I have posted about the kit... nothing has changed on that front. I am not a fan of the F23 and have zero interest in ever making anything for it or ever using it in any of my cars. I share useful information or the process I use to get it all the time in multiple threads. There are very few things that I will not share the details on publicly: 13" rotor application, LS4/F40 custom flywheel details, the 12 3/4" solid rotor... and the transmission that will be in my next swap. Everything else is an open book.
I can understand that, I honestly do. Again, I don't know why you think I am out to get your parts. I have ZERO interest in a BBK. And if I did, I wouldn't be looking into a 13" kit. You sure its ME you are concerned about? I think the only communication I have ever had with you was for the 88 trailing link relocation brackets.
So step back and give it proper consideration and ask yourself why. I'd be just as surprised if Archie thought I was going to copy his SBC kit.
I have a quick question more out of curiosity than anythiong else....why a turbo?
Turbo is free power, and its more economical than a supercharger. Its not always on like a SC. Its more efficient as well. Plus the sky is the limit on size options vs what is offered for the 3800. This is a very brief explanation so take it for what its worth.
I didn't know they were more economical. My only turbo car was a Mitsubishi Ecplise AWD Turbo. I still like my Fiero better but that was a darn fast car!
I do not want to start a flame war here or anywhere else for that matter so I have not posted.
BV.... this may help with a few issues on the car.
first the temp gage we did 2 cars at the same time and they both did this it turns out that Oreillys sent the wrone sender the one you need is a WT3024 the one you have in the car is a WT3025 this will fix that issue.
as far as some of the rest... the speedo we could have made it work if we had been able to finish the car. the turbo return line ..... is only 3' long with 1-1/2' fall to the front side of the oilpan. as far as the bell housing bolt, yes 1 bolt I knew about it and could not fix it and get it done in the time line you wanted the car back in. the oiganal time ine was apx 4 to 6 weeks on the buid for a 3800 SC we talked and decided to go turbo because you wanted more from the car than you would get from this setup. when you first sent me the car it was 2 weeks before Daytona and I told you I would not even be able to look at it until after I got back from the show. once we did I started on the car. 1 mo. from the day you had the car droped off you called and cussed me because your car was not done and the 30 day tag was expired. that was 1-1/2 weeks in to your build. I told you at that point to chill out and let us build it and when it was done I would bring it to you on a trailer. then you started adding things to the car like body mods, suspenssion etc. this all adds to the time line as well as cost.
just to get the record straght. you have paid me this 5000.00 deposit 3000.00 payment 700.00 credit on selling your old engine. 700.00 credit for selling your trans. this totals 9400.00 you have paid me. you got the better part of the deal! yes I do have the wheel lock for your car as well as the sun roof cover and air deflector. they are in a box ready to be sent to you (un damaged!) in the rush to get you the car because you demanded it as well as threatened me with a lawyer if it was not back to you by that weekend it got missed. the issues you are having with the car all all part of the finish process you never let us do. when we got to your place I knew that you were not going to give me the other car as the final payment nor the money you owed me so I got gas money shook your hand and said we are done and this matter was over and you would finish what the car needed yourself. you also threatened to kick me in the nuts several times including at my shop in front of other customers. you good sir are an ass! this is the last I will say abot it.
I do not want to start a flame war here or anywhere else for that matter so I have not posted.
BV.... this may help with a few issues on the car.
first the temp gage we did 2 cars at the same time and they both did this it turns out that Oreillys sent the wrone sender the one you need is a WT3024 the one you have in the car is a WT3025 this will fix that issue.
Thank you.
as far as some of the rest... the speedo we could have made it work if we had been able to finish the car.
You had 6 months to finish the car.
the turbo return line ..... is only 3' long with 1-1/2' fall to the front side of the oilpan.
The oil return is not even remotely installed correctly. I posted pics a page or two back.
as far as the bell housing bolt, yes 1 bolt I knew about it and could not fix it and get it done in the time line you wanted the car back in.
I guess you should have worked Labor Day weekend like you said you were to repair the car instead of waiting a week to sort out the leaky headgasket. Hey, you could of fixed it then!
the oiganal time ine was apx 4 to 6 weeks on the buid for a 3800 SC we talked and decided to go turbo because you wanted more from the car than you would get from this setup. when you first sent me the car it was 2 weeks before Daytona and I told you I would not even be able to look at it until after I got back from the show. That is 100% correct except, it was your idea to go turbo. It was my idea for the F23. You wanted to build the turbo 3800. You offered to build it for the cost originally quoted for the L67 swap. Your own text says as much. You promised all this extra/free work and big power to "show off" what you can do. A person would have been crazy to turn that down.
once we did I started on the car. 1 mo. from the day you had the car droped off you called and cussed me because your car was not done and the 30 day tag was expired. that was 1-1/2 weeks in to your build. I told you at that point to chill out and let us build it and when it was done I would bring it to you on a trailer. then you started adding things to the car like body mods, suspenssion etc. this all adds to the time line as well as cost.
Not quite right. 1 month into the build you still had not touched it (posted like on page 2 maybe?) and I called and said I was going to come get the car. I was upset about (1) You were DRIVING my 14k mile car home at night, (2) you hadnt started on the car in 4+ weeks out of a 6week build (3) you had yet to provide a contract after numerous delays. I told you when I got there I expected my money to be refunded. I hate myself for not doing it BTW. The next day you sent pics of all the body panels off and you dropped the cradle. Do you forget how many times I asked for a total? I always got lame "I'll get it to you by the end of the week" reply.
just to get the record straght. you have paid me this 5000.00 deposit 3000.00 payment 700.00 credit on selling your old engine. 700.00 credit for selling your trans. this totals 9400.00 you have paid me. you got the better part of the deal! Man I wish it was only $9400! According to my Excel file (you haven't been updating yours have you? Shame shame) We are hovering around the 13k mark. I'm not going to break it down for you. You should know this information better than me.
yes I do have the wheel lock for your car as well as the sun roof cover and air deflector. they are in a box ready to be sent to you (un damaged!)
When are you going to ship them? You PROMISED to send them the next day. BTW toss the wheel lock, I had to use a hammered on socket to get the locks off the car. Thanks for that.
in the rush to get you the car because you demanded it as well as threatened me with a lawyer if it was not back to you by that weekend it got missed. the issues you are having with the car all all part of the finish process you never let us do.
Again, you had it for 6 months... your "rush" comments are MOOT!
when we got to your place I knew that you were not going to give me the other car as the final payment nor the money you owed me so I got gas money shook your hand and said we are done and this matter was over and you would finish what the car needed yourself.
The paint and tune? Yes. Fix all your mistakes (and that is being nice), well, I guess I dont have much choice. I expected top quality work, I didn't get it. I am not the bad guy you or your crazy engine builder claims me to be. If I was really bad, as soon as the car came off the trailer I would have told you to get the F off my property and closed the door in your face. When you told me you didnt have but $62 to your name, I gave you $300 so you and your girl could get a decent meal and make it home.
you also threatened to kick me in the nuts several times including at my shop in front of other customers. I even said it here. It was all tongue in cheek. Awww does Dean feel threatened now??
you good sir are an ass!
I love you too.
this is the last I will say abot it.
With all the neg ratings being tossed around in here, I'd be surprised if you didn't pick up a few.
[This message has been edited by BV MotorSports (edited 09-16-2012).]
Turbo is free power, and its more economical than a supercharger. Its not always on like a SC. Its more efficient as well. Plus the sky is the limit on size options vs what is offered for the 3800. This is a very brief explanation so take it for what its worth.
Nothing free about a turbo... its just much easier to move 2x the air with a blower 2x the size.
I replaced the CTS with the WT3024 part Dean mentioned. The gauge is still pegged. The one I removed looked original though and I kinda broke it. lol DH, Justin, what sensor are you guys using?
I replaced the CTS with the WT3024 part Dean mentioned. The gauge is still pegged. The one I removed looked original though and I kinda broke it. lol DH, Justin, what sensor are you guys using?
I have yet to find one that doesnt work... any 3 wire sensor is going to output about the same signal.. almost all GM CTS will output the same ohms.
You can scan the CTS value with a scantool to see if the sensor is your problem or the gauge on the dash. 99/100 times the coolant temp gauge breaks itself due to its weird voltage that it sees. My gauge is currently broken and I think justin has repaired his many times.
While starting the needle pegs, It use to get stuck in the foam surround in the dash. I made a stopper so it wouldn't do that anymore. Seems like I read a thread once that fixed the issue.
